Rifle Scopes NF Nx8 2-5-20 vs. Zeiss V8 2.8-20 Vs Swaro Z8I 3.5-28 vs S&B pm II 3-20 Short or 3-21 Exos

[sethwilliamd]

I have built a Light weight (mostly carbon fiber) Lr308 or ar 10 that is 6.6 lbs. and if possible I'd like to keep it light. I will use it mostly for hunting but it will also be my gateway into target shooting and later competitive shooting. I’m coming from a 5-25 pst gen2 which was just ok but what I really didn’t like was I really missed my lower magnification. So I’ve decided on either the NF 2.5-20 (I’m banking on a sfp announcement Monday at SHOT SHOW), Zeiss v8 2.8-20, the swaro 3.5-28 and the s&b 3-20 or exos 3-21. I really don’t want a 3-18. I understand the short comings with this Erector type setup that usually only money fixes and that no scope is perfect. However I like being able to quickly acquire a target in the field as well as being able to reach out and touch it. Now I know everything has better glass than the NF but that isn’t the concern, my concern are things like durability (if crap happens like it falls off the tailgate while I’m setting up will the scope still be ok.) , repeatable (will the scope hold it’s zero after spending a day on a 4
Wheeler on a washboard road), eyebox (How easy is it to get on target), field of view, and reticle that doesn’t disappear in the trees without illumination and customer service . I also prefer sfp as I hunt in the timber and would prefer to dial long distance anyway. A few questions of money is no option which of those are you choosing and is twice the price for what I am doing worth it ? Is the Eyebox really that bad on the NF?
Cross posted in the Pit cause ima Noob and didn't know better

 

[Birddog6424]

The eyebox on the NX8 is tight. You have to be in the right spot. But it's not atrocious, or unusable. Your just very aware of it because you cant just get behind it and its "there". You may have to settle into it.

FOV on the NF is excellent. But for me personally, the depth of view and the unclear edges of the glass would rule this out as a hunting scope. Great FOV without edge clarity kinda offsets itself.

In your shoes I would lean towards the Swaro or the S&B.

 

[Brandon05_88]

Just throwing this optic out there: NF 4-16x42 F1. It’s ideal for a 308 gasser. And personally, below 4-5x on a FFP gets really small.

 

[Glassaholic]

So sounds like you want at least 20x but would like more FOV at the bottom end? I would not put the Nightforce NX8 in the same category as the ATACR series when it comes to build quality, just something to keep in mind. You seem to be equating the Nightforce with some kind of super hero ability where you think it is unbreakable, but I would caution against this, yes, Nightforce has a great track record of durability but they are not flawless and possibly not the most durable scopes made today. To be honest, most of the $2k class scopes you are looking at should hold up easily to the rigors you suggest. You also mention this being a gateway to target and competitive shooting but say you prefer SFP, if you think you'll get into this type of shooting then I'd highly recommend you serious consider learning how to use an FFP effectively throughout the magnification range, it is a myth that you cannot use a FFP scope at bottom mag effectively, yes the reticle does get small but the reasons you'd be using it at low mag often negate the issues that come with the small reticle.

It's hard to make some recommendations for you as it already sounds like you've convinced yourself the NF NX8 2.5-20 is the scope for you, I would say this, get the FFP version and learn how to use it, you'll be thankful in the long run. It is another myth that SFP is for hunting and FFP for competition, plenty of knowledgeable shooters use FFP effectively in the field for hunting, even at close ranges and low mag. Personally, I think the March 3-24x52 offers a better overall package than the NF NX8 but both struggle with finicky DOF and parallax control, something that other scopes are much more forgiving in. The Schmidt Ultra Short 3-20x50 is going to spin circles around the NX8 optically and mechanically, the MSR and even better the MSR2 makes a great crossover hunting/competition reticle but I have issues with the 18 mil turrets they now put on these scopes. If you want the very best in this type of scope, then check out the ZCO ZC420, still has really good FOV at the bottom and you won't find a better ultra short scope on the market today optically and mechanically IMO.

 

[sethwilliamd]

So sounds like you want at least 20x but would like more FOV at the bottom end? I would not put the Nightforce NX8 in the same category as the ATACR series when it comes to build quality, just something to keep in mind. You seem to be equating the Nightforce with some kind of super hero ability where you think it is unbreakable, but I would caution against this, yes, Nightforce has a great track record of durability but they are not flawless and possibly not the most durable scopes made today. To be honest, most of the $2k class scopes you are looking at should hold up easily to the rigors you suggest. You also mention this being a gateway to target and competitive shooting but say you prefer SFP, if you think you'll get into this type of shooting then I'd highly recommend you serious consider learning how to use an FFP effectively throughout the magnification range, it is a myth that you cannot use a FFP scope at bottom mag effectively, yes the reticle does get small but the reasons you'd be using it at low mag often negate the issues that come with the small reticle.

It's hard to make some recommendations for you as it already sounds like you've convinced yourself the NF NX8 2.5-20 is the scope for you, I would say this, get the FFP version and learn how to use it, you'll be thankful in the long run. It is another myth that SFP is for hunting and FFP for competition, plenty of knowledgeable shooters use FFP effectively in the field for hunting, even at close ranges and low mag. Personally, I think the March 3-24x52 offers a better overall package than the NF NX8 but both struggle with finicky DOF and parallax control, something that other scopes are much more forgiving in. The Schmidt Ultra Short 3-20x50 is going to spin circles around the NX8 optically and mechanically, the MSR and even better the MSR2 makes a great crossover hunting/competition reticle but I have issues with the 18 mil turrets they now put on these scopes. If you want the very best in this type of scope, then check out the ZCO ZC420, still has really good FOV at the bottom and you won't find a better ultra short scope on the market today optically and mechanically IMO.

Thank you for the info! I appreciate your willingness to impart your point of view. FFP would be great and i definitely see the advantages if I could find a useable reticle in the low light /trees on low power magnifications. But to my eyes I have yet to find something suitable as they tend to disappear. I have been leaning towards the NF but I have concerns, the eye box being foremost, but if I’m going to spend double, durability and reliability issues shouldn’t be one. I have run into several people personally as well as online reports of every brand/model I’ve mentioned having a zero shift after repeated shaking or vibrations such as a direct “test” or a ride on the back of a atv or truck still in a case. The fewest of these Came from NF. An additional concern are reports that Customer service from s&b and Zeiss have been hard to work with in those situations with charges being applied for things that would have been taken care of in the past. The exception is swaro which doesn’t seem to have almost any practical reliability data, but people I’ve talked to have concerns on its durability based on its 23oz weight, but I can’t find any data to support that. Another concern with the swaro is only 14 mil of adjustments. The zco line of scope I’ve heard nothing but good about, however I don’t know if I’m willing to go with 4 for my low end magnification As that one thing I missed with my 5-25 low end. One thing is for sure I’m going to have to compromise on something in this niche of scopes, Weight, durability, eye box, reliability I just have to decide which I want to deal with . I truly appreciate your willingness to share, the more information and data I can get the better decision I can make in the end. Knowledge is power.

 

[Glassaholic]

Hi Seth, if you are in the thick stuff and using 3-4x power I understand that your concern is you will not see the reticle, this is where illumination can really, well... illuminate the situation, most prefer just the cross to be illuminated, but even an illuminated tree acts as a delta triangle pointed at the top to the center. If you are not using illumination then yes, you will find the reticle does get lost in the high contrast of brush, shrubs, trees and shadows and some do better than others, this is why I tend to prefer a little thicker reticle vs. thinner ones geared more for just competition. Let's say your intended game is deer and let's say the kill zone is about 10" now think about how far away that animal is going to be when you're in the thick, say 25 yards is what you're thinking, at 100 yards the ZCO has a FOV of 28', at 50yds it's going to 14' and at 25 yds it's going to be about 7', do you think you can make a shot in that 10" kill zone with 7' FOV? It is entirely up to you and what you feel confident about within your capabilities so this is your decision, and if you feel in this situation you would not be comfortable making the shot and would prefer wider FOV, then now you can focus on a Schmidt 3-20 or something like that. Just some food for thought. One other thought in close quarters situations is to train with occluded eye aiming, this is where you turn on illumination, cover the front objective with a scope cap and open both eyes and is something I'm trying to train myself more in because I think it is a very effective method when using a long range scope in close situations. Yet another option if you feel you're going to have a lot of close encounters would be to mount a RDS at 45 degrees or so off the scope tube, then you have the best of both worlds and with that setup you may not feel you need 3 or even 4x...

If you think you will always use your scope at max magnification for long range shooting then you can get by with SFP, but the moment you have your 3-20 scope set at 12x and forget it's set there and use your reticle to hold for wind or elevation, guess what, there goes your trophy because you missed. If you plan to always dial for wind and elevation then SFP may suffice, but since this is going on a gas gun I'm assuming you want to be a little more dynamic than that and will probably find that you'd like to hold and this is where FFP is far, far better.

I'm not saying I'm the expert and that you have to do certain things "my way", but I'm trying to give you some things to think about that might help you make your decision.

 

[sethwilliamd]

The eyebox on the NX8 is tight. You have to be in the right spot. But it's not atrocious, or unusable. Your just very aware of it because you cant just get behind it and its "there". You may have to settle into it.

FOV on the NF is excellent. But for me personally, the depth of view and the unclear edges of the glass would rule this out as a hunting scope. Great FOV without edge clarity kinda offsets itself.

In your shoes I would lean towards the Swaro or the S&B.

Is the eyebox on the NF tight on the low end like 2.5 or is it tight more on the higher end like 20 or equally all the way through?

 

[Glassaholic]

Is the eyebox on the NF tight on the low end like 2.5 or is it tight more on the higher end like 20 or equally all the way through?

Like most scopes it is more forgiving as you go down in magnification, but it was fairly tight all the way through. I hear the 4-32 handles this much better

 

[6AYoteHunter]

I am shocked how many people have an issue with eye box. The only person I know who has had an issue looking through either of my NX8 is my sister who only shoots a few times per year. I own two of the 2.5-20 on coyote rifles (5.56 and 6 creed). No problem hitting coyotes moving in brush with the mil-c. The con with this optic is you have to adjust parallax frequently when using the upper end of the magnification. The edge fisheye is minimal on both scopes if you adjust the diopter properly.

 

[sethwilliamd]

Ended up with a Schmidt 3-20 ultra short in sfp . Best combo of reliable, glass, tough, feature, tracking etc. the swaro has the best glass imo but only had 47 moa of adjustment. the Zeiss glass to me was yellow, and I didn’t like the 36mm tube, or the reticle. as well the image imo degraded when zoomed. The nf I don’t think was a bad scope, decent glass for the money, decent turrets for the money. however without a sfp option the reticle was far too small. (which is why Imo I think many people feel they have a eyebox problem all the way through the power range and not just at high power, and that would explain why the problem doesn’t impact the 4-32 nf nearly as bad. but that is just supposition I’m not an glass engineer) Nf had the best warranty but I’ve been assured Schmidt takes a beating and they take care of customers even with the 30 year warranty which I was told bey europtic was only 30 years because German law doesn’t allow longer ?‍. Either way they are built like tanks so I’m not too worried. I’m putting it on NF 20 moa 194a ultralight mount