New School technique versus Old School requirements - shooting unsupported?

[DJL2]

I might be a lousy shot, but I don't live under a rock. I know I'm supposed to square up behind my rifle and, as a guy that didn't learn to shoot that way, I'm working on it. However, here's my dumb question: how does one square up, or do you, when the requirement exists to build a position that requires you to hold the rifle?

The "old school" prone position made, still makes, sense to me because when coupled with the requirement to support the rifle by hand, I'm not sure how to do that otherwise. Moreover, the difference in stability between a rifle/stance that keeps the COG behind my support hand, versus in front of it, is pretty significant. I want to build an optimal prone unsupported position, and I'm not quite sure how to leverage our current body of precision rifle knowledge to support that. Second part - how does this impact ideal stock design and fitting?

 

[Winny94]

Whats the 'old school' way to shoot prone?

 

[DJL2]

Bladed behind the rifle, gripping the forend/hand guard with the support hand, slung up if you know how and have the sling for it. That same basic prone unsupported position could be assumed supported over bags/packs, etc.

 

[C.R. Adams]

I might be a lousy shot, but I don't live under a rock. I know I'm supposed to square up behind my rifle and, as a guy that didn't learn to shoot that way, I'm working on it. However, here's my dumb question: how does one square up, or do you, when the requirement exists to build a position that requires you to hold the rifle?

The "old school" prone position made, still makes, sense to me because when coupled with the requirement to support the rifle by hand, I'm not sure how to do that otherwise. Moreover, the difference in stability between a rifle/stance that keeps the COG behind my support hand, versus in front of it, is pretty significant. I want to build an optimal prone unsupported position, and I'm not quite sure how to leverage our current body of precision rifle knowledge to support that. Second part - how does this impact ideal stock design and fitting?

"Squaring up behind the rifle" in the prone position requires the forearm of the rifle to be supported by some device. Whether that device be a bi-pod, ruck sack, etc.

Shooting "old school" from the prone with the rifle supported by hand does not allow itself to "squaring up behind the rifle". Rotating the shoulders/body, is the only way "lengthen" the support arm, allowing it to reach the forearm.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Unsupported positions don’t allow you to get straight behind the rifle. You’re confusing techniques.

What has changed is more the rifles and equipment.

Most modern tactical rifles are not really designed to be used unsupported unless in an emergency situation.

 

[pmclaine]

There are no absolutes.

There are best practices.

Circumstances matter.

Personal preference is good if it works.

Be ready to abandon personal preference and habit if experience shows something can help you improve.

This being a "precision place" traditional high power positional shooting isn't the topic at hand. I think there are few here that would say what you do with a loop sling or without some sort of mechanical support requires modification of methods.

Still fundamentals stay the same - relaxed position, NPA, manipulation of the trigger without movement of the sights, follow through.

 

[DJL2]

Ok...I’m either dumber than I thought or not as dumb as I thought...jury is still out.

Makes sense though - so there’s that.

 

[pmclaine]

Someone just posted some videos on recoil forces and the physics of why somethings are best practice.

Do a search for the videos and give them a look. I only saw little of one and it looked interesting.

A cocked position isn't a "No, no" if it provides advantage under certain conditions. The videos will show visually though what recoil forces do and why having more meat to absorb them is good.

If I come across the vids again Ill come back and add edit in.

 

[308pirate]

You don't necessarily need to blade out to one side to shoot a sling-supported prone.

While the shoulders are not squared to the rifle (due to the need to support the forearm with the offside hand) the spine is aligned with the direction of recoil

Photo courtesy of the US Army Marksmanship Unit

 

[pmclaine]

Take a look at these vids and judge advantages/weaknesses of different techniques. Methods to manage recoil force...

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/science-of-recoil-videos.6980201/#post-8218431

 

[acudaowner]

was about to go on about missing the days where the nuns would beat kids who acted up in class nothing like laughing at friends in pain but its not that post sorry .