Newbie looking for first precision rifle advice

[Mauser4me]

Hey there guys, so I’m a newbie to precision shooting but long time milsurp collector and casual Saturday bench rest 100 yard shooter. I’m looking to switch my gun hobby from collecting to long range shooting though. To me, long range is like hitting a torso size target at 1000 yards.

So, I have been doing some shopping around and the Christensen BA Tactical caught my eye. Thing is I’ve deiscovered the company has a mixed reputation and from what I’ve read maybe overpriced for the quality they deliver. What are your guys’ thoughts on those? Or is there a good alternate? I am looking for something tactical-ish, detachable mag, threaded muzzle, and to be straight honest, good-looking. I’m open to alternate rifles. I don’t want to build a rifle at this point, and especially since this is my first rifle and who knows I may end up not liking long distance for some reason and not want to go too far down the rabbit hole.

The next thing is caliber. I do not have a reloading setup, and am a few years away from having one, so I would like to stick to factory load ammunition (this availability and price are big factors). I wanted a 338 lapua until I realized they’re $4-$6 per shot. Then I leaned towards 308 win until I came to understand that while very available, it is essentially outdated and there are more flat-shooting rounds available like 6.5 creedmor (my current leaning). I would also like to use the rifle for occasional hunting so definitely no 22 caliber rounds. But what do you guys think?

Lastly, I have some questions on optics, but should I post that on another sub-forum/section? Not sure how stringent the rules are with multiple topics in one thread are here.

Any input and advice is greatly appreciated. I don’t have friends into serious shooting nor did I grow up in an area with many rifle enthusiasts or even family that shot. So thank you thank you!

 

[rlsmith1]

Budget is probably good to nail down and don’t forget to include your optic in the overall costs.

Fortunately, there’s a lot of rifles out there that will do what you’re looking for so it may come down to personal preference. I’m not as up to date on the Christensen Arms stuff but I had a Ruger Precision Rifle (6 Creed) that was very accurate. I spent my money on a scope (Mark 5 5-25) and was very happy with that combo. I took it to 1400 on steel with factory Hornady ammo. All things considered it was a great budget gun with a mid tier scope (very capable).

If you’re looking to hunt then the 6.5 Creed is probably a good choice especially if you will be shooting volume.

I never looked at the Tikka’s much but have heard good things about them.

I would definitely make sure you have a good scope even if you spend a little less on the rifle

 

[Mauser4me]

The scope I was thinking to get is the Trijicon RS-50 5-50X56mm. It seems pretty up to the task and seems well reviewed from the articles I’ve read.

 

[ma smith]

Start with a proper shooting budget, not just a rifle. The rifle just delivers the ammo to the targets. You need the ammo to send downrange, and the glass, the rifle altogether...

 

[Mauser4me]

Well I have to start the build somewhere and the rifle is the first piece.. figure the BA Tactical for the price range: $2000-$3000

 

[wpeach1912]

For entry level rifles with a decent budget:
Bergara HMR or Tikka CTR in 6.5 creed
Burris XTR 3 or Athlon Cronus
Harris or atlas bipod
Some dedicated rear bag
Rangefinder
Lots of ammo

Get something that’s decent quality and let’s you go shoot and learn. Learning is more valuable than a nice rifle. I’m certain people are going to recommend building one, but the components listed are the easy button. You could do 6 creed too. Just understand what you’re gaining and losing

 

[wpeach1912]

Well I have to start the build somewhere and the rifle is the first piece.. figure the BA Tactical for the price range: $2000-$3000

I would stay away from Christensen. If you’re wanting to spend that much, build a custom rifle

 

[Baron23]

Hey there guys, so I’m a newbie to precision shooting but long time milsurp collector and casual Saturday bench rest 100 yard shooter. I’m looking to switch my gun hobby from collecting to long range shooting though. To me, long range is like hitting a torso size target at 1000 yards.

So, I have been doing some shopping around and the Christensen BA Tactical caught my eye. Thing is I’ve deiscovered the company has a mixed reputation and from what I’ve read maybe overpriced for the quality they deliver. What are your guys’ thoughts on those? Or is there a good alternate? I am looking for something tactical-ish, detachable mag, threaded muzzle, and to be straight honest, good-looking. I’m open to alternate rifles. I don’t want to build a rifle at this point, and especially since this is my first rifle and who knows I may end up not liking long distance for some reason and not want to go too far down the rabbit hole.

The next thing is caliber. I do not have a reloading setup, and am a few years away from having one, so I would like to stick to factory load ammunition (this availability and price are big factors). I wanted a 338 lapua until I realized they’re $4-$6 per shot. Then I leaned towards 308 win until I came to understand that while very available, it is essentially outdated and there are more flat-shooting rounds available like 6.5 creedmor (my current leaning). I would also like to use the rifle for occasional hunting so definitely no 22 caliber rounds. But what do you guys think?

Lastly, I have some questions on optics, but should I post that on another sub-forum/section? Not sure how stringent the rules are with multiple topics in one thread are here.

Any input and advice is greatly appreciated. I don’t have friends into serious shooting nor did I grow up in an area with many rifle enthusiasts or even family that shot. So thank you thank you!

One friend has a Christensen and likes it but his buddy has a Seekins and if looking for a good qual factory gun you may want to look at them. I think it’s a more solid option.

And I support your interest in 6.5 CM. Yeah, a lot of jokes get flung around about it but it’s a wonderful cartridge and since your not going to compete (right?) and not going to be fire forming for wildcats it should serve you well and I think it’s strong enough to hunt white tails and the like.

The first recommendation wrt to optics that I received was to spend more on the glass than the rifle. That may be an exaggeration but you get the idea.

Many others here are far more expert than I so take my input w a grain of salt.

Cheers.

 

[KnowNothing256]

That's a lot of zoom for 1000 yard steel, or hunting to boot. Most find scopes in the 5-25x range to be very appropriate for the kinds of shooting you're describing.

Another vote for the Seekins Havak HIT, hard to beat that feature set at that price and haven't heard anyone be mad about theirs. If you go the Bergara route, you need to skip right over the HMR and get the HMR Pro. The HMR has some issues that are obnoxious and are almost entirely resolved with the Pro version. However, be warned that aftermarket barrels for the B14 action are less simple than other actions; the Havak can work with prefits, but the B14 actions can't.

 

[acudaowner]

pick up a gun you like in a caliber you can afford without loosing sleep over ( am I going to have to starve a month to afford it ) . And one you can get a lot more of ammo or supplies can be hard to find and yelling bang and ding are not as much fun yelled as made from shooting . Take a couple classes enjoy it even more learn what you can get better . best of luck

 

[Buzzinga]

Well I have to start the build somewhere and the rifle is the first piece.. figure the BA Tactical for the price range: $2000-$3000

Honestly brother, I'd start with the glass and work back from there. It is arguably one of the most important and expensive components of the whole system. It will also likely move with you from rifle to rifle as you progress.

 

[Chickentoast]

Find a rifle in the PX here. Scoped and full turn-key setups often come up as well. PX is the way to go until you figure out what you really want and why. You will likely go through a few rifles / setups until you figure out what works best for you. Don't be cheap with your optics - should be looking at Japanese glass with your budget. Many threads on the currents favorites for all price tiers in the optics section though.

 

[Average guy]

Seekins Havak Hit.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Man you can find an origin with a 6.5cm barrel on here and be under your budget and have pre fit barrels. Stick a origin BA in a krg bravo and have a rifle that will do anything you want it to and be able to use pre fit barrels. That's what I'd do. Then get the very best glass you can afford. A used ZP5 or a used 525i is the best bang for your buck imo.

 

[smokeandmetal207]

Bergara HMR with a Bushnell Elite on top. 6.5 Creedmoor with factory 143 match. Sub 2K all in and a very good package. There are prefits for the bergara rounded bolt face now. Toss in a triggertech diamond, a stockpad, atlas bipod with the picatinny bipod rail, a good brake, case of ammo and you're still under $3k

 

[Simonsza1]

American rifle company nucleus complete rifle. Right in your budget and it is fantastic right out of the box, no need to do anything to it. Great action, great chassis, great trigger and a good barrel in 6.5 creed.

 

[Oryx_Official]

I'm going to deviate from your current line of thinking for a couple of reasons. For a pretty reasonable price, you can buy a Defiance Tenacity, put on a prefit barrel yourself, add a Trigger tech diamond (also easy) and drop it in an Oryx chassis (or something else) for about $2300. With the prefit barrels you can have a heavy profile for long range and then swap out a lighter one for hunting. Since a lot of people are recommending X rifle and then swapping a bunch of stuff anyways you may as well start just buying something that will carry you a long ways. The Remington 700 footprint of the action will let you change chassis if you want to go heavier for PRS later or lighten into a hunting stock or chassis while using the same action.

Even though you said you weren't interested, I actually highly recommend a .223/5.56 for someone getting into long-range. Ammo is just so cheap you can afford to go out and figure it out. Barrel life is great too. Good factory ammo will actually let you stack impacts at 500-700 yards.

For shooting long distances, you'll need to figure out a way to chronograph any caliber you shoot. You'll also need a Kestrel or other weather station and then either the AB app or the program loaded onto your Kestrel or rangefinder, etc. Without your muzzle velocity and environmental data, you're going to be spending a lot of time and ammo trying to figure out your correct holds. It's much more fun getting hits right away.

I've been running a Vortex Venom 5-25x. For $700 they're great scopes. I was shooting 700yards with .223 and could clearly see where my impacts were on a steel target. You'll need to pair it with a canting bipod and a bubble level for your scope to work as a system.

Taking a class in long range shooting is also going to help you reduce the amount of time you're going to be spending figuring things out. If you're near VA, Riflemans Path is awesome to sort out all the little things you're possibly doing wrong.

 

[Mauser4me]

Dang a lot of good info here, thanks guys. Have to say it’s getting a bit overwhelming though. What I can gather is to first buy a scope and then choose a rifle after. The Seekins Havak Hit is a bit more tactical looking that I’d like; looking for something a bit more conventional looking. Am hoping to avoid having a rifle built for the moment just because I’ve been through many gunsmiths in my years collecting and most of the time it was a bad experience. Few competent ones out there IMO.

Looking into scopes more, everything I read says get something with 25x (ish) magnification, and anything more is overkill. It seems the more magnification means less MOA adjustment, and vice versa. Is that correct? Because if it wasn’t I wouldn’t see why not to get get the max magnification?

 

[Chickentoast]

Dang a lot of good info here, thanks guys. Have to say it’s getting a bit overwhelming though. What I can gather is to first buy a scope and then choose a rifle after. The Seekins Havak Hit is a bit more tactical looking that I’d like; looking for something a bit more conventional looking. Am hoping to avoid having a rifle built for the moment just because I’ve been through many gunsmiths in my years collecting and most of the time it was a bad experience. Few competent ones out there IMO.

Looking into scopes more, everything I read says get something with 25x (ish) magnification, and anything more is overkill. It seems the more magnification means less MOA adjustment, and vice versa. Is that correct? Because if it wasn’t I wouldn’t see why not to get get the max magnification?

This is why I recommended the PX - you aren't going to fully understand the answers given until you experience it for yourself. Until you live with short ones, long ones, fat ones, skinny ones, you won't really know the pros and cons for you. If you can shoot ~0.5 moa at 100, you can already hit at 1K, so don't make it harder than it is. It's more about how much money you waste while figuring out what you like best, rather than what you must have in order to be proficient and have good results at 1K. Get something that won't lose you (much) money if/when you re-sell it. Do that 2-3 times and then you'll know exactly what you want.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Looking into scopes more, everything I read says get something with 25x (ish) magnification, and anything more is overkill. It seems the more magnification means less MOA adjustment, and vice versa. Is that correct? Because if it wasn’t I wouldn’t see why not to get get the max magnification?

Good image at high mag is very difficult (expensive) to achieve. If you’re looking at a 50x scope and it doesn’t cost a pretty penny, you’re compromising image quality for a feature you don’t need for your goal. Optics, like many things, are a give and take; @koshkin has extensive info here and on YouTube (Dark Lord of Optics) that discusses a lot of this. But in short, for ringing an IPSC at 1k, you’ll get your best money’s worth at the 25x range, although the new G3 Razor is also a very good value. Consider picking up a Gen2 Razor (4.5-27x) here used, they’re routinely available around $1700 and sometimes cheaper (don’t forget to factor in cost of rings).

 

[308pirate]

Am hoping to avoid having a rifle built for the moment

Nobody is suggesting that you have a rifle built. What people are suggesting is that you buy a top shelf "custom" action that takes pre-fit barrels and screw the barrel on yourself. Then drop the barreled action in a chassis inletted for it and bolt it in. Then attach the scope with the rings of your choice to the picatinny rail on top of the receiver.

 

[Oryx_Official]

buy a top shelf "custom" action that takes pre-fit barrels and screw the barrel on yourself.

Guy speaks truth. You don't need a gunsmith these days to bolt together these "custom" rifles. There's videos on youtube about how easy it is to install a prefit barrel on an action. Everything (trigger, action, barrels, scope mounts) just bolts together on a work bench at home with a couple of tools.

 

[Mauser4me]

Oh interesting. I just looked into the prefit barrels and yeah it's pretty straight forward. Gosh. So many avenues into starting the hobby. Have to say though, even though they can be assembled at home, I'd feel safer getting my feet wet with a factory rifle. Once I know what I want and get more experience I could get particular with building one piece by piece. For now it seems I should hunt for a scope. The Vortex Razor HD Gen 3, 6-36x56 looks good to me. Thing is, this early on, it's hard to tell what's a quality scope even. I can look for big price tags and assume quality but reading the scope descriptions between a $500 and $4000 scope seem very similar. What are some no-compromise features you MUST have for a scope to perform when shooting at 1000 yards? I read the forum post on buying a new optic but it was so long I can't retain it all. Just wondering some bullet-point items; 'don't buy a scope with/without THIS feature'.

 

[Chickentoast]

Oh interesting. I just looked into the prefit barrels and yeah it's pretty straight forward. Gosh. So many avenues into starting the hobby. Have to say though, even though they can be assembled at home, I'd feel safer getting my feet wet with a factory rifle. Once I know what I want and get more experience I could get particular with building one piece by piece. For now it seems I should hunt for a scope. The Vortex Razor HD Gen 3, 6-36x56 looks good to me. Thing is, this early on, it's hard to tell what's a quality scope even. I can look for big price tags and assume quality but reading the scope descriptions between a $500 and $4000 scope seem very similar. What are some no-compromise features you MUST have for a scope to perform when shooting at 1000 yards? I read the forum post on buying a new optic but it was so long I can't retain it all. Just wondering some bullet-point items; 'don't buy a scope with/without THIS feature'.

I've tried a bunch because I was in your shoes a few years ago. The Razor G3 is my current favorite scope for a bench rifle (heavy). XTR3 5.5-30 is my other favorite for lighter weight (have not tried the Pro). I tried ZCO, TT, MK5, NX8, Trij 5-50, XRS3, Cronus, and a few others. Suggest Libertyoptics - vendor on here - if you're going new.

If going factory, at least buy one with an action that takes prefit barrels and 700 triggers. Guy above recommended ARC. Badrock is another, MPA another. Many smiths also offer barreled actions, like PVA, Straightjacket, Bugholes, etc. Then just bolt into your favorite stock or chassis.

Finally, before that, at least go into the PX and click firearms... lots of options for what you're after.

 

[Oryx_Official]

Yeah, as far as scopes go there's a ton of good stuff from different manufacturers. I'd shop around used too. Especially for the big name stuff that has a great warranty that you can send it in, even if it is used, to get repaired if there are any issues. Here's a list of things that are important for long-range:

• exposed tactical style turrets - this way you can adjust your elevation/windage without having to screw on and off caps
• parallax knob - simplified, you can adjust image and reticle in your scope so their both in focus at the range your shooting at
• a "Christmas tree" style reticle - you can measure exactly where you miss was (once it hits and kicks up dirt) and then adjust your point of aim so the round lands on target. You can also hold windage and elevation easier.
• zero stop - so you always know where your 100m zero baseline is on your scope turret for inputting elevation data.
• first-focal plane - the size of the reticle changes to match the magnification you have set in your scope. IE. 2MILS of elevation in the reticle is always going to be 2Mils regardless of you being at 5x or 25x power. (Second focal plane is dependent on your zoom being EXACTLY set at the right power for 2 Mils to mean 2 Mils)
• a bubble level - they don't always come with one but you can buy them.
• a 20MOA scope base - it adds to the amount of adjustment your scope has
• Good rings - MDT makes sets of solid scope rings that won't budge or loosen off when shooting.

Keep in mind, a lot of $500 scopes will have this feature set, as well as the $4000 scopes. The $4000 Vortex is heavier, has better feeling knobs, more adjustability in elevation, an easier to use zero stop, and has MUCH better glass. It's like looking through a pair of gas station sunglasses vs a nice pair of Raybans or Oakleys.

 

[Ronws]

Mossberg MVP Precision.308. It is in a LuthAR chassis. 1600 clams. Spend the rest on optic. That being said, I have also found none better than the vortex venom.

.308 is long distance and has its own F class competition.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Mossberg MVP Precision.308. It is in a LuthAR chassis. 1600 clams. Spend the rest on optic. That being said, I have also found none better than the vortex venom.

.308 is long distance and has its own F class competition.

No offense, but this is not great advice for OP. Particularly that scope, that’s just…really pretty darn budget-tier. And not just on cost.

 

[Ronws]

No offense, but this is not great advice for OP. Particularly that scope, that’s just…really pretty darn budget-tier. And not just on cost.

Perhaps you can re-read my reply. He can spend the rest on optic. I suggested what I like but he doesn't have to get that one. As for the rifle, it is a medium bull barrel and I have the LR thunder ranch version averaging 1/3 MOA without that oh so special Gucci cost.

 

[308pirate]

Mossberg MVP Precision.308. It is in a LuthAR chassis. 1600 clams. Spend the rest on optic. That being said, I have also found none better than the vortex venom.

Fake news

 

[308pirate]

As for the rifle, it is a medium bull barrel and I have the LR thunder ranch version averaging 1/3 MOA without that oh so special Gucci cost.

OK

 

[Im2bent]

Dang a lot of good info here, thanks guys. Have to say it’s getting a bit overwhelming though. What I can gather is to first buy a scope and then choose a rifle after. The Seekins Havak Hit is a bit more tactical looking that I’d like; looking for something a bit more conventional looking. Am hoping to avoid having a rifle built for the moment just because I’ve been through many gunsmiths in my years collecting and most of the time it was a bad experience. Few competent ones out there IMO.

Looking into scopes more, everything I read says get something with 25x (ish) magnification, and anything more is overkill. It seems the more magnification means less MOA adjustment, and vice versa. Is that correct? Because if it wasn’t I wouldn’t see why not to get get the max magnification?

In theory you don't pay more for features in a scope. These days budget scopes have tons of "features".You pay more for quality. Better tracking, quality of the glass, reliability. The scope has to be repeatable. It has to return to zero. Glass quality is huge and highly debated. There are a million threads about what makes or breaks a scopes performance. You will see budget scopes that have the same "features" as an expensive scope. Here is a crappy analogy... a cheap car has a motor,wheels,seats,dash, blah,blah.....so why buy an expensive car? One feature you can pay for is reticle selection. There is a lot more to it than the tiny bit I have alluded to.

 

[Simonsza1]

I know this advice will probably ruffle some feathers and advice that just a few years back I would never have given but here goes. I still stand behind my arc nucleus complete rifle or even one of the othe good suggestions. Now here’s where I’ll get hate for sure. Go for something like the arken ep-5. It’s a dam good scope for not a lot of money. Get the sweet rifle, lots of ammo, maybe some training but save some dough on the optic up front. I say this now and not back in the day cause scopes like the Arken these days really are good despite the haters. Then down the road sell it or transplant it to something else and buy a high end one. This will also get you shooting sooner and possibly give you a chance to test out some high end optics before you drop big money. Lots of guys on here including myself have had lots of experience before picking a $2-$4k optic and that helps with decisions. Good luck just my two cents.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I know this advice will probably ruffle some feathers and advice that just a few years back I would never have given but here goes. I still stand behind my arc nucleus complete rifle or even one of the othe good suggestions. Now here’s where I’ll get hate for sure. Go for something like the arken ep-5. It’s a dam good scope for not a lot of money. Get the sweet rifle, lots of ammo, maybe some training but save some dough on the optic up front. I say this now and not back in the day cause scopes like the Arken these days really are good despite the haters. Then down the road sell it or transplant it to something else and buy a high end one. This will also get you shooting sooner and possibly give you a chance to test out some high end optics before you drop big money. Lots of guys on here including myself have had lots of experience before picking a $2-$4k optic and that helps with decisions. Good luck just my two cents.

No hate from me, the Arken EP5 and Vortex Strike Eagle are strong contenders at their respective price points, esp if you can find one used. The Arken is arguably the better deal.

 

[Ronws]

Okay, so others in here lauded the Vortex Venom without getting the response that I did.

So, I will patiently wait while someone tells me what is wrong with using the Venom other than it costs less than a fourth of the Schmidt & Bender or the Nightforce. I mean, personal experience not some REO Speedwagon "heard from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another...". How has the Venom failed?

Also, the OP was looking to get into long range without having to sink so much money that it felt like an overblown commitment, in case it was just not his particular fancy.

I am not complaining, I am not butt-hurt. Just looking for solid evidence or reason why the advice I gave was bad, other than not costing the same as a Toyota Corolla LE.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Okay, so others in here lauded the Vortex Venom without getting the response that I did.

So, I will patiently wait while someone tells me what is wrong with using the Venom other than it costs less than a fourth of the Schmidt & Bender or the Nightforce. I mean, personal experience not some REO Speedwagon "heard from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another...". How has the Venom failed?

Also, the OP was looking to get into long range without having to sink so much money that it felt like an overblown commitment, in case it was just not his particular fancy.

I am not complaining, I am not butt-hurt. Just looking for solid evidence or reason why the advice I gave was bad, other than not costing the same as a Toyota Corolla LE.

Understood, not trying to come down on you like a hammer. The comment I responded to most was:

I have also found none better than the vortex venom.

I gather now that you were just saying you like the scope. But that comment reads like “Don’t buy anything more pricey than the Venom cause there aren’t actually better scopes,” and that’s just plainly not true. And I think those who responded were trying to steer OP, who is looking at $2-3k on the rifle alone, away from a scope that can be had new for $500 on Amazon. He should at least be in the $1500+ bracket for glass, and that money goes a good long way in the PX.

As for the other person who recommended it, I rolled my eyes then too (esp at the quoted $700 price point), but it was an official company rep and I for one don’t like to dog on people who are basically on the job repping their product. I’d have responded then if it was just a regular user, with the same polite “Excuse me, but no way” assertion.

ETA: The Venom is a good value for someone looking at a new $500 scope, no disagreement about that. But for about $650 you can have a used Strike Eagle off the PX, and more importantly, a $3k build deserves better than $500 of glass. The Venom will generally work, but it ain’t in the same quality bracket as the rifle.

 

[Chickentoast]

^Also, the OP mentioned the Trij 5-50, which is a LOW optic almost identical to the Delta Stryker, runs close to ~$2K, and was regarded as the best super high power optic this price side of the S&B 5-45 when Koshkin reviewed them. I imagine the new Sightron 8-40 is better, and obviously the ZCO 8-40, but the Trij has been out for a while - I have the original "tenmile" branded version on my pellet gun. Anyway, that puts him into the best of the ~2K class - which includes the XTR Pro and stretches to include the G3.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Lot of good advice here, so I will not be redundant.

How serious are you about getting good? It takes a lot of trigger time to do so and stay so.

If so my advice starting out would be to get a heavy .223 varmint rifle with 1:8" twist for 75gr+ bullets and start reloading. I have a Tikka T3X in MPA stock, very happy! It uses AI mags so you can load longer than factory spec COAL using heavy bullets with high BC. No factory ammo is comparable at long range. I have hit steel at 1000 with it but mostly keep it under 700.

Figure out a 1 or 2 year budget including ammo cost and you will understand why. I shoot 2,500 to 3,500 rounds a year in slow fire practice. I know people who shoot far more than I do.

Most of that is .223 75gr ELD-M for about $.45 each reload. Some are 6.5C reloads for about $.75 each for my MPA competition rifle..

Match factory ammo in 223 starts at about $.75 while match factory in 6.5 creedmoor is more like $1.40.

If you decide not to reload save your brass, the time will come.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Dang a lot of good info here, thanks guys. Have to say it’s getting a bit overwhelming though. What I can gather is to first buy a scope and then choose a rifle after. The Seekins Havak Hit is a bit more tactical looking that I’d like; looking for something a bit more conventional looking. Am hoping to avoid having a rifle built for the moment just because I’ve been through many gunsmiths in my years collecting and most of the time it was a bad experience. Few competent ones out there IMO.

Looking into scopes more, everything I read says get something with 25x (ish) magnification, and anything more is overkill. It seems the more magnification means less MOA adjustment, and vice versa. Is that correct? Because if it wasn’t I wouldn’t see why not to get get the max magnification?

Too much magnification is bad for several reasons. First, if you can see every little movement on the target it will be hard to learn to trust your natural point of aim.
Second, as you crank up magnification, image quality deteriorates and mirage becomes a bigger issue, so 25 to 30 is about the point of diminishing returns.
Third is that scope cost goes up with better glass and higher magnification, so if you have to pick between higher magnification or better glass on a budget, always get better glass.

Edit: I want to add that big magnification requires big objectives = heavier and must mount higher. The eye pupil is 2-4mm by day and 5-7mm fully dilated at night. To see a bright clear image any beam of light exiting the scope should be as large as your pupil. The exiting beam from a scope is objective divided by magnification. So a 56mm objective has the following exits:
10x 5.6mm
20x 2.8mm
30x 1.9mm
Once you dial magnification up to where there is less than a full beam of light through your pupil, imagine quality loss has to do with the eye, not the scope.

 

[stevieb92]

My vote is for the Bergara HMR Pro in 6.5 creedmoor. Specifically the heavy barrel version in that cartridge.

 

[DJL2]

Here are some notes from my personal experience -

1. Take a class, use a house gun. You build skill AND gather info on what you like or dislike before dropping your own cash.

2. R700 foot print, accepts pre-fit barrels, or GTFO. Joking aside, these things are “state of the market” if you decide long range isn’t for you. If you decide long range is for you, you now have access to the largest after market and the option of replacing/changing barrels on your own. Win-win.

3. In combination with the above and your RFI, Google “PRS production rifle” or variations thereof. Almost guaranteed to meet the above criteria, buy the one you think looks best. If you deviate, Tikka is the only factory action I can think of offhand that takes pre-fit barrels… and the aftermarket is getting better all the time.

4. Don’t skimp on glass. Everyone’s eyes are different and preferences in glass might diverge accordingly. Best if you can look through a few before you buy. Taking a class, hitting up a PRS match, going to an expo… worth the investment. People are particular on features. Me? FFP, MRAD, floating center dot, .2 mrad graduations, “clean” feeling turrets are the must haves, and I can be flexible on the rest. You probably want something in the 5-25, 6-36 range for a dedicated long range rig… I spend a lot of time between 8 and 18x.

5. I had more luck finding 6 CM when last I looked then 6.5 CM… I shoot both. My 130 grain 6.5 CM loads are just higher recoiling, less effective 108 grain 6 CM loads, so there’s that ;-). I also shoot .308 because it’s great… even if it’s harder to shoot. Up to you if you want “hard mode” or not, heh.

 

[Ronws]

Understood, not trying to come down on you like a hammer. The comment I responded to most was:

I gather now that you were just saying you like the scope. But that comment reads like “Don’t buy anything more pricey than the Venom cause there aren’t actually better scopes,” and that’s just plainly not true. And I think those who responded were trying to steer OP, who is looking at $2-3k on the rifle alone, away from a scope that can be had new for $500 on Amazon. He should at least be in the $1500+ bracket for glass, and that money goes a good long way in the PX.

As for the other person who recommended it, I rolled my eyes then too (esp at the quoted $700 price point), but it was an official company rep and I for one don’t like to dog on people who are basically on the job repping their product. I’d have responded then if it was just a regular user, with the same polite “Excuse me, but no way” assertion.

ETA: The Venom is a good value for someone looking at a new $500 scope, no disagreement about that. But for about $650 you can have a used Strike Eagle off the PX, and more importantly, a $3k build deserves better than $500 of glass. The Venom will generally work, but it ain’t in the same quality bracket as the rifle.

Fair enough and I could have phrased better. Generally quality is like the old mechanic question. "Speed is a question of money. How fast do you want to go?"

I know a guy who usually prefers Schmidt and Bender scopes, the $4k end of things. To me, the Venom is the Strike Eagle without illumination. And they do have high end scopes around the 4 grand and boast 12-60X60 specifically meant for long distance competition. Way farther than even most scopes used by military snipers.

Then, again, is long range and budget an oxymoronic statement?

 

[KnowNothing256]

Here’s a decent deal on a Nucleus barreled action, OP, just add stock and glass:

Firearms - ARC Nucleus barreled action; AR10 (6.5 CM); old Rem700 (7-08mm)

(1) American Rifle Company Nucleus barreled action with a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel spun by Patriot Valley Armory. Shot less than 300 ads. $1625 shipped to your FFL from an individual. $1425 without the Timney 510 trigger and Area 419 Hellfire brake. Scope/mount not included. (2) AR10 in 6.5...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Mauser4me]

My vote is for the Bergara HMR Pro in 6.5 creedmoor. Specifically the heavy barrel version in that cartridge.

Really like the look of that one. I’m looking for one specifically with a bill/Harvey barrel but can’t really distinguish between the ‘normal’ version and a heavy barrel version like you mentioned. Do you have a link to what you’re talking about? Heavy & long barrel seem like the logical long range choice.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Yeah, as far as scopes go there's a ton of good stuff from different manufacturers. I'd shop around used too. Especially for the big name stuff that has a great warranty that you can send it in, even if it is used, to get repaired if there are any issues. Here's a list of things that are important for long-range:

• exposed tactical style turrets - this way you can adjust your elevation/windage without having to screw on and off caps
• parallax knob - simplified, you can adjust image and reticle in your scope so their both in focus at the range your shooting at
• a "Christmas tree" style reticle - you can measure exactly where you miss was (once it hits and kicks up dirt) and then adjust your point of aim so the round lands on target. You can also hold windage and elevation easier.
• zero stop - so you always know where your 100m zero baseline is on your scope turret for inputting elevation data.
• first-focal plane - the size of the reticle changes to match the magnification you have set in your scope. IE. 2MILS of elevation in the reticle is always going to be 2Mils regardless of you being at 5x or 25x power. (Second focal plane is dependent on your zoom being EXACTLY set at the right power for 2 Mils to mean 2 Mils)
• a bubble level - they don't always come with one but you can buy them.
• a 20MOA scope base - it adds to the amount of adjustment your scope has
• Good rings - MDT makes sets of solid scope rings that won't budge or loosen off when shooting.

Keep in mind, a lot of $500 scopes will have this feature set, as well as the $4000 scopes. The $4000 Vortex is heavier, has better feeling knobs, more adjustability in elevation, an easier to use zero stop, and has MUCH better glass. It's like looking through a pair of gas station sunglasses vs a nice pair of Raybans or Oakleys.

This is well done and not info overload.

 

[Mauser4me]

Alright I think I’ve made a few decisions. First off, I want to thank everyone for the input they’ve given. I’ve literally looked into every recommendation, read every response, and been looking this stuff up for hours after work each night. As much as I want a plain and simple factory rifle, I am realizing building may be best. But, I’ve narrowed down a few components:

I will be getting:
1. Scope - Vortex Razor Gen 3 6-36x56 (have not chosen reticle just yet)
2. TRG bravo chassis - a version that takes AICS mags

With that, I need advice on a few more things:
1. A barreled action. At this point, even though it looks simple, I’m just not super comfortable putting on my own barrel. I feel like I would set the headspace wrong in some way that would compromise accuracy or something. Maybe I’m overthinking it but that’s where I’m at. I’d like it to have:
-Matching finish on action & barrel
-Threaded muzzle
-Bull/heavy 24” or longer barrel
-Receiver having 20 MOA rail
-Takes pre-fit barrels (for the future)

Then I’ll need rings & a want muzzle break. I’m hoping a bipod is just…. A bipod right? Or do I need to custom build a bipod too? Haha

Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!!

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Alright I think I’ve made a few decisions. First off, I want to thank everyone for the input they’ve given. I’ve literally looked into every recommendation, read every response, and been looking this stuff up for hours after work each night. As much as I want a plain and simple factory rifle, I am realizing building may be best. But, I’ve narrowed down a few components:

I will be getting:
1. Scope - Vortex Razor Gen 3 6-36x56 (have not chosen reticle just yet)
2. TRG bravo chassis - a version that takes AICS mags

With that, I need advice on a few more things:
1. A barreled action. At this point, even though it looks simple, I’m just not super comfortable putting on my own barrel. I feel like I would set the headspace wrong in some way that would compromise accuracy or something. Maybe I’m overthinking it but that’s where I’m at. I’d like it to have:
-Matching finish on action & barrel
-Threaded muzzle
-Bull/heavy 24” or longer barrel
-Receiver having 20 MOA rail
-Takes pre-fit barrels (for the future)

Then I’ll need rings & a want muzzle break. I’m hoping a bipod is just…. A bipod right? Or do I need to custom build a bipod too? Haha

Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!!

You will get several recs on this but there's a reason the Origin is so popular and why it's a lot of guys first custom action. I have a Zeus QC, and 2 Valor QC actions, and have had others too. That Origin is still fantastic and I still have it. Easy to find pre fits for it and the Customer Service is fantastic, and Second to none. You won't go wrong with that.

 

[JimmyH]

I didn’t read all the replies but, I wish I had started off before buying anything by taking a 3-4 day class with @lowlight or Modern Day Riflemen. I just listened to one of his podcasts and @lowlight was taking about having rentals available at his classes. I would think Modern Day Riflemen would have something similar available.

By going this route, you’d be getting great training, with a dependable/repeatable weapon, and get to see the other students equipment first hand. And you’ll see what works and what doesn’t work while it’s being used in the field.

Hope this helps some,
Jim

 

[Chickentoast]

Alright I think I’ve made a few decisions. First off, I want to thank everyone for the input they’ve given. I’ve literally looked into every recommendation, read every response, and been looking this stuff up for hours after work each night. As much as I want a plain and simple factory rifle, I am realizing building may be best. But, I’ve narrowed down a few components:

I will be getting:
1. Scope - Vortex Razor Gen 3 6-36x56 (have not chosen reticle just yet)
2. TRG bravo chassis - a version that takes AICS mags

With that, I need advice on a few more things:
1. A barreled action. At this point, even though it looks simple, I’m just not super comfortable putting on my own barrel. I feel like I would set the headspace wrong in some way that would compromise accuracy or something. Maybe I’m overthinking it but that’s where I’m at. I’d like it to have:
-Matching finish on action & barrel
-Threaded muzzle
-Bull/heavy 24” or longer barrel
-Receiver having 20 MOA rail
-Takes pre-fit barrels (for the future)

Then I’ll need rings & a want muzzle break. I’m hoping a bipod is just…. A bipod right? Or do I need to custom build a bipod too? Haha

Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!!

Already gave rec's for barreled actions and who does them. Rings, ARC hands down for me. Never an issue, and I have had issues with other brands, including ZCO rings, which slipped. Bipod I bought the MDT ckyepod and have to admit it is the best I've tried, but you don't need one. My best groups still come from sand bags, and I can reproduce my bipod groups just resting the rifle on my backpack. Brake, just decide on material (weight) and number of ports you want (recoil reduction) - from there, brands will be pretty similar.

 

[Mauser4me]

Is ‘origin’ action like saying ‘98 Mauser’ action? I am trying to google search origin actions and getting a lot of different companies all selling actions they claim are ‘origin’

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Is ‘origin’ action like saying ‘98 Mauser’ action? I am trying to google search origin actions and getting a lot of different companies all selling actions they claim are ‘origin’

Zermätt Origin Action - Zermätt Arms Website

ORIGIN is a friendly priced custom action that utilizes many features included in the TL3 and SR3 line of actions. This receiver is available in the following configurations: – SHORT, MEDIUM or LONG action – RIGHT or LEFT hand – 223, 308, Magnum or PPC/SPC (Valkyrie) bolt heads – Swept bolt...

www.zermattarms.com

As has been said, I've found the mdt elite rings to be very very good also, but there's several good mounts too if you want to go that route.