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Newbe. Can 80 gr SMK'S be loaded for an AR mag?
- Thread starter danb303
- Start date
No, neither can the 75gr AMAX, some of the longer Bergers, the 80gr Nosler Custom Competition bullets, nor the 90gr class.
The 77gr SMKs and the 75gr Hornady HPBT bullets, can be safely loaded to mag length.
Chris
The 77gr SMKs and the 75gr Hornady HPBT bullets, can be safely loaded to mag length.
Chris
You can shove them into mag length.. They fit in there, Ive done it, but the bullet is so long that you could cause an overpressure issue and they dont really like that much jump. I mocked one up and found it worked, then called Berger.. They advised against it. I never shot one that way.
If you want to try it, you most certainly can, just start 10% below the published starting loads and look for pressure signs.
as above - yes it is possible/ no it is not a good idea - the main question is: why would you want to when there are many projectiles (already mentioned ) with practically identical performance that are well suited for magazine feeding
According to my Sierra V manual, for AR-15s and the 80gr SMK, their recommended COAL/length is 2.550", so no, it's not adviseable to load to mag length.
Because somebody does something and gets away with it, doesn't mean that it's prudent.
2.550" is a long way away from 2.260", which is the mag length that most AR-15 mags will accomodate.
The case mouth will be well beyond the bullet's ogive, if you try seating to mag length, to the point that there will be amost 'no' neck tension on the bullet.
Chris
Because somebody does something and gets away with it, doesn't mean that it's prudent.
2.550" is a long way away from 2.260", which is the mag length that most AR-15 mags will accomodate.
The case mouth will be well beyond the bullet's ogive, if you try seating to mag length, to the point that there will be amost 'no' neck tension on the bullet.
Chris
I just got a reloader and bought some 80 gr Sierras I have about 15 loaded up but they just don't look right. That is why I started trying to research. I'm glad I asked now because I was going to shoot them today. I guess I can buy a bullet puller now. I didn't have a Sierra book to look at. Thanks
Yeah, not knocking you Dan, but a lot of new reloaders are hitting the boards and wanting to take on some more advanced stuff, but don't really have a foundation yet, regarding the basics.
There are always shortcuts to take and some of them are time savers and pay off in spades, but one needs to have a basic grasp of why that shortcut works and the other one doesn't.
If one experimented enough and had multiple weapons to potentially 'blow up', while experimenting, one could get AA#2 to work in a 338LM, but most of us aren't going to go that route, so stick with what the reloading manuals tell you, at least in the beginning.
You should have a couple/few manuals to cross reference, as one guy's HOT load is another guy's MEDIUM load.
If Sierra could get them to work safely in an AR-15 magazine, don't you think that they'd publish that data? It's more bullets sold for them.
Follow the money.
Chris
I don't have a Sierra book so I couldn't check but I knew from the way it looked that 2.25 was too short for that bullet. Thanks for all the advice!
BTW
I have a Rem 700 sps tactical .223 with the 20" barrel and 1 / 12 twist
And a RRA AR with a 24" 1 / 7 twist barrel.
Anyone have any good starting points for loads?
I have some 55 Amax some 55 gr Sierra game kings and those 80 gr
I also have some 50 gr Noslers on the way along with some other 50-55 gr bullets.
I need some 69 SMK'S
BTW
I have a Rem 700 sps tactical .223 with the 20" barrel and 1 / 12 twist
And a RRA AR with a 24" 1 / 7 twist barrel.
Anyone have any good starting points for loads?
I have some 55 Amax some 55 gr Sierra game kings and those 80 gr
I also have some 50 gr Noslers on the way along with some other 50-55 gr bullets.
I need some 69 SMK'S
You can shoot the 80gr SMKs in a AR-15, you just have to single load them.
I've shot 80s in my 1:7" Bushy 20" .gov profile upper.
Pull them, load them long and shoot them in you AR if you have the twist. 1:8", or 1:7", only.
Don't bother with your Rem M-700 and the 80s, you'll get sideways hitting bullets.
80gr SMKs at 25 yards through a 1:12" twist out of the 22-250.
Chris
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This^^^^^
I will try to be careful with my words so as not to bruise tender vaginas, as is so often accredited to my brash admonitions.
Plug and play, and learn as you read it on the internet is a great fad, and apparently quite popular among the new crop of reloaders, circa- 2008-present. There is a lot of learning the "how" with not enough learning of the "why".
I operate an incinerator for a living. I work with several people who know how to make changes in settings, reduce or increase airflow, gas flow,sludge flow, etc but only a couple understand "why" they are doing what they do. In a nutshell doing the job well and proper, without chasing your tail fro 12 hours is an art, not a science.
You can go to the local art store and obtain a paint-by-numbers of the Mona Lisa. You can paint the picture because you have instructions on "how", it is quite simple. You know how without learning the "why". You never had to learn the foundations of the art, such as brush selection, color manipulation etc etc. You have no foundation to build on, so you can't learn to be an artist painting by the numbers.
In reloading if you don't have a good foundation, every time you have a problem you will be back on the internet asking a new simple question. Some are easily answered through simple troubleshooting. If you don't have a good foundation that comes from reading great info that almost all loading manuals contain, then you can't trobleshoot properly. You have in effect mastered the how without the why.
Lets look at the why.
Why do you never see 80gr ammo offered for the AR15? Why is the maximum cartridge length for 223 listed at 2.26"? If you had a loading manual you would have found out quickly "why" an 80gr SMK cannot be loaded in an AR15 magazine. "Why" do they make a 77gr SMK and also an 80gr SMK? Why are these two bullets so much different than the other?
Shooting 80gr SMK bullets in an AR15 is a very common thing in High Power competition, but the cartridge is never loaded in the magazine. This is common knowledge to folks who have done their homework. Everything that is worth learning requires homework, it can be accomplished without a single internet post.
Hope I didn't come off with an attitude because I certainly don't have one in this case.
This is an old post but I’m finding the 80 SMK can be loaded to 2.250… It does just catch the Ogive… 1.087 is the length of the 80 smk… .987 is the 77 smk that I have…
I seat the 77s to 2.230 so case capacity when these bullets are loaded is very close…
My load shows no pressure running 2620 fps…
Yes there is a lot of jump but I was pleasantly surprised with the accuracy in my rifle being exceptional…
If your rifle can shoot it accurately enjoy the benefits of better wind calls…
I seat the 77s to 2.230 so case capacity when these bullets are loaded is very close…
My load shows no pressure running 2620 fps…
Yes there is a lot of jump but I was pleasantly surprised with the accuracy in my rifle being exceptional…
If your rifle can shoot it accurately enjoy the benefits of better wind calls…
1st post.
Necromancy.
Good for you. Load up those 80s any way you want.
We will be watching you.
So I wanted to wait until I tested the 80 smk thoroughly before I posted more results… I have a JP 16” upper with the wydle chamber 8 twist…
This is the 100 yard 5 shot group that got my attention…
The load is 23.6 H4895 with the 80 smk seated to 2.250”
It chronographed with my magneto speed suppressed at 2620 average with and SD of 13 with Lake City brass and federal 205m primers…
I have an area of BLM land 10 minutes from my house that I can set up steel to 1850 yards…
I trued the load with my kestrel at 800 yards to 2600 fps.
1st round hits on 6” diamonds at 300, 400, 1st round hits on 8” rounds at 500, 600… 600 I did a follow up shot to see how it grouped… 700 first round hit on a 12” plate with a follow up to see how it grouped … I passed up 800 because I already trued out to that plate… 918 yards first round hit on a 11”x20 ipsc…
I have a 8”x9” plate at 1026 yards… took five shots but I hit it… Then I was curious…
I had a 11”x20 at 1240 yards …. The DA that day was 7500 feet… 5 shots and on the 5 th IMPACT! The others were close and predictable… That bullet reminds me of the 185 juggernaut that I run in the 308 to shoot the mile…
I just finished a match today at the Darkhorse training center in NM…
It was a loosely based NRL style but they let me use the AR…
I thought the match was only going to be to 800… Once I got to the last stages there was targets at 940, 1k , 1040, and 1097…
It’s so hard to see little 22 impacts at the 1040 and 1097… Dropped points with no calls… Just not sure with a those tiny pills…
I had the course almost cleaned till then…
Bled some points but hit enough to secure 3 rd place against 6 ARC bolt gun and a 6.5 PRC… wind wasn’t bad and the DA was 8500 today…
Zero malfunctions with over 100 rounds…
Primer pockets are good…
So long story short now lol if your AR can handle the jump of the 80 smk seated to mag length do it!
It’s breaths new life into the 223 and brings it supersonic to 1k and beyond depending on your altitude…
And it’s an advantage in the wind over the 77 smks
This is the 100 yard 5 shot group that got my attention…
The load is 23.6 H4895 with the 80 smk seated to 2.250”
It chronographed with my magneto speed suppressed at 2620 average with and SD of 13 with Lake City brass and federal 205m primers…
I have an area of BLM land 10 minutes from my house that I can set up steel to 1850 yards…
I trued the load with my kestrel at 800 yards to 2600 fps.
1st round hits on 6” diamonds at 300, 400, 1st round hits on 8” rounds at 500, 600… 600 I did a follow up shot to see how it grouped… 700 first round hit on a 12” plate with a follow up to see how it grouped … I passed up 800 because I already trued out to that plate… 918 yards first round hit on a 11”x20 ipsc…
I have a 8”x9” plate at 1026 yards… took five shots but I hit it… Then I was curious…
I had a 11”x20 at 1240 yards …. The DA that day was 7500 feet… 5 shots and on the 5 th IMPACT! The others were close and predictable… That bullet reminds me of the 185 juggernaut that I run in the 308 to shoot the mile…
I just finished a match today at the Darkhorse training center in NM…
It was a loosely based NRL style but they let me use the AR…
I thought the match was only going to be to 800… Once I got to the last stages there was targets at 940, 1k , 1040, and 1097…
It’s so hard to see little 22 impacts at the 1040 and 1097… Dropped points with no calls… Just not sure with a those tiny pills…
I had the course almost cleaned till then…
Bled some points but hit enough to secure 3 rd place against 6 ARC bolt gun and a 6.5 PRC… wind wasn’t bad and the DA was 8500 today…
Zero malfunctions with over 100 rounds…
Primer pockets are good…
So long story short now lol if your AR can handle the jump of the 80 smk seated to mag length do it!
It’s breaths new life into the 223 and brings it supersonic to 1k and beyond depending on your altitude…
And it’s an advantage in the wind over the 77 smks
Attachments
Do you not understand that the ammo you loaded is mechanically incorrect?
The 80 smk is loaded .080 deeper in the case then my 77 load…
I understand what you are trying to say…
I worked my way up… This is load in these cases works safely for me…
The jam fit for the 77 smk in my chamber is 2.515” I load it to mag length at 2.230… Very consistent load… the jump the bullet is doing is .285” to the rifling
The 80 smk oal jam fit in my chamber is 2.525” and loaded to 2.250”
The jump to engage rifling is .275 “
Less than the 77s
Most people find they can’t get the velocity they need with this setup… I’ve lost a little case capacity… and dropped the powder charge accordingly…
Most of the time you can’t get the velocity or accuracy needed for this setup to work…
I may have a very rare setup that works…
My plan was to shoot the 80 smk single shot like the high power shooters to reach to 1 k and beyond…
Once I did the measurements I decided to try it…
And now I’m sharing the info is all…
We all load at our own risk…
I understand what you are trying to say…
I worked my way up… This is load in these cases works safely for me…
The jam fit for the 77 smk in my chamber is 2.515” I load it to mag length at 2.230… Very consistent load… the jump the bullet is doing is .285” to the rifling
The 80 smk oal jam fit in my chamber is 2.525” and loaded to 2.250”
The jump to engage rifling is .275 “
Less than the 77s
Most people find they can’t get the velocity they need with this setup… I’ve lost a little case capacity… and dropped the powder charge accordingly…
Most of the time you can’t get the velocity or accuracy needed for this setup to work…
I may have a very rare setup that works…
My plan was to shoot the 80 smk single shot like the high power shooters to reach to 1 k and beyond…
Once I did the measurements I decided to try it…
And now I’m sharing the info is all…
We all load at our own risk…
Go read the last paragraph in post 5.
Your picture is a perfect example of what it describes.
He doesn’t care because the compressed powder column is holding the bullet in place and the crimp is stopping the bullet from sliding out, lol!
Those do not look like the 80gr SMKs I have. Mine look like needles.
I've loaded 80SMKs to mag length to prove a point in these "post by retard" threads.
Sierra must have changed their bullet, or that's not an 80SMK.
Holy crap it just dawned on me why the case mouth isn't gaping. You put a massive crimp on it didn't you.
I mean....I've not really read your long diatribes, being brand Fling new and all.
Congrats Einstein, you've reinvented the wheel.
Good luck with your "Reloading for Retards" youtube channel.
Just another reminder what you are dealing with here. Ten year old thread guys.
I mean....I've not really read your long diatribes, being brand Fling new and all.
Congrats Einstein, you've reinvented the wheel.
Good luck with your "Reloading for Retards" youtube channel.
Just another reminder what you are dealing with here. Ten year old thread guys.
There are three ways:
1. Cut a slot out of the front of the magazine. This allows you to load the bullet out slightly longer, but still deeper than you would for single-loading through the port. From a prior thread:
www.snipershide.com
2. Get a long-discontinued dedicated Long Range Products magazine. This had a follower and lips that loaded the cartridge diagonally in the magazine box (vice in-line for a straight-in feed). I don't remember exactly, but the cartridges may also have sat in the magazine as a single stack.
3. Find Hornady 82-grainers. These were a Fin, Feather, and Fur (out of Ohio) exclusive they sold only at Camp Perry on Commercial Row during the National Matches. These offered a long-heavy 5.56 bullet for standard magazine loading.
1. Cut a slot out of the front of the magazine. This allows you to load the bullet out slightly longer, but still deeper than you would for single-loading through the port. From a prior thread:
Longest internal length AR mags
What would be the magazine with the longest allowable case length for the AR15 platform? Bought a couple ASC mags that advertise 2.316” of internal length but all I could get in them was 2.270” with a 77gr Berger. Any insight would be helpful. Thanks.
www.snipershide.com
2. Get a long-discontinued dedicated Long Range Products magazine. This had a follower and lips that loaded the cartridge diagonally in the magazine box (vice in-line for a straight-in feed). I don't remember exactly, but the cartridges may also have sat in the magazine as a single stack.
3. Find Hornady 82-grainers. These were a Fin, Feather, and Fur (out of Ohio) exclusive they sold only at Camp Perry on Commercial Row during the National Matches. These offered a long-heavy 5.56 bullet for standard magazine loading.
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Maybe I’m lucky with the batch of 03 LC cases or the 8# lot of H4895 I’m using…the compression is ever so slight and I put less of a crimp than the 77s…
I just wanted to put things out there…
This setup is safe for me… Didn’t even have to adjust the gas block… Kicks the brass in a nice pile at 3:00…
I just wanted to put things out there…
This setup is safe for me… Didn’t even have to adjust the gas block… Kicks the brass in a nice pile at 3:00…
The density altitude where you shoot helps a lot. My long-range BLM spots in Utah were around 5500 feet.
You might squeeze a little more velocity over your 4895 loads (without compressing and crunching since you're seating deeper) with 8208, N135, or N540.
Tipped Match Kings may also help, though my experience has only been with 69 TMKs.
You might squeeze a little more velocity over your 4895 loads (without compressing and crunching since you're seating deeper) with 8208, N135, or N540.
Tipped Match Kings may also help, though my experience has only been with 69 TMKs.
And what’s gonna happen when the bullet gets completely pushed in during feeding because you have only one third of the neck holding on to it?
It works for him. Leave him alone. Everyone is free to do their own thing and load bullets any way they want to.
I cant believe this guy didn't show up in the bear pit first.
Agreed I’m blessed with the higher DAs with where I live… I haven’t run the numbers at lower to see where transonic and subsonic hit…
All this R and D has been to shoot steel safari type matches and looking for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow advantage…
I’m probably a little older than a lot of guys here… I was getting set in my ways on old information…
Eric Cortina and his podcasts really humbled me and opened my eyes to trying to stay with the times and sharing… It helps us all…
There are huge leaps and bounds through the years with long range shooting… The first starting with Litz…
But to place third overall score in a match with mostly 6.5 class setups…
I shot as a team with a gentlemen running a nicely setup 6.5 PRC … He beat me by a point to take second overall…
We won as a team which was awesome….
I’m sure if the winds had been nasty it would have been a whole different outcome but I would have done my best with the kestrel and making good wind calls… A 22 pill is not as forgiving as a 6.5…
Normally I would have taken the 6 gt impact/Bartlein build I have… I wanted to really put that load through its paces…
All this R and D has been to shoot steel safari type matches and looking for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow advantage…
I’m probably a little older than a lot of guys here… I was getting set in my ways on old information…
Eric Cortina and his podcasts really humbled me and opened my eyes to trying to stay with the times and sharing… It helps us all…
There are huge leaps and bounds through the years with long range shooting… The first starting with Litz…
But to place third overall score in a match with mostly 6.5 class setups…
I shot as a team with a gentlemen running a nicely setup 6.5 PRC … He beat me by a point to take second overall…
We won as a team which was awesome….
I’m sure if the winds had been nasty it would have been a whole different outcome but I would have done my best with the kestrel and making good wind calls… A 22 pill is not as forgiving as a 6.5…
Normally I would have taken the 6 gt impact/Bartlein build I have… I wanted to really put that load through its paces…
The bullet catches the ogive 918v…
So there is the whole shank of the bullet being held by the neck…
I lightly crimp for the AR… if I used this in a bolt gun I wouldn’t crimp…
So there is the whole shank of the bullet being held by the neck…
I lightly crimp for the AR… if I used this in a bolt gun I wouldn’t crimp…
No I will not. People need to see and understand how this is unsafe.
Wrong. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
The ogjive is below the case mouth at mag length with the 80smk in the 223. Everyone knows this. It might not look it to you, but it is.
Its not just below, its way below...the ones I loaded were, but the 80SMKs i have were made about 15 years ago. Has the bullet been changed in 15 years?
This is a made up account, for someone to get their jellies.
The 80SMK ogive is deep in the mouth of a case at mag length.
I've been through 5 phones since this thread was started. If I hadn't, id show some pictures too.
