obiden's atf next move

[mosin46]

https://www.tacticalshit.com/per-atf-what-it-means-to-be-engaged-in-the-business-of-selling-guns/?trk_msg=J5KNDDDJMFQ4PDQJTMQJJBCVRS&trk_contact=7OM5DDH9I4MGSS1Q0LDL3V73AO&trk_sid=5IB6FLJCS8KQ53VOJA1H978F20&trk_link=HKH42UPHN1DK1AGGK7MQMM2ELG

next move in the war on people who are pro 2A. this has the added benefit for them in that it hurts "deplorable" gun owners financially. here,and i am sure all over at least red states, there are many who make money reselling guns. gun shows,local and web internet selling has been a target for years. they know that they lose touch on "private" sales. that is an area long targeted. furtherance of the goal of knowing where every gun in america is. confiscation being the dream. have had only mixed success "banning" things. this removes any pro 2A move thru the courts.

 

[Ronws]

Sounds like a formality to do what they have been doing all along. 4473s and background checks. I had to have a background check to get my LTC. Now, it takes me no time to do a transfer.

As to the selling guns for profit. Profit is income over and above the cost of the item.

What if I have had a $3,000 rifle for 2 years and decide to sell it for $3,000? I have not made a profit.

Also, how are they going to decide what is a profit? Thanks to the inflation of Potato, that equivalent price might actually be $4,000. So, I sell it for 4k but I have not made a "profit." I have simply adjusted for the inflation brought to us by the Early Onset Alzheimer's Disease-in-Chief.

How are they going to decide what is profit? Is it simply selling it for more than what you paid into it?

This is also going to get involved with the IRS. You have to pay taxes.

 

[mosin46]

all true. but,they won't care about a real profit/loss thing. all they do is bust you,penalize you and you spend big $ staying out of jail. or,they just take it and tell you to sue them. and yes,another way to weaponize the irs. likely guilt or innocence has no bearing on the alphabet's moves. 1/6, bogus legal attacks on trump,ruby ridge,waco ring bells?

 

[168BTHPM]

This topic has already been hashed and rehashed here.

The reason for the change in definition who needs an FFL is to have a pseudo universal background check system and to do away with people who buy and sell guns that do not have an FFL.

The guy the ATF murdered in Arkansas was buying and selling without an FFL. Arkansas does not require background checks for private sales. That guy was ordering new guns from an FFL, doing the 4473 to get them in his name then turning around and selling them at gun shows for a profit with no paper sales. I think he got highlighted because numerous guns where he was the original buyer wound up being recovered at crime scenes.

I have already verified numerous times with the ATF that you can sell personally owned firearms without having to get an FFL. The hang up comes if you are buying guns to resell. I have seen that many times at gun shows where a "private sales vendor" will buy a gun then put it right back out for sale on their table. Those are the guys they are focusing on. Some states allow that while others do not, the ATF is trying to back door the states that allow private sales by changing their definition of "engaging in the business".

 

[mosin46]

yes,see it all the time. sell a gun to a "private" dealer at 20% below what i paid and soon see it on their table @ 20% more than i paid. the purpose of the gov,the "laws","rules",the alphabets,their enforcers is not to protect stupid buyers or potential crime victims. it is to enhance their power,control and obstruction of our liberties and free will. if you think differently,you are smoking the wrong shit. it should be obvious by now that no enforcement agency or member of same give 1 shit about crime victims.

 

[Shoreglide]

Those guns weren’t recovered at crime scenes. Guys were busted for things like marijuana possession and incidentally had firearms. They even leveraged one of those guys to become an informant and make several more purchases.

The AFT doesn’t care whether a person profits from the sale under these new guidelines. The vast majority of people this will affect would not meet the minimums to keep an FFL If they did have one. It’s just a back door move to kill private sales in particular, and ownership in general.

 

[Doc68]

Sounds like a formality to do what they have been doing all along. 4473s and background checks. I had to have a background check to get my LTC. Now, it takes me no time to do a transfer.

As to the selling guns for profit. Profit is income over and above the cost of the item.

What if I have had a $3,000 rifle for 2 years and decide to sell it for $3,000? I have not made a profit.

Also, how are they going to decide what is a profit? Thanks to the inflation of Potato, that equivalent price might actually be $4,000. So, I sell it for 4k but I have not made a "profit." I have simply adjusted for the inflation brought to us by the Early Onset Alzheimer's Disease-in-Chief.

How are they going to decide what is profit? Is it simply selling it for more than what you paid into it?

This is also going to get involved with the IRS. You have to pay taxes.

Why do you think they hired 87k agents.....it wasn't to go after the what 500 billionaires we have in the US......

Doc

 

[NoDopes]

Quick question. Did they have to fill out paperwork and get government approval to buy guns in 1791?

Didn't think so.

 

[Jsp556]

I see a lot of guys selling new guns $200-500 above what they can be bought in stores on a local buy/sale/trade forum.

A lot of people are gonna find themselves in a bind.

 

[mosin46]

correct. same as i said. common here at shows and pawn shops.

 

[Ronws]

As others advised in the other thread on this, One could always do transactions without paperwork.

So far, with shootings and such, I have not heard of anyone looking for 4473s. And none of my items are listed with any city or county agency.

 

[wvfarrier]

If you actually read the rule. It is ambiguous enough thar they can charge ANYONE for selling/trading any firearm. You do not even have to make a profit on it for it to be illegal. Even selling to your local FFL can get you arrested

 

[Shoreglide]

This^^^ seems to be their plan.

 

[Ronws]

This topic has already been hashed and rehashed here.

The reason for the change in definition who needs an FFL is to have a pseudo universal background check system and to do away with people who buy and sell guns that do not have an FFL.

The guy the ATF murdered in Arkansas was buying and selling without an FFL. Arkansas does not require background checks for private sales. That guy was ordering new guns from an FFL, doing the 4473 to get them in his name then turning around and selling them at gun shows for a profit with no paper sales. I think he got highlighted because numerous guns where he was the original buyer wound up being recovered at crime scenes.

I have already verified numerous times with the ATF that you can sell personally owned firearms without having to get an FFL. The hang up comes if you are buying guns to resell. I have seen that many times at gun shows where a "private sales vendor" will buy a gun then put it right back out for sale on their table. Those are the guys they are focusing on. Some states allow that while others do not, the ATF is trying to back door the states that allow private sales by changing their definition of "engaging in the business".

Now, to be fair, the ATF are, indeed, lying sacks of shit.

The AutoKeyCard debacle and the imprisonment of Matthew Hoover at CRS Firearms. He knew a guy named Kristofer Ervin who made these metal cards about the size of a business card. On them was a etched drawing of an auto-sear called a "lightning link." If you were to cut along the lines, you could put this in your AR and get continous fire. Then, take it out and throw it away. Both Erwin and Hoover talked with the ATF several times about whether or not it was okay to make what is a novelty. It is not a machine gun because you cannot just place the card in the gun and have it work.

Was it okay to even talk about it? Yes, you could talk about it. So, while not actually selling the product, Matt got a sponsorship for talking about it on his YouTube channel.

Then, just about overnight, they ATF decided that it was, in fact, a machine gun. And to receive a sponsorship for just talking about it constituted conspiracy to distribute machine gun parts.

Not to mention the prosecutor, with the help of the ATF, dropped Terabytes of data of discovery at trial.

So, the ATF lies. And if they will lie about that, how easy is for them lie and say, no, don't worry, private party to private party sales are covered by this? Very easy.

So, here is the 3 step process to determining when the ATF is lying:

1. Their lips are moving
2. Sound is coming out in the form of words while the lips are moving
3. It is a day that ends in the letter 'y'

Edited to add:
ATF gunsmith tried to make it work and could not.

So, to amend and be more correct, ATF are incompetent liars.

 

[wvfarrier]

Some updates from GOA

 

[Docsherm]

I have been selling guns on Forums for a long time...... I am good.. I never even break even, let alone, make a profit with you Cheap Basteds.......

 

[MadDuner]

Sell guns… like after I buy them?

Blasphemy!

I’m keeping them all!

 

[RPN]

So if you sell at a loss (inflation adjusted, of course), can you claim that on your tax return?

Does this increase the probability of your dog getting shot?

 

[Green461]

Face it, we're all slaves and you'll do what they say. If we wernt slaves all these tyrants would be in chains. People have no problem going off to a foreign land and assisting and helping other countries, Iraq, Afghanistan, Our DOD - 1.3 million active duty service members, 750,000 civilian personnel, and more than 811,000 National Guard and Reserve service members, the DoD is the nation's largest employer. Law enforcement makes up 824,824 people. When it comes to fighting for our own rights here none of them do anything. Any politician even muttering words against the 2A should be raided by SWAT and locked up and treated like a terrorist... because that is what they are. They are an enemy yet no one does anything. "WE ARE ROBOTS PROGRAMMED TO COMPLY WITH OUR MASTER.". How these governors, the ATF are all just sitting there slowly tearing the 2A apart while smiling and no one does anything is insane... Why do I pay taxes and fund the military again?? Oh yea.... for fake threats, fake enemies to make the politicians stocks go through the roof.
I'd really like to see some heads start popping. Sadly they wont stop and others think its ok to follow suite because there are no consequences. Until someones made an example nothing will ever change, we just get stepped on more and more.

 

[Ronws]

I have been selling guns on Forums for a long time...... I am good.. I never even break even, let alone, make a profit with you Cheap Basteds.......

ATF is kind of loose with the word "profit."

Profit, how? You can sell a gun for more than you paid and not earn a "profit." With inflation, the gun you sell today would nominally cost more than when you first bought. So, you would have add mark up after inflation adjustment to see a profit.

If you have sold it for what you paid for it and are still fighting inflation, you not only didn't break even, you lost value. Unless a judgement of devaluation based on age or approximate remaining barrel life.

 

[Docsherm]

ATF is kind of loose with the word "profit."

Profit, how? You can sell a gun for more than you paid and not earn a "profit." With inflation, the gun you sell today would nominally cost more than when you first bought. So, you would have add mark up after inflation adjustment to see a profit.

If you have sold it for what you paid for it and are still fighting inflation, you not only didn't break even, you lost value. Unless a judgement of devaluation based on age or approximate remaining barrel life.

I was kind of joking, but to your point even after 15 years of having it, I just sold a firearm and lost money from the original price. So even with inflation I did nit make money. So, no matter what definition they use, it is not a profit. That is my point.

That and you all are cheap bastards....