New to Rifles/Marksmanship

[nugentjr87]

Hello all,

I am new to the site and generally new to firearms. I grew up plinking with my dad's rifles and not much more than that. Recently I have found myself wanting to get more and more into it... Started by going with some friends and coworkers to shoot their pistols at a local range. I ended up buying a S&W M&P compact and later getting my conceal and carry. Then I moved to getting my Beretta shotgun and shooting sporting clays.

I am at the point now were I would also like to purchase a rifle. This rifle would be mainly for target shooting. I have been reading over the site for a couple days and think maybe some of the info is for more advanced users than myself. I would, however, like to get to this point in the future.

I guess my question is... what would be your advice to someone wanting to get into long range shooting but having pretty much no experience?

Before coming on the site I had planned to pick up a bolt action in a .308, a scope, bipod, and head to a nearby range to start practicing the techniques covered on here. It seems that I may be getting ahead of myself and should take a different route? From what I have researched I think the .308 is what I want, but some posts suggest for beginners to start with a 22lr and work their way up.

Thank you in advance and I appreciate the wealth of knowledge on this site and the willing to help others like myself.

-Jon

 

[jbailey]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

I would spend about the next week reading posts in this board before you spend any money. Then maybe sign up for the videos here. And only then buy something. 308 or 223 great spots to start. Focus on fundamentals first and last. Good luck!

 

[redirt78]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

Welcome to the Hide.

I posted this yesterday for a guy with roughly the same type of thread you just posted. Take from it what you need. I will post a link to his thread, there may be more help for you there.
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I say really learn to shoot your rifle to it's/your full potential. Once you get better through proper techniques then you will be able to go from there.

There are so many ways you could go but it would be nice to have an idea of what your gun might need. Not all guns come out of the box equal, some shoot lights out and some don't. You can get a new trigger, better scope, float the barrel, get the action bedded, get the action trued, get the barrel re crowned etc etc.

I'd say its better to hone your skills, if the gun is a shooter then you can do upgrades like aftermarket trigger or stock. If its not then look at rebarrel and action truing or new gun altogether.

Learn to really shoot first, it could save money in the long run. You can try dot drills where you have multiple quarter sized targets at 100 yards and try to put one bullet in the center of each one. These drills will tell you a lot about what you can do or need to work on. Let an experienced shooter try your gun for a five shot group or a dot drill, that could tell you a lot about your gun.
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Here you go. This should help some but I highly recommend the Sniper'sHide online training membership. It will be a huge help, their teaching is straight forward, easy to understand and makes perfect sense when you watch it. They are also not out to sell anything but proven knowledge.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Consistant Position, followthrough, make sure your ballance, Shoulder pressure, cheekweld everything!!!!!!! is consistant shot to shot. </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Another thought: Focus on the 90° angle in your first finger joint, addressing the trigger 1/2 way between tip and second joint, and pressing that trigger straight through the buttstock into your shoulder! </div></div>

Online training teasers

SHOOTING A SEMI AUTO-JACOB FROM R.O.

TRIGGER SCHOOL

STRAIGHT BACK-BEHIND THE RIFLE

LOADING THE BIPOD



<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">There are a lot more but that will get you started... (get the membership)</span>


Hope this helps, good luck.
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<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">NEW TO THE HIDE THREAD</span> <--LINK

 

[Topstrap]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

You have two nice ranges here in Ohio.

http://www.raynersrange.com/ , 200 to 1000 yards steel plates. 4th Sunday of each month starting in February.

http://thundervalleyprecision.com/ , 100 to 1 mile steel plates and various types of matches. They shoot about every weekend year round.

Plan to visit them this summer, some of us get together thru the week or on weekends at Rayners. You're welcome to join just to watch and ask questions and also shoot any of our guns you'd like to try before you buy Observers are always welcome at the matches. You'll learn more in one of two of those sessions from those that do compete and shoot the matches than months of reading and studying on your own. I've never subscribed to the training courses the Hide offers but for a new shooter starting out with no idea on where to start they should be very helpful. Tom Rayner is thinking of having long range 22 rimfire matches this summer out to probably 400 yards. If you have a 22 already that might be a good place to learn good technique and how to shoot varying distance targets with changing wind conditions then step up to centerfire.

Your budget will help dictate what you should start with, personally I feel any of the Savages and particularly the 260LRP mod 12 is a good start but even a 223 or 308 will work great. Decent scope will work and you can upgrade as funds or interest allows. The second link under my name is a video clip of some shooters at one of Rayners matches. This one shows how the targets look from the shooters positions. You're more than welcome to join us when we are there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwE70ihOYIk&context=C34d0ef5ADOEgsToPDskKJwSgS9dsXkZkYziY1owPz

Topstrap

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

Enter the United States Army Marksmanship Unit's rifle phase of their Small Arms Firing School. This two day event is held annually during the National Trophy Championships at Camp Perry, just down the street from where you live.

 

[nugentjr87]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

Some great advice, thank you all! Redirt the videos posted were great. I am an engineer so I love a technical approach to something. If the videos from the membership are similar then I think I will buy!

Topstrap, I was looking into Thunder Valley and I want to make a trip out there. It is about 3 hours away from me though so I look into Camp Perry which is much closer. I was thinking of doing this when I have a little more experience? There is a range within 30min from my place that has a 100 yd, 200 yd, 300 yd, and 500 yd called Sandusky County Sportsmen Club. I just moved so I don't know anyone in the area but I am going to contact them soon about checking the facility out, and membership.

After some reading.. and some thinking... I am going to pick up a .308. I have been looking at different rifles for awhile now and have driven it down to two... I think:

The Remington 700 LSS or Savage 12 BVSS. Seems like there is much debate on which is more accurate out of the box, leaning towards the Savage a little more. I think the Remingtons look much better. As a beginner, would I see much difference in these rifles if I prefer the looks of the Remington? Or will both rifles "out shoot me"?

And I could be way off basis on these two rifles. I am looking for something in a .308, wood laminate, and accurate out of the box. Once I feel more comfortable I probably would look at making adjustments to the rifle then, or picking up another to tinker with.

Getting very excited! I was speaking with a guy at Jaquas (local gun store) and he said, "Looking at guns and doing the research is the best part of buying a gun. Actually purchasing it can almost be the anti-climax. But then you go and shoot it."

Thanks again for the comments.

-Nuge

 

[redirt78]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

I'm on my girlfriends cell but will post what I would suggest when I'm on a computer.

Tell us your total budget for gun and scope or if you have a starter scope already what is it?

I have other guns and shoot custom hand loads in them but once I joined here I decided to get a 308 so I could practice a lot more because of all the good factory ammo I can shoot for less money. There are also tools like the fdac ballistic solver with good info for 308. There are things I would have done different had I had the money. I probably would have gone straight to my manners stock with mini chassis instead of getting a bell and Carlson first etc etc...

I'll post more tomorrow if I can help, I'm sure others will too.

 

[George63]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

instead of burning that 308 on fundamentals, go to an appleseed shoot or 2 using a 22, you can check for loaners by contacting the shoot boss of the event, this was last years locations, might be more this year:

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=19400.0

feel free to PM me for ?? or assistance

 

[redirt78]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

Sorry, I forgot the part about fairly new to rifles other than plinking with your dad. George63 is right, hard to get any better cheap practice and experience than with a 22.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

Small Arms Firing School at Camp Perry is for beginners, like you. You don't need to bring anything except perhaps some sun screen. The USAMU will issue a rifle and ammunition. You will learn the fundamentals from the best shooters on the planet. This is a big event. Last year about 700 folks participated. You will be given individual instruction in a small group of 10.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Enter the United States Army Marksmanship Unit's rifle phase of their Small Arms Firing School. This two day event is held annually during the National Trophy Championships at Camp Perry, just down the street from where you live. </div></div>

^^^^ do this!

 

[sled_mack]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

Before you buy something with a laminated stock, ask around here more about them. Maybe over on the bolt action section. My understanding is that while they are better than a straight wood stock, they are still not as consistent as a synthetic stock over varying weather conditions.

And I would second the vote for getting a 22. You can learn a lot about dialing, holding, and wind shooting out to 200 or 300 yards.

If you want to get a centerfire, nothing wrong with a .308. It will force you to learn wind at distance. Good ammo is available cheap, and if you want to start hand loading it's a pretty easy cartridge to learn on.

Good luck!

 

[nugentjr87]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

My budget is keeping it under $1000. I don't really have an interest in getting a 22 unless it would be important for building basic skills.

Was looking at Leupold scopes. Is a 3x9-40 the right scope to be looking at?

-nuge

 

[Shoot 1st]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

join the army/marines.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

My opinion, long range translates to shooting distances where the trajectory has some significant height to it. Now that's going to vary quite a bit, depending on the rifle. You can achieve that arc without needing to be shooting way out in the deep boonies if you do it with a modest chambering. For most of us, that means the .22lr. It has the additional benefit of being pretty cheap.

I don't think the rimfire/centefire question has an either/or answer. I also don't think a beginner needs to be getting all wrapped around the axle about premium equipment. The real keys are simplicty and reliability.

I like basic bolt action rimfire rifles. Save the bells and whistles for later down the road.

The same can be said for centerfire rifles. I'd suggest a .223 for a first centerfire. A relatively basic and straightforward varmint rifle is a good place to start.

Save the bigger bucks for once you know more about your own abilities, and maybe after you've had some opportunities to try out a friend's more specialized, more premium rifle. Never buy a feature you haven't tried out pretty thoroughly; at least enough to know whether it'll actually improve your personal performance.

Understanding how to make iron sights work for you is a useful skill. It might even be essential, but only you can make that decision.

Optics need to be effective. That does not mean pricey. You need to see your bullet holes to tell how well you're doing. Beyond that is up to you; but if you must err, do it on the side that favors being able to shoot more, rather than less, and sooner, rather than later.

Mounts need to be substantial enough to stand up to a realistic share of your kind of treatment. If you toss your rifle around, they need to be robust. If you don't, they don't either.

Recognize that there are very few people who have both taught themselves how to shoot, and done it well, too. Locate and take advantage of folks who have been down the road you're facing. You can probably find a lot of them right here.

Competition is a pretty good teacher, but it can also lead to plateauing and discouragement.

When you bite off stuff to chew, take human bites. Treat yourelf to the benefit of achievable goals.

Greg

 

[proneshooter]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

Once you get comfortable with a CF rifle, Washtenaw Sporstmens Club in Ann Arbor MI is WELL worth the drive.

Their NRA mid range prone/F class matches at 600 yds are great trigger pulling time to work on the fundamentals. Unlike Sandusky, you get near instant accurate feedback when you shoot on an NRA bullseye target that someone pulls and marks for you.

Having shot steel and NRA matches for several years, steel is a lot of fun, but of not much use other than a binary hit/miss indication. With bullseye targets, you get to find out just how far you are from dead center for every shot in both windage and elevation. Such feedback over the course of a 20 to 60 round match tends to build up a really strong base that you can carry over into other, more practical scenarios.

 

[farrier]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

Jon,
Call Jamie Dodson at Wolf Precision in Johnstown, Pa. He offers 3 day precision long range shooting clinics. I've watched him take total newbies and turn them into good shooters with excellent basics by the end of his class.
Mike

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

Competition is not a particularly good place to learn how to shoot. It serves primarily as a device to reward shooters who practice.

Marksmanship for LR is identical to marksmanship for less distant targets. However, since angular error increases with distance, LR does serve to show to those who think they know how to do it that they may not actually know anything about it. The point is, you don't need LR to learn marksmanship, yet, if your marksmanship training did not emphasize the elements and factors of a steady position, you'll be hard pressed to get the results that proper training makes possible at LR.

Finally, you can learn everything there is to know about good shooting with a 22 rifle fitted with peep sights, an M1 sling, shooting mat, and spotting scope. With this equipment you'll discover that marksmanship is all about discipline. You may also discover that you do not have the sort of discipline or interest required to become a really good shot, so instead of putting time into it, you may be tempted to put money into it with the expectation that with good equipment you can shoot with the best. Of course, this is an unrealistic expectation. There's no substitute for practice. Equipment and the fascination with it all will not get you there. Unfortunately, today everyone wants to get everything instantly, instant coffee, fast food, drive-up banking, and now, instant marksmanship.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Enter the United States Army Marksmanship Unit's rifle phase of their Small Arms Firing School. This two day event is held annually during the National Trophy Championships at Camp Perry, just down the street from where you live.</div></div>

As SS said you're "down the street from Perry. For others in the same boat, the SAFS's are also conducted at the Eastern & Western Games (NC and AZ).

You'll not find a better starting point.

If you can't make the Games, don't discount the CMP GSM Clinics, not as good as the SAFS's but they will get you started and they're scattered all over the country.

As SS, it doen't take money and fancy equipment, its the software (training and hard work) not the hardware (fancy high price equipment).

Hard work gets you there quicker.

 

[George63]

Re: New to Rifles/Marksmanship

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">, and now, instant marksmanship. </div></div>

the saying is: the target tells no lies, basically those widely scattered holes make an instant reality check for those that anticipated instant skills