New Lot CCI 450 issues

superde

Gunny Sergeant
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Nov 7, 2003
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Anyone had ignition issues with this lot of CCI 450’s? I had 3 rounds not go off during a match a few weeks back. Two of the three rounds went off on the second attempt. They are seated .005” deep in Alpha Brass. Never had an issue with this rifle until this new lot of primers. I’m going to try my spare bolt next time I go out to the range.
 

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Anyone had ignition issues with this lot of CCI 450’s? I had 3 rounds not go off during a match a few weeks back. Two of the three rounds went off on the second attempt. They are seated .005” deep in Alpha Brass. Never had an issue with this rifle until this new lot of primers. I’m going to try my spare bolt next time I go out to the range.
Seems to me, being .005" below flush is a good place to be. Of course, it depends on how deep you pockets are??? How did the primers look in term of how the firing pin struck them?

Yeah, check with that spare bolt is a good idea. It might be a firing pin issue is you're looking at light strikes on the primers???
 
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These were two of the failure to fire rounds, primer strikes look good. I sent the picture to Tate/Impact as well and he agreed.
 

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How many rounds on this action? Does your action use a trigger hanger? Are you sure the primers are seated deep enough?
When's the last time you did a full tear down and cleaning of the bolt? Or last time you changed the spring?

Only time I have ever had these issues is one of the above or the cocking piece dragging on the sear.
 
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These were two of the failure to fire rounds, primer strikes look good. I sent the picture to Tate/Impact as well and he agreed.
It's really hard to tell in those pictures as they kinda look a little light, but not enough where I wouldn't think it'd keep them from igniting.

The other place I'd take a close look at is the case headspace; a short case headspace can cause this issue too???
 
Thanks gentlemen. I had 400 rounds fire without issue with the last of my old lot of 450’s with this barrel. There are probably over 30k rounds on this action and a lot of dryfires. Trying the extra bolt I carry in my pack should show if it is a firing pin spring/firing pin issue (bolt has probably 100 rounds on it).
 
I’d either way pop the primers out

And see if you can hit them with a nail/ hammer

Just to see if they’ll even go off!

I do this with junk ammo like wolf and Tula as they def have soooooo many mis fires

And playing cartridge surgeon is always fun
 
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View attachment 8649483BR 4's this weekend. They didn't fire either.
Are these virgin brass?

I suspect the case's headspace are too short. Such a thing makes it where the case is pushed forward enough where the firing pin won't deliver enough force to the anvil inside the primer to cause it to ignite. The primer surface still gets indented, but it's being cushioned by the case moving forward by quite a bit. It's similar to a primer seated too far from the bottom of the pocket.
 
Yes, they were 1st timers , shot 246 others with no problems ?
Since virgin brass is really not all that uniform in their dimensions (why typically fire forming is done before load development), that pretty much explains the problem for me. That being . . . those particular cases of your lot were too short. :rolleyes:

If they haven't been fired yet, you can measure them (their headspace) and see how they compare to those that have been fired. And to get them fired, you might need to simply use a more sensitive primer. . . like the CCI-400's well seated to the bottom of the pockets??? :giggle:
 
.005" deep seems right for Alpha Brass and 450s, thats where mine sit. Trying to eliminate any potential mechanical problem within the firing system, when's the last time you changed the firing pin spring?
I have never changed a FP Spring, lol. Now that I’ve done some reading, it appears some people change them annually.
 
@jthor and @LR1845 What actions are you both running, and what springs are you using? I just looked at Impact and they are out of FP springs.
I am running 2 CDG actions right now but going back to lone peak as soon as my barrel comes in, I order 2-3 springs at a time from the action maker, when I get down to the last one I order 3 more. I bet if you call Impact they will send you a spring free of charge. And FYI I do this same thing with a rim fires.
 
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Capture as much of the spring dimension detail as you can from your fresh one, as well as your used one.

It isn't too difficult to gin up a way to grab a force at a deflection, and that might come in handy some day.

I still keep spares and usually change them with a barrel if the gun gets shot regularly or every time I catch myself wondering... Sometimes when I am lazy I will just change it, or if I take the time to check and its still in spec I will keep running it. It is often easier to just change it.

ETA: It isn't too difficult to learn to store The Safe Queens with the bolt de-cocked to reduce the long term storage stress on the spring. I have some rigs that don't come out often and there is no point to storing them cocked.
 
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In general de-cocking is the generic advice to avoid creep (loss of preload and stiffness over time).

Different designs create different perspectives, but the way we teach the spring concept is to view the operating stress level in the spring against the ultimate and yield stress of the material. Depending on what percentage of the yield stress we run, determines the life of the spring.

Unfortunately most firing pin spring designs do run at the levels where they have a short and limited life. Long and short term creep is a longer discussion, but in general if you expect a bolt gun to sit idle for a time (more than a few weeks), it is best to store it de-cocked.

When the steel they used was more controlled, we could tell the armorers a more reliable cycle count for the rigs the GOV kept in the inventory. But as time passed with more models being introduced and the QC of their springs running too loose, there have been unfortunate failures.

Not all spring steels are equal, and as our luck would have it the better steels are more expensive.

Some outfits keep careful track of all their parts, and others don't. Springs might be well tracked in some examples, or someone may be dumping them all in a giant tub where they become a mix of very old and very new. In that instance, when a bad batch of springs gets mixed in, you end up with a real problem trying to sort the difference of ammo issues from ignition issues and failure investigations get ugly.

The main advice I try to impress on young operators, is to get to know their design and the maintenance and keep a diary with the gun. By knowing your hardware and keeping spares, you can keep out of trouble or at least minimize the confusion during a troubleshooting session.
 
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