Gunsmithing New product for you Gunsmiths !

Glen Seekins

Gunny Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 28, 2004
1,299
115
lewiston, ID
www.seekinsprecision.com
One thing i have always dreaded was paperwork, logging in and out firearms and trying to keep everything perfect so when the ATF stops by i could wow them with whatever they want to see. Now imagine logging in and out 300 or 500 lower receivers at a time! Sounds like a fun, two days of work that i don't need added to my schedule. The ATF passed a rule a while ago that you could use electronic means of record keeping as long as they meet their rules. We started with excel until we were told it wasn't legal by them!

Since last year i have been working with my brother in law that is a computer programmer to develop a database program that was as automatic as we could make it for acquisition and deposition tracking. i couldnt find anything that was made for what we need unless it was by some engineer that had no understanding about the process. It also had to be dirt simple so anyone that just purchased their first computer could use it as well as comply with all of what the ATF wanted. Connected to the internet it auto populates the FFL info, you just type in the number. It also keeps track of any changes you make to any record. You can search by any field you enter in and it takes a whopping 30 seconds to do what you need. The user interface is very easy and modern, you can enter in multiple serial numbers at one time. (if you get 1000 lowers from us it only takes 30 seconds to acquire them). The program auto saves for you on a daily backup schedule, you can make reports and print them out for your book. It even remembers what you printed last time so you don't re-print anything. You can put notes with the acquisition like tracking numbers for when you ship, order details or anything else you need. In short its freaking sweet, legal and will take a huge workload off of your record keeping. Price is $350 to own the software. Sounds expensive vs the free book you use now but the time and headache it saves you is well worth it! I have been using it and working out the bugs for 6 months and its saved me a ton of hours.

I will take some screen shots and post them up so you can see. We have a free 30 day demo that you can play with and i can web conference in to get you setup and going. Everyone that i have showed it to wished they had it years ago...
 
Re: New product for you Gunsmiths !

We have the demo's ready. Send me a email and i can send it to you with some instructions to get you started. Im here for questions too, but its so easy a <span style="text-decoration: line-through">caveman</span> gunsmith can do it ™
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Front Page, Nice and small and simple to get where you need to go..

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Acquisition and disposition page. You CAN do both at the same time. (great for transfers). You can also do multiple serial numbers in just one click
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The find page where you can search for any field or combinations of fields faster than you can click.

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The Report page. This is what you see on the reports. You can print this exactly the way it appears and keep a hard copy.

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What the contacts page looks like. When you enter a new contact that has a FFL all you enter is the FFL number and the program goes out to ATF's database and gets the rest of the info for you.

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Re: New product for you Gunsmiths !

That looks very good Glen. Time well spent, developing that. I've been working on my own 'logging' system here for my own uses. Just with plain old 'excel' though.

The ATF give you an 'actual' reason why they won't take excel, or where they just "whimsical"?
 
Re: New product for you Gunsmiths !

As did I (excel) till I called Industry ops yesterday.

It seems on my end that if I call back enough times I'll eventually get the answer I want.

Problem becomes trying to use that when questioned. Funny how folks develop amnesia. . .
 
Re: New product for you Gunsmiths !

This is for anyone that has a FFL or has to enter data into a bound book. This will make any ATF visit short and sweet as long as you do your job..

You can setup as many books as you want (NFA can be separate from standard) Or transfers only can go in its own spot. They are easy to setup and make as many books as you want.

Also, we are working on a work order page for gunsmiths. Just depends on how the program is received and if its going to actually sell. This page will be linked to the acquisition and pull some info from that. You enter in what the work is to be done. You can go back and enter in updates like "stock ordered 5/5/2011" Action received 6/11/2011..bedding completed 11/11/2011... Then whenever you want, you can click one button and email the entire page to your customer. Gives them a update every time you enter in new info so they dont call and bug the crap out of you for updates :)

You get any updates to the software for free, no need to pay again (unless you just feel generous that day) and its easy to do updates without worrying about existing info loss.

With excel you can easily screw up everything in the document by doing a "sort by" and not selecting properly. IT will re arrange your cells and then your screwed. You can password protect so employees dont screw it up, but you can still screw it up. Its like playing with matches, eventually your going to burn your finger.

I was told once that excel was OK then was told it was not. The way the ATF person you talk to interpreted the law is one thing and the actual law is the other. For me, i would rather not take the chance of getting someone stopping by that thinks excel is ok. Also, if you ask enough times you will get the answer you want to hear but i doubt it will be remembered by them when they get questioned about it.

Here is where the ATF talks about the rules..
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2008-2.pdf

#1 This is the biggest reason. You can edit or change excel however you want, even if you just enter the corrected info in the line below the original, the original is still capable of being edited. This is the same as ripping out a page in your bound book...

1. All data entered into the computer system must be recorded into the database and
<span style="color: #FF0000">cannot be capable of being edited or modified at a later date without generating an
audit trail. The software system must retain any correction of errors as an entirely
new entry, without deleting or modifying the original entry.</span> The system may allow
for entries in a notes column to explain any correction.

#2 This isn't as important because you can back up every day, but with excel you are going to have copies on top of copies and its easy to loose track. Thats where i ran into issues and decided i needed a program like this. Also, the program will auto backup however you like OR if auto isn't setup it will prompt and bug the shit out of you to backup every day
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2. The system must have a reliable daily memory backup capability to protect the data
from accidental deletion or other system failure.

Other than that its just your standard data that has to be entered, printed when required and such.
 
Re: New product for you Gunsmiths !

Glen, we use eBound at my work now, which as long as its up and running on our server ok is quite user friendly and powerful. Im just curious if you looked at that and made the decision to write something new for a particular reason?

From what I can tell from the screenshots and info, it seems like it just adds the FFL Ezcheck ability. Im sure theres other features, but at a glance thats what I notice.

Ill probably start from the bat with an electronic bound book, so I want to get shopping now. eBound is about half the price.

Thanks
 
Re: New product for you Gunsmiths !

To be perfectly honest i didn't even see it. We searched a ton on the net and didn't see that one. I found others, but the thing i did not like about some is only one book was allowed and you could only do 1 entry at a time. I also wanted to auto populate everything off of the ATF's site, so i just had to type in a FFL number. Also needed something that would track history, so if a transaction was edited there would be a history to look back on. I couldn't find this anywhere and its a requirement..The way ours works is you can log in or out multiple SN#'s at once. It generates them. You just say SN# 1-230 and if you are missing some between you can say to ignore 4, 32 and 156. Probably not a big deal for someone that doesn't need it, but for a manufacture its sure nice.
 
Re: New product for you Gunsmiths !

Yeah, this was the first time I looked for eBound outside of at work, I kind of expected it to be a much more well known and marketed product than it is.

Definitely sounds like youve made some serious improvements and innovations with yours. Would definitely be the cats ass for a mfg.

Id love to give it a ride when I get up and running, I could probably give some decent feedback for you also after using this other program for 2 years now.
 
Re: New product for you Gunsmiths !

Not sure if it's impolite to mention this here, but just so that you're aware, ARS has been offering a software package for several years now that combined A&D along with inventory control and retail sales functions. Modifications and deletions are tracked for audit purposes, and I think it will support multiple books. Their software doesn't auto-populate FFL data, nor does it connect to other instances of the same software to populate data on a transfer, though. On the other hand, it allows considerably more detail to be added to the individual items. Offhand, the biggest drawback that I see with EZ Arms Keeper is that it doesn't appear to be configured for use by anyone other than gunsmiths and possibly manufacturers. Adding pricing and inventory management details would be needed to make it seriously competetive.