No love for the 300 WSM?

[rothgyr]

Looking at building my first long action cartridge for ELR specifically, and have it pretty much narrowed down to 300 WSM and 300 Norma.

I'm leaning toward the WSM based on the facts that:

• There's Lapua Brass for $1 cheaper than Norma
• 65 gr of powder vs Norma's 80ish
• Abundance of excellent load data from the BR crowd, along with a lot of records having been set at 1k with them
• I can load lighter 200s with my current stock of h4350 if I want
• I can be a hipster and do something less mainstream, I guess?
• I can shoot 220 Hybrids with the same BC as a 230 Hybrid, or if I want more BC, I can step down to the 2800 FPS node, and shoot a 230 A-Tip

As far as I can tell the biggest arguments against the WSM is that it's not any good as a short action calibur, and isn't using the potential of the long action if you go that way, but... Does it actually lose anything to a 300 WM or PRC shooting 230s?

I understand that you can push a 245 hybrid from a PRC and Win Mag, but at that point, why bother with either when you can do it more comfortably from a 300 Norma?

Is anyone on snipershide shooting a WSM? By the looks of it, it's the red headed step child of the ELR possible cartridges.

 

[XLR308]

It's not dead it just suffered like many other new cartridges have over the years.
Bring it to market let consumers get a taste and do some of the R&D for you.
Word gets around it's a real contender then ammo and Brass evaporate and the consumer moves on.
I think it's a great chambering but would probably be looking more at the 7mm short mag offerings for my own needs.

 

[Bandit320]

“Does it actually lose anything to a 300 WM or PRC shooting 230s?”. My PRC does 230 A-Tips at 2960.

 

[XLR308]

“Does it actually lose anything to a 300 WM or PRC shooting 230s?”. My PRC does 230 A-Tips at 2960.

Without running dangerous pressures or a 30" tube I don't think it can match the PRC.
But given the BC on some of the heavy 30's I would take best accuracy over a little more velocity.
The short fat powder column theoretically could hold some advantage as well but to compare them you are no longer using the WSM for its main benefit of running in a medium length action.

 

[rothgyr]

The PRC can run the 230s at 2950 - how close are you to hitting pressure there? For a 220 Hybrid, would anyone really want to be running the PRC at 3050?

 

[Bandit320]

I’m running the Hornady max load of RL-26 loaded long with a 28” barrel. Easy bolt lift and no marks on the brass.

 

[Maurygold]

ELR isn't about cost savings and that should be tossed immediatley if you actually want to shoot things over a mile with consitency.

Once you get rid of cost savings I'm not aware of any beenfit the WSM might have and don't see any lisyted above.

 

[Supersubes]

Looking at building my first long action cartridge for ELR specifically, and have it pretty much narrowed down to 300 WSM and 300 Norma.

I'm leaning toward the WSM based on the facts that:

• There's Lapua Brass for $1 cheaper than Norma
• 65 gr of powder vs Norma's 80ish
• Abundance of excellent load data from the BR crowd, along with a lot of records having been set at 1k with them
• I can load lighter 200s with my current stock of h4350 if I want
• I can be a hipster and do something less mainstream, I guess?
• I can shoot 220 Hybrids with the same BC as a 230 Hybrid, or if I want more BC, I can step down to the 2800 FPS node, and shoot a 230 A-Tip

As far as I can tell the biggest arguments against the WSM is that it's not any good as a short action calibur, and isn't using the potential of the long action if you go that way, but... Does it actually lose anything to a 300 WM or PRC shooting 230s?

View attachment 8614850

I understand that you can push a 245 hybrid from a PRC and Win Mag, but at that point, why bother with either when you can do it more comfortably from a 300 Norma?

Is anyone on snipershide shooting a WSM? By the looks of it, it's the red headed step child of the ELR possible cartridges.

Where does that 220 gr wsm data come from? Seems very optimistic.

 

[rothgyr]

Berger's BC numbers for the 220 LRHT:​

Berger 230 Hybrid:​

WSM was pretty popular loaded long for 1000yds BR from 2016 to 2020, numerous loads have been posted for 215s and 220s, especially with RL23.

Running 230s with h1000: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/300wsm-load.7030557/#post-8906888

Best powders for 300 WSM?

Some context: Have a switch barrel short action MPA BA rifle in 6.5 CM, with the West Texas Ordnance SwitchLug system. I want to make full use of the barrel switching / caliber switching capabilities of the rifle system, and get a new barrel in the largest possibly 300 cal magnum cartridge...

www.snipershide.com

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/load-data-300wsm-220-berger-lrht-and-reloader-23.4009006/

These are just two references, but google will give you a lot more. No powder manufacturers are publishing loads with 220s or 230s because the WSM is "a short action or medium action caliber".

A lot of the slow powders like Retumbo, H1000, etc. are suited to larger cases. Similar to a Dasher pushing a 115 DTAC at 2950 with Varget vs a 6X47L or 6XC pushing a 115 DTAC at 2950 with h4350. If you want 3k FPS, you'll need a big long case with slower powders (Retumbo, H1000, RL26), but if you're shooting for 2950, you can start to look at faster powders (within reason, obviously), like RL23, h4831 SC, h4350, etc.

 

[XLR308]

Berger's BC numbers for the 220 LRHT:​

View attachment 8614975

Berger 230 Hybrid:​

View attachment 8614980


WSM was pretty popular loaded long for 1000yds BR from 2016 to 2020, numerous loads have been posted for 215s and 220s, especially with RL23.

Running 230s with h1000: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/300wsm-load.7030557/#post-8906888

Best powders for 300 WSM?

Some context: Have a switch barrel short action MPA BA rifle in 6.5 CM, with the West Texas Ordnance SwitchLug system. I want to make full use of the barrel switching / caliber switching capabilities of the rifle system, and get a new barrel in the largest possibly 300 cal magnum cartridge...

www.snipershide.com

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/load-data-300wsm-220-berger-lrht-and-reloader-23.4009006/

These are just two references, but google will give you a lot more. No powder manufacturers are publishing loads with 220s or 230s because the WSM is "a short action or medium action caliber".

A lot of the slow powders like Retumbo, H1000, etc. are suited to larger cases. Similar to a Dasher pushing a 115 DTAC at 2950 with Varget vs a 6X47L or 6XC pushing a 115 DTAC at 2950 with h4350. If you want 3k FPS, you'll need a big long case with slower powders (Retumbo, H1000, RL26), but if you're shooting for 2950, you can start to look at faster powders (within reason, obviously), like RL23, h4831 SC, h4350, etc.

It Is absolutely servicable just not optimal is what everyone is saying considering you would already be switching to a long action for it to reach it's potential.
Atleast you would already be set up with the action and stock if you scratch that itch and realize you need a little more horse power.

 

[chase723]

300WSM is a great long range round as people have already mentioned. However, if you’re looking to build a legit dedicated ELR rig then there are much better options. A big factor to consider, which you have touched on, is the fact that when you step up to Lapua bolt faces things start to get more expensive. They get WAY more expensive when you step up to Cheytac bolt faces, and you have to invest in a completely new reloading setup. In ELR, mag feeding is irrelevant and you’re almost certainly going to be reloading, so if you’re looking to maximize performance on a standard magnum bolt face that you can reload on a normal reloading press, that will give you excellent trace and ground signature to spot impacts/misses you would be hard pressed to beat the 375 RUM shooting 390gr A-tips. A 32” barrel and N570 will get you 2820fps. Where I live with a DA of 5000ft, it remains super sonic to 2450 yards.

 

[NightStash]

The comparisons you did stop basically where true ELR starts. The closest light gun target at Spear Point starts around 1700 yards out to 2913 yards.

 

[wvfarrier]

I have been a fan of 300wsm for as long as I can remember but finally transitioned over to 300prc and do not have any regrets

 

[six67]

The 300WSM isn’t bad. It is, however, limited by the cartridge overall lengths that fit into a short action, relative to the length of a modern high-performance bullet. If you bump up into an intermediate class action that can accept cartridge lengths around 3.200”, and set up hand loads, it’s very difficult to beat that performance on big game in that general rifle weight. If. Otherwise, your ballistic performance is comparable to 6.5 Creedmoor with slightly more energy on target.

Just get a 6.5 Creedmoor to start off with. Much less expensive and much more pleasant to shoot.

 

[Paul1262]

I have been a fan of 300wsm for as long as I can remember but finally transitioned over to 300prc and do not have any regrets

Fully agree with choice of 300 PRC.

 

[Long Range 338]

With Lapua now making 300 WSM brass, it is absolutely not the red headed stepchild. The F Class guys are the ones really pushing it if I’m not mistaken. In a long action you’ll be able to wring out as much performance as possible.

It it will not keep up with the larger cartridges at ELR distances. You just don’t have the case capacity. You can compare a 30” WSM to a 26” Norma and pretend but if you build the guns equally it’s obvious why the bigger cases exist.

There’s no replacement for displacement.

 

[powdahound76]

300 WSM is awesome in a SA for a light hunter.
Im running 200 gr bullets at 2816 fps from 24” barrel and SA mag length.
SD 7 over 50+ shots.
Very accurate


I would not build one vs a 300 Norma or maybe PRC for plans of ELR.

 

[375fan]

This may not be popular with what I'm about to say but ELR starts at a mile and the majority of dedicated ELR shooters will say the same thing.
My first couple ELR matches that was made clear to me by the hard core ELR shooters.
Anyway, 300WSM is a nice round for hunting but for ELR you have to start with a big .30 with heavy bullets.
I use a 300prc for light division, 338LM for heavy.

 

[Paul1262]

This may not be popular with what I'm about to say but ELR starts at a mile and the majority of dedicated ELR shooters will say the same thing.
My first couple ELR matches that was made clear to me by the hard core ELR shooters.
Anyway, 300WSM is a nice round for hunting but for ELR you have to start with a big .30 with heavy bullets.
I use a 300prc for light division, 338LM for heavy.

Curious to know how the 300 PRC did in the light division?

 

[375fan]

Curious to know how the 300 PRC did in the light division?

230-ATIPS@2940. Could be me or maybe load but out to 1900 things seem ok ( provided can get the wind right and my spotter and I can see misses) after that hit ratio goes down quite a bit I'll admit. Again, could be me, maybe the load. I've done a limited number of of matches last couple years. We'll see what happens with more matches under my belt with this setup.
Have noticed the serious ELR shooters using big stuff, 375, 408, 416, etc. can have their hands full trying to make consistent hits at 1900-2000 and farther at times. I enjoy the challenge.

 

[Paul1262]

230-ATIPS@2940. Could be me or maybe load but out to 1900 things seem ok ( provided can get the wind right and my spotter and I can see misses) after that hit ratio goes down quite a bit I'll admit. Again, could be me, maybe the load. I've done a limited number of of matches last couple years. We'll see what happens with more matches under my belt with this setup.
Have noticed the serious ELR shooters using big stuff, 375, 408, 416, etc. can have their hands full trying to make consistent hits at 1900-2000 and farther at times. I enjoy the challenge.

Thanks for the info.