Noob problems - chambering after resizing

[KeeblerArmy]

Hi,
Here is my story, I'm using Hornady dies (.308) with a RCBS single stage press. After making a handful of rounds, I discovered that none of them would chamber at all, the bolt just would not close.

I discovered that if I raised the arm of the press up all the way, and then used a wrench to tighten down the die, that seemed to fix the problem. (Confirmed by taking a case that would not chamber, rerunning it and then chambering it successfully.) Before I was just finger screwing the die down until it touched the shell holder.

But 1/3 or so of the cases still are not chambering properly. I had to test a crap ton of cases to sort out the ones that were chambering from the ones that were not.

I suspect that the amount of lube present might have been a factor. I did not put additional lube in the case necks since the die had plenty of residual and some of the cases did as well. As the residual lube rubbed off the die the cases started to get harder to run. That is when I spot checked again and discovered I still had a problem.

So long winded intro to the simple question, could a lack of lubrication on the brass cause this problem or is there something else afoot?


Thanks for the input.

The good news is my bolt is getting nice and broken in

 

[redgtsviper]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

Did you check the length of your cases after you resize. Them may need to be trimmed

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

Was the brass fired in other chambers before you tried to size and fire in this one? Your issue is usually caused by not bumping the shoulder enough or the need for a small base die if it is brass from other chambers (like going from factory/NATO to custom).

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

The cases went from factory to being fired in this rifle. I am pretty sure the problem is at the shoulder. A friend and I marked one piece of brass to figure out where it was getting stuck and it was at the shoulder. All the rest of the measurements were in spec.

DF: I did not retrim the cases after this second go around but the first batch I did were trimmed to size.

 

[264win]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

the most common problems are case being to long [stretching],and not setting the die properly .if you dont have a way to mesure your cases , just set compare one that fits to one that doesnt ,its not he best way but may help .next read the directions on how to set the dies .
does a bullet slide into the cases after their resized ?

 

[Hummer]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

This is a fairly common problem and I suspect it is because the shoulder of the case has not been bumped back.
Run die down till it contacts shell holder. Put case in and run it up in die and look closely at the base of die when case is run all the way up in it. If you have a visible air space between shell holder and die back it down and loosen die ring and turn die in 1/8th turn. You should feel a little hard spot next time you run case in as this SHOULD be contacting shoulder at the top of the travel.
Try these cases in rifle, it if closes fine you are good to go.
If you are still getting resistance to closing try the case again and see if you have the gap between the shell holder and if opening has closed up. If not give it another 1/8th turn and retry cases.
If you have no gap between shell holder and die and still have hard closing you have five options.

1. send die back to maker with shell holder and half a dozen cases and they should adjust it but you will be out shipping.
2. you can get some coarse emery cloth, lay on a flat surface and rub top of shell holder and take off about .005". Measure height of shell holder first and then intermittantly while you are removing material. Get this from Mill Supply places or bum some from a machinest buddy.
3. you can chuck die in lathe and take .010" off bottom of die and re-radius bottom of die on the inside like it was originally.
I have a lathe so I do this option.
4. Spend a bunch of bucks and get a set of pre ground shell holders of differing heights from vendors.
5. I understand the Lee shell holders are a hair thinner and are relatively inexpensive and you can get an entire range for different calibers.

You will have to go all through he adjustment stage again and you want to stop the downward move of the die as soon as the bolt closes easily or with very slight resistance.

If you are using a gas gun or pump best set it for easy close.

To remove all doubt get a L.E. Wilson case gage, (Midway, Sinclair has them and others???) There are directions for its use. It will tell you the proper shoulder set back min and max and overall case length min and max as well as tell you if the body is sized enough.

I have about 53 sets of dies and I have had to trim about fifteen of them.

If you have a micrometer measure the fired case .200" up from case rim. It should read .471 to .473 in fired condition. FL sized cases should measure .468/.469" at this same point.
Note commercial 308 unfired generally measures .465 where Lake City milspec ammo measures .468.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

Thanks for the detailed tips guys, I'll report back when I get a chance to try it out.

 

[Country]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

Might just be that the necks gripping as the case is backed out of the die and this is stretching the shoulder forward on some casese but not all . So varying results occur. This happens a lot with old style full length sizer dies with expander balls on the decapping rod.

The absolute best cure is to seperate the case sizing operations.
Neck size seperately and body size to gain correct chamber fit and shoulder bump if required with a Redding body die.

Other than that try polishing up your cases with fine steel wool to reduce case friction.
Lube with a quality case lube like RCBS.
Sett the die using a batch of 10 or so cases that don't chamber not just one case.
Adjust the die down untill all the cases just chamber then adjust it 1/8 of a turn more.
Then size all your cases and try them all in the gun.
They should all fit easy.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

Update: It appears that I did not have the die screwed down far enough. I took the advice here and screwed it down a .25 turn or so past where the die and the ram met and that fixed the problem. I did check by chambering all 200 something pieces of brass to make sure there weren't any problems.

Edit: Forgot to add, Country: A second email I got from Hornady described the same thing where the shoulder can get snagged on the way out. His recommendation was to dip just the neck in some powdered graphite to give it a little lube. I know I have some of that stuff around here somewhere but couldn't find it. I'll try it for sure in the future.

Thanks for your help all.

 

[Graham]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

Measuring the case is the only way to know for sure what is or isn't happening. Buy a proper datum line comparator tool, from Sinclair. Attach it to a caliper and set the sizing die for a measured amount of shoulder bump. And lube the inside of the case necks. Imperial sizing wax works fine for that.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

Noted. I figured there must have been a tool to measure the angle of the shoulders but didn't know what it was. Sounds like this is it.

 

[Graham]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

Stoney Point (Hornady) has one as well. It's just a bullet comparator with a large inside diameter to step doen on the shoulder of the case. Remember to decap before using the tool, so the primer doesn't corrupt the reading. It measures the datum line of the shoulder.

 

[Country]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KeeblerArmy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Update: It appears that I did not have the die screwed down far enough. I took the advice here and screwed it down a .25 turn or so past where the die and the ram met and that fixed the problem. I did check by chambering all 200 something pieces of brass to make sure there weren't any problems.

Edit: Forgot to add, Country: A second email I got from Hornady described the same thing where the shoulder can get snagged on the way out. His recommendation was to dip just the neck in some powdered graphite to give it a little lube. I know I have some of that stuff around here somewhere but couldn't find it. I'll try it for sure in the future.

Thanks for your help all. </div></div>
I thought that might be the problem , its a combination of case stretch on the way out and press stretch on the way in.
Even though you set the die skirt on the shell holder when the full sizing pressure is applied the press may stretch a bit leaving a gap between the die skirt and shell holder. In some cases the combination of the two means you have to oversize somewhat to come out right. Certain press types and materials are worse than others. Body dies cure these problems and are ideal for a press with limited leverage and made from stretchy materials or design .

 

[The_Punisher]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

Not that it was the problem, but polishing the die with some JB paste on a cleaning rod in a drill for 10 secs makes FL sizing alot easier. (disassemble, polish, clean,)Cases wont stick, less lube needed, easier to diagnose issues.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

"..polishing the die with some JB paste on a cleaning rod in a drill for 10 secs makes FL sizing alot easier."

That's a common observation but in my experiece it doesn't seem to work that way.

I haven't done a scientific measurement of lever pressure but after having mirror polished quite a few sizers and them doing some others with a satin finish it seems the mirror surface is less "slick." I suspect that the lube, mine anyway, stays in the tiny surface scratches better and that makes sizing easier for me. ?? Anyway, I reworked all of my sizers to a satin finish a year ago and am quite happy.

 

[Country]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_Punisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not that it was the problem, but polishing the die with some JB paste on a cleaning rod in a drill for 10 secs makes FL sizing alot easier. (disassemble, polish, clean,)Cases wont stick, less lube needed, easier to diagnose issues. </div></div>
Yes absolutely right . Some dies I have owned over the years look like they were made with just a blunt old twist drill.
A good polish up does wonders at times.
I had a better solution back in 1965 . I cut the top of the Full Length die with an angle grinder and ground out the neck area with a dremmel to produce what I believed was the worlds first Body die.
I still have some hanging around some place.
I have not used full length sizing in one step since in most of my bolt guns . Except one that shot better with a FL size and jamed into the lands . I think it had a crooked chamber.

 

[Country]

Re: Noob problems - chambering after resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"..polishing the die with some JB paste on a cleaning rod in a drill for 10 secs makes FL sizing alot easier."

That's a common observation but in my experiece it doesn't seem to work that way.

I haven't done a scientific measurement of lever pressure but after having mirror polished quite a few sizers and them doing some others with a satin finish it seems the mirror surface is less "slick." I suspect that the lube, mine anyway, stays in the tiny surface scratches better and that makes sizing easier for me. ?? Anyway, I reworked all of my sizers to a satin finish a year ago and am quite happy. </div></div>
I don't think he is talking about polishing to a mirror surface mate. He is talking about smoothing up bad reamer or even drill marks that some bad dies have.
You are correct though about the perfectly smooth surface it does not seem to hold the lube as well or something like that .
I think as the surface gets smoother better lubricants are needed that take higher pressures at thinner films.