Advanced Marksmanship Newwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwbbbbbyyyyy

[Musicman]

Hey Guys, I'm pretty sure this falls under Advance Marksmanship or at least an attempt to seek an advancement in my marksmanship. I have read the Fundamentals thread a few times and just got done with the prone shooting one as well.
I'm not new to firearms or the shooting sports but I am trying to acquaint myself with the long range "tactical" venue.
I've been working on getting a stick up and running for a few years now (collecting parts and what not) and finally was able to put it together this last year (have a few things left I would like to do to it but that's part of the process right?)

I don't know the direction this post will take or the advice/criticism I will find either, but here goes anyway.

I am also new to reloading and have loaded up a few "batches" to find what my gun likes... I've been shooting at 100yrds to see how my loads group. But I have recently read how Lowlight doesn't much care for "groups"..haha but at least the ones I'm showing are 5 shot and not the dreaded 3 shot groups. lol

I have been shooting prone, off of a ruck and or bipod.
My rifle is a LH 700 with A5 stock, a Rock 11.27 M40 tapered barrel and Badger M5 bottom metal. topped off with a NXS 5.5X22X56 in Seekins rings.

Pics of rifle and some "groups" to come later in the post.

I have learned alot in the threads i have read in just the last few days, and I'm amazed at the ability and commitment to your discipline.

A few questions if you please. (stupid, probably?)

1. I have read that you want to position yourself inline with your weapon. (your gun is pointing at 12 so should ur body), I have found that pointing my body to the 9 position is more comfortable.... bad form, probably...detrimental to my shooting?????

2. I have alot of fatigue in the back of my neck when shooting prone and often have to bow my head after each shot to "stretch" it...... is this a direct response to my poor shooting position or could it be from poor check weld, or bipod to high or low????

3. I cannot think of a question to ask here other than if you have any tips i would appreciate it. and I might have to start saving for a trip to Rifles Only sometime.


My Stick.

Some groups with IMR 4895/168SMK and TAC/168SMK
Please don't laugh to hard, don't want to be responsible for you busting a gut ( I couldn't live with myself)

I don't know how to distinguish between poor shooting and not a good load for my gun..... should I do "load" development from a bench and bags????

Anyway, thanks for looking and reading... and a big thank you to our men and women in uniform here and abroad and your sacrifice for our country.

Sean

 

[savage110]

Re: Newwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwbbbbbyyyyy

I did mine off a bipod and rear bag. try some varget and Imr 4064 in that gun.

 

[Austan]

Re: Newwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwbbbbbyyyyy

The importance of being straight behind your rifle is to be able to spot your impacts. The necks soreness is from doing something new, it will go away the more you shoot from the prone position and your body gets acclimated to it. Your shooting seems fine to me, keep it up.

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Newwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwbbbbbyyyyy

I strongly recommend the online training. It is very well worth it.

If you are shooting at a target roughly level with your position and your bipod is as high as it is in the pics on your truck, it is probably a little high. The lower you can keep it, the more comfortable it will get. At least that's what I found out, between reading here and learning some the hard way.

 

[Musicman]

Newby

Thanks for the input guys.
Sled, last night and this morning i dry fired for quite some time and found that the bipod was indeed to high to shoot comfortably.
Austan, I have been "practicing" laying straight behind and inline with the rifle and becoming comfortable with it.
Don't know if it matters but I have been shooting at the highest power weather at 100yds out to 430 (thats the furthest I have shot) probably not the best but I like to 'see' what i'm hitting, or not hitting..lol

 

[Every Day Gun Guy]

Newby

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I strongly recommend the online training. It is very well worth it. </div></div>

+1 here, some of the most beneficial money spent on my long range education.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Newby

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Musicman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the input guys.
Sled, last night and this morning i dry fired for quite some time and found that the bipod was indeed to high to shoot comfortably.
Austan, I have been "practicing" laying straight behind and inline with the rifle and becoming comfortable with it.
Don't know if it matters but I have been shooting at the highest power weather at 100yds out to 430 (thats the furthest I have shot) probably not the best but I like to 'see' what i'm hitting, or not hitting..lol </div></div>

Magnification is moot, it only describes the relationship between the target and reticle--what's important is knowning where the barrel is pointed. Using a scope, to understand where the barrel is pointed requires a consistent relationship between the eyeball and the eyepiece. Anchoring the eyeball in a relationship to the eyepiece is made possible by resting the full weight of the head on the butt stock for a muscularly relaxed stockweld.

Regarding the bipod, it's an outstanding rest, but, once the trigger is pulled, and the bullet starts traveling toward the muzzle, the bipod is not the support it alludes to being. You must have a technique to maintain control over the rifle until the bullet exits. Only with consistent control will you avoid a divergent angle between line of bore at rest and the line of bore at bullet exit. Consistent angularity is necessary if zero bullet displacement is important to you.

These considerations are brought to your attention as, right now, you're off track, placing importance on things which are a distraction to good shooting.

 

[Musicman]

Re: Newby

Sterling, what king of things am I placing importance on which are distracting me from good shooting??? (not being sarcastic)

I'm going to look into the online training.. didn't even know that was available, just always come to the forums.
Thanks,
Sean

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Newby

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Musicman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sterling, what king of things am I placing importance on which are distracting me from good shooting??? (not being sarcastic)

I'm going to look into the online training.. didn't even know that was available, just always come to the forums.
Thanks,
Sean </div></div>

You're thinking about magnification, in which consideration, the scope has become a distraction, as you are not thinking about what's really important when using a scope, which is getting a consistent perspective of aim. Instead, with your mindset focused on magnification, pondering whether more of it will help you shoot better, you don't get anywhere at getting better results, since magnification, while perhaps giving you a better recognition of the reticle/target relationship, only becomes meaningful when less magnification does not allow for recognition for where the barrel is pointed. At the distances you are shooting, at let's say an SR-1 target, which can be recognized with the naked eye, a center of mass hold using iron sights will get results comparable to those using a scope, if such shooting is performed by someone who has had some marksmanship training. Don't get me wrong, this post is not about what type of sight is appropriate. It's about you developing skills from a basis of understanding coming from facts about the matter rather than the fiction of scope marketers and other suspect influences from whom you appear to have accepted misinformation from so far.

Training online here, or from a highly qualified instructor will hopefully get you thinking about the principles of marksmanship, how to properly point the rifle with consistent sight alignment and how to fire it utilizing smooth trigger control. Training will also show you how to support the rifle while executing the firing task, as well as how to counter the effects of gravity, drag, temperature, and wind.

I'm not trying to dog ya, just trying to get you off to a good start. Everyday, I see folks getting into some sort of shooting activity, coming into it with notions of what will get the job done based mostly on stuff they've seen TV or on the web, which are at best incomplete.

 

[AQC440]

Re: Newby

First off let me say, Sterling shooter is the best "Irons" shooter I have ever seen, and anyone could do worse then heeding his advice.

"You're thinking about magnification, in that sense, the scope has become a distraction, as you are not thinking about what's really important when using a scope, which is getting a consistent perspective of aim. Instead, with your mindset focused on magnification, pondering whether more of it will help you shoot better, you don't get anywhere at getting better results, since magnification, while perhaps giving you a better recognition of the reticle/target relationship, only becomes meaningful when less magnification does not allow for recognition for where the barrel is pointed. At the distances you are shooting, at let's say an SR-1 target, which can be recognized with the naked eye, a center of mass hold using iron sights will get results comparable to those using a scope, if such shooting is performed by someone who has had some marksmanship training"

I see what Sterling is saying as this:
Any shooter, let alone a newish shooter is going to have some movement on target, and guess what? With higher magnification comes magnified movement, compared to lesser magnification or "0" wherein the movement is nil and gives you the confidence to break the shot...

 

[175G]

Re: Newby

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Musicman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to look into the online training.. didn't even know that was available, just always come to the forums.
Thanks,
Sean </div></div>

There are a number of threads about the training but here is the sticky: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=997161#Post997161

After you sign up for the training (this is also covered elsewhere but just in case) log out of the site and log back in. Then you will find the training forum is open to you. Its under Forums > S-3 Firearms Training >Snipers Hide On-Line Training.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=11&page=1

Of course it is not real life instruction but short of that as others mention it is beyond worth it. When you hear or read about concepts its one thing, but there you can actually see what they are talking about and many other things are explained in detail so rather than only hearing a bunch of information and ideas and trying them out one by one till you hopefully figure it out and pick up bad habits along the way you can just see it right the first time.

Oh also under My Stuff > Subscriptions you can see the status of your account etc

Just my two cents

 

[TimK]

Re: Newby

I'm only slightly less new than you, but I did learn something about the position behind the rifle. After reading here about being directly in line behind the gun, I tried it. No matter what I did, the rifle hopped left after the shot and I could not see my impacts. It also beat the daylights out of me in that position.

In a fit of frustration one day, I angled myself to the left at a comfortable angle and tried it. Instantly, I was more on target after the shot and the pain was gone. After some fine tuning of the angle, the rifle now recoils straight back and I can see my hits.

As a side note, I also had a lot of neck pain. The angled position may account for some of the improvement, or it may all just be due to time behind the rifle.

Like I said, I'm new so my opinion may be crap, but I'd be careful about blindly taking position advice without experimenting to see what works best for your body type.

Oh, and take the online training.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Newby

Your position, the one that's working for you, is in fact a typical one when shooting with the non-firing hand on the handguard, using the non-firing hand, along with the other factors of a steady position to support the rifle until recoil has subsided. For folks using a bipod rest, if the non-firing hand is off the handguard, a position may be [straight back]; and, when used with a so called [driving technique] the rifle may kept under control until recoil has subsided. What's note worthy here is that when the non-firing hand is on the handguard a straight position is not possible; and, those attempting to make it possible become very frustrated with it all as the rifle is not controllable with such a contorted effort.

Of course, I don't know where your non-firing hand was located as you did not mention it in your post. However since you are having better results with some angularity, you might try out the positon with the non-firing hand on the handguard with the arm's elbow placed as close to under the rifle as is comfortable. In such a postiton, youll have control of where the barrel is pointed with the rifle at rest, as well as during the time the bullet is traveling through the bore. Just make sure the non-firing hand is grasping the handguard with just enough pressure to control the rifle, any more and you might find yourself steering with the non-firing hand rather than adjusting NPA.

 

[Musicman]

Re: Newby

Took my oldest out to shoot her B-Day present so I took along a few 22's and got back to basics with open sights for a bit. I forgot how much I love shooting 22's and for that matter non-scoped rifles. She's 7 and hitting steal ever time she pulls the trigger. We were only shooting at 50 yrds but had a great time, and it was good to get behind the 22 and work on fundamentals (until it was time to reload her mag) note to self buy more 10/22 magazines..hahaha

 

[mgd45]

Re: Newby

Here's a good little tip......

Don't hold your camera so close to the target! Take the pic from at least 3 feet away. Your bullet holes will be crystal clear & much easier to see.....LOL!

Great looking rifle/scope & not bad with the groups either!

 

[Musicman]

Re: Newby

thnx Mgd..... my camera skills are on par with my Lr shotting..lol
the rifle has been 6 years in the making and not quite done. (have 3 kids and 1 income has put all "fun" stuff on the back burner) but the wife went back to work... YEAH ME!!!!!!!
hahha
Sean