New test rifle, *update with chrono numbers*

Hateca

Hateca

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Aug 12, 2004
    1,569
    89
    Henderson NV
    #1
    What you’re looking at is a test bed rifle that has been in the works for a little while. This is the first one to be built to see how it would function. The main reason for the test was to see if AI AW double stack mags would work reliable with a custom ordered action with no changes to the mag or action.

    The rifle was built using a Phoenix Machine RR action that had some changes done at my request. The main change was to cut the action to feed from the AW mag. The action will also feed from the AICS mag, so both can be used in the same rifle.

    Future actions will be on the Phoenix Machine action with one piece bolt with the same changes that were done with the RR action.

    As for the rifle in the pic, it utilizes the serial number one GUARDIAN action utilizing the changes I wanted. Bartlein varmint weight barrel cut to 18” from the lug. Seekins base and recoil lug combo. Surefire suppressor adapter. Manners carbon fiber stock with KMW hardware. Stock was given new grip texture and paint. Badger DBM utilizing both AW and AICS mags.

    The new one piece bolt and action will be used in an up and coming signture rifle. Stay tuned.

    I want to thank Glen and Lisa at Phoenix Machine for all their help with getting this action done.

    RR action with AW mag. With this mag COL is right around 2.955 with no alteration to the mag or action.
    AW2.jpg

    RR action with AICS mag with the AW sitting next to it. With the AICS COL will depend if the front plate is removed but no alterations are needed to the action to get max length from the mag.
    AW4.jpg

    Test rifle
    AW3.jpg

    AW1.jpg


     
    #3
    Re: New test rifle

    Sweet !!

    Let us know if you experience any feeding issues. Do both AICS and AW mags lock in well with no rattles? Can the AICS mag be pushed upward with the bolt open letting it interfere or get loose?

    Tell us more!
     
    #4
    Re: New test rifle

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sweet !!

    Let us know if you experience any feeding issues. Do both AICS and AW mags lock in well with no rattles? Can the AICS mag be pushed upward with the bolt open letting it interfere or get loose?

    Tell us more! </div></div>

    There are no feeding issues, this was worked out prior to the rifle being built. Neither mag will push up with the bolt open.

    Someone also asked if this action would drop into an AICS chassis and feed from the AW mag. Yes it does, like a champ.
     
    #7
    Re: New test rifle

    I saw this one first hand and all I can say is WOW, everything is first rate, Randy's been working on this for the last couple of years just to make it right... he took is time and it was worth it!!!
     
    #11
    Re: New test rifle

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pure sex. When is it available? </div></div>

    The final version of the action is done. The stocks that are going to be used are McMillan A5's and A3’s with KMW cheek hardware. That right now is the hold up, McMillan’s long wait.

    The above rifle was just a test bed and built for my use (I may sell it later
    grin.gif
    ).

    The final version will use a MTU Bartlein barrel cut to any length. The rifle will have a set of fixed specs but a rifle utilizing the action could be ordered and built to your specs.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: superde</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.308? </div></div>

    Yes the one above is .308 but the signature rifle will first be available in any caliber for the short action using the .308 bolt head.
     
    #12
    Re: New test rifle

    Can somebody explain to me why M14/M1A magazines are any less desirable for DM rigs?

    They are available from many sources in 5, 10, 20, and 30rd versions, seem to be more readily available, and less costly.

    Unless there's a mechanical reason where their configuration causes problems, I don't understand why they're not a more popular choice.

    Greg

    PS, I really admire this particular piece of design and production work, it's a true example of practical elegance.
     
    #15
    Re: New test rifle

    Greg,
    I can't find my chart now with the measurements I made on actual magazines but as I recall the M-14 magazines (and AR-10) are wider at the top, in the feed lips area. This would require more of the Rem 700 action feed rails to be removed in order for the magazine to be placed high enough to feed. The round position is also very wide while in the feeding position in the magazine requiring a wide, meticulusly scuplted feed ramp in the barrel/action. $0.02.
     
    #19
    Re: New test rifle

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can somebody explain to me why M14/M1A magazines are any less desirable for DM rigs?</div></div>

    2.850" Maximum COAL.
     
    #20
    Re: New test rifle

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can somebody explain to me why M14/M1A magazines are any less desirable for DM rigs?

    </div></div>

    Because a lot more of the action needs to be removed. The follower in the mag needs to be altered or replaced with something else like an AR-10 follower. The biggest issue was there were too many different manufactures of M1A mags that the specs varied wildly for use in a bolt gun. Worked fine in the M1A just not the bolt gun. I think now it just comes down to there are better mouse traps available with less hassle.
     
    #21
    Re: New test rifle

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The final version will use a MTU Bartlein barrel cut to any length.</div></div>

    Overall, it is just about perfect. I say "just about perfect" because I think your test rifle got it right, Remington varmint contour barrel yields a very handy rifle.
     
    #22
    Re: New test rifle

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The final version will use a MTU Bartlein barrel cut to any length.</div></div>

    Overall, it is just about perfect. I say "just about perfect" because I think your test rifle got it right, Remington varmint contour barrel yields a very handy rifle. </div></div>

    I agree!!
     
    #23
    Re: New test rifle

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luvman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The final version will use a MTU Bartlein barrel cut to any length.</div></div>

    Overall, it is just about perfect. I say "just about perfect" because I think your test rifle got it right, Remington varmint contour barrel yields a very handy rifle. </div></div>

    I agree!! </div></div>

    +2
     
    #25
    Re: New test rifle

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The final version will use a MTU Bartlein barrel cut to any length.</div></div>

    Overall, it is just about perfect. I say "just about perfect" because I think your test rifle got it right, Remington varmint contour barrel yields a very handy rifle. </div></div>

    Well then I might have to offer it with that barrel as well.
     
    #28
    Re: New test rifle

    +1 what everyone else said in terms of this being an awesome signature rifle! I like the MTU profile for bench, but I agree with others that the varmint profile will be a great additional offering as well. A barreled action build later would be lovely...
    laugh.gif
     
    #29
    Re: New test rifle

    Here is an update.

    Went to the range today to get chrono numbers out of the 18” barrel. I used only factory ammo, Federal 168 match, and BH 175 match. I didn’t really set out to shoot groups, set out just get numbers so I wasn’t really trying real hard and I didn’t take the camera with me. But posted is two five shot groups with Federal that I scanned just for giggles.

    Mounted one of my USO’s on the rifle. Total weight as you see it is 14 lbs. Rifle feeds like a champ with the AW mag.

    Fired 15 rounds of Federal and 10 of BH. The groups in the pic are Federal. I have never had good luck with BH and I don’t normally use it. Today was no exception, the 10 shots I took were over an inch for five shots. It could be just the lot of ammo but like I said never had any luck with it in any rifle so take it for what it’s worth. I took the BH with the 175 bullet today just for the chrono numbers.

    The chrono was 10 feet from the muzzle.

    Conditions: Temp 78, Pressure 29, Humidity 44%, Wind calm, Elevation 2500’.

    Average for Federal 168 for 10 shots was 2622.0 FPS

    Average for BH 175 for 10 shots was 2537.9 FPS

    AW5.jpg

    18inchrifle-1-1.jpg

     
    #31
    Re: New test rifle

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackinfl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Randy,
    Nice looking rifle. Is this a tight bore Bartlein delivering those numbers?
    Thanks,
    Jack </div></div>

    Yes, Bartlein .298 bore with my match reamer.
     
    #34
    Re: New test rifle

    Thats AWESOME Randy, Very SWEET !!! . . . Great to see everything come together. Really like the action Randy. New Bolt Handle looks great, kinda like the original R&D Precision "HateCA" Tact. knob.

    Have a great one,
    FTK
     
    #36
    Re: New test rifle

    WooHoo! I got Serial#001 Guardian.
    Range review:
    I didn't have time to make up the load test for this particular rifle, so I took some hunting loads I had sitting around to see how this shoots.
    Load data:
    Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tips
    44 grn of RL-15
    Winchester 1x fired brass (FL sized and trimed)
    WLR Primers
    OAL 2.8
    Elivation: 1404 ft
    Humidity:30%
    Temp: 102 F
    Wind: less than 5mph
    Did not Chrono but book said around 2800fps

    With these hunting loads, the rifle average .4-.7 MOA, I was hoping 1 MOA as these were not meant for precision shooting and I wanted the brass to fire form to this rifle.
    Well shooting kinda got boring, I start shooting at the Steel targets: out to 500 yards, still pretty boring. It started getting challenging at the 600yrd range. Unfortunately, 600 yrds is the farthest for this range.

    Well going to start loading, I plan on using the 155grn Palma Match.
    Start out with RL-15 at 43.6gr and work up to 44.8gr
    Will keep posted.

    FYI, Guardian Serial#002 is completed, you can see it on Randy's sight
     
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