Nosler 6.5 Brass failing

[Pewpew12]

Hey all- I was initially stoked to find some 6.5 brass from nosler on the shelves but after just one firing most of these cases look completely toast.

they’re separating and cracking at the base with a known safe load that’s significantly below max pressure. COL is 2.76” so they aren’t loaded too short.

some of these look like they about blew up. Anybody else experience crap brass from nosler? Maybe hornady brass spoiled me but I’m used to at least 5 reloads before seeing this kind of failure.

check out the deep ring near the base—. That goes 80% around the case and is split open

 

[wpeach1912]

Did you do new load development? Different brass will handle pressure differently

 

[6.5SH]

COAL isn't the only thing that makes a round "too short". Did you size these first? If so did you you use a comparator or case gauge to measure your shoulder setback?

If the shoulder wasn't moved do you have a borescope? If so examine the inside of some of the unfired brass.

 

[Supersubes]

you have a headspace comparator? Can you compare a virgin case to the cracked ones?

 

[Pewpew12]

Thanks for the quick responses.

wpeach1912- no load dev. I switched from hornady brass and kept the rest the same. I’m using 44 gr of superperf at about 30 degrees so it shouldn’t be enough pressure to blow these cases in half, I’m showing no other overpressure pressure signs

6.5sh—the brass was all sized down to 1.91, deburred and chamfered. I don’t have a boroscope but I did use the ole bent paper flip feeler trick and most of these are trash after one firing. Most have similar hairline cracking or excessive wear from bludging in the same area of the cases where the pictured crack is.

Supersubes- I’ve only got an my ogive socket for my comparator Sounds like i might need to check my shoulder setback

 

[TxWelder35]

Thanks for the quick responses.

wpeach1912- no load dev. I switched from hornady brass and kept the rest the same. I’m using 44 gr of superperf at about 30 degrees so it shouldn’t be enough pressure to blow these cases in half, I’m showing no other overpressure pressure signs

6.5sh—the brass was all sized down to 1.91, deburred and chamfered. I don’t have a boroscope but I did use the ole bent paper flip feeler trick and most of these are trash after one firing. Most have similar hairline cracking or excessive wear from bludging in the same area of the cases where the pictured crack is.

Supersubes- I’ve only got an my ogive socket for my comparator Sounds like i might need to check my shoulder setback

Usually a failure like that is excessive headspace unless you are WAY over pressure

 

[Pewpew12]

Usually a failure like that is excessive headspace unless you are WAY over pressure

That would make a lot on sense. Too much headspace and allowing that brass to expand within the chamber. To the point its splitting

glad there isn’t .0001 more space, these are close to total failure

that would account for the total lack of other pressure signs too

time to buy a setback socket for the comparator. I’m probably mashing this brass too much and setting the neck back too far.

Excellent advice gents thank you. At least this only cost me 50 pieces of brass and nothing worse

 

[supercorndogs]

Usually a failure like that is excessive headspace unless you are WAY over pressure

Way over pressure doest do that either. It expands the case head and blows the primer out. That is headspace on the first firing, the question, is the brass too short, or is the chamber too long? Either way, with a light load and a heavy jam into the lands they could be fire formed.

O.P you should have stopped shooting those after 1, I know you had to have some heavy bolt lift associated with that, and head space is going to be your cause. The brass looks in an extremely rough chamber or die. Is it from your chamber, or did you run it though a die before loading.

What is your set up? Have you confirmed headspace via a headspace gauge, or anecdotally by firing other brass for multiple firings and it doest do this??

 

[Steel head]

you have a headspace comparator? Can you compare a virgin case to the cracked ones?

this!!!
Always seems this is caused by a sizing and/or headspace issue.

 

[spife7980]

So you took virgin brass that’s already on the minimum side of spec, sized it further without actually measuring anything sizing related, and are wondering why they are separating when they stretch to fill the chamber?

 

[Pewpew12]

Way over pressure doest do that either. It expands the case head and blows the primer out. That is headspace on the first firing, the question, is the brass too short, or is the chamber too long? Either way, with a light load and a heavy jam into the lands they could be fire formed.

O.P you should have stopped shooting those after 1, I know you had to have some heavy bolt lift associated with that, and head space is going to be your cause. The brass looks in an extremely rough chamber or die. Is it from your chamber, or did you run it though a die before loading.

What is your set up? Have you confirmed headspace via a headspace gauge, or anecdotally by firing other brass for multiple firings and it doest do this??

Somehow this didn’t equate to a rough extraction in the slightest. I didn’t even notice there was a problem until I closely inspected my brass for reloading

they were probably stretching enough straight back and there wasn’t the typical resistance you’d experience with overpressure

 

[918v]

Thanks for the quick responses.

wpeach1912- no load dev. I switched from hornady brass and kept the rest the same. I’m using 44 gr of superperf at about 30 degrees so it shouldn’t be enough pressure to blow these cases in half, I’m showing no other overpressure pressure signs

6.5sh—the brass was all sized down to 1.91, deburred and chamfered. I don’t have a boroscope but I did use the ole bent paper flip feeler trick and most of these are trash after one firing. Most have similar hairline cracking or excessive wear from bludging in the same area of the cases where the pictured crack is.

Supersubes- I’ve only got an my ogive socket for my comparator Sounds like i might need to check my shoulder setback

You can use a 9mm or 40 pistol case to measure shoulder bump.

 

[Pewpew12]

So you took virgin brass that’s already on the minimum side of spec, sized it further without actually measuring anything sizing related, and are wondering why they are separating when they stretch to fill the chamber?

I measure everything except setback. These actually came a bit long from the factory -1.92 and more. That trimming definitely exacerbated the problem.

almost a costly learning experience

 

[Pewpew12]

You can use a 9mm or 40 pistol case to measure shoulder bump.

Great idea here. Hornady doesn’t need any more of my money in reloading accessory sales!

 

[Pewpew12]

Way over pressure doest do that either. It expands the case head and blows the primer out. That is headspace on the first firing, the question, is the brass too short, or is the chamber too long? Either way, with a light load and a heavy jam into the lands they could be fire formed.

O.P you should have stopped shooting those after 1, I know you had to have some heavy bolt lift associated with that, and head space is going to be your cause. The brass looks in an extremely rough chamber or die. Is it from your chamber, or did you run it though a die before loading.

What is your set up? Have you confirmed headspace via a headspace gauge, or anecdotally by firing other brass for multiple firings and it doest do this??

Headspace confirmed w go/no-go and running the action with the firing pin out

I’m pretty confident I’m mashing these too firmly into my sizing die and moving the shoulder back too far. These were formed on a new hornady match die and I fear I have the sizing set to the point where it was squashing the brass

no issues with factory ammo or my hornady brass in the same gun

 

[spife7980]

I measure everything except setback. These actually came a bit long from the factory -1.92 and more. That trimming definitely exacerbated the problem.

almost a costly learning experience

Exactly. So you didnt measure then.
"I measured everything except the stuff that matters" is how that reads to everyone else.

1.920 as an overall length is basically useless. Overall length isnt the problem... well basically ever. You problem is you folded body material into the shoulder and shoulder into the neck when you sized and then shoved the whole thing forward stretching your case webs when you pulled the trigger.

 

[Steel head]

Exactly. So you didnt measure then.
"I measured everything except the stuff that matters" is how that reads to everyone else.

1.920 as an overall length is basically useless. Overall length isnt the problem... well basically ever. You problem is you folded body material into the shoulder and shoulder into the neck when you sized and then shoved the whole thing forward stretching your case webs when you pulled the trigger.

 

[Pewpew12]

View attachment 7614607

I’m in agreement with y’all on this one. Like I said— Learning experience for sure, glad it didn’t cost me more

This equates ignorance on my part.

My biggest mistake here from any other rookie (like myself) to learn from:

I thought the sizing die would not allow me to mash the brass below minimum spec due to the bottom of the sizing die bottoming out against the case holder.

That’s just not true. I wasn’t aware and it could have been ugly

I gotta say I’m blown away by the detail and knowledge here. Thanks again to you all for the input.

 

[Supersubes]

I’m in agreement with y’all on this one. Like I said— Learning experience for sure, glad it didn’t cost me more

This equates ignorance on my part.

My biggest mistake here from any other rookie (like myself) to learn from:

I thought the sizing die would not allow me to mash the brass below minimum spec due to the bottom of the sizing die bottoming out against the case holder.

That’s just not true. I wasn’t aware and it could have been ugly

I gotta say I’m blown away by the detail and knowledge here. Thanks again to you all for the input.

Yes, your assumption is the very reason FL sizing got a bad rap. Some dies are chambered so short you can barely get the sizing you need out of them, while some will knock the shoulder back .020. Shell holders vary as well, and allow more or less bump.

 

[TxWelder35]

My Redding type S FL sizer will mash the brass like .040 past spec. Push them back so far is completely deforms the whole bottle neck area.

 

[Steel head]

Yes, your assumption is the very reason FL sizing got a bad rap. Some dies are chambered so short you can barely get the sizing you need out of them, while some will knock the shoulder back .020. Shell holders vary as well, and allow more or less bump.

Yep
Gotta check everything!
That includes go and no go gauges

 

[FLIGHT762]

Great idea here. Hornady doesn’t need any more of my money in reloading accessory sales!

A Hornady .375 C insert for your 6.5 CM is $10.00. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012729396

Sounds like you already have the Body (holder) for the insert. I'm sure that Nosler brass was worth more than $10.00. You can try the 9mm or 40 case route & see if you get consistent readings.

 

[918v]

A Hornady .375 C insert for your 6.5 CM is $10.00. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012729396

Sounds like you already have the Body (holder) for the insert. I'm sure that Nosler brass was worth more than $10.00. You can try the 9mm or 40 case route & see if you get consistent readings.

You get more consistent readings using a pistol case.

 

[Steel head]

You get more consistent readings using a pistol case.

I actually make my own custom HS gauges out of brass.
More consistent than the aluminum ones.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

Not the first time that I have heard of a Hornady die setting shoulders back too far when following the instructions. I had one in .223 that set the case shoulder back .030 shorter than min. They all fired, and they all got a ring. Couple of my reloading friends have had the same issue at different times with different calibers.

All of us just canned the dies and went to Forster and never looked back.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I measure everything except setback. These actually came a bit long from the factory -1.92 and more. That trimming definitely exacerbated the problem.

almost a costly learning experience

Trimming had and has nothing to do with your case seperating.

Trimming controls the total length of your brass.


As Spife and others have pointed out, you created a headspace issue (by oversizing your new brass) and the brass has to eventually fit the chamber as part of the firing sequence.
To get the shoulder (the datum line is basically the middle of the shoulder)to move back into place, brass will flow from just in front of the solid web.
That's why your cases are seperating.
You have a serious headspace issue....

Now, on to another issue that you mentioned.
You said you get 4-5 loadings on your brass before it's trash.

Do you have any idea why that might be?
Probably not.

If your cases are seperating after a few loadings, then you have created a headspace issue.

If your primer pockets are loose, then you are way over pressure.


(You have both problems)


Even those cheap Hornady cases will last for a dozen firings. Most will last longer than that if you aren't hammering them with 70k+ psi.

It sounds to me like you need to go back to the basics and learn terminology first, brass prep and then basic loading techniques.

Every loading manual out there goes into the basics of everything needed to make reliable and SAFE reloads.
I would suggest that you stop everything you are doing, pour a coffee or tea and read your loading manual.
Maybe read the front sections a couple of times until you have an understanding of what you are doing, and the cause and effect of it.

Once you do that, separate the different things that constitute reloading and get each one correct before you complete your next cartridge.

Don't use someone else's internet loading data.

^^^^^^^^^^ Read that ten more times.

Stop chasing velocity. If you want more velocity, move to a larger cartridge.