New Offering vs AI

[Hawk in WY]

Many new and exciting actions to investigate.

Before I get too far into this, if AI is the standard how do the new offerings compare?

Do they offer advantages or only for PRS?

Thank you for sharing your perspectives.

 

[Nik H]

I struggled with this decision for a while. I am LH so custom was my only route in all honest. I looked at so many customs...TacOps, GAP, Spartan, SAC...All were beautiful. All had pedigrees. All could shoot lights out.

I guess I always wanted an AI. I know it is a "stock" rifle. But it is battle proven...it's reputation IN BATTLE kept luring me back. It offered multi-caliber easy change barrels. I went that route and you know what...I have never looked back. It is that good.

In the end, it depends what type of shooting you enjoy. Can you buy something that is more accurate...sure but I am not at that level. I would rather have something that I know will work in any condition I could ever expose it to. Not saying the other won't but the AI is truly special IMHO

 

[texag0842]

I'm rocking a left-handed Accuracy International. Having a smith spin up another 6.5CM barrel so to me it's the best of both worlds.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I have the AI bug bad. I am still trying to figure how I end ended up with 4 of them. I do know I will go to my grave with them. I have shot some local matches and the only disadvantage to running an AI is the weight. They are heavy probably 2 to 3lbs more then most other rifles. Accuracy is 1/2MOA most times better. Never had a feed issues like a Rem 700 can and the actions feel is great.

 

[Badfinger]

When I first saw an AI I thought it was odd looking and not for me. The more I saw these guns and read their history the better they looked. It's the most durable, adjustable, comfortable, and easy to shoot well gun I've ever owned. If I could only have one rifle it would be an AI and my only regret it not buying one sooner. Get behind one if you can and then try to walk away.

 

[Supersubes]

My feelings EXACTLY match Gixxer and Badfinger. I’ll just reiterate, there is no accuracy difference between an AI and a true custom.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

I'll be the dissenting opinion. I shot an AI in the Steel City Precision match this past weekend.

The AI is a great sniper rifle, and a mediocre PRS rifle. I'm going to be a little hyperbolic.

First off, the AI offers no flexibility. You are stuck with the trigger and with the stock. The pistol grip on the stock is a piece of hot garbage when compared to almost anything else. The trigger works, but I think it still sucks. It cannot go low enough in pull weight to be a really good PRS trigger. Guys are shooting PRS with benchrest triggers now. This isn't Sniping...this is Bianchi cup with bolt guns.

The other issue is that the bolt-lift is stiff. A 90 degree bolt throw on a custom action basically doesn't even move the gun. You can find your next target and work the bolt at the same time with a good custom. You can do the same with an AI, but it is harder.

Overall, there's no reason not to go with an AI if it's what you want. Most of the really good guys are shooting custom bolt guns though. A custom gun that fits you is definitely easier to shoot.

 

[Aaron47pb]

No better way to answer your question than to get both and see for yourself!

 

[DetroitRearView]

I have owned some wonderful customs and other high end factory rifles that were every bit as accurate as my AI’s - But...reliability, the best magazines keeps attached to this fine weapon system. They are heavier and it keeps this old man hitting the weights.

I think we are swinging back to a lighter is better phase in the industry. Admittedly, without the aid of a sling I am not the best offhand with my 27” suppressed AXMC. I have Proofs on my SA AX and it is a breeze to shoot offhand.

The other very big issue for me is the 3 position safety. I will not carry a rem 700 type safety with one in the chamber.
(I hunt with these buggers a lot plus I do not shoot PRS)

 

[tna9001]

I have owned some wonderful customs and other high end factory rifles that were every bit as accurate as my AI’s - But...reliability, the best magazines keeps attached to this fine weapon system. They are heavier and it keeps this old man hitting the weights.

I think we are swinging back to a lighter is better phase in the industry. Admittedly, without the aid of a sling I am not the best offhand with my 27” suppressed AXMC. I have Proofs on my SA AX and it is a breeze to shoot offhand.

The other very big issue for me is the 3 position safety. I will not carry a rem 700 type safety with one in the chamber. ( hunt with these buggers a lot)

How do you like the balance of the rifle with the Proof barrel? I'm going to try and have my barrel shot out by late summer and am thinking about going that route.

 

[Bradu]

I like the AXMC and I think it is pretty hard to beat but I have a problem spending almost 10k by time you add in a bolt, mag adaptor and a short action caliber. I have been thinking about doing a doing a switch barrel on a badger action for my next rifle.

 

[DetroitRearView]

How do you like the balance of the rifle with the Proof barrel? I'm going to try and have my barrel shot out by late summer and am thinking about going that route.

I had a bullpup bolt gun (several actually) similar to that really...my 300 Norma CF Proof should be delivered in the next few weeks and that will be interesting.

Big time difference with the CF’s - still not a lightweight but great balance overall. I won’t order anything but CF’s for my AI’s from here out.

 

[Aaron47pb]

I'll be the dissenting opinion. I shot an AI in the Steel City Precision match this past weekend.

The AI is a great sniper rifle, and a mediocre PRS rifle. I'm going to be a little hyperbolic.

First off, the AI offers no flexibility. You are stuck with the trigger and with the stock. The pistol grip on the stock is a piece of hot garbage when compared to almost anything else. The trigger works, but I think it still sucks. It cannot go low enough in pull weight to be a really good PRS trigger. Guys are shooting PRS with benchrest triggers now. This isn't Sniping...this is Bianchi cup with bolt guns.

The other issue is that the bolt-lift is stiff. A 90 degree bolt throw on a custom action basically doesn't even move the gun. You can find your next target and work the bolt at the same time with a good custom. You can do the same with an AI, but it is harder.

Overall, there's no reason not to go with an AI if it's what you want. Most of the really good guys are shooting custom bolt guns though. A custom gun that fits you is definitely easier to shoot.

I disagree with pretty much everything you mention, but I'll give you the trigger.

AI's offer tons of flexibility. Just not in the sense that you can swap in and out endless different stocks and triggers. AI's fit me better than any custom ever has. I need a really high cheek weld. I can't a high enough cheekweld with KMW loggerhead hardware. Plenty of adjustment with AIs.

I know its a personal preference thing, but I really don't get the pistol grip hate.

My boltlift is pretty darn light, but thats after 5k'ish rounds. I have zero issue running the bolt on barricades without disrupting my POA.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

I disagree with pretty much everything you mention, but I'll give you the trigger.

AI's offer tons of flexibility. Just not in the sense that you can swap in and out endless different stocks and triggers. AI's fit me better than any custom ever has. I need a really high cheek weld. I can't a high enough cheekweld with KMW loggerhead hardware. Plenty of adjustment with AIs.

I know its a personal preference thing, but I really don't get the pistol grip hate.

My boltlift is pretty darn light, but thats after 5k'ish rounds. I have zero issue running the bolt on barricades without disrupting my POA.

You just agreed with me.

There are two pieces that really affect how a gun shoots. The stock and the trigger. You cannot change either one on the AI.

I don't hate the AI. But it's not the same as a good custom when it comes to PRS.

Most PRS stages are either bipod supported or "Gamechanger on a thing" supported. With a benchrest trigger on a custom gun, you can basically just point the rifle at the target and let the bag do all the work. With the AI trigger, you have to do more than just touch it.

I would take the AI over most peoples customs, but I would take a good custom over the AI for PRS matches. Bianchi Bolt Gun.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I am so used to the AI trigger its not an issue for me. I can see how the 2 stage would make it hard for someone doesn't shoot them all the time. The stock I have seen plenty of custom rigs in AI stocks so that also is no issue for me. I saw the MDT and MPA chassis systems at SHOT and they both are very nice and a perfect for PRS.
The thing to remember is get what works for YOU.

 

[Aaron47pb]

You just agreed with me.

There are two pieces that really affect how a gun shoots. The stock and the trigger. You cannot change either one on the AI.

I don't hate the AI. But it's not the same as a good custom when it comes to PRS.

Most PRS stages are either bipod supported or "Gamechanger on a thing" supported. With a benchrest trigger on a custom gun, you can basically just point the rifle at the target and let the bag do all the work. With the AI trigger, you have to do more than just touch it.

I would take the AI over most peoples customs, but I would take a good custom over the AI for PRS matches. Bianchi Bolt Gun.

You can put an AI in an MPA chassis.

The action doesn't "really affect how a gun shoots"?

 

[mercracing]

I bought one about a year ago and love it. One of the big selling points for me is durability and reliability. I see lots of posts from guys with XYZ rifle or XYZ trigger. And they are having problems. I haven’t had one problem with my AI. I know there can be problems but they seem to be much easier to fix. The short answer is I will take my heavier rifle and learn to work with it. And I know it’s always gonna work

 

[DetroitRearView]

^^^
This, a few years ago I took a $4k rifle with me in the back country on an elk hunt. I ended up hunting all week in extreme conditions, 15-40 mph winds, blizzards, temps -10 to + 20. I had to literally pull the firearm apart and get all the moisture out of the trigger mechanism after each morning hunt or it would literally not work as our temps dropped in the late afternoon / evening. Even with all that hassle I had to watch a 360 bull walk right past me at 200 yards because my firearm would not function. I even got behind cover, took my rifle apart got my lighter out and tried to get it unfrozen and working while the bull was still in sight...couldn’t get it done. Ate my tag. Sold the rifle the next week. In the conditions in which I hunt / shoot I know my AI’s and my Blaser R8 will function no mater what you throw at them.

 

[Nik H]

I have had lots of triggers in other sticks and think the AI is phenomenal. Yes there are more adjustable and yes there are lighter but nothing that is as reliable in all conditions. If I were shooting benchrest, I will take the two stage on my Annie every day but not for a gun used in PRS. A lot of the trigger negatives come from people that are used to or prefer the single stage designs.

Consistency and Precision...simply has no equal..................hint.

 

[mercracing]

One thing to add. The reason I don’t place better then where I do in PRS matches isn’t because of my trigger or rifle weight. That is firmly on me.

 

[OH58DViper]

If you like the chassis of the AI, buy the chassis and run a TL3. This way you get the chassis you like and switch caliber capability with the trigger you want. I love my AXMC and have a couple CF barrels ordered for it. This year I dropped the S&B for an AMG in an effort to get it around 15-16 lbs, I’m going to shoot a few comps with it this year and see how it stacks up with one of my full customs. My biggest gripe is the trigger, as my comp guns run at 8oz or so, it’s hard to get comfortable with a two stage tactical trigger when that’s what you are used to. As far as the grip goes, I have big hands (big everything ha) so I like it.

Side note, My vendor informed me AI is coming out with a single stage trigger in the near future, hopefully it’s adjustable down to the ounces realm....

 

[kthomas]

I have had lots of triggers in other sticks and think the AI is phenomenal. Yes there are more adjustable and yes there are lighter but nothing that is as reliable in all conditions. If I were shooting benchrest, I will take the two stage on my Annie every day but not for a gun used in PRS. A lot of the trigger negatives come from people that are used to or prefer the single stage designs.

Consistency and Precision...simply has no equal..................hint.

I've experienced lots of triggers and I think that the AI trigger sucks. Second worst trigger I've tried, behind a stock Remington.

I think AI's make an excellent rifle. One case where the whole rifle is greater than the sum of the parts. It's not the best PRS rifle, but for certain purposes it's pretty much impossible to beat.

 

[Badfinger]

Lets light this candle, a trigger lighter than a pound or so is a crutch for poor fundamentals.

 

[kthomas]

Lets light this candle, a trigger lighter than a pound or so is a crutch for poor fundamentals.

A light trigger definitely let's you get away with a lot more. Look at videos of PRS shooters, half of them slap the trigger like it owes them money. The lack of fundamentals is atrocious at times.

With that said, it still doesn't make the AI trigger any better.

 

[lash]

A light 'trigger' definitely let's you get away with a lot more. Look at videos of PRS shooters, half of them slap the trigger like it owes them money...

Lol! Thanks for the morning laugh. The truth usually is funny.

 

[NotMalware]

I like the AXMC trigger. It's crisp and firm with a deceleration region instead of a hard stop; it's excellent. That being said, I didn't buy my AI as a tool for PRS. I don't care about PRS. And I don't give a fig about what brands or features are in vogue right now. I just like long range shooting, and this AI seems to work pretty well for that. I could probably hit the same targets with a custom rifle or a factory tikka, but I opted for off the shelf super bike rather than buying a street bike and modding the hell out of it to make it competitive.

I do agree with the complaint that it's a bit heavy though.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

There's a lot of people running AI's very successfully and consistently placing high and/or winning shooting AI rifles, they work. I'll say this too, the few matches I shot with a custom vs. an AI I didn't place as high as I have consistently done with my AI's. I've never won one with an AI but I've come really close a couple times.

As for the trigger comments, I personally love the AI trigger. It's adjustable low enough and is clean and crisp. Most of all it's dead nuts reliable. When I've shot an AI I've never had to wipe anything down or douche out my trigger at the end of a day (or during the day) of shooting to keep it running. I've had to do that with every R700 style trigger I've ran. I always carried a bottle of zippo fluid and compressed air in my pack when running a R700 trigger, this isn't even a thought with an AI. I've seen exactly one AI trigger that was "bad" and it was on a friends rifle, it had a ton of creep and AI swapped it without issue.

There's something about having confidence in my equipment that helps me mentally and with AI I have this confidence that I've had with no other platform. Every time I've tried something else I've always come right back to AI because they just work. You get the absolute highest field reliability with benchrest level accuracy.

 

[Nik H]

A light trigger definitely let's you get away with a lot more. Look at videos of PRS shooters, half of them slap the trigger like it owes them money. The lack of fundamentals is atrocious at times.

With that said, it still doesn't make the AI trigger any better.

Comparing the AI to Remington is not worth a comment. However, I am always willing to learn.

So what trigger do you prefer?

 

[delfuego]

Look at videos of PRS shooters, half of them slap the trigger like it owes them money. The lack of fundamentals is atrocious at times.

But they're still making hits... and cashing those checks... Don't be a hater...

You can shoot AI's in PRS, it won't be a detriment. I might own one, but I shoot stubby cartridges and it doesn't like them. I am kinda jealous of the AT barrel change system for sure. Trigger like anything else would take practice.

 

[kthomas]

Comparing the AI to Remington is not worth a comment. However, I am always willing to learn.

So what trigger do you prefer?

Right now I am really liking the Bix 'n Andy Tacsport trigger. For single stages, I like the Trigger Tech's.

The AI trigger I hated was on a friend's AI AT. Lots of creep, over travel and heavy pull weight. Another friend has an AI PSR rifle with the trigger adjusted by Jacob of RO, and that trigger is actually fairly nice. So perhaps my sweeping generalization of AI triggers is not fair.

At the end of the day, triggers are fairly subjective.

 

[Mormegil87]

I've owned several customs and sold them all to switch over to running 100% AIs. I place a premium on reliability and have seen too many customs go down in everything from sand in the summer to snow and arctic temps in the winter. I can't hit targets if I'm trying to fix a rifle. If my AIs should go down I can pretty much diagnose and replace anything with a 4mm Hex wrench on the fly. My AIs just keep trucking along and are just as accurate for me as any custom gun I've ever owned.

Full disclosure. I had to send one of my AI bolts off to get an extractor replaced. Just pulled the bolt off the other gun and ran with it without missing a beat until Mile High sent the original bolt back.

That all being said, everyone places a premium on different things, some people like myself want a gun that runs no matter what. Some people put a premium on adjustable triggers. Some people like the feel for traditional stocks so they put a premium on that. Everyone has a preference, don't let their preference dictate what you choose to run. This is a super excited time for long range shooting, the variety and advancements in equipment are phenomenal compared to where we were when I got into this sport in 2013-1014. Try things out, ask to get behind different guns and scopes, figure out what works for you.

 

[jbell]

I am actually shocked that you felt an AI trigger with lots of creep! I have shot & owned quite a few different Accuracy International rifles anything from rifles made in the 90's and mid 2000's (old style trigger) to current production rifles with the "target" trigger or whatever it is called and not one of them had any real creep to the second stage.

I grew up shooting 2 stage triggers shooting 3P air rifle and rimfire and personally do not care for a single stage trigger. IMO a 2 stage is much easier to be repeatable with than a single especially in adverse conditions or unsupported / unconventional positions. To each their own of course and if you prefer a single stage trigger that is perfectly fine. But you are going WAY far out on a limb to say that an AI trigger sucks, especially when your basing that on a sample rate of 1 (your friends AT). Of all the hundreds of triggers I have shot over the years Accuracy International triggers (both styles) are by far the most consistent in feel, reliable in all conditions, and honestly safest triggers (based on the design of how the sear operates) made. It is true that an AI trigger will not adjust down in the low ounces but if someone needs a ultra light trigger to shoot well it isn't a heavier trigger (as long as it is consistent) causing the problem it is ALWAYS a shooter issue as in poor fundamentals.

 

[DetroitRearView]

Right now I am really liking the Bix 'n Andy Tacsport trigger. For single stages, I like the Trigger Tech's.

The AI trigger I hated was on a friend's AI AT. Lots of creep, over travel and heavy pull weight. Another friend has an AI PSR rifle with the trigger adjusted by Jacob of RO, and that trigger is actually fairly nice. So perhaps my sweeping generalization of AI triggers is not fair.

At the end of the day, triggers are fairly subjective.

I think by this statement you mean triggers are very much a personal preference for a shooter; however the actual trigger is not subjective - it is mechanical and it is science.

 

[Nik H]

Right now I am really liking the Bix 'n Andy Tacsport trigger. For single stages, I like the Trigger Tech's.

The AI trigger I hated was on a friend's AI AT. Lots of creep, over travel and heavy pull weight. Another friend has an AI PSR rifle with the trigger adjusted by Jacob of RO, and that trigger is actually fairly nice. So perhaps my sweeping generalization of AI triggers is not fair.

At the end of the day, triggers are fairly subjective.

OK. I can’t disagree about the B&A trigger. They make a nice trigger.

It isn’t designed to do what an AI does and there lies the compromise. The AI doesn’t do what the B&A does.

It comes down to what you want

 

[lte82]

Those Olympic athletes using 50 gram triggers must have terrible fundamentals lol.

 

[Supersubes]

Right now I am really liking the Bix 'n Andy Tacsport trigger. For single stages, I like the Trigger Tech's.

The AI trigger I hated was on a friend's AI AT. Lots of creep, over travel and heavy pull weight. Another friend has an AI PSR rifle with the trigger adjusted by Jacob of RO, and that trigger is actually fairly nice. So perhaps my sweeping generalization of AI triggers is not fair.

At the end of the day, triggers are fairly subjective.

Im not trying to pile on here, so please don’t take it that way. I agree, triggers are a subjective thing. How you approach them though can be tailored a bit, as what most feel about triggers is based on familiarity and comfort. In the past, it was ideal to set up a single stage trigger with no creep, and as close to zero overtravel as possible. On a remmy trigger you’d have very little sear engagement and very little spring resetting it. Some still do this and regard it as a good trigger, but on a remmy style trigger, it isn’t exactly reliable.

As Jbell noted, the AI trigger operates on a mile of sear engagement. Many many times greater than a typical Remington style. It also wraps up a lot of its overall weight in the first stage, which is balanced on the back side by the generous and springy overtravel. This is my issue with other triggers, like the trigger tech. They’re nice and crispy, but then you crash through nothing but air into a hard stop. Despite its clever sear design, they haven’t addressed what happens on the back side of the break at all. The AI is just as crisp, but as the rifle is recoiling, you’re isolated by the spring in the overtravel, and you never reach hard stop. To me this makes it forgiving. If you did reach the end of the overtravel, that’s a sure sign that you crushed the hell out of the trigger, and Jacob will be very disappointed in you. Just my .02.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Those Olympic athletes using 50 gram triggers must have terrible fundamentals lol.

So, you think you won the argument, particularly with your parting and oh so witty “lol”, or is there any merit in what others are saying about heavier triggers for different shooting disciplines?

 

[Smooth_87]

If you can’t shoot well with an AI you probably can’t shoot well with anything.

 

[lte82]

So, you think you won the argument, particularly with your parting and oh so witty “lol”, or is there any merit in what others are saying about heavier triggers for different shooting disciplines?

The "if someone needs a ultra light trigger to shoot well it isn't a heavier trigger (as long as it is consistent) causing the problem it is ALWAYS a shooter issue as in poor fundamentals" statement makes it sound like trigger weight is always arbitrary if you have *fundamentals*. Im simply pointing out that this is not the case at all. I 100% agree that heavy and light triggers have their place in different disciplines, that was actually my point.

 

[jbell]

Those Olympic athletes using 50 gram triggers must have terrible fundamentals lol.

I am afraid you completely missed the point...

 

[jbell]

Hmmm, I see how my statement is a bit ambiguous. I suppose I should have said given proper fundamentals the results would be the same if your shooting a 2oz, 8oz, 2lb, or even a 3lb-4lb trigger. None of which has to do with personal preference, which I would never try and argue that someone should choose one over the other.

 

[lte82]

Hmmm, I see how my statement is a bit ambiguous. I suppose I should have said given proper fundamentals the results would be the same if your shooting a 2oz, 8oz, 2lb, or even a 3lb-4lb trigger. None of which has to do with personal preference, which I would never try and argue that someone should choose one over the other.

I hold a national record or two and set them with a 5.x pound trigger in a class that allows down to 4.5 pound. And the better shooters can compete and win against guys that have much lighter triggers in the open class. So, I really tend to agree with your statement for most applications. But, for precision sports like smallbore or air rifle, I don't care what fundamentals you have, 4 pound triggers aren't competitive at the highest level. But then we are off on a tangent now, let's get back to why AI triggers are awesome...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You guys do know that an AI trigger is adjustable right?

 

[jbell]

But, for precision sports like smallbore or air rifle, I don't care what fundamentals you have, 4 pound triggers aren't competitive at the highest level.

I agree completely, and yes a bit of a tangent.

 

[Supersubes]

You guys do know that an AI trigger is adjustable right?

Sure, but the bottom end is way above the bottom end of rem pattern custom trigger.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Sure, but the bottom end is way above the bottom end of rem pattern custom trigger.

Yep and running the bottom end on some of those is just asking for a DQ. My AXMC trigger breaks clean and crisp at about 1.5lbs, if that isn't light enough then you need to go back to the basics and learn how to shoot.

 

[Supersubes]

Yep and running the bottom end on some of those is just asking for a DQ. My AXMC trigger breaks clean and crisp at about 1.5lbs, if that isn't light enough then you need to go back to the basics and learn how to shoot.

Preaching to the choir. Im a fan. It’s one of the gripes people have about them(not me).


None of mine have ever gonna as light as yours by the way. I believe the spec calls out 3.5 as the bottom, but of course they’ll vary a bit. Mine have all been in that range though.

 

[JeffLebowski]

The "if someone needs a ultra light trigger to shoot well it isn't a heavier trigger (as long as it is consistent) causing the problem it is ALWAYS a shooter issue as in poor fundamentals" statement makes it sound like trigger weight is always arbitrary if you have *fundamentals*. Im simply pointing out that this is not the case at all. I 100% agree that heavy and light triggers have their place in different disciplines, that was actually my point.

That’s a hell of a lot better put than a sarcastic quip followed by teenage text language, thank you.

 

[Hawk in WY]

Back to the original question.

I like the AI trigger a lot for long range shooting.

I don’t (yet) compete in PRS.

So should I just stay with my .243 AIAW, buy another AI when I can’t live without one more rifle or should I investigate all the new offering coming to market? I shoot to one mile.

Thank you for sharing your views.

 

[NotMalware]

I say shoot what you've got. You can always switch to another rifle if you feel like it would be beneficial.