Not impressed with ELDX terminal performance

E

Eurodriver

Sergeant of the Hide
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Minuteman
Oct 21, 2011
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#1
I have shot two bucks this season with 143gr ELDX out of a 6.5CM. 42.1gr RL16 in Lapua brass.

The freak 6pt was shot in the lungs at 175y and the 9pt was shot somewhat quartering to me in the neck/shoulder joint at 90y. Both rounds exploded upon impact. The 9pt didn’t even have an exit wound or a single drop of blood. If he ran I doubt I would’ve been able to find him. The 6pt left a rather impressive exit wound but there is jacket everywhere.

Looking at the Terminal Ascent bullets but it appears they don’t have components for those yet in 6.5mm - unless there are better recommendations here?

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#3
Ranchhand said:
They both look like the bullets worked. I see no problem.
Nice bucks by the way, congratulations.
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And that’s the irony. The bullets did work - they are dead and one even died where he stood. So I feel kind of ridiculous making this thread but I also know they didn’t behave internally as a bullet should and I worry about boogering up a future kill if I stuck with this.
 
#4
What’s your end goal? Or ideal bullet performance? I’ve killed deer with eldx and eldm’s. They performed exactly as I wanted them to. Deer died very quickly. I’ve killed deer with bergers. Similar performance. I’ve used core lock and other bonded bullets. I feel for heavier animals you do need a tougher bullet. Remember shot placement is always key. You did a great job. So did your bullet.
 
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#5
I haven’t shot deer with the ELDX yet. But I have killed plenty with the AMAX. Never had a problem with the jackets blowing apart on those. Good blood trails. Maybe because your hitting game “closer in” the bullet traveling too fast and fragmenting? Just an idea

FWIW the Berger VLD hunting bullets have performed well for me. As well as the Sierra Game Changers
 
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#6
Ideal bullet performance for me would be a bullet retaining most of its weight while expanding as much as possible.

But if you guys think the bullets are performing acceptably (again I realize the irony here) I don’t want to change something just for the sake of change. I was under the impression a fragmenting bullet was no bueno on deer sized game and up and I worry about hitting a shoulder or big bone mass and not getting adequate penetration.
 
#9
EldX were also too soft for my use is a 6.5 CM. Had one blow up on a doe’s shoulder at 285 yards. This was factory ammo from a Tikka so is was cruising just above the speed of smell and still opened too quickly.
 
#10
Eurodriver said:
Ideal bullet performance for me would be a bullet retaining most of its weight while expanding as much as possible.

But if you guys think the bullets are performing acceptably (again I realize the irony here) I don’t want to change something just for the sake of change. I was under the impression a fragmenting bullet was no bueno on deer sized game and up and I worry about hitting a shoulder or big bone mass and not getting adequate penetration.
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Not the first time this has come up. Your shots were on the close side, with a high impact velocity. I have a group of customers that are polarized about that bullet. The guys who take long shots tend to like it better, which makes sense, those bullets are slower on impact and end up retaining weight. The Nosler 142 ABLR has an identical BC to the 143, and is similarly fragile fyi.

Try the barnes 127 LRX if you want weight retention. I haven't met a gun that doesn't shoot them well yet. I have two customers that switched to them (from the ABLR) this year, and they’ve had nothing but bang flop kills so far out to just beyond 600 yds.
 
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#11
This is the cartridge my son uses. I don't how it performs on deer yet but I used his rifle to shoot a porcupine from 30 feet below it. I expected the bullet to go right through it and for it to fall to the ground, instead it exploded into 3 pieces. So I suspect not an ideal bullet for meat animals at short ranges. If your bullet placement is good, I can't imagine a scenario where you would lose the animal or even have to track it any meaningful distance so there's that.
 
#12
Eurodriver said:
Ideal bullet performance for me would be a bullet retaining most of its weight while expanding as much as possible.

But if you guys think the bullets are performing acceptably (again I realize the irony here) I don’t want to change something just for the sake of change. I was under the impression a fragmenting bullet was no bueno on deer sized game and up and I worry about hitting a shoulder or big bone mass and not getting adequate penetration.
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If that’s what you want look at Barnes triple shocks, Nosler Accubonds, Sierra Game Changers, Nosler Partitions.

I’ve drilled white tail right in the shoulder with the AMAX and they have dropped like a piano hit em. Even hit one with a 6mm Amax out of a 6 Ackley going 3900fps and the deer fell like lightening hit it. Shot placement matters for sure. But unless your going after Elk, moose, bear, pigs….anything with thicker hide….I wouldnt worry too much about bullets coming apart if you’re recovering your kills.
 
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#13
I remember my first big buck. I shot it with a 30/06 from about 40 yards off a bipod. It woke up and lifted its head when I brushed a sunflower leveling my bipod. LOL. 165g Seira soft point, didn't go all the way through. I didn't have any trouble finding him though, he never even stood up.

I agree, preferably I want a full pass though. I want to penetrate as much vitals as possible. But sometimes it doesn't matter.

I think I had a 53vmax splash like that out of a 1 in 9 22-250 on my first bobcat. I though I hit it good, it dropped like a rock. It didn't move for a bit while I watched it. I put my stuff down and headed over to get it, and all I find when I get there was a little puddle of blood where it dropped. I spent all afternoon looking for it. And never found another track or spot of blood.
 
#14
A lot of guys in my area prefer the ELDM over the ELDX and we’re talking mule deer and elk. All I can say is know your bullet and take your shot appropriately. If I were shooting Barnes bullets I would aim for bone, if I’m worried about jacket separation I would go for the vitals. And of course distance has to be a consideration.
 
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#16
I've seen very few instances where the ELD-X was even as good a performer as a darned core-lokt until distances get longer than I like to shoot game at. Seems like it's kinda fragile which one would expect but that means that up close that bullet is going to fragment like a bitch (as everyone has experienced) and that's going to reduce penetration pretty dramatically. I guess people ignore the ELD part and just read the X part.
 
#18
Congrats on the bucks. Glad it worked out.

Advice is not worth a darn if the bullets are as available as unicorns, so I won't give any since it doesn't help if you can't find them for years at a time...
 
#19
I picked up some of the Norma 143 Bondstrikes and hopefully they will hold together, do damage, and get me an exit hole for better blood trails. I will try them in my 6.5 PRC. From what I have seen in some jell tests, they do a good job out to 800 yards.
 
#20
If you want a good time, hop on MidwayUSA and read the bad reviews of every brand of hunting bullet. You will never make everyone happy. lol

If you like punching through shoulder/leg bones and want deep penetration I'd look at Barnes, CX/GMX, etc.

Any non-bonded cup&core bullet inside of 200yd, especially from high(er) velocity cartridges and magnums is probably going to shed cores with some regularity. Interlock rings and tapered jackets help but the use-case envelope is very wide for impact velocity and what is being impacted. Bones are harder on bullets than soft organ/lung tissue.

Bonded bullets hold together better but are nigh impossible to make as consistently accurate as cup&core non-bonded. The bonding process anneals the jackets, too. IME lots of copper fouling, not the greatest groups, but often good enough for hunting ranges (depends on what that means to you).

The ones that really make no sense to me are the "hunting" OTM style bullets. As near as I can tell they are identical to the "match" bullets just in a different box. At least with tipped bullets (even match bullets) the tip offers some mechanism for consistent expansion initiation. My experience shooting 10% Ordnance gel with BTHP/OTM style bullets has shown very erratic terminal results.

I've shot mostly Remington and Hornady for hunting and always go for lung and heart shots, never had a problem with animals not dying. I'll echo a previous post here, Shot placement is king.
 
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#21
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#22
The last two mule deer I’ve killed have been as follows.
1 at 370 yards with a Berger 6.5mm 140 hybrid at 2650 fps muzzle velocity (~2100 impact velocity). He was slightly quartering towards me, and the shot went through both lungs, and I suspect the heart (I didn’t confirm that). He went about 20 yards, and had a solid line of blood leading right to him. I’ll include a picture of the blood trail.

The other was 315 yards with a Hornady 30 cal 208 eldm at 2700 fps muzzle velocity (~2350 impact velocity). The shot hit the shoulder/front leg joint, and continued through and exited just in front of the opposite shoulder (quartering away shot). I didn’t take any pictures, but again, massive amounts of blood coming out of both the exit and entrance wounds. I lost about 2 lbs of meat due to my shot placement, but that’s on me.

By contrast, I killed an elk a number of years ago with a 7mm Rem Mag and federal fusion 175gr bullets. I took a shot at about 100 yards through the lungs. There was no blood trail to speak of, and while gutting it, I was surprised by how little damage the bullet actually did.

Of course this is all anecdotal at best, so take from it what you will.
 
#24
Sooooo. I too had what I suspect was a blow up of an ELD-X on a buck last season.

Biggest rack on a buck I've shot, but he probably wasn't the biggest bodied deer. I say probably because I lost him.

Right off of my house at 260 - 270 yards. I didn't even bother ranging him because he was standing on my "range", next to my 250 yard tree from my firing point in the shop...add 12 yards because I had got down in the prone position next to my bedroom.

Cartridge: 7mm RM
Bullet: 150gr ELD-x (probably too light)
Velocity: 3,005 FPS MV (not fast)
Accuracy: Averages .6 - .7 MOA all day

Dude was quartering hard to me and looking at a doe that just ran into the woods. Rather than lose him, I took the same shot that I've had 3:3 success with, with my .308 and the 165gr NBT (another set of stories.

Already dialed and checked wind. Put the crosshairs on the shoulder/neck spine junction and let fly.

I watched the bullet hit right where I was aiming (good brake). Literally a big puff of hair shot up, and his body dropped like a sack as good as any hunting show has ever filmed... but his head kept trying to get up. With a slight rise covering his body now, I couldn't put another into him. Like an idiot, I put my boots on and raced over to deliver the finishing shot. I came up on him and he was laying motionless... I figured he'd expired, so I walked up closer. All of a sudden he shot up and jumped into the woods when I got to ~15 yards. I assume he heard me, and I should have fired an assurance shot into him the moment I saw him laying when I got within 60 yards.

^ I Monday quarterback myself on that shot and recovery every time I think about it. Dudes have been killed assuming game was dead, but I would have never just walked up and grabbed him...I've killed hundreds upon hundreds of hogs in the dark, no way do I assume something is dead just because it isn't moving.

Like I said. 3 shots, and 3 dead bucks using the exact same hold/hard angle and a 165gr NBT out if a .308. No steps ever taken. Ranges were ~75, 80, and 173 yards.

I've since switched to the 150gr ABLR.
 
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#25
Hecouldgoalltheway said:
Look at these two dead bucks, one died where he stood and the other ran for 3 seconds after the shot..

Must change bullets, cannot have these results again.

And I thought I was picky.
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You know, I think you have some truth here.

I guess I wanted a do it all round if I were to go take elk but I’m sure the ELDX at elk distances is fine.

It’s certainly fine for SE white tails. I mean look at this exit wound. Why am I switching? But then you read stories like the above and see those same small SE white tail deer that didn’t even have an exit wound and wonder what the heck is the best way to go.

i just don’t want to lose a trophy because my bullet grenaded at only 4”.

708B2F42-94B0-4424-B534-704DC1FCDBD4.jpeg
 
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#26
Eurodriver said:
You know, I think you have some truth here.

I guess I wanted a do it all round if I were to go take elk but I’m sure the ELDX at elk distances is fine.

It’s certainly fine for SE white tails. I mean look at this exit wound. Why am I switching? But then you read stories like the above and see those same small SE white tail deer that didn’t even have an exit wound and wonder what the heck is the best way to go.

i just don’t want to lose a trophy because my bullet grenaded at only 4”.

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I think that bullet is excellent for whitetail, in fact, it's way more than you need. I've killed gobs of whitetail with both the 143 eld-x and 147 eld-m at 6.5creed and 6.5prc speeds, and they kill really well. I will grudgingly give a slight edge to the eld-m for fast death, even after I spent years rebelling against the idea of using match bullets to hunt, I put them to the test and they worked great. On a separate note, I've never killed an elk, but I just don't think I'd ever carry a 6.5 of any variety to kill one. I feel like an animal that big and with the real chance for long shots and high winds, I'd just want to drag out a 200gr tough bullet from a .30 magnum. I know people kill them every year with .17hmr and .22lr, and they will be here any minute to attack me, but as a guy from TN who won't get many opportunities at an elk in my life, and those chances are time consuming and expensive, I'm packing a cartridge that will work at all angles, in all winds, and give me the best chance to fold one on impact.
 
#27
They don’t think anecdotes be like it is. But it do.

You can only do post-mortem analysis on those animals you recover- meaning the bullet was successful. Those that got away? We invent all sorts of reasons why. Twig deflected the bullet. Bullet “failure.” Etc. In actuality- no one knows.
 
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#28
My buddy shot a large doe at 100 meters with a Sierra gameking from his 6.5. It went through one rib and then fucking disappeared. I saw the deer when it was hanging. Hole in one rib and then a pristine, untouched chest cavity everywhere else.

Bullets do weird stuff.

I saw an AK bullet go in the bottom of a spray paint can at an angle, trace a helix around the can and exit through the top after a full revolution.

A good friend was shot just below the ear with a 5.45 round and it went under his skin and popped out the back of his neck. He was fine. Couple stitches was all.

Just put the bullet where you want it to go and pretty much anything will work.
 
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#30
I think the real issue is in the name, ELD. From Hornady's site.

"With high velocity 0-400 yard impact, the bullet continually expands throughout its penetration path. The thick shank of the jacket and high InterLock® ring keep the core and jacket together providing 50-60% weight retention."

"Upon low-velocity 400+ yard impacts, the Heat Shield® tip drives backward into the bullet to initiate expansion. Exhibiting conventional expansion with a large mushroom and 85-90% retained weight the bullet provides deep penetration and large wound cavities."

I would think that the more conventional bullets like the Accubond or Interlock might be a better choice at shorter range.
 
#32
Doom said:
I think the real issue is in the name, ELD. From Hornady's site.

"With high velocity 0-400 yard impact, the bullet continually expands throughout its penetration path. The thick shank of the jacket and high InterLock® ring keep the core and jacket together providing 50-60% weight retention."

"Upon low-velocity 400+ yard impacts, the Heat Shield® tip drives backward into the bullet to initiate expansion. Exhibiting conventional expansion with a large mushroom and 85-90% retained weight the bullet provides deep penetration and large wound cavities."

I would think that the more conventional bullets like the Accubond or Interlock might be a better choice at shorter range.
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The problem with that math is that if you shoot the same bullet in a.... 6.5creed, and a 6.5x300 wby, one man's m.v. is another man's 400y impact velocity, and it varies by barrel length, individual load, elevation, temp, etc., and there are another 25 commercially produced 6.5mm cartridges in the mix too. It's impossible to make statements like that. I still go back to what we are all guilty of, and that is our desire to solve problems that don't exist. 2 shots, 2 dead deer. There is no problem. I've seen deer with disintegrated hearts run 200y straight uphill and fall over. If you put a bullet through that 1/3 of the body that contains the lungs, they aren't going far, no matter what bullet you shoot. We all have these crazy expectations for bullets, but nothing moving thousands of fps is absolutely predictable.
 
#33
For deer, grab some 120grn Nosler Ballistic Tips or 100/125 Partitions. They'll work fine from muzzle(3000 fps) out to 400-500 yds. They'll hold together close up and poke a hole going in and coming out without pancaking on impact. For larger than deer, or tougher game the 140 BT/PT work well as do the lowly Hornady Spire Points in the 129-140grn weights.


I find the 140's a bit too much for deer and get quicker kills with the lighter weight projectiles in both my 6.5 Creedmoors and 6.5 Swedes.

TM6
 
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#34
I got a bit of a dilemma with my recommendation. Longest shot I ever made on game was with a Nosler partition. Blood trail a blind man could follow. But despite all, they just won’t group well in my main hunting rifle, the Weatherby Vanguard in .25-06. (The rifle which actually made the shot mentioned, go figure.). Rifle shoots great with the Berger 115 VLD Hunting and killed three deer with it so far. (out of six I have killed total for this and the previous two years.). One shot with the VLD was a bit too far back and it took a Timberman’s drone to find her. The next two bucks, one ran about 15 yards with a blood trail and the one this year dropped on the shot. (He got back up on his front legs and I immediately put him down with a neck shot, but on skinning and quartering, we found the second shot was really not necessary, the boiler room was a total mess). Both bucks had nice exit wounds.

So, if not happy with bullet performance on game, go with the Partition if it will group. If not try the Berger Hunting VLD. Seem to work just fine.
 
#35
Eurodriver said:
I have shot two bucks this season with 143gr ELDX out of a 6.5CM. 42.1gr RL16 in Lapua brass.

The freak 6pt was shot in the lungs at 175y and the 9pt was shot somewhat quartering to me in the neck/shoulder joint at 90y. Both rounds exploded upon impact. The 9pt didn’t even have an exit wound or a single drop of blood. If he ran I doubt I would’ve been able to find him. The 6pt left a rather impressive exit wound but there is jacket everywhere.

Looking at the Terminal Ascent bullets but it appears they don’t have components for those yet in 6.5mm - unless there are better recommendations here?

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Nice bucks !!!
With that load, depending on barrel length, you should be pretty close to 2800 FPS for a muzzle velocity.
I've had good luck with 140g Nosler Ballistic Tips if you are set on a change.
I've only recovered one bullet from a Red Deer at about 225 yards, ( Cup and core separated, but it was a nasty wound channel ) everything else has been a two-hole wound. Whitetail are DRT as was the bobcat I shot at 175 yards.
Antelope will run 20 to 50 yards and plow the ground for a good 5 yards when they run out of adrenaline, or they fall over with the grass they were eating still between their teeth...
Premium hunting bullets are unobtanium right now, Nosler is Out of Stock on most bullets. Hornady seems to be able to keep the pipeline full for the most part.
 
#36
For the ELDM and ELDX, I use the higher end of the spectrum weight for the given caliber in 7mm and 30cal.

Between hogs, blacktail, muley and coyote; I have not lost an animal...yet. But that's to say each only took one shot!

I've had some bad shots (misread wind/angle etc) but in my own mind the bigger pill just provides a little more margin for error.

That said, nice job on the two deer!
 
#37
No issues with ELDX in factory loading - 280AI with 162 ELDX at 2850fps. Last three years has harvested multiple mule deer and antelope between myself and hunting buddies who borrow. Kimber Montana rifle. 75 yards to 350 yards. Terminal performance seems to be initial fragmentation followed by deep penetration of the base. I harvested a large mule deer in WY a few years ago with a Texas heart shot that started at the rear and the projectile base ended at the hide in front. Pic is the ELDX base from NM antelope this year - chest shot 194 yards - initial fragmentation destroyed heart/lungs and ELDX base broke spine and was under hide near tail.
 

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#38
Hecouldgoalltheway said:
Look at these two dead bucks, one died where he stood and the other ran for 3 seconds after the shot..

Must change bullets, cannot have these results again.

And I thought I was picky.
Click to expand...

I could post kill pics of animals we’ve taken with eldx bullets (no 6.5s, just 7mms, 7mm-08 and 7mm Rem Mag) but you’d die of boredom before you got to the end.

Deer, elk, antelope.

If you stop buying 6.5 eldx, make sure it’s the 143 grainers, I’m just starting to load them for my brother’s 6.5 PRC.




P
 
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#39
We use ELDX as our main bullet for crop damage on deer. The 30 cals (178/200) have been very impressive. The 6.5 and 260 running 143 have had mixed results. Generally resulting in pin hole in pin hole out or most of the time pin hole in and no exit with zero blood trail. Then of course the perfect entrance/exit blood trail on shots as well

The recovery rate on the 143 ELDX is far less than the 30 cals. Simply due to lack of blood to track and the fact more seem to run when shot with the 6.5’s vs the 30 cals

Been using them since they discontinued the 178 Amax in favor of the ELDX. 30 cals in 308 and 300 have been excellent
 
#40
Speer makes 140gr Gold Dots in 264 caliber. They probably won't be quite as accurate as the ELD-X's, but they aren't bad (I run around 1 MOA or slightly under with them).

The gel testing basically says that they are the shit once they hit something. Mushroom + weight retention. I did a shoulder shot on a deer at 220yds last year with one and it passed through. Good wounds. Killed tf out of it.
 
#41
I will say it. A common theme seems to be that ELDX works fine in 7mm/30 but not so great in 6.5/260. At some point I wonder if the issue is the ELDX projectile or the cartridge delivering it into the target critter. Will be interesting to see if the 143ELDX performs better out of 6.5 PRC, etc.
 
#42
Eurodriver said:
And that’s the irony. The bullets did work - they are dead and one even died where he stood. So I feel kind of ridiculous making this thread but I also know they didn’t behave internally as a bullet should and I worry about boogering up a future kill if I stuck with this.
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Sounds like they did perform as designed. There is a optimal range or more accurately, a optical muzzle velocity that ALL expanding bullets are rated too.

The 143gr 6.5 eld-x, has minimum manufacture rated expansion velocity of 1600 fps, though many of us agree that 1750 fps is more accurate.

The maxium is at muzzle BUT it is well know that tipped projectiles generally tend to explode into the target at high velocity. This is where a bonded bullet would excel. If your smoking deer at rock throwing distance (to me that’s 100y), none of these long range bullets are the answer. The closest being the nosler ABLR. The problem with bonded bullets is that I’ve yet to see one with a good and consistent BC for actual long range.

And then there are monos like hammer bullets with their pros and cons.
 
#43
Austan said:
This is the cartridge my son uses. I don't how it performs on deer yet but I used his rifle to shoot a porcupine from 30 feet below it. I expected the bullet to go right through it and for it to fall to the ground, instead it exploded into 3 pieces. So I suspect not an ideal bullet for meat animals at short ranges. If your bullet placement is good, I can't imagine a scenario where you would lose the animal or even have to track it any meaningful distance so there's that.
Click to expand...
As a follow up to this, my son shot his first deer this past week. 40 yard shot broadside walking, made a great shot hitting it behind the shoulder. The exit hole was not much bigger in size than the entrance and the lungs were obliterated. It reminded me very much of the dozens of deer I shot with the nosler ballistic tips back in the day before switching to partitions. Great bullet for the boiler room but hell on meat if the shot isn't perfect. Personally, I'll be switching him to something else after he burns through these.
 
#44
I have used the 143 eld-x and the 130 Hybrids out of a 260 rem. both of them left massive holes in the neck and DRT. using the 143 eld-x, i hit a pig at 300 yards in the high shoulder, DRT. while there was some meat loss, i didnt have to track it. All 3 were pass throughs.

I see success in your story, but it is sounding like you are wanting a solid bullet like a GMX or a Barnes. either way, the goal is to kill the animal and you succeeded.

I now hunt with a 6.5 Grendel using 123SST and those left a baseball sized exit hole in the shoulder. ran about 20 yards with a massive blood trail.
 
#45
I have had my same concerns with the 143 ELDX in my 6.5 Creed. I have now taken 3 deer & 4 Coyotes & all have been recovered. All shots were 200y & in. 1 3.5 year old buck at 90-100 he sucked it up like a champ and mede it 10-12 yards max. Quartering to shot just infront of one shoulder w/ no exit or blood. I watched him fall in the field. Both Does were broadside heart shots and never took a step. I dressed all deer and fount parts of the jacket everywhere with the chest cavity liquidated. 4 Yotes never took a step. Yotes had small entry and massive exit holes.

All that being said I know what I'm capable of with my equipment and shot placement that I still have 6 or 7 boxes of factory ammo I'll still continue to shoot. The wife will continue to shoot a 308 with 180g Game Kings!!!! She is getting better about shot placement.

2022 deer season I went to the 6 Creed and 103 ELDX. That was a totally different ball game. Doe at 125y broadside heart shot. She ran 75y and I could see the blood trail in the field. She painted the field red. 45 min later Coyote enters the field at almost 200. shoulder shot & never moved. I have almost 500 factory rounds and just ordered a shorter lighter barrel so I dont have to pack the 26" Comp rifle w/ a 9" suppressor attached to it!!!
 
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#47
My experience with ELDXs have been on 4 deer. Whitetail does at 340 and 250 with 6.5 creed 143 ELDX, a button Buck at 100ish with a 300 win mag and 200 ELDX and a Muley Buck at 660 with the same round. The doe at 340 dropped in her tracks to a high shoulder shot and complete pass through, doe at 250 lung shot complete pass through ran 50 yards, button buck entered in lungs and exited through shoulder leaving fist sized hole ran 15 yards downhill, and muley back of lungs maybe liver complete pass through with poor/no blood trail. Found it dead against a log 80 yards downhill from shot. I try to follow my own personal rule of limiting cup and core bullets to to 3000FPS or less. No cup and core bullet should be expected to completely stay together past that and probably even at that muzzle velocity. If you want a tough bullet, buy copper monolithics. ELDXs may explode close distance, but they’ll definitely kill. Just like ELDMs. ELDXs expand at lower velocities than monolithics, so they can have longer effective ranges. ELDMs expand at lower speeds than ELDX, but are more likely to explosively expand and not give adequate penetration at close range on bigger game. No bullet will be perfect for everything and if you understand their limitations, you can apply them to get the desired outcome.
 
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