NRL22X Rifle

[Beachrider99]

If you were to build a 22 for ranges 50-500yards what setups would you use? Budget rifle/glass $3500 total. Im currently shooting a RPRR and Viper PST Gen 2. I cant figure out how to get past 435ish with that setup and the ebr7c reticle. Maybe I am doing something wrong as I am new to the precision rifle game. I come from USPSA background, not rifle. Let the heckling begin and help me out here.

 

[littlepod]

40 moa rail, good scope with adjustments, and maybe a little holdover on the reticle will get you out to 500.

3500 is a lot of money.

Get a used Vudoo for $1500
Get a used XLR chassis w/ some weights for $800.
Then you got about $1200 for a scope, get like a Cronus that's clearing out right now for $1150.

 

[Beachrider99]

40 moa rail, good scope with adjustments, and maybe a little holdover on the reticle will get you out to 500.

3500 is a lot of money.

Get a used Vudoo for $1500
Get a used XLR chassis w/ some weights for $800.
Then you got about $1200 for a scope, get like a Cronus that's clearing out right now for $1150.

I would be ok with using the viper again?

 

[littlepod]

I would be ok with using the viper again?

Not sure if the Viper has enough travel for a 40moa rail. It might be super close / bottoming out to achieve a 50 yd zero.

 

[Gleedus]

I expect that you are planning on shooting nrl22x matches. My experience would be that a better optic will "buy" you more points then a better rifle. With a 22lr the more you can see your bullet fly the more chance of correcting a bad wind call. So if your splitting the budget looking for a final setup dont short your optic.
Now if you know your going to spend more down the road then do like littepod suggested or go new and use the viper for a bit till the budget allows for a better optic.
If this is a final budget i would look at a tikka t1x or a CZ 457 and what i would call razor level optic. You dont have to go ZCO level.

 

[SubMech]

$3500 total is beyond what the average person would consider "budget" just like @littlepod said. A CZ457 and SWFA 3-15 was my "budget" setup and got me to just over 400 yards dialing. Just remember, with rimfire the ammo you are using is a MAJOR factor, don't expect to get what you want with a great rifle/scope and generic garbage ammo. Lots of testing is in order.

 

[Beachrider99]

$3500 total is beyond what the average person would consider "budget" just like @littlepod said. A CZ457 and SWFA 3-15 was my "budget" setup and got me to just over 400 yards dialing. Just remember, with rimfire the ammo you are using is a MAJOR factor, don't expect to get what you want with a great rifle/scope and generic garbage ammo. Lots of testing is in order.

what moa base were you using? yes I have tested tons in my current rifle.

 

[SubMech]

what moa base were you using? yes I have tested tons in my current rifle.

30 moa base.

 

[Beachrider99]

I expect that you are planning on shooting nrl22x matches. My experience would be that a better optic will "buy" you more points then a better rifle. With a 22lr the more you can see your bullet fly the more chance of correcting a bad wind call. So if your splitting the budget looking for a final setup dont short your optic.
Now if you know your going to spend more down the road then do like littepod suggested or go new and use the viper for a bit till the budget allows for a better optic.
If this is a final budget i would look at a tikka t1x or a CZ 457 and what i would call razor level optic. You dont have to go ZCO level.

you wouldnt consider the pst gen 2 as quality? What moa base? yes, my plan is nrl22x but also nrl22 so i need to zero at 50

 

[Beachrider99]

30 moa base.

how are you getting to 400 dialing???

 

[SubMech]

how are you getting to 400 dialing???

400 yards with my setup was 19.1 mil, I think I had about .2 mil left before I had to hold over

 

[Beachrider99]

400 yards with my setup was 19.1 mil, I think I had about .2 mil left before I had to hold over

interesting, I would love to know more about your setup. The 19mil is nothing close to what I need to get to 400, im at 28mil for 400

 

[littlepod]

interesting, I would love to know more about your setup. The 19mil is nothing close to what I need to get to 400, im at 28mil for 400

Not sure what rifle you're shooting, if it's a 10/22 then I could see that as the velocity plummets on a 10/22 with gases escaping.

If you ran a CZ 457 MTR with a match chamber, you should get close to around 1060 fps for ammo. If you run a Vudoo, you'll in the 1090s running center-X. That puts me out to 400 at like 21ish mils.

 

[IamJoHo]

I have a 40moa base on my Vudoo and can 25 yard zero with room to spare. I could run a 50moa if one was made but not a 60. Also even thought the advertised elevation total adjustment is I believe 20mils I actually get like 27.6mils.

 

[Beachrider99]

im shooting a rprr and wolf match extra avg chrono speed 1064 for the 25 rounds i ran on the chrono. strange that ours are so different. What is your zero?

 

[SubMech]

interesting, I would love to know more about your setup. The 19mil is nothing close to what I need to get to 400, im at 28mil for 400

CZ457 pro varmint, SK standard plus. SWFA 3-15, area 419 30 moa base, stock barrel.

 

[Beachrider99]

CZ457 pro varmint, SK standard plus. SWFA 3-15, area 419 30 moa base, stock barrel. View attachment 7499422

well now im really confused at what the heck I have going on...

 

[Beachrider99]

I have a 40moa base on my Vudoo and can 25 yard zero with room to spare. I could run a 50moa if one was made but not a 60. Also even thought the advertised elevation total adjustment is I believe 20mils I actually get like 27.6mils.

What glass are you running?

 

[IamJoHo]

What glass are you running?

My bad I thought I put that in there. I am using a PST Gen2 5-25 also.

 

[Kg33]

interesting, I would love to know more about your setup. The 19mil is nothing close to what I need to get to 400, im at 28mil for 400

I have a cz457 with bscar 25moa rail and swfa 3-15. From 50 yard zero i can dial nearly 24 mil.
I believe the scope has 40 mil of travel. I was able to dial 34 mil up with some burris rings but have since gone to vortex pmr.

 

[SubMech]

well now im really confused at what the heck I have going on...

I am in no way the guru here, but everything I have seen since I started shooting rimfire has showed me that nothing makes sense. I have seen people with the exact same setup as me have drastically different dope. My original reply to this thread is my intent...TEST TEST TEST. Get the rifle you want, a good barrel, and test as many different ammo/lots as you can. I am a USPSA guy as well, so I know your pain.

 

[Beachrider99]

by the sounds of it my data is off somehow...I appreciate all of yalls input and keep it coming

 

[Gleedus]

you wouldnt consider the pst gen 2 as quality? What moa base? yes, my plan is nrl22x but also nrl22 so i need to zero at 50

All things being normal you should be able to get 400 on a 40 moa base.
Pst gen 2 glass is ok. My experience is that the older ones are better then the current ones. But you will see a lot more with a Razor level optic. If your spending 3500 Id be looking at better then the pst unless your planning to make due for now.
I say this coming from taking winning very serious. I play to win. Top 10 average is the goal. So if your shooting for fun and to do well a pst is definitely good enough. I dont want to waste your money just saying where I put mine.

 

[SubMech]

by the sounds of it my data is off somehow...I appreciate all of yalls input and keep it coming

You originally said you can't get past 435 with your setup, are you making consistent hits at 435 with what you are running now ?

 

[Gleedus]

interesting, I would love to know more about your setup. The 19mil is nothing close to what I need to get to 400, im at 28mil for 400

Weather conditions can make a 19-28 mil difference depending were you are comparing to.

 

[jbell]

Personally I would pick up a V-22 20” barreled action of your choice in contour (but for extreme distance the extra weight of the MTU may be a little better than the Kukri), 30 or 40 MOA base depending on what scope you settle on, pick up a used Timney trigger of your preference in single or two stage, install all of that in a KRG Bravo (best bang for the buck in stocks and chassis) add the weighted butt spacers and the minimalist spigot for a bipod that will mount as close to bore centerline as you can, pick up an Atlas CAL = you will be at or under $2500 if you shop around. Then shop the used market for something like a MK5, Razor Gen II, or preferably if you can squeeze your budget an ATACR F1. I think you should be able to get very close to your budget if you shop around. But my point is you can easily save $500 or more on a chassis and trigger and still have just as good of a rifle in the beginning with more money to spend on a scope which will net you an actual improvement.

 

[Beachrider99]

You originally said you can't get past 435 with your setup, are you making consistent hits at 435 with what you are running now ?

all on calculation right now. have only done lots of ammo testing, chrono, and group to 100. Thats as far as our local range goes.

 

[Beachrider99]

Weather conditions can make a 19-28 mil difference depending were you are comparing to.

our range is literally 1 foot about sea level.

 

[Beachrider99]

Personally I would pick up a V-22 20” barreled action of your choice in contour (but for extreme distance the extra weight of the MTU may be a little better than the Kukri), 30 or 40 MOA base depending on what scope you settle on, pick up a used Timney trigger of your preference in single or two stage, install all of that in a KRG Bravo (best bang for the buck in stocks and chassis) add the weighted butt spacers and the minimalist spigot for a bipod that will mount as close to bore centerline as you can, pick up an Atlas CAL = you will be at or under $2500 if you shop around. Then shop the used market for something like a MK5, Razor Gen II, or preferably if you can squeeze your budget an ATACR F1. I think you should be able to get very close to your budget if you shop around. But my point is you can easily save $500 or more on a chassis and trigger and still have just as good of a rifle in the beginning with more money to spend on a scope which will net you an actual improvement.

Thank you for that! I would love to find an ATACR F1 but i do believe that will blow my budget, sadly. This is along the lines of what I was thinking. I would love to squeeze in a MPA chassis. How do you know which scope base to choose based on scope?

 

[b6graham]

our range is literally 1 foot about sea level.

i'm basically sea level too and im at 21.6 in 45 degree weather. 25 yard zero. 1079 midas+

 

[jbell]

Thank you for that! I would love to find an ATACR F1 but i do believe that will blow my budget, sadly. This is along the lines of what I was thinking. I would love to squeeze in a MPA chassis. How do you know which scope base to choose based on scope?

Based on the elevation adjustment the scope you pick has. The MK5 is a great choice for an ELR scope, however it may not correct parallax under 50 yards. I never tested the 3 I had up close, but at distance they were great!

 

[Gleedus]

Thank you for that! I would love to find an ATACR F1 but i do believe that will blow my budget, sadly. This is along the lines of what I was thinking. I would love to squeeze in a MPA chassis. How do you know which scope base to choose based on scope?

Short answer Pst gen 2 max 58 moa
Long answer if using MRAD (total scope elevation /2)+4= total MIL of base you can use.

This is on average if you have something funny with your rifle this might not work.

 

[FireMedic92]

I used this scope on an Anschutz running SK match at 1107.
seems to do pretty well.
Bushnell forge. 3-18.

 

[1911Shootist]

You really only need 2 things to shoot ELR:
1. Accurate gun, ideally <1 MOA 90% of the time
2. Scope with lots of elevation adjustment, ideally 100+ MOA

Once you've got #1, put #2 on it and figure out how far you can max out your base before you run out of down travel. On some setups it's 40 moa, on others it is more.

The PST G2 is a great scope, but the 70 moa elevation hurts it in this game. Even the Razor's only have 71 moa. The Strike Eagle has 110 moa of adjustment, so if you get one that tracks nicely, you're just taking a hit on glass quality (SE is close to PST G2 in my eyes) and panache.

 

[b6graham]

You really only need 2 things to shoot ELR:
1. Accurate gun, ideally <1 MOA 90% of the time
2. Scope with lots of elevation adjustment, ideally 100+ MOA

Once you've got #1, put #2 on it and figure out how far you can max out your base before you run out of down travel. On some setups it's 40 moa, on others it is more.

The PST G2 is a great scope, but the 70 moa elevation hurts it in this game. Even the Razor's only have 71 moa. The Strike Eagle has 110 moa of adjustment, so if you get one that tracks nicely, you're just taking a hit on glass quality (SE is close to PST G2 in my eyes) and panache.

i can run 40moa and 6mil with both a razor gen 2 and strike eagle

the issue is...there's only 10mil in the reticle which doesnt work for shooting to 600+

 

[Rob01]

You really only need 2 things to shoot ELR:
1. Accurate gun, ideally <1 MOA 90% of the time
2. Scope with lots of elevation adjustment, ideally 100+ MOA

Once you've got #1, put #2 on it and figure out how far you can max out your base before you run out of down travel. On some setups it's 40 moa, on others it is more.

The PST G2 is a great scope, but the 70 moa elevation hurts it in this game. Even the Razor's only have 71 moa. The Strike Eagle has 110 moa of adjustment, so if you get one that tracks nicely, you're just taking a hit on glass quality (SE is close to PST G2 in my eyes) and panache.

The Razor II has more than 71 MOA. On a 40 MOA base I get around 26 mils of elevation which is about 89 MOA. The MOA version is limited to three rotations so 75 MOA total but go mils and you get more.

And before you typoe it I know what the website says. It's changed over the years but the scopes haven't.

 

[1911Shootist]

i can run 40moa and 6mil with both a razor gen 2 and strike eagle

the issue is...there's only 10mil in the reticle which doesnt work for shooting to 600+

600+ is a different world... literally. The world record is 542 I think.

The Razor II has more than 71 MOA. On a 40 MOA base I get around 26 mils of elevation which is about 89 MOA. The MOA version is limited to three rotations so 75 MOA total but go mils and you get more.

And before you typoe it I know what the website says. It's changed over the years but the scopes haven't.

Thanks, I did not know that!

 

[b6graham]

600+ is a different world... literally. The world record is 542 I think.


Thanks, I did not know that!

world record? meaning 3 cold bore shots?

cause guys hit steel a lot further than 600 with 22s

 

[Beachrider99]

The Razor II has more than 71 MOA. On a 40 MOA base I get around 26 mils of elevation which is about 89 MOA. The MOA version is limited to three rotations so 75 MOA total but go mils and you get more.

And before you typoe it I know what the website says. It's changed over the years but the scopes haven't.

I agree I have the MOA pst 2 and getting 3 full revs at 75 moa. I was wondering about that when it said scope only had 70.

 

[Beachrider99]

Lets add to this what is everyones favorite reticle?

 

[Gleedus]

Lets add to this what is everyones favorite reticle?

More important is what do you like. Personally I have no love for the vortex ebr-7 rets I like the older ebr-2 better. But that is me I know guys who think the ebr-7 is yada yada yada so good. lol.
For competition currently I like the Minox ZP5 best with the Minox LR as close second. For hunting my list is different of course.
For NRL22 type competitions I feel that many reticles are to thin. For centerfire its great because distance is greater. My current 22lr favorite is IOR as it has a "very" thick reticle. This also is why the Minox LR is nice. The center is nice and thick so for close targets you can dial down the magnification and have a good aiming point and easy see 0.2, 0.4 mil wind holds. But then the rest of the ret is very thin so you wouldnt see the other hash marks as easy. ZP5 is a slightly thicker ret and is a more uniform design and is great for CF and ok for RF.
You asked for opinions right lol! Go look at as many as you can and make your own opinion.

 

[Rob01]

Lets add to this what is everyones favorite reticle?

That's going to be personal preference but I like the 7C and still have some 2C which work also. For a .22 I like the 7C especially with the small center dot as it allows shots on small targets in .22 matches like match heads and some of the tiny KYL racks. Plenty of holds for hold overs and .2 mil wind marks for movers also.

 

[b6graham]

That's going to be personal preference but I like the 7C and still have some 2C which work also. For a .22 I like the 7C especially with the small center dot as it allows shots on small targets in .22 matches like match heads and some of the tiny KYL racks. Plenty of holds for hold overs and .2 mil wind marks for movers also.

I just wish it went more than 10mil in the reticle. Would be nice for long 22LR stages

 

[Rob01]

I just wish it went more than 10mil in the reticle. Would be nice for long 22LR stages

Yeah but 10 mils is a good amount and if powering up you would lose some anyways for holds. There is always dialing halfway and using hold overs and unders if you needed it on a "don't touch the knobs" stage of fire.

 

[b6graham]

Yeah but 10 mils is a good amount and if powering up you would lose some anyways for holds. There is always dialing halfway and using hold overs and unders if you needed it on a "don't touch the knobs" stage of fire.

Thats typically what I do when we go to 400ish and the reticle going above zero is great

Getting to 500 and 600+ doesn't work as well even running 60moa of cant

 

[Beachrider99]

That's going to be personal preference but I like the 7C and still have some 2C which work also. For a .22 I like the 7C especially with the small center dot as it allows shots on small targets in .22 matches like match heads and some of the tiny KYL racks. Plenty of holds for hold overs and .2 mil wind marks for movers also.

I agree i have a few with the 7c its been my fav so far. I havent tried the tremor3 yet but if I go NF i believe thats what i will try

 

[Rob01]

I would go Mil XT if going NF. Never been a fan on Horus reticles. They sound like a great thing but when I have used them I did not like them at all. Take a look and use one before you buy.

 

[littlepod]

More important is what do you like. Personally I have no love for the vortex ebr-7 rets I like the older ebr-2 better. But that is me I know guys who think the ebr-7 is yada yada yada so good. lol.
For competition currently I like the Minox ZP5 best with the Minox LR as close second. For hunting my list is different of course.
For NRL22 type competitions I feel that many reticles are to thin. For centerfire its great because distance is greater. My current 22lr favorite is IOR as it has a "very" thick reticle. This also is why the Minox LR is nice. The center is nice and thick so for close targets you can dial down the magnification and have a good aiming point and easy see 0.2, 0.4 mil wind holds. But then the rest of the ret is very thin so you wouldnt see the other hash marks as easy. ZP5 is a slightly thicker ret and is a more uniform design and is great for CF and ok for RF.
You asked for opinions right lol! Go look at as many as you can and make your own opinion.

+1000

This is my greatest issue... I run NRL22 usually around 12-15x and a lot of my nicer scopes the reticle is too fine to be quick on the clock. The Razor HD AMG's reticle is thick enough I can run it at 10x and be quick on holdovers.

My Leica, I need to be at 18x.
Tract I need to be at 15x.

I need to get behind a ZCO.

I never really seen a Minox, now I'm curious.

 

[Gleedus]

+1000

This is my greatest issue... I run NRL22 usually around 12-15x and a lot of my nicer scopes the reticle is too fine to be quick on the clock. The Razor HD AMG's reticle is thick enough I can run it at 10x and be quick on holdovers.

My Leica, I need to be at 18x.
Tract I need to be at 15x.

I need to get behind a ZCO.

I never really seen a Minox, now I'm curious.

When I look through a PST with ebr-7 comfortable low mag is 15x I can use ok at 13x but 15x is perfect I have no experience with the AMG
The only Razor i have here is ebr-2 12-13x is good
Minox ZP5 works at 10x but 12x is good tree dots are nicely visible at 15x
Minox LR 15x is good but center is good down to 5x dot are ok at 15x unless its a dark back drop then 18x. Nice for spotting.

All of these I feel are perfect at 15x

I too would like to see a ZCO but I'm not a fan of the bars for the tree. Yes I'm picky lol. I also would like to see a TT but there reticle is very thin on paper.

I think a manufacture should introduce a nrl22x reticle. Can work at 8x Perfect at 10x sure at 25 its going to be "to thick" but you wont miss a target because of it. The IOR is a perfect 22lr thickness and is great for hunting but the reticle layout is not the best for competitions. This ret should match the layout of their other scopes so picture a ZP5 with a 0.035 line thickness and a option for a 0.045- 0.06... or a ebr-7 if thats your poison. I haven't figured out what the best thickness would be yet. (Of course personal opinion)
The mess that would cause the manufacturer would be priceless lol. Hey this is the thick ret no its not! Are you sure let me see! Definitely the thin one. Cant be.... lol...

 

[Rob01]

I use the 7C easily at 10x for hold overs and unders. Something people should try is that if they can not see the reticle well enough to turn on their illumination. It helps to be able to see the reticle better against the targets. I know we have the "I don;t need illumination" and "I don't even put my battery in" crowd here but they don't know until they try it.

And I have shot a lot of .22 matches and just like centerfire my power rarely goes below 10x. Mostly 10-12x and higher for small stuff. Not sure what matches get shot in Canada but 8x is very rarely used.