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Fieldcraft off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

Force_Multiplier

Force_Multiplier

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • May 22, 2008
    1,188
    147
    McAlester, Oklahoma
    #1
    first, this may not be totally on topic, but it does involve a lot of field craft...

    second, this is something I want as off grid as possible, but it's not a zombie compound/SHTF bunker type thing...

    I have some hunting land, it's 12 miles to the nearest town (the last 6 miles in is old logging trails, so very rough going), 6 miles or so to utilities, total of an hour drive from my house. Hauling supplies in is doable, but I'll already be trailering in quads and food, etc...

    What I'd like input on are how to have some of the comforts of home without running a generator, or anything else that takes fuel away from the quads...

    The climate here is fairly mild for about 8 months out of the year, from Oct to May, and that's the main time I plan on really using the place.

    so, my plans include a 2x4 framed cabin, approx. 12x24-28, w/ a wood burning "boxwood stove", an outhouse, a water tower/shower, and a 10x20 screen house that can be used for a bug free lounge/cooking area for the warmer season w/ another boxwood stove in it.

    Hauling supplies in is not a simple task due to the trails, so I'd like to limit trips as much as possible, weekly trips would be ideal.

    The cabin, outhouse, and screen house are straight forward enough.

    The shower plan I have is something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGhtMeIJk9Q&feature=relmfu
    just a LOT more refined... ideas appreciated... my plan is to collect rainwater and build a "water buffalo" to haul creek water/water from town, if needed...

    Another thing I'd like ideas on is electrical power (minimal, I don't want this like my house). I've found all the appliances I want in 12v (65qt chest freezer, a couple of fans, coffee pot, CB radio), I'd like a battery bank w/ a solar charger. I also have the running steam, so a small homemade hydro-electric generator would be cool. Wind is out, since it sits in a valley w/ unreliable wind. Some friends have suggested a generator, but hauling the fuel in is a PITA and potentially expensive, but a small gasoline generator used for a couple hours a day to charge the batteries, as a back up, at least, isn't out of the question.

    Other things I know I'd like ideas on include:

    Solar ovens
    Steam powered generators
    Smokehouse for meat
    Root cellars (I have a 5x8' shipping container that I want to bury)
    Ice Boxes (the kind that take a block of ice)
    Using a CB radio in a pack (think old PRC 77 pack set up)

    Though I want this built w/ modern materials, and I want to use modern tools like chainsaws, and use quads instead of horses, I want a lot of the daily living to be similar to the late 1800s or early 1900s. Cooking w/ wood fire, cutting wood, hunting/trapping, hauling water from the well/creek...

    and anything else you guys can think of.
     
    #3
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flip the circuit breakers off on your home and you are already there with half the trouble.
    </div></div>


    oh yeah... a modern house, in town... w/ the power turned off is EXACTLY the same as something purpose built in the woods...
     
    #7
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking something along the lines of a game processing area with some good tables and and things of that sort. </div></div>


    what's the juice harp for?


    and I'm thinking plastic tubs for game processing and such....

    like I said, old style living, w/ the benefit of modern materials and tools
     
    #8
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    *For the longevity of the quads, a carport type structure would keep them out of a lot of the weather. I guess you could tarp them down, but that probably isn't as effective.
    *I didn't see it specifically on your list, but a water tight container that stores first aid, fire extinguisher and flashlights at a bare minimum. I'm completely with you in regards to wanting to live simpler, but trying to stitch your lacerated hand with fishing line and a multitool fireside is not a good situation.
     
    #9
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    We have made a "still" style shower that is very nice to have in the outback. It consists of 75' of 1/2 inch aluminum fuel line coiled in a 8" tube on a gas burner(120k btu). A cooler holds the water and a 3.5 gpm 12 volt pump circulates the water through the heater and to the shower. If you have any questions about this rig give me a shout. It can heat 30 gal water in 15 minutes at 10k feet.

    R
     
    #10
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheLlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">*For the longevity of the quads, a carport type structure would keep them out of a lot of the weather. I guess you could tarp them down, but that probably isn't as effective.
    *I didn't see it specifically on your list, but a water tight container that stores first aid, fire extinguisher and flashlights at a bare minimum. I'm completely with you in regards to wanting to live simpler, but trying to stitch your lacerated hand with fishing line and a multitool fireside is not a good situation.
    </div></div>

    the quads won't be stored there, longest they'll be there is probably 2 weeks at a time...

    cabin will have 12v LED lighting, but flashlights, fire extinguisher, and a first aid kit is a given... in fact, those are in the vehicles anyway....

    and a good thing is that the place is only 12 miles from an ER, granted that 12 miles takes a 1/2 hour, but...

    and thank you for the suggestions
     
    #11
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have made a "still" style shower that is very nice to have in the outback. It consists of 75' of 1/2 inch aluminum fuel line coiled in a 8" tube on a gas burner(120k btu). A cooler holds the water and a 3.5 gpm 12 volt pump circulates the water through the heater and to the shower. If you have any questions about this rig give me a shout. It can heat 30 gal water in 15 minutes at 10k feet.

    R</div></div>

    thanks for the offer of the plans, but like I said, it's a fairly mild climate, so my plans for the shower is basically a 4x8' shed, with a black 55gal drum on top, then a Zodi tankless water heater... fill the roof tank w/ a 12v pump off the water trailer, then it gravity feeds down.
     
    #12
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Hauling the supplies in might be tricky, but have you considered a straw bale house/structure? Super insulated, very strong, nearly fireproof, very easy to contruct (think Lego's), and very inexpensive.

    northeast_view.jpg


    day-2.jpg
     
    #13
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    John and Martha Storey's "Basic Country Skills" is a treasure. Lots of things that you have already covered are in the book. Root cellars, plumbing, solar electric systems, simple yet effective construction of homes, barns, fences... All of this without the fear factor being sold by the preppers and the urban survivalists. It is just old fashioned common sense about being self reliant in the country. Enjoy this journey and keep us posted how it is working for you.

    If you've got kids, they will eat this stuff up. Make sure you can include them in as much of it as possible. Pass the baton. I'll bet their friends are stuck on their phones and not really doing anything productive with their time. It's pretty cool to actually build something with your own hands with your family beside you.

    Cheers
     
    #14
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Luke,

    I did think about a straw insulated structure and the iso panels ( foam between 2 pieces of OSB )... both would probably offer more insulation, but I think I'm just going w/ 2x4 framing and fiberglass insulation. It's easier to haul in, and I have experience w/ conventional framing.


    Chilo,

    I assume that's a book, I'll look for a copy. I do have kids, daughter will be 12 and son will be 18, both in Aug. The wife, kids, and the kid's friends are excited about it, they all like the outdoors and we went camping at the property for spring break ( actually the kid's idea ) and everyone had a blast, that's basically what got this ball rolling at the speed it is now.

    thanks guys, keep it coming
     
    #15
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    See if you can find a 30 gal barrel. Make it water tight, mount it over your wood stove.

    On the back (bottom) end cut a hole so the stove pipe goes all the way through the barrel (this has to be single wall stove pipe. Weld or braze the seems making water tight.

    Now on the other side, (top) of the barrel you have two openings, A small one (3/4 " pipe fitting) and the larger one (just like most oil drums).

    When you are building it, make sure the small openning is on the bottom, large on on the top.

    Put a water spicket on the small openning, and use the regular lid for the top, larger openning.

    Now fill the drum with water, the heat from your stove will pass through the stove pipe heating the water.

    Wont find a cheaper water heater when you don't have electricty or gas.

    -----------------------------------------------

    Kill some oiley animals, like racoon, beaver, etc. While fresh hang them up and let the oil drain into a container. After you've collected the oil store it in a coffee can. Now pour some in a can, about 1/3 full (soup can size). Put a wick (like on oil lamps) in the oil with enough sticking out of the top of the can. The wick will soak up the oil (like an oil lamp). Light the wick and you have a home made oil lamp with free oil.

    You'll have to experiment with the type of animal to use, I used seals when I was the Company Commander of an Alaska Eskimo NG Unit.

    The dried fish and meat, then dipped it in the seal oil to make it editable. Not sure if you can pull that off since there are no seals in OK.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    For water:

    When I first got to Alaska I spent two years in a 12 X 18 cabin north of McKinley Park.

    Before I built the cabin I buried a 300 gal water tank. I left a spout stick out to fill the tank, and hooked up a hand pump. Then I built the cabin over the tank. So we had indoor water.

    I don't know how far you are fron the creek, but I had a 12 volt pump that would draw water from the creek to fill the tank so my wife didn't have to haul water. This being Alaska I also didn't have to worry about the water tank under the house freezing.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    You cannot have enough windows in your cabin. Darkness will drive you nuts. You don't need to haul in glass, clear oil cloth will work just as well. Being in OK, have the windows so you can open them and use screen. Fresh air is handy in a little cabin.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Make an awning out your front door. You don't have to have a floor, but you want it covered. It's gonna be handy setting under when weather permits, those little cabins get crampy.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Get a cat, you're going to be over run by mice.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    When you make the roof of your cabin, make sure the pit is high enough you can build a loft for storage. Be careful what you put up there because its gonna get real hot.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Save your beer and coke cans. When you are using the stove, every now and then throw one in the fire (how often depends on how much you use the stove. The cans will burn (or melt) totally but will prevent build up that could cause a chimmey fire.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    For stove pipe, make sure you use 3-wall. The inter pipe will be hot, but the outer will be cool to touch.

    If you go the water heater route, use single pipe from the stove to the water heater (drum)and 3 way from the water heater though the cealing/roof. Make sure your stove pipe sticks out at least 3 feet from the roof. Use a rain cap. Careful when not using the stove because birds are going to nest in your pipe. Makea a mess when you fire up the stove.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Being OK, get a second stove and cook outside to keep your cabin from getting too hot.

    I know as soon as I close ths out I'm going to think of another million ideals I've seen or have done living in the bush.
     
    #16
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    I love the idea and often dream of living in something like that.

    My thoughts, A fram house built in like a two story, but have only the top as living quarters and have a grave/storage underneath the house. Simple construction wtith little up keep.

    Propane powered generators. The propane will store better than gas, and you could use propane lighting in emergencies just like the old campers.

    A Frame would give lots of surface area for the solar panels and hot water tank on top to have a shower inside. Run the gray water out to a drain field. Have an outhouse so you do not need plumbing.

    You get get an older camper that some one is throwing ways and salvage the propane refrigerator and range/oven if needed. A 50 gallon propane tank strapped to a trailer would travel well(no sloshing of gas ona. Rough road) and you could have two. Refill one when you head to town.

    LED lighting is expensive but would be great for the energy conserving. If you had a big enough power bank, you could have the propane generator only kick on when there was not enough light to charge the system.

    Just my thoughts about how I think it would work.

    FYI, there is also those fiberglass shells that are sold as a prefab building ready to go.
     
    #17
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    good stuff Kraig,

    I've thought about the stove pipe water heater, still haven't decided if I need it, but it's a possibility.

    I knew about animal oil lamps, dunno if I'll need quite that old school, but when I kill a bear you can bet I'll play w/ the idea for fun at the least.

    I'll have to haul water from the creek, building a "water buffalo" to pull behind a quad. I'll also collect rain water and I love the idea of storing it in a tank under the cabin w/ a hand pump.

    Already planning on windows, glass ones w/ screens....lol

    There will be a small covered porch, but the main outdoor living space will be the screen house, serves the same purpose you're talking about... also has the great airflow for warmer weather... screen to keep the bugs out ( a real concern here in Oklahoma ) and it gives a semi protected place for the second stove outside that you mention and I'm planning.

    I still haven't decided if I want a loft for storage or a full attic for the insulation.

    Thanks for the soda can tip, that's a totally new one on me.

    The stoves will be installed just like I would in a house, unless i go the water heater route, triple wall pipe, rain cap/spark arrestor ( keeps the birds out too )


    I'm also thinking seriously about a small hydro-electric generator on the creek
     
    #18
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    not bad willys ( BTW my first Jeep was a '47 CJ3A )

    propane is the best fuel, the generators are just expensive as hell...

    No prefab buildings will fit, I actually have a 12x24 prefab w/ a 4ft porch, it can be loaded on a trailer and hauled down the hiway, but it won't fit down the trails there, so I'm stuck building.

    can't even get a camper trailer in there
     
    #19
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Force,

    Glad your kids are involved. We hosted my brother's kids for their spring break. They're from Ft. Worth and had a great time out at the ranch. Killing prairie dogs and getting on steel at 700 yds was tops for the ~16 year old boy. Horseback riding and fishing topped the list for the 14 year old girl. She had a blast at the pistol range too. We probably burned a brick of .22's and close to 300 rounds of .45 just with the kids. Coming out here was the kids idea too.

    If I can get it on here, I'll link to the book I told you about.

    http://www.amazon.com/Storeys-Basic-Coun...0714&sr=8-1

    Cheers
     
    #20
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    If you have a running stream, with at least a 5-10 foot drop, you can do a turbine generator, with a battery bank and solid state charge controller to run your 12v lights and motors. Making sure the water flows year round, and keeping crap out of the turbine are the important things. And you can have a 120v invertor for running radios, and such. Solar is bulky and expensive per watt generated, but less moving parts. The coolest idea I heard about, was a guy in alaska, the had a diesel generator that ran only an hour or two a day, that pumped a storage tank of water on the 240v, charged a bank of batteries with the 12v output, and the cooling water was run through pipes in the insulated slab, with the exhaust heating a tank of hot water. System was over 90% efficient, used extra filters on a #2 fuel oil tank to run the genny.
     
    #21
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    ok guys,

    I'm leaning towards a hydro-electric system over solar, w/ a 1200 watt gasoline genny as a back up ($250)...

    my stream has probably 30-40ft of drop, it's been running every time I've been there, I'm sure it doesn't always, but that's likely to be the really hot season that I'm not using the place. So my idea is an axle and hub w/ a car wheel modified into a water wheel, axle running into a 55gal drum housing that holds a permanent magnet motor...

    also have an idea of finding an old small travel trailer to salvage for a propane fridge, sink, and small range/oven combo, maybe even the A/C off it... I'm thinking that even at $1000-1500 a small travel trailer has a LOT of parts that I could use besides the appliances, the dining booth that folds into a bed would be handy in a small cabin, I've seen some that have a toilet that is waterless (has a flap that seals after the nasty stuff drops into a holding tank under) that would be awesome in a modern outhouse.

     
    #22
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Google "Watter Buddy". This outfit sells a little turbine that will put out 50 watts on a 40 ft drop, if there's 20 gpm of water available. About $750 for the 2 nozzle model. That's enough to run all kinds of stuff from a 12 volt battery bank, and it charges about 4 amps 24/7. They also make a bigger turbine for $3000, if the flow is higher, and the head pressure is lower. There's another site if you google "home hydropower" that built a water wheel system, but it freezes up in winter. Watter Buddy runs all winter if you bury the pipes, and the water keeps running, and the inlet is screened and covered..nice unit.
     
    #23
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Mtn,

    looks like backwoodshome is an awesome site that I hadn't found, thanks

    xs,

    I want to build more than I buy, this is as much a learning experience as anything, so I'm thinking a water wheel for now, maybe build a turbine eventually.
     
    #24
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have an idea of finding an old small travel trailer to salvage for a propane fridge, sink, and small range/oven combo, maybe even the A/C off it... </div></div>

    Fire up your pick up and come see me. I have an old camper that aint worth much, but it does have a range/oven, sink, ice box, (not fridge, you need ice), Also a AC.

    You can have it for the price of hauling it off.

    Bet you can drive up here cheaper then you can pay $1000 - 1500.
     
    #25
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have an idea of finding an old small travel trailer to salvage for a propane fridge, sink, and small range/oven combo, maybe even the A/C off it... </div></div>

    Fire up your pick up and come see me. I have an old camper that aint worth much, but it does have a range/oven, sink, ice box, (not fridge, you need ice), Also a AC.

    You can have it for the price of hauling it off.

    Bet you can drive up here cheaper then you can pay $1000 - 1500.</div></div>

    that'd be awesome Kraig... if I had a pick up, instead of a Jeep, let me see if I can find a junker here for $4-500 or so... if not I might just steal my brother's pick up and make the drive... Be nice to meet you anyway.

    and I KNOW you have more ideas by now....lol
     
    #28
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    My wife and been living off the grid for 8yrs, we're 3 miles from utilities. Power our home with wind/solar, installed everything myself.

    I would suggest using a inverter and wiring the cabin for 120 VAC.
     
    #29
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    This wouldn't be part of the cabin's structure, but think about a garden. Potatoes, onion and garlic would be the base of a lot of your meals (at least they are the base of mine), especially stews/chilis from your game meat. For fresh herbs, which make ALL the difference, you might need to enclose them in chicken wire so your animal friends/future dinners don't steal them.

    We don't have much land, but we planted mint, two kinds of parsley, basil, rosemary, oregano and cilantro for probably under $15. I have four kinds of hot peppers, three kinds of tomatoes--which aren't doing well-- and strawberries for a few dollar more.

    It'll cut down on the materials you'll need to haul in and bring you a bit closer to self-sustainability and/or historic authenticity.
     
    #30
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    If you want to add a veggie garden then invest in 7 ea 16 foot hog panels. With these, make a two 16 x 16 sections over your garden spot.

    Get a couple of feeder pigs and put them in one section. Leave them there until they totally coltivate the area. They will eat everything that resembles plants, roots, etc, including weeds. They will also fertalize the spot.

    Now make another 16 ft sq. attached to the first, in the direction you want to expand the garden. The pigs will go to the new are, block it off and take the panels the pigs left and make another section attached to the second. This will get you as much garden space as you want.

    As you cut brush, grass, weeds, etc, feed the cuttings to the pigs. Of course you'll have to supplement the pig feed but in the end you'll have a couple of hogs to butcher.

    Do this each fall after you harvest your garden. The new feeders will take care of your garden residue. Pigs will eat anything that don't eat them first, so any food scraps, weeds or anything else, just toss into the pig pen.

    Another advantage to pigs running around is snakes will move out. Snakes don't like pigs, pigs like to eat snakes.

    From what I remember about OK, you have more then your share of snakes.
     
    #31
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    livestock and a garden would be great, if I were gonna be there enough, but I don't really think I will...

    at best I see getting to use it for 2-3 weekends a month, 8mo out of the year...

    but I do have plans for a "corral garden" at the main house...
    3 goats, 2 pigs, half a dozen chickens, a few meat rabbits... about 4 rows of veggies, and a row of dwarf fruit trees, all in about 3/4-1 acre
     
    #32
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Are you going to be there enough to keep unwanted visitors away? The four legged kind are bad but the two legged unwanted visitors can do a lot of damage and be really dangerous. A well put together remote homestead that doesn't get visited often might be really attractive to a meth cook or smuggler.

    Just a thought.

    Cheers
     
    #33
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chilo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you going to be there enough to keep unwanted visitors away? The four legged kind are bad but the two legged unwanted visitors can do a lot of damage and be really dangerous. A well put together remote homestead that doesn't get visited often might be really attractive to a meth cook or smuggler.

    Just a thought.

    Cheers</div></div>

    I have a neighbor that lives there full time, he keeps an eye on it, another neighbor a little farther away goes by every few days to check the deer feeders for me, and a guy my wife works w/ is at his cabin a couple mile away almost every weekend...
     
    #34
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    anyone that knows anything about power generation,

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/600-WATT-WIND-GE...=item3cc749871b

    if I can get that motor spinning at up to 2000rpm w/ a water wheel/turbine... why it won't work just like w/ wind?

    it'll supposedly start to charge a 12v battery in a 6-8mph wind, on direct drive.

    with a geared sprocket, and a correctly sized water wheel or turbine, I can get the full 2000rpm.... and it'll produce 150v @ 14 amps... or 2100 watts... but even at 4-500 watts... it'll charge a 4 battery bank w/ ease.

    the math on the water wheel says I can do a 60" wheel at 20rpm, reduced to a 2" pulley on the motor shaft for 600rpm at the shaft, which should get just over 600 watts of power 24/7 ( 1200rpm w/ a 1" pulley, 1300ish watts)

    or am I retarded?
     
    #35
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Just remember, when the generator is actually producing power, the drag on the waterwheel goes waaaay up. We engineers call this the "no free lunch" effect. Turbines run in the winter, water wheels freeze up.
     
    #36
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Force,

    One of the simplest methods of moving AND heating water that I've come across over the years, is the basic "Percolator" method. We used to travel to the bush and stay for up to 6 weeks at a time (when I lived out West [B.C.])

    Hot showers are a simple pleasure when you're 'roughing it', as most will agree. While there are many methods of doing so, most requiring more energy as a prime mover, the easiest/simplest method is a cooler, garden hose(s) and a 6 foot by 6 inch "U" made out of 1/2" black-iron pipe.

    The pipe "U" is placed on your firepit bed, and the fire is built upon it. The garden hoses are connected to each leg of the "U". The other ends of the garden hoses are connected to a cooler or insulated tank. There needs to be one connection at the bottom, and the other at the top (or through the lid). Simply fill the cooler with water and then light a fire. The water will boil in the "U", then take the path of least resistance up using the bubbles as the prime mover, only to be replaced with fresh, cold water from the lower 'supply'.

    In no time, you'll have hot water for whichever use you need. And this is with the cooler mounted at a comfortable and convenient height. Not on the ground.

    There are other manners of doing things even more 'Rolls/Royce' such as a generator driving a water-pump from the creek, flowing this through a coil that has a Tiger-Torch blowing on it, to which the temperature of the continuously running shower is regulated by the tap at the shower. The faster the flow, the cooler the water. The more you slow the flow, the more time the Tiger-Torch gets to concentrate its heat on the water in the coil. Ergo, hotter shower.

    But that is a very high energy-use method. It is also the laziest, for there is no 'carrying water' to the cooler/tank.

    Just as a start, anyways.

    If you have flowing water in a crick, then you may be able to even rig up a bit of a waterwheel for the prime-mover of the water itself. Harnessing nature's movement is far easier than most think. It is the converting it to 'electricity' that is more of a challenge.

    Using the constant flow as a constant force, though, can be beneficial for so many other things.
     
    #37
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone that knows anything about power generation,

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/600-WATT-WIND-GE...=item3cc749871b

    if I can get that motor spinning at up to 2000rpm w/ a water wheel/turbine... why it won't work just like w/ wind?

    it'll supposedly start to charge a 12v battery in a 6-8mph wind, on direct drive.

    with a geared sprocket, and a correctly sized water wheel or turbine, I can get the full 2000rpm.... and it'll produce 150v @ 14 amps... or 2100 watts... but even at 4-500 watts... it'll charge a 4 battery bank w/ ease.

    the math on the water wheel says I can do a 60" wheel at 20rpm, reduced to a 2" pulley on the motor shaft for 600rpm at the shaft, which should get just over 600 watts of power 24/7 ( 1200rpm w/ a 1" pulley, 1300ish watts)

    or am I retarded? </div></div>

    How much flow do you get on your stream?

    It sounds like you're thinking about doing this.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1edn2bhwyU
    Seems like a lot of work, but doable as long as you have enough flow to push the wheel fast enough under load.

    If you're going to for a 12v only setup, you might checkout some boating resources. Boaters have been doing a whole lot with 12v systems for a long time. alot of it won't be directly applicable, but some of it will.
     
    #38
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    So, on the topic of a camp shower, the "giant water barrel 8 feet up" idea has some basic flaws.
    1) If you don't have a well and pump, how do you plan to fill that thing with 275 gallons of water (the size pictured, but the argument works for any standard barrel size, 55 gallons is a lot, and heavy, and 8 feet up is high).
    2) If you don't have it full, your head is going to be minimal, so your water pressure is going to be teh suck.

    I've been pondering this for my own camp, and think I've found the solution in a $7 product from walmart. I bought a coleman "camp shower" to use up at my place. It's a black plastic bag that holds 5 gallons. You fill it up, leave it in the sun, then hang it above your head and it has a little shower spigot coming from it.
    http://www.walmart.com/ip/COLEMAN-SHOWER-CAMP-5GAL/13848644
    What really impressed me was the water pressure that you got from it. Nothing like a normal shower, but much more than you should get from a 1 foot drop. Looking at it a bit, I realized that when the bag is hanging, gravity forces the sides to press in, increasing the pressure.
    So, you could just get a bunch of these, maybe 4-5 of them, and have them ready to go anytime you wanted a shower.
    Or with a little work, you could rig up a *big* bag shower with one of these
    http://www.bayteccontainers.com/30-gal-aquatank-2-water-bag.html
    30 gallons is heavy, but not so much that you couldn't rig up simple blocking it lift it.
    You could heat it with a fairly simple solar heater
    http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Solar-Thermal-Collector/
    or just paint it black and see that it gets plenty of sunlight.
     
    #40
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good god... Gravity does not force the sides in.

    Have you ever spent the nite outside of your moms basement? </div></div>

    I simplified it, trusting people to be able to fill in the details themselves. My mistake.
    Gravity pulls the water down to it's lowest potential point. In a non rigid container, that force on the *bottom* (from gravity) pulls the sides in, pushing against the contained water.
    Listen, that's my explanation for what I observe. The water pressure I get out of a suspended bag shower is higher than what I get out of rigid tank of the same volume at the same height. Maybe there's another explanation that's more accurate. The point is that this is how I'm addressing the issue of a shower in a remote site that doesn't have running water or electricity. Do you have something to add? How do you handle showers at your hunting camp?
     
    #41
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hauling the supplies in might be tricky, but have you considered a straw bale house/structure? Super insulated, very strong, nearly fireproof, very easy to contruct (think Lego's), and very inexpensive.

    northeast_view.jpg


    day-2.jpg
    </div></div>
    I've heard great things about those homes. But what are the exterior walls made out of? Obviously, you don't want the straw to get wet and start molding on you.
     
    #43
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    We use propane lights and cook stove in our hunt cabin. All plumbed outside to a disconnect. We haul in propane tanks and you would be suprised how long a couple 20# tanks will run lights and a stove. I also use black water tanks on top of my horse trailer for a gravity/12v pump shower. Any time at all in direct sun during non winter months makes for a decent warm shower. The percolator hot water method Sean talks about above works well and is easy to set up. You can make one permanent with one of your stoves but you will need to run the water through a faucet with a cold/hot mixer for showers because the water that comes out of the heater is HOT. We did as Sean and put the coil in the fire bed.
     
    #44
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    There's a handy trick that can be used to great effect if you want some super easy walls.

    Grab some large hessian bags and a bag of cement.

    Erect some poles to stitch the hessian too and stitch the bags together(single layer only) and then to the poles.

    Then quite simply paint them with cement.

    When it dries you will have paper thin waterproof walls that will last you years, or at least until your kids can't hold it back any longer and punch holes in them(which is seriously good fun). Not really suitable for the main building but these make excellent enclosures for showers and lavatories.

    Along the same vein, don't be afraid to knock up some mud bricks, they can also be used to great effect.

    Hardly modern tech but old school is not always a bad thing.

    I don't know how much effort you wanted to put into your floor but given the chance I'd be looking at raising it off the ground.
     
    #45
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Just thought I could add a few ideas.
    First CB radios suck, bad. You could get a 5w handheld Ametuer radio and bd much better off especially if you and the neighbors all get one. Think of it as the ultimate emergency communication tool. The test to get licensed isn't all that hard you just got to take the time to do it.
    Second can you get your Jeep up to the cabin? If so you could have a basically unlimited supply of hot water if you could get near the creek. Check out the Helton heat exchangers on crusieroutfitters.com I've got a on board hot water shower setup on my Discovery for when we go camping. It's the shit
    Lastly ditch the fiberglass insulation and go with foam. Even just the foam panels have a great R value. But you have two was the AB stuff would be excellent. You can get a sprayer setup that uses an air compressor and two 5 gallon buckets. The panels would be the easiest and then you don't have to mess the PIA that is fiberglass. Not to mention the rats don't make best in foam as easy.
    I'm interested in seeing what solution you wind up using for the generator too. Good luck and I bet the kids will love it
     
    #47
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    ok, been a while since anyone really posted here (crazy part of that is I found another SH member on a cabin forum....lol)

    so, plan is coming together...

    I decided to scrap the solar and hydro ideas, for now, found a 5500 watt Briggs and Stratton "storm responder" generator on Craigslist for $300... I'm going to wire the lights and all for the cabin 12v ( and as much else as I can, be it through an inverter or direct 12v DC ) then run the generator for a few hours a day to charge the batteries. This seems like the best balance between start up cost and long term fuel cost/ hauling fuel in... It also gives me the option of running a window A/C in the summer time and tools... along w/ the fridge and freezer I'll talk about next.

    Fridge and Freezer... found 5.5 cubic foot chest freezers at Lowe's for $180ea, one I'll run basically as it comes from the factory, the other I'll add another thermostat that will essentially convert it to a chest refrigerator. I'll add insulation to each to make them a little more efficient. None of this is very experimental, off grid people commonly add insulation to refrigerators and freezers, the fridge/freezer conversion is tried and true.

    several of my neighbors use standard fridge freezer units and only run their generators for 6-8 hours a day in the cooler seasons and about 12 hours a day in the heat of summer, this seems to be enough to keep the food cold. my plan w/ the chests will be even more efficient due to the fact the cold air falls, in fact it falls out of a front opening unit, but most will stay inside a chest (this is why grocery stores use chests, and they're usually open topped even) add the extra insulation and it works even better.

    as for water, I found a 325gal food grade IBC tote for $55, I thought about Kraig's idea of burying it under the cabin, but I'm just going to put it in a mini water tower beside the cabin, harvest rain water from the roof ( w/ a first flush system and filter ) then use an electric pump to distribute the water, basically like an RV... before anyone asks, this will probably be non potable water only, I may decide to treat it for drinking at some point, but if I do I'll have it tested. as a back up for the rain water, I'll convert a small quad towed trailer to a "water buffalo", so I can haul water from the creek.

    still planning the outhouse, it's been simplified slightly w/ a composting bucket toilet, which allows me to make the outhouse a full 3 piece w/ a shower, sink, and toilet.

    still looking for an old travel trailer to buy and strip for the oven, but if I can't find one, I'll just use a small propane range/oven combo.

    now for the experimental stuff.

    I want to build a wood "gasifier", sometimes called syngas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1nC0E1WlWs&feature=relmfu
    I'll use the generator with regular gasoline, maybe forever, but at least until I can perfect the gasifier, IF I ever get the gasifier working, I can use it to run the generator, propane stove, etc...
     
    #48
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Force, I'll have pic's of our cabin after this weekend. Pretty much everything you described. The shack is wired 12 volt for the lights and the stereo. Yes it has a built in stereo, even wired speakers out in the shit house
    smile.gif
    It's also wired 120 volt for when we run the generator, again the shit house is also wired 12 volt and 120. Solar panel is on the shit house, and that's where the batteries and charge controller are stored. We run a propane refrigerator and stove for our cooking/food storage needs.
     
    #49
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Sounds great Northern... are you on Small Cabin Forum too?... as soon as i can sneak away for a weekend, I'm going to my place w/ the chainsaw ( hopefully I can get my buddy w/ the tractor to go too ) and start getting the foundation in
     
    #50
    Re: off grid hunting camp/weekend get away

    Great ideas here, once we got serious.
    I was looking at a house in Texas last month, and was impressed with his solar conversions.
    His battery bank, which is always the highest maintenance part of the system was a really cool move.
    He bought batteries from the local phone company. They have a 12 year life, and he buys them at half life. He pays about 15 dollars each, and the phone company pays about 60 dollars new.
    He had them hooked up as two banks of 120 volts DC, and run through a converter/inverter (i can never remember which is which) to make A/C, and switched each day from charging to draining. He ran all chargers, his computers, a light in each room, and surprisingly, a freezer! He builds his own solar panels, but said that panels were falling in price so fast that he won't build them any more, just buy them.
    His solar water heater was a flat panel, running into a water heater, that was not hooked up to electricity, then into the other one, which had a small meter on it to read water temp, and a tiny LED to tell when the city power was being used. He said the city power was almost never on except after several days of clouds.
    His heating was done with a wood stove, (rare in Texas, but we heat with wood all the time in Oregon) with his A/C return sitting right next to the stove, drawing warmed air into the rest of the house. In summer this is the lowest part of the house, so it is drawing the coolest air into the A/C. I have to download my images off the phone, but when I do I will post the photos of the system.
    I use some flat panel solar panels that charge my RV batteries, and this year I am changing over to a 6 volt system (two batts adding up to 12 volts). I start the gen set about once a week. We stay in elk Camp a full month, and can really extend the stay.
     
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