Took my new Springfield Scout to the range today for its first firing. Have the gun in a JAE stock with a Sadlak Airborne scope mount. Problem I am having is the cases are stove piping like a 45 auto 1911, but the case stove pipes to the side. Tried 3 different mags and it consistently happen 3-4 times per mag. Tried FGMM 168's and 147 Ball, no difference. Brass marks on the top of the scope mount at the very front and on the receiver at about 1 O clock. When it happens a round chambers in the barrel, a empty case is stove piped, and if you actuate the charge handle you now pick up another round making for a stoppage that requires you dropping the mag to clear. This is not my first gun of this type, but the first time I have run a optic on a m14 type gun. Any ideas would be appericated.
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New M1A troubles
- Thread starter Proarc
- Start date
Re: New M1A troubles
i would ........see if the stick demonstratesthis same problem in the original stock////////sometimes its the small stuff that goofs on you...like springs
i would ........see if the stick demonstratesthis same problem in the original stock////////sometimes its the small stuff that goofs on you...like springs
Re: New M1A troubles
Sounds like an ejector/extractor issue, or possibly a gas leak. It would probably help to replace the ejector spring and ejector as well as the extractor with USGI parts. This is somewhat of a common problem with SA bolt guts.
Also, make sure that the gas plug is on tight and the gas piston is clean to make sure that the bolt is getting enough rearward force.
Sounds like an ejector/extractor issue, or possibly a gas leak. It would probably help to replace the ejector spring and ejector as well as the extractor with USGI parts. This is somewhat of a common problem with SA bolt guts.
Also, make sure that the gas plug is on tight and the gas piston is clean to make sure that the bolt is getting enough rearward force.
Re: New M1A troubles
Sounds like it may be a Extractor/Ejector problem. Newer M1As have commercial parts and these parts seem to be giving a lot of M1A owners this type of problem. Springfield Armory seems to have great customer service so you could send it back to them and let them handle it or do what a lot of M1A owners do and get USGI Extractor,Extractor spring and plunger,Ejector spring and plunger, and firing pin. Most owners find that changing out these parts to USGI parts solves most of these type problems.
Sounds like it may be a Extractor/Ejector problem. Newer M1As have commercial parts and these parts seem to be giving a lot of M1A owners this type of problem. Springfield Armory seems to have great customer service so you could send it back to them and let them handle it or do what a lot of M1A owners do and get USGI Extractor,Extractor spring and plunger,Ejector spring and plunger, and firing pin. Most owners find that changing out these parts to USGI parts solves most of these type problems.
Re: New M1A troubles
Did not shoot the gun with out the mount on and now that all is tight and loctite is set I hate to pull it off. Guess I will replace ejector spring and other parts as recommend. Any suggestion on sources for parts? Would like to support a Hides sponsor. I have this gun and a Socom but have not had to replace any parts yet.
Did not shoot the gun with out the mount on and now that all is tight and loctite is set I hate to pull it off. Guess I will replace ejector spring and other parts as recommend. Any suggestion on sources for parts? Would like to support a Hides sponsor. I have this gun and a Socom but have not had to replace any parts yet.
Re: New M1A troubles
The M-14 The Firing Line is a good source of vendors for the above:
http://m14tfl.com/upload/index.php
The M-14 The Firing Line is a good source of vendors for the above:
http://m14tfl.com/upload/index.php
Re: New M1A troubles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bricktop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, make sure that the gas plug is on tight</div></div><span style="font-weight: bold">+1</span>
The same has happened to me more than once...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bricktop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, make sure that the gas plug is on tight</div></div><span style="font-weight: bold">+1</span>
The same has happened to me more than once...
Re: New M1A troubles
Just removed gas plug, it was on very tight. piston slides freely back and forth in the tube.
Thanks for all the help so far. As you can tell I have little experience with this weapon system. Hell I have never even cleaned the piston in my socom and that gun goes bang every time.
Just removed gas plug, it was on very tight. piston slides freely back and forth in the tube.
Thanks for all the help so far. As you can tell I have little experience with this weapon system. Hell I have never even cleaned the piston in my socom and that gun goes bang every time.
Re: New M1A troubles
Check out RA parts for USGI M14 Parts
http://www.raparts.com/Products/m14parts.html
Check out RA parts for USGI M14 Parts
http://www.raparts.com/Products/m14parts.html
Re: New M1A troubles
Ejector spring is too strong. Trim a coil and try it. Repeat till the problem completely goes away.
A strong ejector spring (like the Wolf springs SA Inc. uses) send the brass nearly straight up. By trimming the spring you'll tune it so the extractor holds the brass and the ejector just flings it out.
Easy fix.
Ejector spring is too strong. Trim a coil and try it. Repeat till the problem completely goes away.
A strong ejector spring (like the Wolf springs SA Inc. uses) send the brass nearly straight up. By trimming the spring you'll tune it so the extractor holds the brass and the ejector just flings it out.
Easy fix.
Re: New M1A troubles
I would first replace your extractor,ejector and ejector spring with genuine USGI parts and I will bet your problem disapears.
I am running an arms 18 and it is definately the lowest mount with the worst clearance for ejection and it runs great.I would not take off your mount until you try the above parts.
++1 for Ra parts ( that is where I got mine and it made a huge difference.)
I would first replace your extractor,ejector and ejector spring with genuine USGI parts and I will bet your problem disapears.
I am running an arms 18 and it is definately the lowest mount with the worst clearance for ejection and it runs great.I would not take off your mount until you try the above parts.
++1 for Ra parts ( that is where I got mine and it made a huge difference.)
Re: New M1A troubles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ejector spring is too strong. Trim a coil and try it. Repeat till the problem completely goes away.
A strong ejector spring (like the Wolf springs SA Inc. uses) send the brass nearly straight up. By trimming the spring you'll tune it so the extractor holds the brass and the ejector just flings it out.
Easy fix. </div></div>
Since ya ordered the "spares" trimming the ejector spring is now required 8>)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ejector spring is too strong. Trim a coil and try it. Repeat till the problem completely goes away.
A strong ejector spring (like the Wolf springs SA Inc. uses) send the brass nearly straight up. By trimming the spring you'll tune it so the extractor holds the brass and the ejector just flings it out.
Easy fix. </div></div>
Since ya ordered the "spares" trimming the ejector spring is now required 8>)
Re: New M1A troubles
There is some secret-squirrel method to alter the bevels on the ejector plunger, possibly combined with a very small relief cut on the extractor, that's supposed to make the M14 system eject more "horizontally" just over the op rod, rather than up and out.
Empties still get a final bounce away from the rifle from the op rod hump.
Unfortunately, I do not know how to do it. It's old school but was never reported to me as requiring easing up on the ejector spring.
That problem is why the better scope mounts, IME, have a bit of a slope on the underside. I'm using two variations of the SAI "3rd Generation" mount that don't have that slope, and my incidence of cases bouncing back into the feed path are something like 1 in 500. I might have put a stone to the ejector some time in the past...
Now you have a spare on the way, you can experiment. I have some vague recollection that the "peak" or highest contact area is moved "upward" or towards the center of the boltface.
Sorry I'm not more help, but I strongly suggest you contact some people who know more about this simple, one-component fix.
There is some secret-squirrel method to alter the bevels on the ejector plunger, possibly combined with a very small relief cut on the extractor, that's supposed to make the M14 system eject more "horizontally" just over the op rod, rather than up and out.
Empties still get a final bounce away from the rifle from the op rod hump.
Unfortunately, I do not know how to do it. It's old school but was never reported to me as requiring easing up on the ejector spring.
That problem is why the better scope mounts, IME, have a bit of a slope on the underside. I'm using two variations of the SAI "3rd Generation" mount that don't have that slope, and my incidence of cases bouncing back into the feed path are something like 1 in 500. I might have put a stone to the ejector some time in the past...
Now you have a spare on the way, you can experiment. I have some vague recollection that the "peak" or highest contact area is moved "upward" or towards the center of the boltface.
Sorry I'm not more help, but I strongly suggest you contact some people who know more about this simple, one-component fix.
Re: New M1A troubles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ejector spring is too strong. Trim a coil and try it. Repeat till the problem completely goes away.
A strong ejector spring (like the Wolf springs SA Inc. uses) send the brass nearly straight up. By trimming the spring you'll tune it so the extractor holds the brass and the ejector just flings it out.
Easy fix. </div></div>
+1
You do not need to spend any money on a new ejector, extractor or spring. Just trim it little by little.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ejector spring is too strong. Trim a coil and try it. Repeat till the problem completely goes away.
A strong ejector spring (like the Wolf springs SA Inc. uses) send the brass nearly straight up. By trimming the spring you'll tune it so the extractor holds the brass and the ejector just flings it out.
Easy fix. </div></div>
+1
You do not need to spend any money on a new ejector, extractor or spring. Just trim it little by little.
Re: New M1A troubles
Cut half a coil off ejector spring--no better
Cut a full coil off ejector spring--no better
Got a used m14 complete bolt from a bud, can I install the complete bolt or should I swap over all springs and ejector and extractor?
Or how much can I trim off ejector spring before exceeding point of no return?
So far one complete coil has made no difference.
Have tried 3 different mags and 3 different ammo types. Stove piping 1 out of 5 rounds.
Positive note I can disassemble a bolt with no tools no problem.
Cut half a coil off ejector spring--no better
Cut a full coil off ejector spring--no better
Got a used m14 complete bolt from a bud, can I install the complete bolt or should I swap over all springs and ejector and extractor?
Or how much can I trim off ejector spring before exceeding point of no return?
So far one complete coil has made no difference.
Have tried 3 different mags and 3 different ammo types. Stove piping 1 out of 5 rounds.
Positive note I can disassemble a bolt with no tools no problem.
Re: New M1A troubles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cut half a coil off ejector spring--no better
Cut a full coil off ejector spring--no better
Got a used m14 complete bolt from a bud, can I install the complete bolt or should I swap over all springs and ejector and extractor?
Or how much can I trim off ejector spring before exceeding point of no return?
So far one complete coil has made no difference.
Have tried 3 different mags and 3 different ammo types. Stove piping 1 out of 5 rounds.
Positive note I can disassemble a bolt with no tools no problem. </div></div>
You can not interchange bolts.
It can take anywhere from 1/2 to 2 coils or maybe even more depending on the rifle. Has it gotten any better?
You now have a spare ejector spring that you can try.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cut half a coil off ejector spring--no better
Cut a full coil off ejector spring--no better
Got a used m14 complete bolt from a bud, can I install the complete bolt or should I swap over all springs and ejector and extractor?
Or how much can I trim off ejector spring before exceeding point of no return?
So far one complete coil has made no difference.
Have tried 3 different mags and 3 different ammo types. Stove piping 1 out of 5 rounds.
Positive note I can disassemble a bolt with no tools no problem. </div></div>
You can not interchange bolts.
It can take anywhere from 1/2 to 2 coils or maybe even more depending on the rifle. Has it gotten any better?
You now have a spare ejector spring that you can try.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: New M1A troubles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cut half a coil off ejector spring--no better
Cut a full coil off ejector spring--no better
Got a used m14 complete bolt from a bud, can I install the complete bolt or should I swap over all springs and ejector and extractor?
Or how much can I trim off ejector spring before exceeding point of no return?
So far one complete coil has made no difference.
Have tried 3 different mags and 3 different ammo types. Stove piping 1 out of 5 rounds.
Positive note I can disassemble a bolt with no tools no problem. </div></div>
Why not approach the problem in order from start to finish.
(1) remove the scope mount
(2) Does it now feed, shoot an eject properly? If yes, shit can the mount. If not, correct the problem, until it's working correctly w/o the mount. Where does it pile the brass?
Yes you can change bolts, as long you check the head space first, then if it's gtg shoot it. Before checking the head space you have to know if it's chambered for .308 win or 7.62 X 51 Nato, as they are different.
If your unsure or unable to check the head space yourself take it to someone that knows what their doing.
From just your info to date, my money says it's the mount.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cut half a coil off ejector spring--no better
Cut a full coil off ejector spring--no better
Got a used m14 complete bolt from a bud, can I install the complete bolt or should I swap over all springs and ejector and extractor?
Or how much can I trim off ejector spring before exceeding point of no return?
So far one complete coil has made no difference.
Have tried 3 different mags and 3 different ammo types. Stove piping 1 out of 5 rounds.
Positive note I can disassemble a bolt with no tools no problem. </div></div>
Why not approach the problem in order from start to finish.
(1) remove the scope mount
(2) Does it now feed, shoot an eject properly? If yes, shit can the mount. If not, correct the problem, until it's working correctly w/o the mount. Where does it pile the brass?
Yes you can change bolts, as long you check the head space first, then if it's gtg shoot it. Before checking the head space you have to know if it's chambered for .308 win or 7.62 X 51 Nato, as they are different.
If your unsure or unable to check the head space yourself take it to someone that knows what their doing.
From just your info to date, my money says it's the mount.
Re: New M1A troubles
If I remember correctly the M1 ejector has two facets and the M14 has three. If you can swap an ejector that might help. Let us know if this helps.........
If I remember correctly the M1 ejector has two facets and the M14 has three. If you can swap an ejector that might help. Let us know if this helps.........
Re: New M1A troubles
I would ditto trying it without the scope mount. I have a Sadlak mount but the model I have is beveled on the bottom to eliminate ejection issues and I haven't had a single issue after several hundred rounds. I have a SA NM mounted in a JAE. I wouldn't change or modify parts without determining if its the mount first.
I would ditto trying it without the scope mount. I have a Sadlak mount but the model I have is beveled on the bottom to eliminate ejection issues and I haven't had a single issue after several hundred rounds. I have a SA NM mounted in a JAE. I wouldn't change or modify parts without determining if its the mount first.
Re: New M1A troubles
Absolutely try it without the scope mount. I run the Sadlak titanium scope mounts on both my M1As and have no such problems with Federal GMM 168 grain ammo. Like BattleAxe has said, these mounts have been beveled on the underside purposely.
Absolutely try it without the scope mount. I run the Sadlak titanium scope mounts on both my M1As and have no such problems with Federal GMM 168 grain ammo. Like BattleAxe has said, these mounts have been beveled on the underside purposely.
Re: New M1A troubles
And to be clear...I don't want to discount the others. A parts/mod approach may work and one of these may make the problem go away. Problem is that when you modify things to eliminate a problem on a rig that's already modified, the fact that it goes away may not be related to the modification...something may have worn or bent itself into position at a coincidental moment and you'd be none the wiser, which would put you right back where you started if you needed to return it to stock configuration.
Eliminating the mount provides a valuable piece of information and keeps you from chasing your tail.
Same could be said of magazines. I have one newer/modern stick with mags from <span style="text-decoration: underline">2 different sources</span> (6 total) and 5 of them needed the feed lips bent to cure feed issues.
And to be clear...I don't want to discount the others. A parts/mod approach may work and one of these may make the problem go away. Problem is that when you modify things to eliminate a problem on a rig that's already modified, the fact that it goes away may not be related to the modification...something may have worn or bent itself into position at a coincidental moment and you'd be none the wiser, which would put you right back where you started if you needed to return it to stock configuration.
Eliminating the mount provides a valuable piece of information and keeps you from chasing your tail.
Same could be said of magazines. I have one newer/modern stick with mags from <span style="text-decoration: underline">2 different sources</span> (6 total) and 5 of them needed the feed lips bent to cure feed issues.
Re: New M1A troubles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nomad 1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You know Springfield has great customer service and they fix your problem for nothing.....
Remove the trigger group now the rifle becomes parts no problem
sending it to Springfield.
Luck on your choices..... </div></div>
I think I read that his gun was new/unfired, so sending it to Springfield would require returning it to factory trim (assuming) since its under warranty...Correct?
If so he can return it to factory trim first and try it, which will eliminate 2 possibilities...the mount and stock (stock unlikely). If its either of those two, sending it in could be a waste of effort.
I personally wouldn't try to send a modified weapon in for warranty work.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nomad 1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You know Springfield has great customer service and they fix your problem for nothing.....
Remove the trigger group now the rifle becomes parts no problem
sending it to Springfield.
Luck on your choices..... </div></div>
I think I read that his gun was new/unfired, so sending it to Springfield would require returning it to factory trim (assuming) since its under warranty...Correct?
If so he can return it to factory trim first and try it, which will eliminate 2 possibilities...the mount and stock (stock unlikely). If its either of those two, sending it in could be a waste of effort.
I personally wouldn't try to send a modified weapon in for warranty work.
Re: New M1A troubles
Got USGI parts installed in my original bolt, will test fire tomorrow and see what happens. If it still jams I will pull the scope mount. I know many suggested that earlier on but with out the scope I have no sights as the front site was removed for my gem-tech suppressor mount. Blasting bullets into the back stop seems like a waste. But I see the point and knew it earlier, just some times we dont follow the logical path. Again thanks to all for the help. to much money in this gun for it not to run better.
Got USGI parts installed in my original bolt, will test fire tomorrow and see what happens. If it still jams I will pull the scope mount. I know many suggested that earlier on but with out the scope I have no sights as the front site was removed for my gem-tech suppressor mount. Blasting bullets into the back stop seems like a waste. But I see the point and knew it earlier, just some times we dont follow the logical path. Again thanks to all for the help. to much money in this gun for it not to run better.
Re: New M1A troubles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Blasting bullets into the back stop seems like a waste. But I see the point and knew it earlier, </div></div>
You'd be surprised...you could sight along the bore line quite well at 100 yards. Practice it a few times and you'll see what I mean...I could easily hit a man-sized target at 100 yards with any of my rifles with no sights installed. Hell...a top rail makes a decent sight if you dial in a sight picture. Get yourself a sight picture that nets about one inch low at 25 yards and you'll be on paper at 100.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Blasting bullets into the back stop seems like a waste. But I see the point and knew it earlier, </div></div>
You'd be surprised...you could sight along the bore line quite well at 100 yards. Practice it a few times and you'll see what I mean...I could easily hit a man-sized target at 100 yards with any of my rifles with no sights installed. Hell...a top rail makes a decent sight if you dial in a sight picture. Get yourself a sight picture that nets about one inch low at 25 yards and you'll be on paper at 100.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: New M1A troubles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Blasting bullets into the back stop seems like a waste. </div></div>
If that's a waste, don't do it. Just keep the shotgun repair approach rolling along.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Blasting bullets into the back stop seems like a waste. </div></div>
If that's a waste, don't do it. Just keep the shotgun repair approach rolling along.
Re: New M1A troubles
Shot the gun today with the usgi parts in the original bolt. Gun did a lot better jamming only 1-2 times per mag. Took the scope mount off and problem went away. Cases flew out of the gun like they should.
Now do I put the mount back on and start cutting down the usgi ejector spring to "tune" it? Any other ideas?
Built this gun for a long range piece, so without a reliable scope mount its not a keeper. Did not consider this would ever be as big of an issue, maybe this will help someone else out.
Shot the gun today with the usgi parts in the original bolt. Gun did a lot better jamming only 1-2 times per mag. Took the scope mount off and problem went away. Cases flew out of the gun like they should.
Now do I put the mount back on and start cutting down the usgi ejector spring to "tune" it? Any other ideas?
Built this gun for a long range piece, so without a reliable scope mount its not a keeper. Did not consider this would ever be as big of an issue, maybe this will help someone else out.
Re: New M1A troubles
I had this happen to me with my old scope mount... Never with my sdlak. The ejector was smacking the brass up into the flat area of the scope mount, back into the Action. As the action cycled the case got jammed (stovepipes) every once in awhile. The short fix was I took off the mount and dremeled the edge of the mount 45 degrees to help deflect. Long fix is I found a properly fitting mount.
I had this happen to me with my old scope mount... Never with my sdlak. The ejector was smacking the brass up into the flat area of the scope mount, back into the Action. As the action cycled the case got jammed (stovepipes) every once in awhile. The short fix was I took off the mount and dremeled the edge of the mount 45 degrees to help deflect. Long fix is I found a properly fitting mount.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: New M1A troubles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now do I put the mount back on and start cutting down the usgi ejector spring to "tune" it? Any other ideas?
Built this gun for a long range piece, so without a reliable scope mount its not a keeper. </div></div>
I'd find a different mount or modify that one. 14's an clones need room to eject. You are not the first one to experience that nor will you be the last. If you Tune it, whats to say you won't have to re-tune the rest of your/it's life.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now do I put the mount back on and start cutting down the usgi ejector spring to "tune" it? Any other ideas?
Built this gun for a long range piece, so without a reliable scope mount its not a keeper. </div></div>
I'd find a different mount or modify that one. 14's an clones need room to eject. You are not the first one to experience that nor will you be the last. If you Tune it, whats to say you won't have to re-tune the rest of your/it's life.
Re: New M1A troubles
While you had the mount off, you should have been able to see where the brass was hitting the mount. I had a problem like this on an old school build I did with an ARMS 18. Seems the brass was hitting the nuts on the scope rings. I reversed them with the nuts on the left side and problem went away.
While you had the mount off, you should have been able to see where the brass was hitting the mount. I had a problem like this on an old school build I did with an ARMS 18. Seems the brass was hitting the nuts on the scope rings. I reversed them with the nuts on the left side and problem went away.
Re: New M1A troubles
Trimming the ejector spring is a minor thing to do for reliable ejection. I've heard of guys taking off 3 or 4 coils to get their rifle's to eject right. Since the problem has been reduced by changing the ejector spring I'd say you're on the right track...
And OF COURSE ejection won't be a problem without the mount, the mount is where it started... The Sadlak Airborne model has the beveled underside like all of their mounts so that should be fine.
I'd say trim and try again, note how many coils you trim for future reference.
Could be you're SA Inc. bolt's ejector hole for the spring isn't drilled to the right depth so trimming the spring may be something you'll have to deal with till you can change out the bolt with your USGI unit (like when you replace the barrel). Even then your brass may hit the mount but hopefully not jam.
Don't stress, it's a simple fix and you're not the only one who's had to do it.
Trimming the ejector spring is a minor thing to do for reliable ejection. I've heard of guys taking off 3 or 4 coils to get their rifle's to eject right. Since the problem has been reduced by changing the ejector spring I'd say you're on the right track...
And OF COURSE ejection won't be a problem without the mount, the mount is where it started... The Sadlak Airborne model has the beveled underside like all of their mounts so that should be fine.
I'd say trim and try again, note how many coils you trim for future reference.
Could be you're SA Inc. bolt's ejector hole for the spring isn't drilled to the right depth so trimming the spring may be something you'll have to deal with till you can change out the bolt with your USGI unit (like when you replace the barrel). Even then your brass may hit the mount but hopefully not jam.
Don't stress, it's a simple fix and you're not the only one who's had to do it.
