NightHawk or Staccato 2011?

[mrtoyz]

Looking for a 2011. Ideally in 45 but neither company makes them. Crazy
I’ve shot the old STI DVC Omni and liked it. Looked at a Staccato XC and was fairly impressed with fit and finish. Was few things, beaver tail fit, that weren’t perfect but I think that’s to be expected for Staccato. Additionally I shoot 147gr subs and I don’t believe the porting on the XC will have any affect. For Staccato I think I’d be leaning toward the XL. 5.5” barrel seams a little excessive.l
Haven’t played with a NightHawk but in general I think it pretty top notch.
Would love any first hand accounts.

 

[Bakwa]

I've owned a Nighthawk. Played with several more. I've also played with STI's plenty. They're both great guns. But I'd give the edge to NHC. They're functional works of art, plain and simple. Their attention to detail is typically very impressive.
STI's are geared towards the race gun community in my mind. They make nice what needs to be made nice. They won't make things seamless or polish every edge like NHC will.
Both are solid 1911 style builders.

I know that's a generic answer, but I have less experience shooting double stack 1911 type pistols.

 

[Skunkworx]

Staccato owner here (p and xc). Their marketing is awesome, but I honestly believe they’re the entry level 2011 product. There’s no comparison between a nice fitted NHC vs a mass produced staccato.

 

[davsco]

lots of aftermarket parts for the 2011's (sti / staccato). i'd check on that for NH before buying.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

If these are your only choices:
Nighthawk for 1911s
STI for 2011s

But if you are going to pay Nighthawk prices for a 2011 you probably better off buying an Atlas or an SVI instead.

 

[TheOE800]

Staccato owner here (p and xc). Their marketing is awesome, but I honestly believe they’re the entry level 2011 product. There’s no comparison between a nice fitted NHC vs a mass produced staccato.

This.

 

[Choid]

I have probably 15 NHC 1911s. Great guns. Great people. In the production level 1911 world, I think they are the best out there.

I did not care for their take on the 2011 and honestly think Staccato makes a better 2011.

I've worked on 1911s for thirty years, as a hobbyist, but I've taken multi day build classes with several of the best known custom smiths. The Staccato is not an entry level product. The P is somewhere slightly above the TRP line from Springfield, and the XC is about the same in the controls, but more worked throughout the fire control group.

None of these, not Nighthawk, Cabot, Wilson etc are close to what you get from a master 1911 smith. Not in the same time zone. But any of the pistols in question are going to be really, really good.

 

[CK1.0]

Umm you’ve heard of Atlas right..? They’re the 2011 guys these days IMHO.

Atlas Gunworks - 2011 / 1911 Handguns, Parts, & Accessories

atlasgunworks.com

Otherwise, old pre-Staccato STI 2011’s are out there, many that were never even broken in… an old STI Edge is “THE 2011”, modern classic IMO. (Just get the newer mags unless you like driving yourself crazy, old 2011 mags sucked.)

 

[davsco]

masterpiece arms, who makes MPA rifle chassis (chasses?) that a lot of us use and love, is now making semi-custom 2011 handguns. i have one on order.

 

[TheOE800]

masterpiece arms, who makes MPA rifle chassis (chasses?) that a lot of us use and love, is now making semi-custom 2011 handguns. i have one on order.

Chassis plural is spelled the same, though pronounced differently.

 

[Biggie1976]

masterpiece arms, who makes MPA rifle chassis (chasses?) that a lot of us use and love, is now making semi-custom 2011 handguns. i have one on order.

Been waiting to see this as well

 

[Asiparks]

In that Nighthawk price range, I'd be looking at ACW

Quantico HiCap - Alchemy Custom Weaponry

alchemy1911.com

 

[Choid]

Alchemy is much more variable in quality than Nighthawk.

 

[0724/1030]

I’m throw out TRIARC Systems as another alternative in that price range.

https://www.triarcsystems.com/

 

[Asiparks]

Alchemy is much more variable in quality than Nighthawk.

interesting- based on what info ?

 

[Choid]

interesting- based on what info ?

I own about 15 Nighthawks and have owned others I've sold. I own one Alchemy but have owned several others. I've been working on 1911s since the 1980s. There are things I love about Alchemy, but things that have needed to be fixed on every one of their guns. Little things, but annoying.

There are also things I don't love about Nighthawk, but they are not problems, just things they do that I don't find to be in line with what I like.

 

[mrtoyz]

lots of aftermarket parts for the 2011's (sti / staccato). i'd check on that for NH before buying.

Good call

 

[mrtoyz]

Umm you’ve heard of Atlas right..? They’re the 2011 guys these days IMHO.

Atlas Gunworks - 2011 / 1911 Handguns, Parts, & Accessories

atlasgunworks.com

Otherwise, old pre-Staccato STI 2011’s are out there, many that were never even broken in… an old STI Edge is “THE 2011”, modern classic IMO. (Just get the newer mags unless you like driving yourself crazy, old 2011 mags sucked.)

I briefly looked at Atlas. Not a fan of them aesthetically

 

[mrtoyz]

masterpiece arms, who makes MPA rifle chassis (chasses?) that a lot of us use and love, is now making semi-custom 2011 handguns. i have one on order.

I’ll take a look, thanks.

 

[mrtoyz]

One of the things I really appreciate about NH is their optics platform. Looks as solid as I’ve seen on any platform.
Stacatto uses Dawson Precsion optics platform. Not bad, just not their own.

 

[Choid]

I briefly looked at Atlas. Not a fan of them aesthetically

They are a bit pimp daddy for my tastes. Also, the triggers are really light in case you plan on using this for other than range/comp.

One of the things I really appreciate about NH is their optics platform. Looks as solid as I’ve seen on any platform.
Stacatto uses Dawson Precsion optics platform. Not bad, just not their own.

The NY optics platform is spectacularly well thought out and executed. The DPO one is not in the same league.

 

[n2ishun]

Well.....
Start here.

Caspian Arms | Serving the custom pistolsmith since 1983

www.caspianarms.com

Now get busy.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

CK/MPA doesn't make a .45 anymore.

If you want the best, the answer is SVI. It will be more or less a one off. It will cost an arm and a leg and take 12 months.

Nighthawk has never been known for 2011s. Yes, they offer A model, but they are primarily known for 1911s. I would not go to them for a 2011. Likewise most of the 'master 1911 smiths' do not build or work on 2011s. It's a different market.

Atlas is second only to SVI. Yes, they are now a bit ugly but their quality is superior to most other brands and turn around is faster. STI and Staccato are more production level, good but not Atlas or SVI good.

A couple other options are: Phoenix Trinity, Cheely, Akai, Carne Customs, Rafferty, McLearn. There are others but will be mostly smaller companies.

 

[Choid]

CK/MPA doesn't make a .45 anymore.

If you want the best, the answer is SVI. It will be more or less a one off. It will cost an arm and a leg and take 12 months.

Nighthawk has never been known for 2011s. Yes, they offer A model, but they are primarily known for 1911s. I would not go to them for a 2011. Likewise most of the 'master 1911 smiths' do not build or work on 2011s. It's a different market.

Atlas is second only to SVI. Yes, they are now a bit ugly but their quality is superior to most other brands and turn around is faster. STI and Staccato are more production level, good but not Atlas or SVI good.

A couple other options are: Phoenix Trinity, Cheely, Akai, Carne Customs, Rafferty, McLearn. There are others but will be mostly smaller companies.

It's true insofar as the market goes, but the only different parts are what? Mag catch, trigger and MSH pin? None of those are exactly specialized parts. I think the difference is that different builders build race guns, "classic" or "self defense" guns, bullseye guns etc. There is literally no difference in the actual build process.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

It's true insofar as the market goes, but the only different parts are what? Mag catch, trigger and MSH pin? None of those are exactly specialized parts. I think the difference is that different builders build race guns, "classic" or "self defense" guns, bullseye guns etc. There is literally no difference in the actual build process.

Look we get your knee deep invested in Nighthawk Armory. That's great and all but let's not be unrealistic here.

For example, an SVI is just on another level for any design. They make everything in house. Everything is one off. Fitment is superior to anything else in the production market. Yes, the build process is similar, but Nighthawk isn't that great in comparison to the other makes I just listed anyway.

 

[Choid]

Look we get your knee deep invested in Nighthawk Armory. That's great and all but let's not be unrealistic here.

For example, an SVI is just on another level for any design. They make everything in house. Everything is one off. Fitment is superior to anything else in the production market. Yes, the build process is similar, but Nighthawk isn't that great in comparison to the other makes I just listed anyway.

Lol. Nighthawks make up a small fraction of my 1911s, sorry to say, but a good proportion of my production guns. Most of mine are custom Colts or made on Caspian frames. But just like I wasn't going to suggest to the guy to add 50% to his budget for an SVI, I also wouldn't suggest to do the same to have a guy like Greg Derr build him a gun.

But of course that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, which is that the parts of a 2011 and 1911 are exactly the same, so there is no reason that there shouldn't be a crossover between the two. There isn't a technique in building one that is different from another.

I'll give you an example. My two best bullseye guns were built for me by Jerry Keefer. His building technique difference when compared to the guns Dick Heinie built for me has to do with use, not with platform. Likewise, SVI, which makes great guns, has a market based on use, not on platform. They are as good at building a race single stack as double stack.

Also, it is you're, and not your. And guns are hardly an investment, they are a toy.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Lol. Nighthawks make up a small fraction of my 1911s, sorry to say, but a good proportion of my production guns. Most of mine are custom Colts or made on Caspian frames. But just like I wasn't going to suggest to the guy to add 50% to his budget for an SVI, I also wouldn't suggest to do the same to have a guy like Greg Derr build him a gun.

But of course that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, which is that the parts of a 2011 and 1911 are exactly the same, so there is no reason that there shouldn't be a crossover between the two. There isn't a technique in building one that is different from another.

I'll give you an example. My two best bullseye guns were built for me by Jerry Keefer. His building technique difference when compared to the guns Dick Heinie built for me has to do with use, not with platform. Likewise, SVI, which makes great guns, has a market based on use, not on platform. They are as good at building a race single stack as double stack.

Also, it is you're, and not your. And guns are hardly an investment, they are a toy.

You took the time to correct my grammar by starting the next sentence with the word 'and'.

Guns are not toys. They sure as hell can be investments. I was using that metaphorically but thanks for pointing out that you think guns are toys. (weird).

No, I won't be placing 1911 slide on a 2011 frame, or a 1911 frame on a 2011 slide not everything is interchangeable without fitment. Again, let's not be unrealistic here. There are only a small number of companies that actually manufacture a 2011 receiver. Not that it matters but having a company that actually fits 2011s more often is more valuable to me. I get the 1911 club does get a tad bit sensitive when it comes to brand loyalty. Thankfully this isn't 1911forums, so we can speak freely here and no one will have their feelings hurt.

A Nighthawk 2011 is like buying a shotgun from Wilson Combat instead of Beretta it really isn't their specialty. No, I would not buy a duty 2011 pistol much less a USPSA Limited 2011 from them because frankly it just doesn't make much sense. Staccato or whatever the fuck they are calling themselves know this. That is why they stopped selling 1911s and competition pistols. There are a lot more manufacturers that specifically cater to this market. Your conjecture about skill and otherwise is an aside that I don't care about.

 

[Choid]

Wait, you think 1911 slides and 2011 slides are different? For real? All slide to frame needs fitting, but they are literally the same slide. lol.

Something you use to play a game is a toy. Something you use for duty is a tool. If you use guns as investments, well, I don't know what to tell you.

My only point is that 2011 makers aren't specialized because they are 2011 makers, but because they are race gun makers, and 2011s are a race gun of choice, whereas a 1911 really isn't. So, despite all of that, I think we actually agree, I just think we disagree on what the differentiator is, whether it is building a gun to run a certain way, or whether it is using one style frame or the other. Back before 2011s, fwiw, there were still competition smiths, duty guys, bullseye guys. Also guys who make heirlooms more than workpieces etc.

 

[Zak Smith]

Just scan Gunbroker for an older STI .45 if that's what you want. Sometimes a LGS will have a trade-in for cheap too

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Wait, you think 1911 slides and 2011 slides are different? For real? All slide to frame needs fitting, but they are literally the same slide. lol.

Something you use to play a game is a toy. Something you use for duty is a tool. If you use guns as investments, well, I don't know what to tell you.

My only point is that 2011 makers aren't specialized because they are 2011 makers, but because they are race gun makers, and 2011s are a race gun of choice, whereas a 1911 really isn't. So, despite all of that, I think we actually agree, I just think we disagree on what the differentiator is, whether it is building a gun to run a certain way, or whether it is using one style frame or the other. Back before 2011s, fwiw, there were still competition smiths, duty guys, bullseye guys. Also guys who make heirlooms more than workpieces etc.

Gee ever see the differences between slide length, slide sight cut, dust cover cut, serrations, wide body slide, tritops, or a slide that has a replaceable bolt face (cough SVI cough)? It's almost like there are different styles and variations common to different formats of 1911 and 2011 pistols huh. I'm still holding out hope for that 5.4" single stack .40 SW SSC tritop unicorn model that CK manufactured for a short while but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I don't "play" with guns. Ever. The tenants of gun safety and hunter training were drilled into my head. Tool. Investment. Okay sure. Guns commonly gain value not lose value, particularly rare, or, high end models. You say you are a collector, don't you agree?

Regarding your last point okay... we disagree on the second part. I'm a stop clogging up OP's thread ok.

 

[Odysseus1911]

Gee ever see the differences between slide length, slide sight cut, dust cover cut, serrations, wide body slide, tritops, or a slide that has a replaceable bolt face (cough SVI cough)? It's almost like there are different styles and variations common to different formats of 1911 and 2011 pistols huh.

Literally all those variations are seen in both the 1911 and 2011 formats -with the exception of SVI's modular bolt face (which would easily translate to 1911 application if anyone was so inclined.

It's almost as if you're so into 2011s that you didn't realize 2011s and 1911s are THE SAME GUN, other than one having a frame that accommodates double stacks!

 

[91Eunozs]

Looking for a 2011. Ideally in 45 but neither company makes them. Crazy
I’ve shot the old STI DVC Omni and liked it. Looked at a Staccato XC and was fairly impressed with fit and finish. Was few things, beaver tail fit, that weren’t perfect but I think that’s to be expected for Staccato. Additionally I shoot 147gr subs and I don’t believe the porting on the XC will have any affect. For Staccato I think I’d be leaning toward the XL. 5.5” barrel seams a little excessive.l
Haven’t played with a NightHawk but in general I think it pretty top notch.
Would love any first hand accounts.

Yes.


Kidding aside, depends on what you want? Nighthawk is a fantastic, truly hand-built 1911 show piece that you can actually shoot. The Staccato is a fantastic, great shooting carry gun that looks good too.

I’ve shot several STI flavors, but own a Staccato-C:

It’s a great shooter..slide and action is like buttah. Great little carry pistol.

The Nighthawk is in a different class though. My GA Precision model is damn near the best shooting pistol I own:

…and unlike the Staccato, I can dress it up for real-deal Tejas bbq gun duty, LoL

 

[BG94591]

Not yet in production, but I really find the Fowler Industries Vanta 9 esthetically pleasing.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

When I first shot one of the NH 2011s (had the 1 port brake, in 9mm and rmr) I thought it was going to blow my 9mm sti edge away and be amazing. But honestly, it just wasn't that much better. I'd give the finish to the nighthawk, but both were using cerakote type finish so it's kinda a wash. The NH used a steel 2011 grip which I like but isn't a revolutionary offering. The trigger wasn't any better than my edge, which isn't to say both aren't great.

I guess I just have a hard time definitively saying the NH is better. Not even factoring in that I bought my Edge new for $1750 3 years ago and the NH is alot more.

 

[FWoo45]

Budget dictates what you should get. I’m a Milks fan.

 

[epeet]

If it was me, I'd find an old double stack ParaOrdnance in .45, put a case or two through it, sell it, and have a much better idea of what I actually wanted. Double stack .45s are HEAVY, crazy heavy, and in reality give up a fair amount in terms of reliability to a Glock 21. You'll never find mags that are 100% and you'll pay $75+ a pop for the privilege to roll the dice.

Nighthawk has cornered the market on overcharging for great looking pistols. They aren't better than Wilson, Brown, Baer, or RRA, they just charge a little more (or a lot more, compared to a Baer). Some of their models are pretty unique and if you have the budget for them, you aren't likely to be disappointed until you realize you could have given an actual 1911 gunsmith the same amount of money (albeit then waited 18+ months) and had something truly exceptional. That isn't necessarily a knock, there is something to be said for making a premium product available with little or no wait.

SVI/STI/Staccato pattern guns are one of the finest incarnations of go-fast 9mm and .40 SW weapons out there. Mags can be finicky, the guns are large, but for some shooting disciplines they remain king. Do you want a fun range toy? Grab a used one and see how you like it, they are floating around out there. The Sig 320 X5 w/ tungsten frame is also a nice gateway drug that may have even more versatility. Good luck.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Literally all those variations are seen in both the 1911 and 2011 formats -with the exception of SVI's modular bolt face (which would easily translate to 1911 application if anyone was so inclined.

It's almost as if you're so into 2011s that you didn't realize 2011s and 1911s are THE SAME GUN, other than one having a frame that accommodates double stacks!

I mean I've only had 3 Les Baer, 4 Springfield Armory, a Rock Island and a Dan Wesson 1911s. Does that count or no?

BRB, I'm going to put one of those slides on my Island Channel Barrel 2011s since it's the exact same gun, no difference in common styling between the pistols right. Maybe I will throw on one of these .45 ACP slides on my 2011 CK Arms Open pistol that's designed for 9mm major see how that works.

 

[Odysseus1911]

I think you're missing the point. What you're saying is virtually the same as arguing that a series 70 and a series 80 are totally different platforms because you can't just swap parts (spoiler alert: they're the same platform). All those little details that make 2011 parts not functionally swappable with 1911s are just that: little details.

By your logic one might argue that you could never compare restoring a Camaro to restoring a Firebird because the trim is a little different (even though they have the same chassis, engine, transmission, steering, suspension, and wiring).

 

[Choid]

OMG I put the slide from my 9x23 Heinie commander on a full size 45 Series 70 and it didn't fit 1911s aren't really 1911s.

The point I, and Odysseus, are making is, I think, that in a 1911/2011, if you are starting with an in spec frame, the only parts that MUST be fitted are the thumb and grip safety, and doing this is the same on each style. After that, you'd be looking at fitting the extractor, which again is common. Even for high end custom smiths, they are usually using Extreme Engineering FCG parts that they spec. I've seen some of the best known guys in the game literally drop them in out of a bag. But again, no difference between a 2011 sear and a 1911 sear. The trigger bows are different, ob, but the shoe is 99% of the fitting and those are the same. And so on.

Now, most 2011 smiths are tuning a gun to run with a precise power factor ammo, whereas with a 1911 you are tuning to shoot at about 200 power factor but not fail at 160, but that is about building a race or duty gun, because tuning a single stack for just making major would be very much like tuning a 2011. Not a lot of island comps are done on 1911s, but there is absolutely no reason not to do one. 2011 frames are all ramped, I believe, but many 1911 frames are these days as well. There just aren't any differences in kind here, just differences in preferred outcome.

 

[Choid]

If it was me, I'd find an old double stack ParaOrdnance in .45, put a case or two through it, sell it, and have a much better idea of what I actually wanted. Double stack .45s are HEAVY, crazy heavy, and in reality give up a fair amount in terms of reliability to a Glock 21. You'll never find mags that are 100% and you'll pay $75+ a pop for the privilege to roll the dice.

Nighthawk has cornered the market on overcharging for great looking pistols. They aren't better than Wilson, Brown, Baer, or RRA, they just charge a little more (or a lot more, compared to a Baer). Some of their models are pretty unique and if you have the budget for them, you aren't likely to be disappointed until you realize you could have given an actual 1911 gunsmith the same amount of money (albeit then waited 18+ months) and had something truly exceptional. That isn't necessarily a knock, there is something to be said for making a premium product available with little or no wait.

SVI/STI/Staccato pattern guns are one of the finest incarnations of go-fast 9mm and .40 SW weapons out there. Mags can be finicky, the guns are large, but for some shooting disciplines they remain king. Do you want a fun range toy? Grab a used one and see how you like it, they are floating around out there. The Sig 320 X5 w/ tungsten frame is also a nice gateway drug that may have even more versatility. Good luck.

Not to pick nits, but that literally is not true. Brown and Wilson haven't hand fit parts for more than a decade outside of the Wilson Super Grades, which are really pricey. They both use 100% semi drop in parts. Is that a problem? Not at all, but it is decidedly different from what Nighthawk and Baer, and Alchemy for that matter, do. Now, is it a problem? Not really because machining has gotten so good that you rarely need to start with a truly oversized part like you did in the day, but it is a real distinction. Wilson even sees it as such, because for 50% more or so you can get a Supergrade.

Baers can be accurate, but interference fit guns have their own issues as well, and frankly ones I don't like to deal with.

Again, none of this is really a knock. I have an Ed Brown that is one of the very best feeling, best shooting, guns I own, and others that are nice, but they are actually much more like a very expensive Dan Wesson than they are a reasonably Nighthawk or Alchemy. Wilson also makes very reliable, very accurate guns. I hate most of what they are putting out these days, and their customer service has dropped from when it was a real strength, but the guns themselves shoot, and I can't remember the last time I saw one that did not run.

 

[Ianl931]

I have this sitting at my FFL and it have my eye on something else if interested, double stacked, never fired:





 

[England]

I am deeply impressed with how Nighthawk stands behind their work. Back in 2004, they introduced a 1911 on a titanium frame. I ordered one and received it in 2005. I had multiple issues with the pistol failing to feed or not going into battery. It went back to Nighthawk twice, but continued to have some reliability issues. I moved down to the Boise area and didn't have the gun out for a few years, but fortunately met a superb 1911 pistolsmith (Ron Sharp of Nampa, Idaho). Ron looked at it a couple times during 2012-2014 as the gun continued to be cranky. I was out shooting with Ron in 2014 and we noted that the slide seemed loose on the frame. Ron measured and the rails on the titanium frame had galled and shaved and were 0.015" undersize.

I called up Nighthawk once again and talked with Tim Lehr, who again had me return the pistol (each time, at their expense). He called me back to report that the titanium frame was a glorious idea that had failed. He then said that Nighthawk would build me a new 1911 at no charge and start work on it immediately. They promptly built me a Talon in .45 ACP and had it to my FFL in one month.

Between 2004 and that 2014 contact, Nighthawk had actually changed ownership and management. But since that pistol carried the Nighthawk name, they stood behind it 100%. A Nighthawk pistol is not cheap. But they are very well made and they absolutely stand behind their work. Tim told me that my old pistol would now live in their museum of good ideas that did not work out. My only regret is that my early Nighthawk had the coolest serial number of any gun I've owned: "NC00007." Unfortunately, I couldn't get the 007 number on the replacement pistol!

 

[GenericBadGuy]

OMG I put the slide from my 9x23 Heinie commander on a full size 45 Series 70 and it didn't fit 1911s aren't really 1911s.

How many rounds fit in that single stack mag? ToTaLlY tHe SaMe, just throw on an STI 2011 plastic grip, to that slide. It's just a little detail no big deal.

 

[Choid]

How many rounds fit in that single stack mag? ToTaLlY tHe SaMe, just throw on an STI 2011 plastic frame, to that slide. It's just a little detail no big deal.

Again, tell me which parts on a 1911 and 2011 are fitted differently. Please explain the difference in fitment. Have you ever built one, would you like me to show you how?

Also, that plastic part, it's the grip, not the frame. The upper metal part of the lower is the frame, and it is built to take 1911 FCG parts, safeties and slides. It's literally the feature of the platform, and it is awesome.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Again, tell me which parts on a 1911 and 2011 are fitted differently. Please explain the difference in fitment. Have you ever built one, would you like me to show you how?

Hey, let's go throw out some more strawman arguments. I'm excited to see us put a PT frame on your Series 70 with no 2011 reciever. That will be fun. But Muh NiGhThAwK.

 

[Choid]

Hey, let's go throw out some more strawman arguments. I'm excited to see us put a PT frame on your Series 70 with no 2011 reciever. That will be fun. But Muh NiGhThAwK.

Again, the receiver is the frame, what you are calling the frame, is a grip. LETS SEE YOU PUT 1911 GRIPS ON A 1911 SLIDE WITHOUT A 1911 LOWER!!!

I don't give a fuck about Nighthawk, fwiw. I don't give a fuck about any of these brands.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Again, the receiver is the frame, what you are calling the frame, is a grip.

I don't give a fuck about Nighthawk, fwiw. I don't give a fuck about any of these brands.

Hey sorry for mixing up the terminology, they are the exact same right since 1911=2011, a frame IS the receiver. Totally the same, just minor details right.

(I did tell you I was going to throw out more strawman arguments.)

 

[mrtoyz]

Some of the brands recommended above are really interesting. Problem is I won’t ever get my hands on them. I just don’t think I can make myself invest in a brand that I can’t fondle.

Spoke with a couple folks at NightHawk.
Both recommended bull barrel for best accuracy and recoil. Makes sense. They are telling me me the that the ports are still fairly effective with the sub sonic. Good deal.
Given that, I’m leaning toward the TRS comp from them. Honestly, I like the look of the Stacatto XC more but in my opinion it’s lacking in fit and finish. Spec’d the same, with optics cut, the TRS will be $1200’ish more. Oh and there’s the 18-24 month wait.

 

[USO-Josh]

In that Nighthawk price range, I'd be looking at ACW

Quantico HiCap - Alchemy Custom Weaponry

alchemy1911.com

The Alchemy Hi Cap is an amazing gun built by a master gunsmith. I love staccatos but they are not even close to the quality of the hi cap.
The fit and finish fantastic. I also like how it keeps the classic 1911 esthetics. I don't own one yet but have put a few hundred rounds through one and loved it.

 

[308pirate]

If I would ever get a 2011, it would be a https://ptrinity.com/

It's what the USPSA ballers in my area are running with