New Scope Dilemma

[rdramsey8]

I’m currently running a SWFA 10x42, but I’d like to replace it with a variable. My number one priority is durability/reliability. I’d replace it with a SWFA variable, but I don’t know what the deal is with them, they’re selling everything off and saying new things are coming, but without any updates or timeline, I’m moving on.

I’d LOVE to get a Nightforce, but I’m a dad with a family and saving up for one will take some time. I could say fuck it and buy one now, but that would mean no ammo budget and no shooting for a bit…that’s not an option, I’ve been really enjoying improving my skills with a rifle and view this hobby as therapy.

I just purchased a Arken EP5 5-25 based on the feature set and Japanese glass, but now I’m second guessing that decision based on some mixed reviews. It hasn’t shown up yet and I have 30 days to return it if it shows up and doesn’t seem like a good value with solid build quality. I’m normally not a Chinese scope guy, I owned multiple Leupold VX3 HD’s with the CDS turrets, but they just didn’t track well and drop tests even on the higher end models caused me to completely loose faith in those scopes. That led me to SWFA, although the glass is no where near the quality of my Leupold, I trust the scope in the field.

I’m really hoping the EP5 build quality is legit, but I’m open to additional suggestions.

Use: Hunting/Field matches/Local PRS (not looking to compete to be competitive, just improve skills)

Rifle:
Bergara B14 Wilderness 6.5 Creedmoor
Magpul Pro 700 Lite chassis

Wants:
Durable/reliable
FFP
Mil reticle/turrets
4-16 minimum, 5-25 maximum

Budget: $600’ish

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or feedback on the Arken quality for my use! I will ultimately save up/use next years bonus for a better scope, but I want to keep shooting, so simply saving up and not purchasing a place holder is not an option. Also…the SWFA 10x42 has already been donated to my daughters 22lr, so sticking with that is not an option either.

 

[Huskydriver]

I'm a euro glass snob ... Think you are going to like that Arken

@m1ajunkie console this man

 

[Todc]

Viper pst 2 3-15

 

[rdramsey8]

I'm a euro glass snob ... Think you are going to like that Arken

@m1ajunkie console this man

That’s really great to hear, I appreciate the response.

 

[rdramsey8]

Viper pst 2 3-15

Appreciate the response! Looks like the euro optic price on that scope is pretty damn close to the Nightforce SHV 4-16. Do you feel Ike the Viper PST competes well in the $800-$1000 category?

Having no experience with either scope, I’m inclined to lean towards the Nighforce SHV based on the companies reputation, but shit at the point I feel like I either need to be happy with that scope long-term or I need to suck it up and just get an NXS or NX8…and potentially a divorce, ha. I guess ultimately I feel like stretching my $600’ish budget too much for a place holder is a slippery slope.

 

[white_rushin]

If you hit up Otto from Steiner you should be able to get some very good deals on the T6xi

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Grab a Gen 2 razor from the classifieds here.

 

[rdramsey8]

Viper PST is out. At that price I’d prefer something not made in the Philippines. From listening to the podcast about optics with Frank and Jim, it sounds like the Philippine manufactures are not keeping up with even some of the Chinese scope manufactures. I’m sure it’s a fine scope, but for $1000 (eurooptic price), I think I’d spend a little more and get the Nighforce SHV.

The Steiner T6i looks awesome. I don’t know who Otto is, but he’d have to hook me up with a screamin deal to bring that scope into my price range. Again, I could pull the trigger on a badass long term scope, but that is going to hit my budget pretty hard this year and limit my shooting/ammo budget significantly.

Same as above goes for the Razor…in the first 10 pages of the PX I didn’t see a Razor for sale, but on ebay it looks like I’m looking at $1600-2k used.

If I stick around my $600 budget, I can shoot as much as I want and easily spend $2k December/January next year on glass. If I stretch that and spend $1k-$1200 on the SHV, that’ll hurt but I could still shoot a little and maybe buy a better scope a couple years from now. If I say fuck it and spend $1500-$2500 now there is no way I’ll be able to shoot even close to as often as I want to…basically I’d be limiting myself to a couple boxes of ammo before next hunting season and skipping putting in for limited quota tags this year.

 

[rdramsey8]

I hope my response doesn’t come across like I’m shitting on the suggestions so far…I really appreciate the input and advice. I’m just trying to clarify my situation (yes I’m a poor) and ask the community if high end glass is worth taking a year off from developing my skills. Thank you all for taking the time to respond and help me make this decision.

 

[Chickentoast]

PX for any Japanese glass - a Gen 1 Athlon Ares should hit your price point while you save for a used G2 Razor, and you should get most of your money back on the Athlon when you upgrade. You might be able to find a used US made XTR3 for close, and then you won't need to upgrade.

Re: your question above, no, it is much better to shoot more with "lesser" glass.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

be patient and you’ll have no problem grabbing a razor. It’s twice the quality of the rest of the scopes mentioned.

 

[rdramsey8]

PX for any Japanese glass - a Gen 1 Athlon Ares should hit your price point while you save for a used G2 Razor, and you should get most of your money back on the Athlon when you upgrade. You might be able to find a used US made XTR3 for close, and then you won't need to upgrade.

Re: your question above, no, it is much better to shoot more with "lesser" glass.

Thank you, this is very helpful. Do you think the Ares is enough of an improvement over the Arken to return the Arken and look for an Ares?

I’m looking around for an XTR3 now, do you think that scope would be a better built scope than the Nightforce SHV?

 

[Im2bent]

@gr8fuldoug may havesome input

 

[rdramsey8]

be patient and you’ll have no problem grabbing a razor. It’s twice the quality of the rest of the scopes mentioned.

I will definitely add the Razor to my list for my big purchase, I hadn’t given this scope much thought because Nightforce always gets so much love for durability (especially in the hunting community), but the Razor appears to be an extremely nice scope.

 

[rdramsey8]

Well maybe I gave up too soon…interesting that they posted this a day after I gave up waiting and ordered an Arken, ha

 

[smoothy8500]

posted this a day after I gave up waiting

We'll see if they actually have any of their HD scopes in the line-up....

 

[rdramsey8]

We'll see if they actually have any of their HD scopes in the line-up....

Good point. I feel like if they rolled out a Japanese made variable power FFP scope with HD glass, an updated reticle, zero stop, and better turret feel….and the same durability they’re known for, I’d have my answer.

 

[Kfive73]

Save and get what you really want when you have the funds. If you spend $600 now, in a few months you’ll say “damn I could have been $600 closer to what I really wanted”

 

[rdramsey8]

Save and get what you really want when you have the funds. If you spend $600 now, in a few months you’ll say “damn I could have been $600 closer to what I really wanted”

I definitely understand that…and I could just go for it and order a badass scope now, but this is also my only rifle and that would completely exhaust my training (ammo) budget and limited quota tag budget for the year. So basically I won’t be shooting at all and my hunting next season would be limited to a couple general tags. If I get a placeholder scope within my budget, I get to shoot all year (typically once a week or every other week) and I can put in for all the tags I hope to get drawn for next season…then I could get a rad scope beginning of next year.

 

[Im2bent]

You don't need alpha glass to get the job done, just like you don't need a lambo to get to where you're going.

 

[Kickin45]

For what you wanna do, the Arken will be more than adequate.

 

[Chickentoast]

Thank you, this is very helpful. Do you think the Ares is enough of an improvement over the Arken to return the Arken and look for an Ares?

I’m looking around for an XTR3 now, do you think that scope would be a better built scope than the Nightforce SHV?

No, Arken is probably fine, but Ares would be cheaper and you'd lose less on resale since it's already older. XTR3 is definitely better than SHV. I still have 2 of the US made 5-30's - they were the best value at the time, and still hold their own. There will be very few scenarios where better glass will get you on target where you would be lost with the XTR3. I had almost 5K yard visibility out of my last living room window, and bought all of the scopes to compare, including ZCO and TT. I now have my old XTR3's and 2 Razor G3's. If I got rid of my XTR3's, I'd probably try the Zeiss S3 as a newer contender for best value.

My favorite analogy: once you get to Japanese glass, you have a Corvette. The FOV of the XTR3 brings it up to, say, 911 Carrera S level. If you want better interior, fit and finish, or pretension, buy a GT3, Ferrari, etc. But if you are driving for laptimes, you are already 90-95% of the way to the top.

 

[FuhQ]

I’m currently running a SWFA 10x42, but I’d like to replace it with a variable. My number one priority is durability/reliability. I’d replace it with a SWFA variable, but I don’t know what the deal is with them, they’re selling everything off and saying new things are coming, but without any updates or timeline, I’m moving on.

I’d LOVE to get a Nightforce, but I’m a dad with a family and saving up for one will take some time. I could say fuck it and buy one now, but that would mean no ammo budget and no shooting for a bit…that’s not an option, I’ve been really enjoying improving my skills with a rifle and view this hobby as therapy.

I just purchased a Arken EP5 5-25 based on the feature set and Japanese glass, but now I’m second guessing that decision based on some mixed reviews. It hasn’t shown up yet and I have 30 days to return it if it shows up and doesn’t seem like a good value with solid build quality. I’m normally not a Chinese scope guy, I owned multiple Leupold VX3 HD’s with the CDS turrets, but they just didn’t track well and drop tests even on the higher end models caused me to completely loose faith in those scopes. That led me to SWFA, although the glass is no where near the quality of my Leupold, I trust the scope in the field.

I’m really hoping the EP5 build quality is legit, but I’m open to additional suggestions.

Use: Hunting/Field matches/Local PRS (not looking to compete to be competitive, just improve skills)

Rifle:
Bergara B14 Wilderness 6.5 Creedmoor
Magpul Pro 700 Lite chassis

Wants:
Durable/reliable
FFP
Mil reticle/turrets
4-16 minimum, 5-25 maximum

Budget: $600’ish

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or feedback on the Arken quality for my use! I will ultimately save up/use next years bonus for a better scope, but I want to keep shooting, so simply saving up and not purchasing a place holder is not an option. Also…the SWFA 10x42 has already been donated to my daughters 22lr, so sticking with that is not an option either.

Send the Arken back and get this... Made by the same OEM in China, but has been confirmed by them to have higher quality glass than the Arkens. I have had one for a few months, it's really impressive for the price. Several others on here have them, too. They were also impressed...Including Frank (@Lowlight ). I've had 5 Arkens, I'm down to 3 still, and working on whittling those down to none. You will not beat this scope for $600.

https://cameralandny.com/shop/brands/dnt-optics/dnt-optics-the-one-7-35x56-ffp-mrad-tor-theone-reticle-to7351tor/7e5bcf10-5cac-013d-d1be-00163ecd2826?variation=3855962&srsltid=AfmBOool4EAhvrFB0aPDmPsO88exL-DMDmQupJ4WYRSBzBag-UmovuI9

 

[FuhQ]

Good point. I feel like if they rolled out a Japanese made variable power FFP scope with HD glass, an updated reticle, zero stop, and better turret feel….and the same durability they’re known for, I’d have my answer.

Don't worry, they're not. Some information has already been leaked about their upcoming stuff. Same old bullshit. Which is why I got rid of all my SWFA scopes.

 

[TonyAngel]

I’m currently running a SWFA 10x42, but I’d like to replace it with a variable. My number one priority is durability/reliability. I’d replace it with a SWFA variable, but I don’t know what the deal is with them, they’re selling everything off and saying new things are coming, but without any updates or timeline, I’m moving on.

I’d LOVE to get a Nightforce, but I’m a dad with a family and saving up for one will take some time. I could say fuck it and buy one now, but that would mean no ammo budget and no shooting for a bit…that’s not an option, I’ve been really enjoying improving my skills with a rifle and view this hobby as therapy.

I just purchased a Arken EP5 5-25 based on the feature set and Japanese glass, but now I’m second guessing that decision based on some mixed reviews. It hasn’t shown up yet and I have 30 days to return it if it shows up and doesn’t seem like a good value with solid build quality. I’m normally not a Chinese scope guy, I owned multiple Leupold VX3 HD’s with the CDS turrets, but they just didn’t track well and drop tests even on the higher end models caused me to completely loose faith in those scopes. That led me to SWFA, although the glass is no where near the quality of my Leupold, I trust the scope in the field.

I’m really hoping the EP5 build quality is legit, but I’m open to additional suggestions.

Use: Hunting/Field matches/Local PRS (not looking to compete to be competitive, just improve skills)

Rifle:
Bergara B14 Wilderness 6.5 Creedmoor
Magpul Pro 700 Lite chassis

Wants:
Durable/reliable
FFP
Mil reticle/turrets
4-16 minimum, 5-25 maximum

Budget: $600’ish

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or feedback on the Arken quality for my use! I will ultimately save up/use next years bonus for a better scope, but I want to keep shooting, so simply saving up and not purchasing a place holder is not an option. Also…the SWFA 10x42 has already been donated to my daughters 22lr, so sticking with that is not an option either.

Bud, i know what it's like to be in a budget and the addage of buy once, cry once rings more true for some than it does for others.

My advise would be to slow down a bit. Truth is that any of the scopes that were mentioned would be better than that fixed power SWFA.

You've already ordered the Arken and you're already discounting it before you've even gotten it. You're also taking some good recommendations from people that have used the scopes they're recommending because of something you read on the internet or because this person or that person has one.

You really need to take everything you read in a review with a grain of salt. Showing a preference for one scope or another when considering scopes in the same price range, just because one is a particular brand or was manufactured in a particular place is going to leave you missing out on some good equipment.

Wait for the Arken and at least give it a shot. No, it isn't what I would choose, but i don't have your budget constraints. The Arkens have it where it counts. So far, they appear to be pretty tough, the turrets are accurate and the glass will more than get the job done. Save up for the big buy later. If you think good Japanese glass is where you want to be, wait till you get behind good European glass.

 

[m1ajunkie]

No need to worry about the Arken.... I love high end glass as much as anyone but after actually using Arken scopes they are my vote for an affordable optic. In my opinion they provide a solid/ durable scope that performs very well. I've shot darkens in several matches now and they have performed just fine. The low cost of entry for the Arken scopes means you take very little hit down the road when you decide to you might want to sell and upgrade, not something that all brands can say....

For reference I recently documented the performance of my 7-35 in an ELR match:

 

[rdramsey8]

Bud, i know what it's like to be in a budget and the addage of buy once, cry once rings more true for some than it does for others.

My advise would be to slow down a bit. Truth is that any of the scopes that were mentioned would be better than that fixed power SWFA.

You've already ordered the Arken and you're already discounting it before you've even gotten it. You're also taking some good recommendations from people that have used the scopes they're recommending because of something you read on the internet or because this person or that person has one.

You really need to take everything you read in a review with a grain of salt. Showing a preference for one scope or another when considering scopes in the same price range, just because one is a particular brand or was manufactured in a particular place is going to leave you missing out on some good equipment.

Wait for the Arken and at least give it a shot. No, it isn't what I would choose, but i don't have your budget constraints. The Arkens have it where it counts. So far, they appear to be pretty tough, the turrets are accurate and the glass will more than get the job done. Save up for the big buy later. If you think good Japanese glass is where you want to be, wait till you get behind good European glass.

This was really helpful advice and I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

 

[rdramsey8]

No need to worry about the Arken.... I love high end glass as much as anyone but after actually using Arken scopes they are my vote for an affordable optic. In my opinion they provide a solid/ durable scope that performs very well. I've shot darkens in several matches now and they have performed just fine. The low cost of entry for the Arken scopes means you take very little hit down the road when you decide to you might want to sell and upgrade, not something that all brands can say....

For reference I recently documented the performance of my 7-35 in an ELR match:

Ha! I actually watched a couple of your videos while looking for info on the Arken. Thanks for the response!

 

[rdramsey8]

Scope arrived today. By the time I got home from work and got it unboxed it was dark outside, so I have no opinion so far on the optical quality, but damn this thing sure feels robust. The feel of the turrets is so much better than my SWFA, honestly I don’t think I ever have any interest in dialing my 10x42 ever again. I’m looking forward to getting it outside tomorrow and looking through it. I think I just had to remind myself that right now I’m focusing on becoming a better rifleman…I’ll have top tier stuff one day, but the reality is I don’t know what I don’t know….i need to just keep getting out and using what I have so I can make solid decisions on what I’m looking for when the time comes to drop real money.

 

[rdramsey8]

Don't worry, they're not. Some information has already been leaked about their upcoming stuff. Same old bullshit. Which is why I got rid of all my SWFA scopes.

Man you weren’t kidding, the roll out of the gen 2 lineup did not get me fired up to buy another SWFA….actually the opposite happened, the Arken showed up and after a few minutes of messing with the turrets I realized there is no way I want to go back to dialing the mushy turrets on the SWFA regardless of its durability. I listed the SWFA and had it sold the next day.

 

[supercorndogs]

I giggle everytime I hear about swfa fixed power durability. Just because someone else said it's durable doesn't make it so. Holding up to basic use for a short time does not establish a record of durability either. Arkan having a track record of durability is even more laughable. If you want something durable and cheap. I see the xtr2 sell for the price of the Arkans all the time.

 

[rdramsey8]

Update:

I made a quick trip to the range to zero the Arken. Fired 10 rounds and made one adjustment. Rifle has been commuting to work with me all week (about 150 miles/day). No rifle case, just a stone glacier scope cover and a rifle sock laying on the back seat. I’ll check zero tomorrow on my way home and make sure everything still looks good. I also took my rifle with the scope mounted to my wife’s vet clinic to get a weight…little chunky for a hunting rifle, but honestly not that bad. I may end up getting a Grayboe Trekker to swap out the chassis for during hunting season.

 

[rdramsey8]

I giggle everytime I hear about swfa fixed power durability. Just because someone else said it's durable doesn't make it so. Holding up to basic use for a short time does not establish a record of durability either. Arkan having a track record of durability is even more laughable. If you want something durable and cheap. I see the xtr2 sell for the price of the Arkans all the time.

I’ve had 3 SWFA fixed 10’s and from my personal experience they are very durable. All were used on backcountry hunting rifles and never babied. All held zero and dialed perfectly. I’ve only moved on due to wanting a different feature set and now realizing that the feel of the turrets on the SWFA scopes are awful. SWFA fixed scopes have also been a top performer of the rokslide drop tests. I don’t think their reasonable durability should be a question from my personal experience.

We’ll see on the Arken, it definitely has a robust feel. It’s not a forever scope for me, just something to keep me shooting while I save and decide what I want to live on the rifle long term.

 

[supercorndogs]

A robust feel. Well sure it's big and heavy.

Both are absolutely nothing special in the durability category.

Both are absolutely nothing special in the tracking category.

The swfa boast some of the worst exposed turrets I have ever put my fingers on. Worse than Millet, worse than a 230 dollar Athlon.

We have seen lots of broken arkan threads. Arkan is the most aggressively shilled scope I have seen. To me Athlon has offerings at the same price point that are better products with better track records as well as Burris.

If any of them are good enough is up to the person who buys it. And people effectively use all of them. What arkan is doing, is what swfa should have done. Thier fixed power "updates" were an absolute waste of time and money.

 

[rdramsey8]

A robust feel. Well sure it's big and heavy.

Both are absolutely nothing special in the durability category.

Both are absolutely nothing special in the tracking category.

The swfa boast some of the worst exposed turrets I have ever put my fingers on. Worse than Millet, worse than a 230 dollar Athlon.

We have seen lots of broken arkan threads. Arkan is the most aggressively shilled scope I have seen. To me Athlon has offerings at the same price point that are better products with better track records as well as Burris.

If any of them are good enough is up to the person who buys it. And people effectively use all of them. What arkan is doing, is what swfa should have done. Thier fixed power "updates" were an absolute waste of time and money.

Yeah…I didn’t say a robust feel meant that it was durable/reliable, it was just an observation. Thanks for the input.

 

[diggler1833]

Update:

I made a quick trip to the range to zero the Arken. Fired 10 rounds and made one adjustment. Rifle has been commuting to work with me all week (about 150 miles/day). No rifle case, just a stone glacier scope cover and a rifle sock laying on the back seat. I’ll check zero tomorrow on my way home and make sure everything still looks good. I also took my rifle with the scope mounted to my wife’s vet clinic to get a weight…little chunky for a hunting rifle, but honestly not that bad. I may end up getting a Grayboe Trekker to swap out the chassis for during hunting season.

View attachment 8561165
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Wait... your wife has a vet clinic too?

The casual use and zero retention test for an optic over time is a great idea. I don't baby my stuff here at the ranch, but I'm not abusive towards it either. I still have a few 'outdated' optics that I keep on rifles because they don't let me down after days bumping around in a SxS or in the truck.

 

[rdramsey8]

Wait... your wife has a vet clinic too?

The casual use and zero retention test for an optic over time is a great idea. I don't baby my stuff here at the ranch, but I'm not abusive towards it either. I still have a few 'outdated' optics that I keep on rifles because they don't let me down after days bumping around in a SxS or in the truck.

Ha yep, gotta love free x-rays!

For sure. I’m not looking to find my equipments failure point, but I do need to know that it can handle being taken out and used, because at the end of the day that’s why I own it. I live in a state where rifles are tools and get driven just like a truck. No mall crawlers around here, haha.