Objectively justifying Noveske's price

[Ragsdale 30 cal]

I'm interested in a Noveske Rogue Hunter rifle.

Let me start off by saying I'm not a brand loyal person. You'll find Snap-on, Wright, Wera, Knipex, and Craftsman brands in my toolbox. I've owned a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Honda, and Nissan vehicle. My clothes are from many different brands. My guns are too. I very much prefer to buy quality, but paying more just for a brand name is silly to me.

I understand Noveske is said to be "top of the line" or "tier one", but rarely do I see anyone objectively and quantitatively justify the price. Oddly enough, Noveske's own web site does not give me any information as to WHY their rifles are better than anyone else's. They just have a bunch of pretty pictures and a video of a young woman showing off "Noveske's wall of awesome" and talking about how the owner's sunglasses look like he stole them from her six year old, among other things.

Not being one to care about brand names, I'm attempting to objectively and quantitatively justify why a Noveske rifle is worth the $1,665 selling price and I could use y'alls help

Here I added up what Noveske actually machines themselves:

Noveske Stripped Upper and Lower Receiver Set $275
Noveske Barrel and Low Profile Gas Block $450
Noveske QD Sling End Plate $24
Noveske QD Sling Adapter $18

Total for Noveske parts: $767

Here I added up what Noveske assembles from third parties based on prices from Rainier Arms and Brownells:

AAC Blackout 51T Flash Suppressor $95
Troy TRX Extreme Handguard $175
VLTOR Improved Mod Stock with Receiver Extension Kit $152
Tango Down Battle Grip $34
Bravo Company Gun Fighter Charging Handle $45
Milspec Bolt Carrier Group $130
Milspec Lower Parts Kit $85
Milspec 30 Round Magazine $15

Total for third party parts: $731

Here are my thoughts:

$275 for a forged 7075 upper and lower receiver is a reasonable price and competitive. 7075 aluminum for the lower receiver is a step up in quality over the more common 6061 aluminum.

$731 goes to third party parts which are high quality and reasonably priced.

$42 goes to some QD sling accessories that are useful and reasonably priced.

$450 is quite a bit for a barrel and gas block. For this price I can buy a Bartlein, Schneider, or Obermeyer barrel. Noveske barrels appear to be highly regarded on this forum, but do they compete with a Bartlein, Schneider, or Obermeyer?

$167 is the difference between the selling price and the price I'd pay to buy all these parts myself. This amount could be thought of as the "assembly fee" for the complete rifle.

A milspec bolt carrier group purchased at Rainier Arms or Brownells will already have a properly staked gas key. Likewise, the barrel, bolt, etc. would already be inspected, shot peened, etc. at the stated prices above and should not be factored into the $167 assembly fee.

Profit, customer service, paying the staff, and other operating costs should not be factored into the assembly fee either as those costs are already factored into the individual selling price of the receivers, barrel, etc. Furthermore, Noveske pays less for the third party parts than I due to buying a higher volume.

So I've subtracted $1,048 off the selling price for what I believe is reasonable cost for quality parts.

Do y'all believe the expensive barrel and assembly fee to be worth the remaining $617?

I would be very interested in seeing a comparison between a Noveske barrel and a Bartlein barrel seeing how both are similarly priced.

 

[3O8Junkie]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

I own one Noveske myself (N6), and am trying to justify buying one in 5.56. I think I will watch this just for kicks. Mine shoots extremely well, but I do not have very much experience, nor can I compare the two barrel's.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

I don't really understand your pricing breakdown.

I was following Ar15's when the term "Tier 1" for describing builds was created. <this is a marketing term designed to get people to reach deeper into their wallet.

Noveske was nobody. Then he started claiming that pacnor polygonal barrels would give people 12.5" velocity on a 10.5" tube or 14.5" on a 12.5" tube. He became the polygonal rifled barrel guy- then soon after- the "tier 1" barrel company. Then soon after that- the "tier 1" gun company.

Many people bought the barrels (probably hundreds of people myself included), and respected industry people later tested the barrels for velocity and found the claims of additional velocity to be <span style="font-weight: bold">totally unsubstantiated. </span>

So Noveske became "tier 1" on the back of an unsubstantiated marketing claim.

When companies build guns, for the most part, they all buy their key components from the same group of manufacturers, and they get uppers and lowers for $50 and $60, they get barrels for $200 that sell for $450 etc. So half the price is the part in bulk, and the other half is the profit margin.

For my money, I'd pick up a CMT lower and a $95-$100 M4 ramped upper, a white oak or Wilson barrel, and build a gun for cheap. If I wanted the gun to have re-sale value, I'd pay $20-$45 more for a CMT lower that had someone's "tier 1" company name stamped on it.

I once had an RRA DCM match gun that I only owned briefly, but long enough to shoot two prone sling supported iron sighted 4/10" 3 shot groups with Black Hills factory ammo at 100 yards back to back (the only range work I ever did with the gun being those two groups - the gun came sighted in. <span style="font-weight: bold">The barrel? Wilson match.- the performance? "Tier 1" in my book. </span>

 

[Dave308]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

Some companies will use the marketing strategy of inflating their prices in order to give their product the "aura" of higher quality. I could name some scope brands as examples, but I won't.

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

The federal excise tax is also a factor. If you buy a complete rifle from Noveske, their is no way around it. If you buy an upper and stripped lower from them you can avoid it.

Just about any barrel maker can produce a barrel that shoots sub MOA, if even only once. I have owned four Noveske's that all shot under one MOA, even the chrome lined carbine barrels.

When I replaced my 18 inch Sabre Defense barrel with an 18 inch Novekse barrel, I did in fact see about a 100 FPS boost in velocity using MK262 ammo. I'm sure that not everyone saw those same velocity boosts, but a properly cut chamber will give you maximum results.

I would say that Noveske's reputation when it comes to barrels is pretty well substantiated. I have never heard anyone complain that their Noveske barrel was jacked up.

Also take into account that they are fitting the bolt to the barrel within two thousandths. Anyone with an incremental head space gauge kit could do this, but many do not. Price out what a Krieger barrel cut, threaded, and chambered would cost you and I believe that you would be paying just a bit more than a Noveske barrel.

I am a fan of Noveske's because they make same great stuff. I keep going back because their customer service is excellent; they are very easy to work with. Are thier companies out there that make rifles that are just as accurate and reliable? Yes of course. Could you piece together a rifle in your garage that will be just as accurate? Yes, this is not rocket science; with a quality barrel anything is possible. But as someone pointed out resale value will suffer. I personally will not buy someone's franken-gun unless I am going to part it out.

It really comes down to what you want. The only complaints I have heard about Noveske is their price.

 

[slothlacrosse]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

customer service is a big factor in price. it costs money to have knowledgable/engish-speaking people at the ready.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some companies will use the marketing strategy of inflating their prices in order to give their product the "aura" of higher quality. I could name some scope brands as examples, but I won't. </div></div>

+1 I'm not a big fan of this strategy, but I guess if inflating our prices 20-30% meant 2-3 times the sales, we'd do that also. Make more money per sale AND sell more often? <That's a win win for the company... not so much for the customer though.

 

[chalwie]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

Asking for objective data about a company's product on a public forum is a fair question. Complaining about their price is not good taste. If you want to compare objective data, you can always do your own tests. Other members do it all the time, which is what makes these forums priceless.
I ordered a custom built Rogue Hunter upper 12.5 for a class and it worked for my purpose - lightweight and accurate. Yes, it's on the high end of pricing; but my time is short and I don't have time to build my own. I know Noveske will do the job, and all I have to do is wait for the brown box. I've bought high-end products all my life, and haven't any regrets. I save money at Costco on mass-consumption items, but when it comes to things I'll keep a long time - I spend top $$.

 

[Ragsdale 30 cal]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

Griffin Armament, my pricing breakdown was to see what each part costs individually.

Seeing what each part costs individually is helpful is seeing the overall value, or lack there of.

I subtracted $731 for third party accessories and parts which I think is reasonable. The Troy handguard, stock, pistol grip, etc. are all justifiably priced for being high quality.

I also subtracted $317 for the upper and lower receiver and sling accessories because I think those are justifiably priced as well.

If I could find out what Noveske pays for all these parts, then I would use those numbers. However, since that info isn't available, I use retail selling prices instead.

Of course, we have to keep in mind each Noveske made part already includes profit and operating costs and Noveske pays less for the third party accessories and parts than you or I because they buy a higher volume.

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some companies will use the marketing strategy of inflating their prices in order to give their product the "aura" of higher quality. I could name some scope brands as examples, but I won't. </div></div>

+1 I'm not a big fan of this strategy, but I guess if inflating our prices 20-30% meant 2-3 times the sales, we'd do that also. Make more money per sale AND sell more often? <That's a win win for the company... not so much for the customer though.

</div></div>


I'm not sure if this was the intended purpose of their pricing, but you will get more when you buy a Noveske. The same can be said for paying extra for a Larue or a GAP.

Sure, you can slap one together in your garage that may shoot whatever load/ round you are shooting better. However, to mass produce a platform in large numbers that will shoot a wide range of ammo accurately and reliably takes a little bit more know how.

As for some of the lower end companies. I have seen on several occasions, one of the more popular maker's AR15s have to go back to the company to correct problems that should have never passed quality control.


When it comes to ARs you can cut corners and put out a product that will function 90-95% of the time. If you want something that is going to be accurate and function as close to 100% of the time as you can get, you can expect to pay a little more.

 

[taliv]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

for a few years, Noveske was about the only place you could go to get "double chrome lined" barrels for AR15s with a reputation for accuracy. Are they as accurate as a $300 krieger? probably not for the first few thousand rounds... but if you want to run your stainless krieger bbl through 2-3 carbine classes per year and then make precision shots with it, my money's on the noveske bbl keeping tighter groups after a few years of classes and 3gun.

they were also about the only (non-custom) place you could get PINNED lo-profile gas blocks.

and that $400+ price for their barrel usually includes the pinned gas block

they were also reasonably innovative with the switchblock

of course, now, you can buy double-CL HF mid-length barrels from PSA for $180. competition is a good thing. maybe noveske's prices will start coming down

 

[Downzero]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

The AR design is over 50 years old, so the only way to distinguish their product from everything else on the market is to convince you that it's something that it isn't.

There aren't going to ever be any major innovations on the AR design anytime soon. It's your money to decide if the level of craftsmanship is worth the money. For me, it isn't.

 

[swimmer105]

Re: Objectively justifying Noveske's price

I used to have a Noveske N4 but sold it to get a BCM and a bunch of other high quality accessories and equipment for the same price that I spent on the Noveske. It is a nice company but I'm sure there are many other companies out there that match or exceed Noveske's quality. I personally do not think Noveske is worth the price they are asking. If you can get a discount on it then why not.