Rifle Scopes New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

[SheepsClothes]

First thing I would like to say is thanks for all the information so far. I've been reading info from this website for a couple years now, and have learned quite a lot. I hope I can help the community someday and give back.

Several years ago I became interested in long range shooting, and started saving my pennies for a precision rifle. I then started to read up on scopes, and how much of a role they play in long range shooting. I've decided that I would rather spend my whole wad on a scope now, and start shooting and move up from my DPMS AR10 as I need to.


I have done as much homework as I think is possible and recently set out looking to touch as much of these scopes as possible. Until recently the only optics I have ever used have been an ACOG set up or hunting scopes in the $500 max price range. Since then I have been able to look through zeis, nightforce and several others. The only one that even sparked interest in me was the Nightforce. The one I touched didn't have a FFP on it, and though the image was bright and clear it had some issues in trying to adjust it that made me hesitant.

After a long time searching I have narrowed it down to USO and Premier as being the options for me. Right now this scope will be mounted on my AR10, then when I start shooting as good as that rifle will allow me, I will move into a new platform. I realize that some people may think it's silly to have such a nice piece of glass on such a blunt platform, but I don't want to spend my life wishing I had purchased more scope.

My goals are to eventually shoot out into the 1000+ yard mark. In MN where I live it's hard to find that much open land, and even more tough to shoot. It's what I want, and dream about though and patience and time is on my side. To participate in a matches down the road is of less interest, I really just enjoy shooting and constantly working to make myself a better marksman and that is enough for me right now.

I value every one who takes some time to throw in their .02 on this thread. I'm most interested in durability, features that work and ones that don't work, and how people perceived the view through the glass.

I have specific questions on feelings about the USO options. Has anyone tried the 3.8-22x and does it give anything up from the 3.2-17x? Other than cost it looks to be a nice option of the extra power. Also I am not really sure what the TPAL option gives to the operator vs AO? Is there increased focus or reduction in parallax? Finally the 44mm looks to be the most popular choice, however wouldn't the larger objective provide more clarity and light gathering? The baskin robins list of options is a bit overwhelming.

As for the PR, the 3-15 is the scope that interest me and as I have read it's optical features are second to none. I was hoping someone could chime in about the scope with their feelings on it, especially if they can compare and contrast to the USO scopes. Everything I read on this scope gushes praise other than small issues with the odd zero stop, and the illumination. It looks robust with nice big knobs which are a huge plus for me with my thicker fingers. Perhaps I'm only looking for problems in something that doesn't have enough to make serious note of.

I encourage any info people want to give. Emotional reasons, or other wise. I can sort out whats important for me, but not being able to hold both side by side is a downside and I want lots of information. Empirical data is always awesome, but measured data does not always show up true in the operators hands. I'm that either brand will deliver, but what I want is something that fits me, and I can grow into as I grow as a shooter.

Again I want to thank everyone for taking time to entertain my questions and the snipers hide for being here to get so much information from.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Please let me know if I left out some information that is needed. As for budget, let's say I don't have one right now and that my budget is exactly what I need to pay to get what I want....... oh yeah, make sure it's under $4000.

Thanks again.

 

[T2CH]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

You left out a very nice optic in that price range, S&B. I have no experience with the other two but do have a couple NF and S&B's. The PR and the USO are probably between NF and S&B in comparison.

More info can be found here about the EREK knob
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1802587

 

[bward]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

No budget = Hensoldt or S&B. In my opinion they are both superior to USO and Premier.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Shucks I knew I forgot to mention some things.

I was not, and have not been impressed with the extreme limited time with an s&b scope. It was nice to look through, but I don't see the juice being worth the squeeze. Maybe on a PMII its much better, and I'm hunting for one. I ruled them out however as I really have found that when I looked through my friends vortex, a nice leupold, a Nikon, a nightforce, and the s&b I had access to they all were extremely simmilar in image quality.

I know I'm going to get flamed for that but its what I saw. In fact the NF scope was the brightest of all, almost to the point of annoying. I just couldn't get it to focus to my eyes, and I noticed lots off issues near the edge of the image. To me a larger FOV stronger build, customer service that's local all outweigh what the German glass will give me. Optically they are within a really close margin.

Perhaps I'm misguided, that's why I came here to ask. What about the s &b scopes are better? Is the clarity in the PMII just that much better it makes up for lower FOV and lower magnification? Lots of people have been saying the PR May have even better glass than the Germans, so if they are on even playing fields why spend more for the s&b?

I really appreciate the comments. I'm trying to find the top PMII option locally but its hard to find.

 

[T2CH]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

First off, glass is subjective to the person looking through it. Comparing scopes of different magnification from different brands is like comparing apples to oranges. With more magnification, a scope will not seem as "bright" or "clear" as the same brand with less magnification. Example: My 2.5-10x32 NF is clearer than my 5.5-22x56 NF (to me). But my S&B 4-16x42 is well above both on the same magnifiction setting (again, to me).

I have a 20-some year old Burris on the same age Browning BAR that has served very well. It holds POI and has been sent back once. But I don't use it for long range shooting. I don't adjust it everytime I shoot the gun. I also had a Leupold when I started shooting atlonger ranges and thought the scope would handle the tracking I asked for. After using on two different rifles and two range sessions it gave up tracking and holding POI, back to Leupold twice. Sold it, tried another and had the same results. Now I have NF and S&B.

The point is the lower tier optics will serve well but if you demand constant tracking and clarity to see the target at longer ranges, that work everytime, you will have to pay for it.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

I would also consider one of the Bushnell HDMR's....
big power range,FFP, and there's a group buy going I am pretty sure (if you like the G2 reticle.......)
I am running an H58 version and am very happy with it.

USO's are fantastic,
I preferred the TPAL to ERGO only because I have stubby arms and had to break my shooting position to adjust the ERGO...not so with the TPAL.
If you want your scope built your way, they are the way to go.

 

[steve123]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

I'm not much of a big game hunter but I do appreciate the lightweight and compactness of a Nightforce F1. It's my favorite do all scope. There is nothing to dislike about it. Good glass,illumination,side focus parallax,30 mils of elevation,High speed knobs,dead nuts tracking,zero stop and a rep for reliability.

The March 3-24 FFP is also worth considering for a lightweight high quality scope. Better glass but more expensive if you want illume. Supposed to have a tighter eyebox than most high end scopes.

I've seen more problems at the practical precision matches with the other brand scopes mentioned than I would like to but to be fair anything man made is not perfect. I never seem to hear anything about the Vortex Razors going down. Just saying.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Do you have reason to think the s & b will hold its reacting better than USO or PR?
I'm being serious not calling you out. I did like the sturdy build from NF but it gave up contrast for what my eyes picked up as brightness. A bit like when you turn up the contrast on a tv set and everything is exagerated and not pleasing to me. It also felt extremely narrow.

On every scope I judged the image from 5-6 magnification. It was a common level that all scopes could reach.

Measured contrast and light output isn't subjective, but your right when the sum of the parts are combined and a human is behind the ocular the perceived results will vary. Pupil dilalation, and all kinds of in vitro eye differences, comfortable distance to eye reproduce etc.

So to be succinct, do you feel the S&B gives you something more than the uso or pr? If so what is it. If its just a fealing that's completely fine, I just want to know what you feal is the difference.

Here is an example for me. GLock. I hate Glocks. Why, it was the gang banger special in my neighborhoods. I know they are fine weapons but I just don't like that particular brand of vodka. I do like the 1911 however and guns that give me a similar feeling instantly make more comfortable with them.

Opinion is totally fine to me, I just want to know why. I really appreciate the response.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

I have never considered the Bushnell offerings. I'll try to find some. I couldn't find that scope by name on their website.

vortex is a cool scope company IMHO. a friend has on on his dome super sass. my major objection was that it didn't feel as beastly as the NF, and it was definately not as bright and to me the image looked lost and flat unless I had my eyelashes right up to it. Even looking down the NF felt like the image popped out and gave a sense of depth. I would already have a NF if the image didn't warp so much to me. It's a really well built tool imho it just was less than comfortable behind the lower and higher power versions. I'm sure you could club seals with that NF scopes so maybe its not fair to compare them.

 

[jbailey]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

OK, this is a huge question, so I'm going to try to focus you down a bit-

Reticles. Do you like the Premier's reticles? They only have a few (three maybe?), so if you don't like the reticles they have, you can move on to another manufacturer. One good thing about USO (among many) is that they have MANY MANY reticles, more than they have on their website.

Given your fairly open-ended intended use, it many be difficult to narrow down what is important in a reticle to you, but maybe you have something in mind and that can help you.

Good luck! I honestly think that either Premier or USO will be outstanding choice. Both are top quality optics that will serve you for many years.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

James, thanks!

That's a great question. I was wordy on my first post and perhaps didn't clearly state what I was hoping to get information on. I most certainty didn't intend to make a wave and cause any discord.

From my narrow understanding of reticles, I like both options from premier. the XR looks like it might get really busy if it was on the 3 magnification setting. I've been looking for images through a scope in that specific set up, but I can only search with my phone surfing downtime, or late night after attending to the wifes honey do list.

with option looks good to me. On highest magnification I would hope that neither take up too much visual realestate.

 

[Longshot38]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

I haved both USO and Premier sitting on top of my rifles and the Premier is my scope of choice. Premiers turrets and reticle won me over. If money is no option the Premier is where my money goes.

Other have mentioned Hensoldt and S&B. Both are good scopes but neither is head and shoulder better then Premier. Each have their strong points and each gives ground to the other in one aspect or another. But as I mentioned earlier Premier is what fits me best.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

To be more to the point on what I want is a scope that can be shot in the relative near range and still be viable out to 1500 yards or so, if more then better. It's lofty and unlikely that I can ever live up to that skill level, but I want to give myself the best shot.

The most important factor is quality. To me that is durability, repeatability, and being a servicable tool.

Next is function. Maybe that is the EREK knob of the tucked away illumination on the PR. USO has so many options its hard to tell what variables will be desired. It's a bit like building an AR. So many viable options.

The final important factor is that the contrast, eye relief, brightness, and perceived resolution of the image is excelent. I honestly real the glass in any of the top end scopes is great. Just small niggles such as the objective lens on the sn3 being 44mm as standard. What would the wider lens get me?

I do know that on the 2 NF scopes I looked through I felt the edges of the image warped, and that the focus was really hard to dial in and that made the image I saw look "overexposed" for lack of a better word.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Awesome longshot! What about the turrets was better if you care to expand that would be fantastic?

As for reticle choice what did you go with, and is it not available with USO? Was it just better sized on the PR?

 

[Longshot38]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SheepsClothes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Awesome longshot! What about the turrets was better if you care to expand that would be fantastic?

As for reticle choice what did you go with, and is it not available with USO? Was it just better sized on the PR? </div></div>

When it comes to turrets Premier has the best design I have seen to date. The double turn turrets w/ MTC feature is really nice but S&B has this feature also. The tool less zero feature is something that is unique to Premier and is just plan awesome. Also the indicator for which rotation you are on is fantastic. The part that really set it apart from USO EREK knob that I had to break my check weld in order to see the EREK knob while I can see turret on my Premier without breaking my check weld.

When it comes to reticle USO will get you almost any reticle you want including custom designs. Thus it really isn't that big of an issue. But my favorite reticle is the Gen II XR, which is a Premier design.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

On low power does the XR clog up the image, or in opposition is it too thick when on max magnification?

I have heard that perhaps the USO scopes have thicker lines and can cover the target.

Would a low profile ocular make the EREK know visible? I have to admit that top Knob the robust design and what I hear is great CS us what made me look at USO. If the knob solves one issue to make another that makes it less appealing.

 

[Longshot38]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SheepsClothes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On low power does the XR clog up the image, or in opposition is it too thick when on max magnification?

I have heard that perhaps the USO scopes have thicker lines and can cover the target.

Would a low profile ocular make the EREK know visible? I have to admit that top Knob the robust design and what I hear is great CS us what made me look at USO. If the knob solves one issue to make another that makes it less appealing. </div></div>

The Gen II XR reticle covers the exact same amount of area no matter what magnification it is set to. This is why FFP works so well. While the reticle gets larger so does the target thus no worries. As for the USO design I don't really know the scope I demoed had the GAP design in it.

As for the EREK knob changing the ocular design would not change my finding. The issue is that the numbers on the turret sit to low thus the only way to see them is to break check weld. But to its credit this was my only complaint with the turret other then that I was happy with the design.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Great info. I had read that because the FFP design sometimes on the lowest power the crosshair became too fine to see and in the highest power it might end up with the lines a little thick against the target due to it increasing in size along with the magnification.

 

[wjwill]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Since I went to USO, I never looked back. I just like the option of the scope being built to what YOU WANT it to be. USO has a lot of options and they will custom build it for you.

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

One thing I've found in my research on the subject is there are no hash marks on the Premier's parallax knob for reference. I've also begun finding a few issues people have had with the adjustments.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2281255

Just my opinion, but if a company is going to charge 3k+ for a scope, hash marks should be on there and 100% correct.


From what I have heard, read, understand, USO is an excellent product. Their versatility and customization is a huge plus in my book.

 

[Longshot38]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing I've found in my research on the subject is there are no hash marks on the Premier's parallax knob for reference. I've also begun finding a few issues people have had with the adjustments.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2281255

Just my opinion, but if a company is going to charge 3k+ for a scope, hash marks should be on there and 100% correct. </div></div>

This issue has been addressed. The new scopes have markings on the parallax.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SheepsClothes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never considered the Bushnell offerings. I'll try to find some. I couldn't find that scope by name on their website.
</div></div>

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2563077

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2731332&page=1

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2713094&page=1

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...945#Post2695945

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...999#Post2643999

 

[lovec]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haved both USO and Premier sitting on top of my rifles and the Premier is my scope of choice. Premiers turrets and reticle won me over. If money is no option the Premier is where my money goes.

Other have mentioned Hensoldt and S&B. Both are good scopes but neither is head and shoulder better then Premier. Each have their strong points and each gives ground to the other in one aspect or another. But as I mentioned earlier Premier is what fits me best. </div></div>

+1

Premier 5-25x56 is my top choice.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Thank you for the link!
I didn't know it was a special offer here.

It looks good, maybe less robust looking and no zero stop. I'll read more on it, but I'm pretty smitten with PR and USO right now.

 

[bengates]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Having spent some time behind USO's, PR's, NF's, and S&B's I must say that the S&B is noticeably superior when it comes to lack of chromatic aberration. When it comes to the mechanical components of each on these scopes, there are some things that I prefer more on some than on others. However, when you spend hours behind each of them, you can start to see the imperfections in the optical performance of some of these scopes. After spending a LOT of money and time behind all of these scopes, I am absolutely sold on the S&B. I recently picked up a PR 5-25 and thought it was beautiful in design and function, but I looked through it for about 2 seconds and immediately noticed the optical distortions.

Understand that all of these scopes are of top quality, and I really like the EREK knob and the PR non-tool adjustment. Each of the exterior mechanisms are open to your preferences for which is better. That being said, one can see the optical imperfections in the PR and USO a lot quicker than the S&B and I for one will not waste any more money on something that I notice every time I look through the scope. Besides, looking through the scope is where you spend most of your time!

Good luck. I'm happy to see that you're at least looking at good glass in general. You won't be dissatisfied!

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

That's a great point uncle.

The chromatic aberration is most likely what I found unpleasant in the NF. I didn't notice it in some of the lower cost scopes though. Many looked to have great focus of the light, but they were absolutely not as bright and they did not appear to have as good of resolution. The mk4 Lupe that I looked through is a good example. It lost a sense of contrast in the transition and looked dull and flat in comparison. Some of the other scopes were nice and the s&b carried lots of light but I didn't think the overall picture was magnificent like I've heard about. Maybe the PMII is just that awesome.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

About looking at good glass. That is what I took away from just about every thing I could read.

Practice and skill is the most important, but when it comes to quality components the glass is the most important component that isn't consumed over time. Might as well spend the majority of time researching and money spent from the get go on that important piece.

 

[BCP]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Vortex HD, NF, IOR, S&B, Premier, USO all have glass that is equal to or great than "good enough" so I don't think that is much of an issue.

Do I want to holdover or dial? Is weight a factor? Mil or Moa adjustments? FFP or SFP? Do I need illumination? Does the company have a good warranty? Think about things like that.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

BPC that is exactly what I mean.

To me weight isn't too much of a factor however. Even more so if its an indication of more durability. FFP and illumination is needed.

As for warranty I, what's on paper isn't always the whole story. If everything is covered but it takes 13 months to make a claim, that's not so helpful.

When I made the thread I was hoping to get peoples impressions on how the 2 scopes compare. That's a hard request because USO scopes can vary so much with all the configuration options. What I am hearing though is that many who owned both liked the premier better. Turrets, reticel, and a perception of a better optical situation.

If that's because of a larger objective lens or not, I don't know.

I feel a little bad about this whole mess as I unintentionally opened a can of worms with this compare and contrast request. In general "this or that" threads usually suck on the internet, and I provably should have just sniped questions in existing threads.

 

[BCP]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Nightforce F1, Vortex Razor, IOR 3-18x50, Premier 3-15/light tactical, USO 3-17, S&B 3-12, 4-16 and 5-25 all offer what you want. After that it's features and how much of your hard-earned $$$$ you're willing to spend.

 

[XTR]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

I'm not sure if you said what reticle you want, at the the close to $3000 price point that may be your deciding factor. At that level all the quality is generally outstanding.

That said, you mentioned earlier that you had not looked at Bushnell, you should. Unless illumination is a requirement there are 3 really good reticle options in the HDMR in the $1500 price range. If you have to have zero stops and illumination they don't offer it, but the $1500 left in my pocket buys a lot of bullets, and I've spent more on bullet parts this yr than I did on my custom built R700. Something to think about, where do you put the shooting funds.

 

[GardDog]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

I have recently bought my second USO SN-3 3.2-17. It is enough scope to get you to 1000 yards. I'm sold on the USO product and customer support. A word of advice... Buying a scope without basing your decision on getting your eye behind one can be a problem. It's like buying shoes over the internet... You don't know how the different brands will fit you until you get your hands on it. Make a friend or two on here and see if they can meet-up with you and let you look through their glass. I was sold on a particular brand without hands-on experience, only to regret the purchase and sell it later. USO works for me and alot of others, but try before you buy and you will feel better about dumping a chunk of money on optics.

 

[BCP]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GardDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was sold on a particular brand without hands-on experience, only to regret the purchase and sell it later.</div></div>

That too.

Some people are very particular about scope features ie eyebox, turret feel etc. Better to try it out first if possible.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Anyone bored in MN and want to show me their multiple thousand dollar scopes?

I'll bring a case of surly or red dog depending on your tastes.

You fellas are right. I have had a Hell of a time finding a premier, and of course even more so a USO. I did find a place with a PMII but they sounded hesitant to pull it out of its BNIB box for me on a whim. It's only double the price of the DPMS I got from them sheesh.

With all the ISO options one may feel massively different to the next too. For example I lean towards the AO ox adjustment, but I think many guys would like it on the side.

 

[GardDog]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Post up a request in the Members Link Up sub-forum, some might not see it in the Optics Section.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=22&page=1

Oh... and fill out your profile location before BR introduces himself.

 

[marco.g]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Once you decide on the scope you want, scour the classifieds. I picked up a Premier light tac on here for a fair price. Its definitely better than paying retail for optics.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

I am pretty much in the same place as SheepsClothes. Trying to decide between a PR 5-25x56 H2CMR or S&B PMII 5-25x56 Gen II XR.

Been doing a lot of reading and gotten much input from people who favor one better then the other. Also have heard that S&B has a state-side repair facility in New Hampshire. Don't know if S&B warrenty work goes there or not.

Have been told that the same engineer did the design work on both the PR and S&B scopes.

Not that I don't think USO and Hensoldt aren't right up there, just narrowed the field to S&B or PR.

Either would be a big step up from the Leupolds I am used to, but which one? Logical answer is to find them and compare.

Thanks,
OFG

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

OFG.

What are you shooting? That's a really high power unless everything you are shooting is a few hundred yards out there.

I'm positive that anything I've listed or the ones you mentioned will be amazing. Especially as the most time I spent behind scopes has been behind sub 300 dollar glass. I just want something to grow up and grow old with for those nights when the wife takes the dog and locks me out.

The pup is a traitorous Judas.

To me when looking at magnification, its actually more about how low it goes rather than how high. Unless I was shooting some of the big magnum rounds, .338 lap, or more and absolutely never engaging targets sub 100 yards 5 mag power is too much. Realistically looking at stuff 250 yards out at more than 5 power is hairy in my experience.

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Thanks for the tip garddog.

I forgot I didn't set up a profile. I am on my phone on this site 90% of the time between office work as my employer doesn't appreciate the weapons so much.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

The new glass will be replacing a Mk4 4.5-14x50 on a Rem 5R Milspec in 308. It is used mostly for percsion matches at 200 yds where the top shots use and reccomend fixed 36 power scopes, hence the 25 part of 5-25. It will also take the 308 as far as it will go for longer ranges.

If I didn't want the versatility of a tacticle scope I could go with a fixed power target scope and save a bunch of $$$.

I have other rifles for hunting so the low range at 5 isn't a problem.

Life was simpler when Leupold was my step-up brand. After doing a lot of research I have come to the conclusion that there are 4 or 5 really good brand choices that don't have significant compromises.

OFG

 

[BCP]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

OFG

Why not a nightforce 5-22 or 8-32? That or set up a whole new rifle for the type of shooting you are doing like a bull barrel 223 and then ebay for a used leupold or weaver target scope. Might be a better choice especially if they are doing really long strings of fire.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

BCP,

While they are generally considered a step up from Leupold Nightforce did not make the cut for the top contenders. PR, USO, S&B, and Hensoldt did. As far as the $$$ go, stepping up from aprox 2K for the NF to 3k for the top 4 isn't that big of a step.

The 5R shoots better then I do so no sense in setting up a new rifle. I already shoot a SPS-T in 223 so that is covered, and the Weaver target scopes aren't going to do it for me. Leuplod has been my standard but it is time to move on.

Typical string is 30 rnds in 20 to 16 minutes.

Thanks for your input,

OFG

 

[Broadway]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

OFG - first you have chosen excellent glass by any standards.
Speaking only for my abilities and budget, for the applications specified I would go with the NF and 1k worth of quality range time. It has been my experience that those top contenders did not get there because of their scopes. In good lighting, they would be doing very well with a <1k scope as well.

Good luck.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

Broadway,

Thanks for your input. The original thread was comparing USO to PR scopes. I have a similar quandry trying to choose PR vs S&B.

And I do apprectiate your recomendations for Nigh Force and range time. You are spot-on as to range time being the biggest return on investment. The range is close so time there comes cheap.

The main goal is to put longer legs under the 308 5R and maybe have a decent setup for a class or two.

All other considerations aside, it is still S&B vs PR.

Thanks,
OFG

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: New member, new scope, USO, PR, or???

I do think you are spot on with the range time being important, however when I was playing the the NF scopes I was just not impressed with what I saw. They could have been poor examples, however there was distortion around the edges of the image and I personally had trouble getting a focused image.

Unlike OFG I wasn't so impressed with s and b. It was just fine glass, but not anything more than that. Simple pure good looking glass. It was more clear perhaps than others but not so much so that I felt like it was worth the money. Perhaps the top PMII is just that much better, bit I can't imagine so.

I am looking at PR and USO because of feature and being US based companies.

They also have very unique features that could offer me great advantages. I'm just trying to suss out which one has a better suite of features for me, but asking what others have experienced. An open and honest compare and contrast between the PR heritage and USO sn-3 is the basis of my inquiry.