not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

[Mc85]

with a sledge hammer but.........,

Ok so I am subscribed to the online training. I fully understand body position causes hop.
I am shooting prone on uneven ground. I have a fixed harris and thus a small degree of right cant ( i want to upgrade soon) I am getting some really nasty leftward hop. I try to acquire npa using the techniques taught in training. I confirm by closing my eyes , breathing a bit,then reopen my eyes to see if I am still on target.I then dry fired to make sure I stayed put on target. All checks good.I then go hot and I jump several mils to the left during recoil.
My question, can I still work out hop even with a canted rifle, uneven ground so im rolled slightly right and my bipod also being on a slight downhill??? and yes I am loading it btw.

Im trying to learn and this is getting annoying...
am I set up for failure or do I just need to work harder?
Also since self npa checks are coming back ok, even though obviously my npa isnt right..., what else can I do to try and determine if im there our not??

 

[treebasher]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

You are not straight behind the rifle. Have someone take a picture of you before and after a shot.

You are left of the target because the rifle is at an angle to you, the recoil is pushing you to the right and the rifle to the left.

Get it straightened out and the "hop" will go away.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

A bipod forcing you to cant is almost worthless.

If you can't bury a leg to get level, then fold the bipod and shoot off of a pack.

Get straight behind the rifle. If you get hop, modify your position and repeat until you don't get hop. It really is that simple. Remember the forward pressure.

Don't cant your rifle unless you know what the results will be. We were experimenting with ultra-low shooting positions. In one I canted the rifle 45*. My shot was way low and left. Even a little cant can have a big result, and it's magnified with range.

 

[Mc85]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

I plan on getting a new bipod soon.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

What part of Indiana do you reside? If it's Southern Indiana, you can cross the river and see me at Shooter's Supply, not just for a bipod; but, I can show you how to sling-up too, as artificial/bone support is not precluded just to bipods.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

Mc, if you are anywhere near Newburgh, IN I would be happy to let you use on of my Harris Bipods to see if that's what you need.

While Charles would probably be the better choice for HP style coaching, I am sure I could help you out with a thing or two.

 

[Mc85]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

LoneWolfUSMC ,Sterling Shooter.

Thank you both for the offer. I would love to take u up on it, but I am all the way up northern in Indiana. Bout the farthest I travel south is Bass and Bucks to shoot. Its the closest place I have to reach out past my own 100yds range, though youngs is about the same distance I may join there later on, but anyways.
Thank you both again. I love the amount of help and support a lot of people on this forum are willing to give

So anyways though, I had my father come out tonight and critique my position. He took pics which I am going to review shortly. I still did hop to the left 2 mils almost perfectly for the first 4 rnds. On the fifth I only jumped one mil left. I know the view on shooting 4 groups here.. lol but I did have the first 4 into .339 moa. Then on the last shot refrigerator syndrome set in and I rushed on the trigger slighty before my breath was all the way out.. sadly I hit low and opened up to .9....

I can see though very clearly the effect of proper breath control.

So to re-ask/ clarify my question... on the ground that is unlevel both under my body, and under my bipod i am forced to have some cant, aswell as a slight conforming of my body to the ground to avoid twitch from holding tension on my legs...
under these condition, even though not idealand needing to find some remedy , can I expect with my rifle canted to not have bipod hop off to the side if my body is perfectly lined up, or because of the less than ideal ground/bipod is it going to hop to some degree even if I do my part right?
If it is still all on me I am perfectly willing to accept that, and I dont mind hearing that. I just want to know if I should be expecting this to keep happening or if I am still missing something.

Thanks again

 

[sled_mack]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

I'm still fighting this issue myself. But, if I can fully relax my right shoulder (shooting right handed) it helps a lot. It seems that I have to fight the urge to load the bipod by pushing with my shoulder, tense up my shoulder for the shot, or use my shoulder when pulling the rifle to my body with my right hand.

Hope that helps.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

I would not get bent about the axle moving off the target 2 Mils, especially on uneven ground. Its in your FOV and you're pretty good if your only moving inside that.

 

[Target In Sight]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still fighting this issue myself. But, if I can fully relax my right shoulder (shooting right handed) it helps a lot. It seems that I have to fight the urge to load the bipod by pushing with my shoulder, tense up my shoulder for the shot, or use my shoulder when pulling the rifle to my body with my right hand.

Hope that helps. </div></div>

sled,

This is the same findings I got, well, actually my fiance noticed for me. I tend to naturally put strength on my right shoulder (right hand shooter too) when I lean my head close to the stock so my eye is aligned with the scope. Everytime the head goes, the shoulder goes. With practice, I overcomed this habit, and the bipod hasn't hopped since. Amazing how little thing that you hardly noticed can make such influence on shooting. And I really give credit to my fiance on this one. I wouldn't be able to see my own shoulder while looking through the scope.

 

[Mc85]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

thanks again to everyone for the replies and tips. I am finding I am fighting the same shoulder urge as well. Since I started using the techniques taught on here tonight has been one of the best nights hop wise and a big focus for me was my shoulder. Using whatever my old technique was I had about 1-3 mil jump depending on the day, though accuracy tonight was some of the best I have had yet.
The online training is for sure some of the best money I have spent, and now im gonna try to find a way(ha ha money) to tx for a spring/summer class.
So for now Ill dry fire with somebody watching my form to make sure im training my body right, and accept I will get some movement when im on the range at my house. Provided I can get my car fixed by the weekend maybe I'll waste some money at the local range so I can get on some flat cement and see what happens in more ideal situations.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

Mc,

Right now, the bipod is distracting you from good shooting.

Take a step back and look at the big picture. Remember, there are three elements to a steady position: bone/artificial support, NPA, and muscular relaxation. At present, you're using muscular tension to get control of the rifle, and that's thwarting success, since muscle precludes consistency. The idea behind any artificial support is muscular relaxation.

Placing all of your bullets exactly where aimed might not be the goal; however, building your position to molecular perfection, when possible, will always get you the best results.

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

Being on the subject of relaxation, what is the rule of thumb on gripping the stock and force used to pull the rifle into the shoulder? I keep hearing conflicting information on this.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

Only enough force to control the rifle.

 

[Mc85]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

Thanks again for everyones responses and input.., both to me and others in this thread.

 

[Domestique]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

I'm wondering if someone can give me some advice...

I'm getting some pretty nasty bipod hop on my .308 SPS Tactical. It's always to the left and hops about an inch to half an inch (rifle movement, not POA). This seemingly happens no matter how I adjust my position behind the rifle. The bipod is a Harris. I do have a deformed collarbone (broke and never healed correctly) that forces me to sholder the rifle a little further towards my arm than I would like. I have a pod-loc on the Harris, and after abuot 4 shots, the recoil cants the bipod pretty far to the left to where I'm forced to readjust it, and mind you, I'm clamping down the pod-loc pretty tight. I'm thinking the only thing I can do from here is to put a brake on it? I'm really fresh out of ideas and I'm tired of wasting ammo trying to overcome this problem.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

Why does the broken collar bone dictate where you place the rifle? Is it painful or does it just not "feel right".

 

[Domestique]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

I have a pronounced protrusion in my collarbone for the first 2/3 of it (the bone sticks out further). Therefore, the "pocket" that I have to work with is further out towards my shoulder. I don't really think this has anything to do with it though. This is my first .308 and the recoil of the 20" barrel seems pretty sharp to me. Is it normal for the recoil to overcome the Pod-Lock and move the cant of the bipod?

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

Not if you are straight behind the rifle. I don't use a pod lock. I just keep the tension cranked as tight as I can get it with my fingers. If I am not straight behind the rifle it will try to twist the rifle on the bipod.

If you are shooting in the prone, there really isn't a "pocket" that the stock fits into. At least not like what you have shooting offhand. If it doesn't cause you any pain. Try moving the stock closer to the centerline of your body. This will keep the recoil moving straight back and it will keep your head in a more natural position.

If possibly have someone take some pictures of your position and post them up here.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: not to beat a dead horse (bipod hop question)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EdZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a pronounced protrusion in my collarbone for the first 2/3 of it (the bone sticks out further). Therefore, the "pocket" that I have to work with is further out towards my shoulder. I don't really think this has anything to do with it though. This is my first .308 and the recoil of the 20" barrel seems pretty sharp to me. Is it normal for the recoil to overcome the Pod-Lock and move the cant of the bipod?</div></div>

Here's another idea: Try out a Versa-Pod. The Versa-Pod has a hand-stop feature which will allow a low prone position not unlike a high-power shooter's postion with sling. With the non-firing hand in control of the fore-end, you will use it to absorb some recoil as well as bipod "jump".