New LMT - FTE problem

D

damienfs

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 28, 2014
7
0
#1
Hello all,

Been lurking on the hide for a while now and just picked up a new LMT MWS 16" CL. Love the fit and finish on it, the look and it feels awesome however I seem to be having a problem with ejection.

Basically the chamber is so tight when I put a round in battery I have to yank the charging handle as hard as I can to get the round out of the chamber. Took it to the range just to check and see if it simply needed some break in and the second round jammed so badly I had to get a cleaning rod to ram the spent casing out of the chamber. T

Took it home cleaned and lubricated it my normal way and just started manually feeding and ejecting rounds trying to loosed it up. Didn't seem to help and it was scratching up my bullets and brass pretty badly. Got one stuck really good and when I yanked on the charging handle to pull i tout it actually pulled the cartridge apart (thankfully I got it vacuumed up before the woman saw gun powered all over her couch:)). Attached is crappy cell phone pic of what it's doing to my bullets.

Anyone have an ideas? I figured I'd ask here since I know there are a ton of other LMT owners before I call them. Really want to love the rifle. scarred bullet.jpg
 
#4
wareagle700 said:
Some of those scratches are from manually extracting the rounds and them dragging across the barrel extension.

Tell us more about the ammo you are shooting.
Click to expand...

Sorry, should have included that.

PPU 145gr FMJ Win 308. Not great ammo but I and some sitting around and figured it was good enough for a function check. I measured the round that came apart and its .306 at it's thickest so think the ammo is in spec. I'm happy to pick something else up to try but I feel like the rifle should be able to cycle pretty much anything even if the accuracy suffers.
 
#5
what ammo? factory or reloads? regardless, put a hornady headspace guage (if you have one) on the factory ammo and ejected brass... I'd be curious what your datum / shoulder measurement is on your non-fired ammo & ejected brass. This would answer a boat load of questions.... and well,,,, also a go / no-go guage.


damienfs said:
Hello all,

Been lurking on the hide for a while now and just picked up a new LMT MWS 16" CL. Love the fit and finish on it, the look and it feels awesome however I seem to be having a problem with ejection.

Basically the chamber is so tight when I put a round in battery I have to yank the charging handle as hard as I can to get the round out of the chamber. Took it to the range just to check and see if it simply needed some break in and the second round jammed so badly I had to get a cleaning rod to ram the spent casing out of the chamber. T

Took it home cleaned and lubricated it my normal way and just started manually feeding and ejecting rounds trying to loosed it up. Didn't seem to help and it was scratching up my bullets and brass pretty badly. Got one stuck really good and when I yanked on the charging handle to pull i tout it actually pulled the cartridge apart (thankfully I got it vacuumed up before the woman saw gun powered all over her couch:)). Attached is crappy cell phone pic of what it's doing to my bullets.

Anyone have an ideas? I figured I'd ask here since I know there are a ton of other LMT owners before I call them. Really want to love the rifle. View attachment 31778
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
#6
At the start mine had some ejection and feed hiccups using CMP sourced Atomic 168 Nosler CC reloads. Everything was just tight and it worked itself out, since running really great.

Whats more concerning about yours is if the bullet damage is from jamming into the lands because of some sort of short chamber situation. Is that damage from hanging up on feed or does it seem that the bullets are jamming into the lands?

You pulled a bullet apart on ejection. I suspect you are jamming and probably shouldn't be with a 145 grain bullet. IIRC correctly another poster had an LMT that was short chambered and he got taken care of nicely again if I remember right his chrome lined barrel became a stainless steel one on correction. Your cloud may have a silver lining if there is a defect.
 
#7
If the bullet is jamming into the lands and it looks like it may be. The first thing I would do is check the cartridge overall length. Should be 2.800. Then get a case length gauge and check the cartridge case in it for proper case dimensions.
 
#8
Thanks for the advise. I don't have a headspace gauge for 30 cal but I'll swing by the fun store and see if I can pick one up and maybe try some other ammo as well. I scrubbed the hell out of the chamber this morning before work and that seems to have maybe helped a little so I'll keep working on that and check the head space and case length and see where I end up.
 
#9
Although it does sound as though it's short-chambered, I also would check the neck diameter of a loaded round. I recently got my AR-10 in .260 Remington and, using Lapua cases, I had significant failure to eject problems. There were no problems using factory Remington loads.

Turns out the factory loads had a neck diameter of .292 while the Lapua was close to .295. Basically, at .297, the neck of the chamber was too tight (it was cut the way I specified, so not the gunsmith's fault) and the neck wasn't contracting normally before the bolt tried to rip the case out. Turning the necks so a loaded round measured .292 solved that problem.

I realize this isn't exactly the OP's problem, since I was able to chamber and manually extract a loaded round. But a tight chamber neck plus factory ammo with thick necks might be causing the problem.

Richard
 
#10
I was having the same issues like yourself with my lmt mws when shooting South African nato ball rounds. I would have one out of 50 rounds. The case would get stuck and I would have to lightly slam the buttstock and then punch out the casing. I went through 600 rounds of ball and would have fte and cause a double feed.

I have since switch to shooting 168gr gold match and after 200 rounds, I haven't had an issue yet.
 
#11
There are a couple of bad batches of that stuff floating around . The cases are sized incorrectly in the shoulder area. We had the same issues with two guns running that ammo. My friend who is a smith / armorer checked the rounds and found them to be out of spec.

damienfs said:
Sorry, should have included that.

PPU 145gr FMJ Win 308. Not great ammo but I and some sitting around and figured it was good enough for a function check. I measured the round that came apart and its .306 at it's thickest so think the ammo is in spec. I'm happy to pick something else up to try but I feel like the rifle should be able to cycle pretty much anything even if the accuracy suffers.
Click to expand...
 
#12
Mine did the same thing with German DAG surplus. I tried a variety of quality ammo and it all worked fine. Bought a box of Monarch and had the same problem as the DAG but worse. I later installed a Magpul UBR with a Slash's buffer and spring. Went to the range with the rest of the DAG and no problems at all. Everything has been feeding/ejecting flawlessly. I'm not advertising for the above companies, but with no other modifications it fixed my problem. You got a great firearm. Best of luck!
 
#13
TL;DR - I think it's the gas ring, can someone post a pic of theirs?

Well I could't find a headspace gauge but I did get some better ammo and using caliper measurements it is a little smaller than the prvi although I think the prvi is in spec.

After some more playing with it, and another thorough cleaning (I swear this rifle has been cleaned more than my AR15 that has a thousand rounds or better down it) I think I have narrowed the problem down and it has nothing to do with the ammo. In fact what look like a failure to eject is really a failure of the lugs to unlock.

I noticed I can get it to lock tight even with no round in the chamber and when I try and pull the bolt back the lugs are binding pretty hard and no amount of lubrication seems to help much so I started scrubbing the lugs with a wire brush and when I was reassembling my BCG it seems like if I press the bolt in hard (like would happen with a bolt release) it seizes in the carrier and won't turn without significant force.

Looking at the gas ring it looks really really loose and actually came off when I was trying to work the bolt around in the carrier to loosen it up so I think that's what may be binding. Can anyone post a picture of their bolt with gas ring so I can see what it should look like?

Thanks
 
#14
Get a JP minimum sami spec headspace gauge. Drop a few rounds in it to see if it sticks.

Here is my bolt face with an extra "replaced" extractor that was cut wrong.

bolt%20002a.jpg



damienfs said:
Hello all,

Been lurking on the hide for a while now and just picked up a new LMT MWS 16" CL. Love the fit and finish on it, the look and it feels awesome however I seem to be having a problem with ejection.

Basically the chamber is so tight when I put a round in battery I have to yank the charging handle as hard as I can to get the round out of the chamber. Took it to the range just to check and see if it simply needed some break in and the second round jammed so badly I had to get a cleaning rod to ram the spent casing out of the chamber. T

Took it home cleaned and lubricated it my normal way and just started manually feeding and ejecting rounds trying to loosed it up. Didn't seem to help and it was scratching up my bullets and brass pretty badly. Got one stuck really good and when I yanked on the charging handle to pull i tout it actually pulled the cartridge apart (thankfully I got it vacuumed up before the woman saw gun powered all over her couch:)). Attached is crappy cell phone pic of what it's doing to my bullets.

Anyone have an ideas? I figured I'd ask here since I know there are a ton of other LMT owners before I call them. Really want to love the rifle. View attachment 31778
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
#16
Have you measured the headspace of cases that have fired in your rifle vs the ammo you are having issues with? I understand you think it may be an issue with the bolt/lugs mating up, but rule this out first as you have control over this. If you do send it into LMT for warranty work the last thing you want is for them to test with other ammo only to find out it works fine.

That being said, it happens and you wouldn't be the first one to have an issue with LMT in this regard. I've had a tight chamber from them that was problematic before and they will take care of you. They wanted me to send mine in, but I never bothered as the conversation came up while ordering a 10.5" barrel for that particular rifle. Never have had an issue with the current barrel. If you think it's a tolerance issue, call them up and they will be more than helpful.
 
#17
ZombieMonkey said:
Have you measured the headspace of cases that have fired in your rifle vs the ammo you are having issues with? I understand you think it may be an issue with the bolt/lugs mating up, but rule this out first as you have control over this. If you do send it into LMT for warranty work the last thing you want is for them to test with other ammo only to find out it works fine.

That being said, it happens and you wouldn't be the first one to have an issue with LMT in this regard. I've had a tight chamber from them that was problematic before and they will take care of you. They wanted me to send mine in, but I never bothered as the conversation came up while ordering a 10.5" barrel for that particular rifle. Never have had an issue with the current barrel. If you think it's a tolerance issue, call them up and they will be more than helpful.
Click to expand...

Ya, I don't have a headspace gauge although I will be needing one anyway however I've tried with 3 different ammos of different makes including some federal and have the exact same issue. Given the ammo I'm using is .308 and the chamber should be the slightly more generous 7.62NATO I've got to believe its not the ammo.

I've left a message for Gene with LMT so I'm sure they will take care of it. Honestly I'd love it to be something I'm doing wrong as it would avoid me having to hassle with shipping.
 
#20
rck said:
Mine was balky when brand new. After a hundred rounds or so it became boringly reliable. Just needed some break in.
Click to expand...

Ya, I haven't heard back from LMT yet so maybe this weekend I'll try a few more rounds and see if it loosens up. It seems a little better since I've been jacking with it.
 
#21
damienfs said:
Ya, I haven't heard back from LMT yet so maybe this weekend I'll try a few more rounds and see if it loosens up. It seems a little better since I've been jacking with it.
Click to expand...

Hate to be a nanny but check the rifle headspace to be on the safe side. You need to have enough rifle left for LMT to fix it.

Im kind of thinking if it was a chamber it would have already blown but....

Mine was balky early on. My problem was slow extraction (tight rifle) and damage to the next round fed from getting hung up on the fired brass and the chamber lugs. I had no issue where a cartridge had the bullet removed during extraction. That is the fact that is concerning.

If its an ammo issue easy fix, change ammo, if its a new rifle break in issue lube and use will cure it, if its a chamber issue LMT will take care of you. See if a gunsmith nearby has Go/No-Go/Field gauges to quickly check your chamber.
 
#22
rg1911 said:
Although it does sound as though it's short-chambered, I also would check the neck diameter of a loaded round. I recently got my AR-10 in .260 Remington and, using Lapua cases, I had significant failure to eject problems. There were no problems using factory Remington loads.

Turns out the factory loads had a neck diameter of .292 while the Lapua was close to .295. Basically, at .297, the neck of the chamber was too tight (it was cut the way I specified, so not the gunsmith's fault) and the neck wasn't contracting normally before the bolt tried to rip the case out. Turning the necks so a loaded round measured .292 solved that problem.

I realize this isn't exactly the OP's problem, since I was able to chamber and manually extract a loaded round. But a tight chamber neck plus factory ammo with thick necks might be causing the problem.

Richard
Click to expand...

One of the reasons I can't use Lapua .260 brass, the necks on them are so much more thicker than all other .260 brass. Damn Remington is not making .260 brass for the foreseeable future...
 
#23
FALex said:
One of the reasons I can't use Lapua .260 brass, the necks on them are so much more thicker than all other .260 brass. Damn Remington is not making .260 brass for the foreseeable future...
Click to expand...

Tell you what, if you buy the Lapua brass and pay shipping both ways, I'll turn the necks so the loaded O.D. is whatever your chamber requires. (In my case, it's .292.) I use K&M tools.

Cheers,
Richard
 
#24
Damienfs,
I got the LMT MWS 16" CL over the summer of 2012 and after getting home to shoot it go horrible accuracy. 2-4 moa at 100yds. I various types of ammo and it all shot that way from Federal Gold Medal, Hornady AMax bullets and even surplus ammo. I called up LMT and talked to Gene from their armory. He had me mail it back to them and had it fixed within days. The barrel was out of spec from the factory. It now shoots 1/2" to 3/4" with 175 gr Gold Medal if I do my job. While they make great rifles every now and then they have a lemon slip through the cracks. I would call LMT immediately and stop shooting it. I'm not sure if the chamber is too short and the round is pressing into the lands or if the chamber is just too tight. Either way LMT has amazing customer service, at least they did when I dealt with them, and they should take care of the problem.

Dustin
 
#26
I fired over 500 rounds through my rifle without any issues. I only shoot factory Federal or Winchester 168 BTHP. I did try some of the Hornady 155 gr TAP bullets which also had no problem. I think it's the ammo.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
#27
Anything new regarding this topic? I recently acquired a LMT and that barrel shoots .308 168gr no problem but MISURP ammo, it does have issues with FTE. I'm thinking the barrel needs to be broken in more since the barrel is brand new. Thoughts?
 
#28
Not sure if anyone has suggested, but even if it's the ammo throwing in a slashes xh buffer wouldn't be a bad idea. Ive got one in my lmt and a noticeable difference in recoil, bought it mostly for shooting suppressed a lot. Maybe the weight could aid in the chambering?

Semper fi
Horner
 
#29
HornDog87 said:
Not sure if anyone has suggested, but even if it's the ammo throwing in a slashes xh buffer wouldn't be a bad idea. Ive got one in my lmt and a noticeable difference in recoil, bought it mostly for shooting suppressed a lot. Maybe the weight could aid in the chambering?

Semper fi
Horner
Click to expand...
Recoil isn't the issue, when I shoot a .308 Win round, the rifle works fine...with the lower pressure of the 7.62 NATO round, it just doesn't eject brass and cycle the next round. Maybe the buffer I have is too heavy?
 
#30
Check if bolt sticks inside carrier. I had similar issues to what you’re describing with a 260 AR10 with proof barrel and JP BCG. JP rep was at a local match and saw that the carrier had a small burr that was causing the issue. They replaced my carrier.
 
#31
Manh3 said:
I was having the same issues like yourself with my lmt mws when shooting South African nato ball rounds. I would have one out of 50 rounds. The case would get stuck and I would have to lightly slam the buttstock and then punch out the casing. I went through 600 rounds of ball and would have fte and cause a double feed.

I have since switch to shooting 168gr gold match and after 200 rounds, I haven't had an issue yet.
Click to expand...
I've had the same issue. I recently acquired a LMT rifle (WHICH I LOVE) and had no issues using .308 ammo, but switched to what I believe is South African NATO rounds, and had FTE. Tried the .308 rounds again, no problem at all. I think that my issue was due to SA ammo to be honest and not being strong enough to cycle the BCG. I know it works in my m1a just fine, and when I had a SCAR17 it worked fine in that as well. I think for my LMT308 I am just going to use .308 ammo. Oh, I was wondering too, I have a 16" barrel on mine with a flash suppressor looks like AAC...not totally sure. Anyway, that things is LOUD AF! Is the .308 round loud as hell in shorter barrelled rifles? I don't remember it being that loud in an m1a.
 
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