Night Vision Newb looking for clip-on advice and info

[JMo22]

Hello fellow Hiders, as the title suggests, I am new to the world of thermal and am looking for information and advice. Here are my main questions:

1. I can't seem to find any sort of organized breakdown of what makes a magnified optic clip-on compatible, just that some are and some aren't. What is the criteria there?
2. What makes a thermal clip-on compatible? Are all thermals compatible as long as the magnified optic is compatible?
3. Being that a thermal scope is just a small screen, how does zeroing work? Do you turn off the reticle in the thermal and just use the magnified optic reticle? Do you have to re-zero through the thermal every time you put it on?
4. Being that you are aiming at a screen, does co-witnessing mount height matter as long as the optic is zeroed to the thermal screen image?
5. Are there magnification limits, upper and lower, and what are they based on?
6. Feel free to offer any unsolicited advice that may be helpful.

Thanks!

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Do a search for thermal here. This has been discussed several times recently.

 

[JMo22]

Do a search for thermal here. This has been discussed several times recently.

Thank you for the very unhelpful response. I did search and didn't find what I was looking for, which is why I posted my own thread. Next time just keep scrolling if you're not going to be helpful or provide a link to something relevant.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Here are four threads, I have pictures and posts in some that should answer your questions along with good information from others as well. If you have more questions ask, but here is a good start.

Thermal clip on for nx8 4-32

Good evening, gents. I see a lot of videos, reviews, and marketing ploy for thermal clip-ons in front of LPVOs. Does anyone have experience with them in front of higher base magnification optics? Are there any that are clear up to, say, 10x optical prior to the thermal unit? Basically, if I...

www.snipershide.com

Night Vision - Basic Thermal Clip ON Q's.

Hey guys, I've got some basic questions that my google fu is weak on. I'm just going to go ahead and list my questions in no particular order. Any help would be appreciated. These questions are only applicable to Thermal as that is what I am interested in. 1. Do you need an illuminated...

www.snipershide.com

Thermal Clip on/Rifle scope role swap question

Greetings, This is my first time posting and I'm new to forums, so if I inadvertently break some rule let me know. My question is as follows I just invested in a thermal clip on, Infiray RICO Micro V2 640. I would like to use it as a primary optic for my AR, considering it's 4x zoom is...

www.snipershide.com

Night Vision - Help understanding non-prisim thermal clip on magnification

@koshkin @wigwamitus or anyone else who understands this stuff - can you explain how any of the lower end (non-Risley prisim) thermal clip ons work with their base magnification not being 1x/unity? I see that the Armasight Jockey 640 is actually a 1x thermal, so by my understanding it would work...

www.snipershide.com

 

[CoryT]

Hello fellow Hiders, as the title suggests, I am new to the world of thermal and am looking for information and advice. Here are my main questions:

1. I can't seem to find any sort of organized breakdown of what makes a magnified optic clip-on compatible, just that some are and some aren't. What is the criteria there?
2. What makes a thermal clip-on compatible? Are all thermals compatible as long as the magnified optic is compatible?
3. Being that a thermal scope is just a small screen, how does zeroing work? Do you turn off the reticle in the thermal and just use the magnified optic reticle? Do you have to re-zero through the thermal every time you put it on?
4. Being that you are aiming at a screen, does co-witnessing mount height matter as long as the optic is zeroed to the thermal screen image?
5. Are there magnification limits, upper and lower, and what are they based on?
6. Feel free to offer any unsolicited advice that may be helpful.

Thanks!

1 Day optics are compatible in that the magnification range must work with the selected thermal device and mount high is within range.
2 For a thermal to act as a clip-on device, it must have a true 1:1 output mode and either a lens system ot screen alignment mode to get a boresight zero.
3 Normally a dual more thermal device will have the reticle turned off in clip-on mode.
4 Mount height CAN be an issue, to be safe, get as close to matching centerlines as possible.
5 Magnification is limited by the resolution of the output screen on the thermal device and the amount of pixelization, reducing the ability to identify the target. Somewhat user dependent.

 

[JMo22]

1 Day optics are compatible in that the magnification range must work with the selected thermal device and mount high is within range.
2 For a thermal to act as a clip-on device, it must have a true 1:1 output mode and either a lens system ot screen alignment mode to get a boresight zero.
3 Normally a dual more thermal device will have the reticle turned off in clip-on mode.
4 Mount height CAN be an issue, to be safe, get as close to matching centerlines as possible.
5 Magnification is limited by the resolution of the output screen on the thermal device and the amount of pixelization, reducing the ability to identify the target. Somewhat user dependent.

What makes a thermal unit clip-on compatible? I have an AGM Rattler and they say that it is standalone only but I can't find anything that specifies what makes it so. Is it only related to collimation abilities within the thermal to align with the optic image? It's crazy that it's this cumbersome to know what will work and what won't considering how much these units can cost. It almost feels like compatibility is arbitrary since I can't find any technical requirements or specs anywhere. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.

 

[Evolution 9]

It is marketed as stand alone only, so why do you say it’s hard to know if it will work? If it’s not designed for clip-on use, it won’t work (at least not remotely well) as a clip-on. Seems pretty straightforward.

No- it’s not arbitrary. Your inability to find the information means you have an inability. It doesn’t mean the thermal industry arbitrarily assigns some units as clip-on capable and some not

I LOVE helping new guys understand thermals and especially clip-ons, but your attitude blows. I suggest a little more research, and a little humble pie expressed towards OldManWithGun (who was absolutely correct and helpful in both posts).

Hopefully the 10 or so consummate experts here will wait until you do that before spoon feeding you any more information.

 

[Dogtown]

For a a clip-on device (NV or Thermal) you generally need some demagnification built into the device - the more demag, the higher useable optical magnification possible (simplifying a bit). The problem is if when you start putting demag into a device, it becomes less useable as a handheld or helmet mounted device. That's part of the problem with thermals that are claimed to be multipurpose ("It's a clip-on; it's a scanner; it's an HMT"). There's no free lunch with this stuff, so across the board most devices that are good as HMT or scanners suck at being clip-ons.

A good thermal clip-on will have some optical demag and a display that can be aligned. I've already explained why the demag is important, but the alignment is vital too because that helps collimate the device to your optic.

Standalone devices have some built in magnification like 2.5x or 3.5x, so obviously they can't be used as clip-ons either. Some will have 0.5x digital zoom that sort of acts as demag, but it's not comparable.

 

[JMo22]

It is marketed as stand alone only, so why do you say it’s hard to know if it will work? If it’s not designed for clip-on use, it won’t work (at least not remotely well) as a clip-on. Seems pretty straightforward.

No- it’s not arbitrary. Your inability to find the information means you have an inability. It doesn’t mean the thermal industry arbitrarily assigns some units as clip-on capable and some not

I LOVE helping new guys understand thermals and especially clip-ons, but your attitude blows. I suggest a little more research, and a little humble pie expressed towards OldManWithGun (who was absolutely correct and helpful in both posts).

Hopefully the 10 or so consummate experts here will wait until you do that before spoon feeding you any more information.

Aww do you feel better now big guy? How much research is enough, exactly? Telling someone to go look elsewhere when they've asked a question is just douchey gatekeeping and not helpful in any way. If you had any reading comprehension skills, and less arrogance, you'd know I'm saying I can't find what features makes a unit clip-on compatible, not whether or not the manufacturer has stated such. I didn't say it is arbitrary, I said it seems that way because of how cumbersome it can be to find clear technical data. People like you are the worst thing about this hobby.

 

[Dogtown]

 

[JMo22]

Please, oh great and noble @Evolution 9 , what is the magical amount of research one must do before asking the supposedly welcoming community for their input? I would really hate to squander your wealth of ultimate knowledge in the future.

Oh, and let me know where you'd like for me to send the Hooked on Phonics set so you can learn to comprehend words properly before getting your man panties in such a bunch.

 

[carbonbased]

 

[CoryT]

Please, oh great and noble @Evolution 9 , what is the magical amount of research one must do before asking the supposedly welcoming community for their input? I would really hate to squander your wealth of ultimate knowledge in the future.

Oh, and let me know where you'd like for me to send the Hooked on Phonics set so you can learn to comprehend words properly before getting your man panties in such a bunch.

One can generally rely on the manufacturer saying it has a clip on mode. If they don't, it does not. As stated, they need to be 1:1 at 1x, and have some way to align the screen.

 

[Evolution 9]

Found a thread with lots of great info for you, OP.

wtf is with the gatekeeping?

I can't remember how many times I've seen myself or others post a question to a forum (here and elsewhere) and the responses generally tend to be some form of "you didn't satisfy my completely subjective and arbitrary requirements for figuring this out on your own so instead of being helpful I'm...

www.snipershide.com

 

[tekmann2377]

Aww do you feel better now big guy? How much research is enough, exactly? Telling someone to go look elsewhere when they've asked a question is just douchey gatekeeping and not helpful in any way. If you had any reading comprehension skills, and less arrogance, you'd know I'm saying I can't find what features makes a unit clip-on compatible, not whether or not the manufacturer has stated such. I didn't say it is arbitrary, I said it seems that way because of how cumbersome it can be to find clear technical data. People like you are the worst thing about this hobby.

It isn't gatekeeping or whatever Gen Z word you would like to assign to this perceived slight. You just didn't bother to do ANY research on your own and expect to be spoon fed. If you will just trust whatever someone tells you WITHOUT doing your research then you are the dumb one for not researching and verifying before a hugely expensive purchase.

When I decided to get a clip-on, I did a some reading. This addressed literally every question you originally had without bothering anyone or opening a new redundant thread.

Actually demanding, needy people like you are the worst about this hobby.

 

[Dogtown]

Nah, the worst is the crazy people.

 

[JMo22]

It isn't gatekeeping or whatever Gen Z word you would like to assign to this perceived slight. You just didn't bother to do ANY research on your own and expect to be spoon fed. If you will just trust whatever someone tells you WITHOUT doing your research then you are the dumb one for not researching and verifying before a hugely expensive purchase.

When I decided to get a clip-on, I did a some reading. This addressed literally every question you originally had without bothering anyone or opening a new redundant thread.

Actually demanding, needy people like you are the worst about this hobby.

Dude, just shut up. You have no idea how much research I've done on anything and you're just trying to be part of the cool kid circle jerk. I didn't say I wanted to use my thermal as a clip on, did I? No, I asked what technical specs separate a standalone from a clip on because I'd like to understand the tech better since the manufacturer info I've found is all marketing and not technical in nature. The internet is a very vast place and sometimes it's beneficial to ask a community rather than spend my life on Google. People on here just can't seem to shut their egos off long enough to actually understand the questions being asked. You all just run in thumping your chests thinking you have the ultimate knowledge on these things and others have to earn some sort of access, rather than being informative and welcoming. So yeah, fuck off. There are worse things in life than a redundant thread that you can simply ignore.

 

[Evolution 9]

Actually, it’s very obvious to us how much research you did (or didn’t) do.

But that’s not the real issue here, and it’s not why you just got dragged for 4 pages in the other thread. Most of them don’t care if you did your own research or not.

Your primary problem here (and it is definitely hampering success in all other areas of your life) is your extremely poor attitude.

One of the very first requirements before learning can take place is humility. Currently you have nearly zero. That’s why 4-5 pages have failed to teach you anything so far.

We’ve all been there. Just don’t stay there.

 

[JMo22]

Actually, it’s very obvious to us how much research you did (or didn’t) do.

But that’s not the real issue here, and it’s not why you just got dragged for 4 pages in the other thread. Most of them don’t care if you did your own research or not.

Your primary problem here (and it is definitely hampering success in all other areas of your life) is your extremely poor attitude.

One of the very first requirements before learning can take place is humility. Currently you have nearly zero. That’s why 4-5 pages have failed to teach you anything so far.

We’ve all been there. Just don’t stay there.

Funny you talk of humility when you obviously have none. Your unfounded arrogance has nothing to do with my attitude. Also a bunch of man babies posting dumb memes and circle jerking each other isn't indicative of anything other than your rampant immaturity and need to feel included with your internet friends. Providing a condescending non-answer is a waste of everybody's time. Sorry I missed the one corner of the internet which outlines technical specifications for what makes an optic/thermal compatible with each other in technical terms. Not finding what I am looking for in a handful of posts doesn't mean I haven't tried looking. Now kindly fuck off.

 

[Krob95]

Are you looking for a mil or moa compatible clip on?

 

[JMo22]

Are you looking for a mil or moa compatible clip on?

IPHY only

 

[Krob95]

may try a pvs14 for iphy

 

[carbonbased]

Huh, banned already

 

[96coal449]

View attachment 8628474

View attachment 8628472

Huh, banned already

Wasn't worth the entertainment, I guess.

 

[carbonbased]

Wasn't worth the entertainment, I guess.

Such a pleasant fellow. I shall invite him to my next sherry-tasting event.