PRS Talk Offhand stages

[natdscott]

dont get in your feels...i wasnt attacking your discipline, your skill level, or your success...but being that this is a PRS based forum topic...how well you can shoot a different discipline, with a different rifle, time frame, etc...it doesnt really apply...because there is a different set of standards

Shit.

I HAVE no feels.

But read on through the rest of my post...you may find I said what you just said.

 

[Rob01]

I don't want you to do anything. But yeah, you misunderstood my point. I don't use the 60yr old formula either (now), but it's not bc I didn't know what it was. Dudes, I shoot the same matches you do. I'm not preaching Scientology here. You just got offended and are dead set on disagreeing. You keep misunderstanding the point I'm making bc you're sure Im knocking YOUR sport.

I am not upset or taking it personal but why do I need to know a 60 year old formula if I have all the data at hand? I know what my wind is for my round and as we all know the wind is a best guesstimate anyways. So knowing and using a formula is just like wanting to drive a model T in the Daytona 500 to show you can. You want to use a formula all the power to you. I run my data prior to a match and have it all set up with a 10mph full value and I can easily and quickly adjust to the wind call at the stage. Same end results as a formula.

And again I am not taking it personal or even care much how people feel about these matches as I just like to do as you said in pack up, show up, shoot and have fun with friends. There are plenty of sports you can stick with shooting fundamental positions. PRS is a more "directionless" sport on purpose. It's meant to throw things at you that you need to work around to make hits. It's not 10 rounds standing, sitting and kneeling at 200 and then move to 300 and do the same. That would bore me. But it's also not about not knowing how to shoot like that as you might have to. You need to practice everything. That's what it boils down to and another part that I like because it keeps me a well balanced shooter.

So keep at it but this is a long drawn out discussion over nothing really as there are different sports for the reason of people doing what they like to do.

 

[lte82]

That's why I believe it's important to understand every cog in the machine and be able to isolate the skill. To dissect it for improvement.

Do you shoot for fun?

 

[Sheldon N]

I actually think that it's just like Morgan said and that it was an early attempt to provide some baseline stages that could be used throughout the country and the "skills" moniker was only half -heartedly meant and a person shouldn't take it very literal.

Agree with this, probably would be more accurate to call them "standard" or "benchmark" stages. Not about fundamental skills, though they do use them. It's more of an easy way to compare performance across matches across the country.

When I hear that someone shot a 49 second clean on the PRS barricade stage, I know exactly what that means and how difficult it is because I've shot the exact same stage many many times myself.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Do you think the fundamentals are different?
1. Position
2. Aiming
3. Breathing
4. Trigger

no, but how/when you apply them in a PRS match vs High Power vs F Class or whatever else arent the same

did you miss ite's info about coming off high power and getting into prs? why didnt he just come in and starting winning since he was obviously skilled in another discipline? fundamentals are all the same right?

you still havent offered up any better ideas...just complaining that theres no step by step handbook for you to follow

 

[RyanM]

Wheww, This is getting hard bc I'm doing this on a cell phone...

What's that? That it's odd that a sport that defies convention made the effort to standardize skills? Or that the particular selection of skills is odd and that it's an indication of random direction?

Maybe it is because you are on your phone but half the time I literally (not like how a millennial uses the word but actually literally) can not tell if you are agreeing with other posters or not.

I don't think anyone on this thread is saying the PRS exists in a vacuum and all of its skills are special and different than other shooting disciplines.

I think what is happening is that people from other disciplines are coming into the PRS circle and tell us how to do things (@morganlamprecht mentioned this earlier). Sometimes the advice is good and other times it is not. We have a guy in Canada who has never shot a match and recommends the Rem 783 as a starter rig... He shoots F-class and if I remember correctly has been quite successful in the past. However, his success in F-Class does not mean he will be successful in PRS or other disciplines. His drive and base skills would probably help but he will have to learn a lot as well.

I am not taking anything away from anyone who is a successful shooter in another sport. I respect them and their skill but I am not going to take barricade shooting tips from a BR shooter. Wind reading tips? You bet I will take advice from anyone in another discipline if the skill they have is directly transferable to what I am trying to accomplish.

 

[natdscott]

I think I was the one who revived this thread from October.

Ya'll can thank me later.

 

[Rob01]

@Rob01

"PRS is a more "directionless" sport on purpose."

That's the part that gets me to pontificating occasionally. You challenge someone's perspective of why it is what it is that their doing and it doesn't go over well. BC, fun and it's in the next match, that's why.

And I don't think it's on purpose either. The Precision Rifle community (Not just PRS) is fractioned heavily with NRL and the renegade matches that have their own flavor (Competition Dynamics, unk distance, and natural terrain, moving over terrain with all your shit), etc

It is on purpose because of all those matches doing what they do because they do what people want. If people didn;t want any of those then they wouldn't be there. It's not fractured but just not super structured like you seem to think it should be. PRS and NRL are just groups looking to structure by trying to have a finale and points race etc. Neither really does anything for me but I will shoot the matches as I have for many years before either were an idea in someone's head and will after they go away. "PRS" has become a generic term for what was tactical/sniper long range matches. I don't like everything that is going on like the use of multiple bags etc but it's part of the sport now and has been adopted by many shooters. I still practice with bags and no bags as i am not losing my skill set.

Do you think it would be more fun being more structured? I don't. It's fun for people due to having to shoot the stages and style of shooting that it is. People do this for fun. That kind of gets lost in the mix sometimes but it's what this all boils down to.

 

[308pirate]

How much do we use our Skills stages? Are they put to any greater use than an occasional use just like any other de facto common stage?

That is a fair question

 

[RyanM]

@reubenski

Knowing your background things make a bit more sense.

All I know is that PRS is lots of fun and people seem to enjoy it for what it is. If it wasn't fun I wouldn't do it anymore.

Who knows, maybe some day in the future a PRS training manual can be created based on a standard set of skills. I personally like that at matches I see 5 different people tackle an obstacle in 5 different ways. If they are all completing the stage successfully who am I to say one way is better than another.

I recently bought the JC Steel video series and the M. Blanchard book, both of those guys are top rated shooters and their advice in some areas is very different. If you hop on instagram and look at PRS shooters (good ones) you will see lots of barricades posts and lots of ways to tackle them.

All part of the fun.

As the F-Class guy says in Canada - horses for courses right?

Thanks for your service.

 

[delfuego]

I freaking hate standing offhand.

You said it brother!

My 16-18lbs rifle was never meant to be fired offhand. I think this is a hold-over from old-timey matches and military qualifications. I dread these stages, partially becasue I suck at them and becasue my shoulder is held together with string and good intentions. I am literally in agony for the 1-2 minutes of these stages and sometimes for the rest of the match afterwards. I (and lot of others) have bitchin' tripods, why in the world would I (or should I) shoot at a target without them? Last match I shot in 2017 was a benefit "fun" match. The MD was clueless and had some dumb stages, but his standing, kneeling, sitting, prone stage was retarded. 700y ipsc at a fun match. I sucked on this stage (go figure). Ironically the only decent scores were put up by PRS ninja's using "Utah Yoga". Looked weird , but they made hits. These positions would have been tossed right out of any HP match.

I also hate these stupid boat/bouncy house stages. The are gay and gimmicky. Man made barricades are kinda the same, but I get those. Not everyone gets to live out west where we have land with ridges and rock outcroppings to shoot from. If you have square range, you have to make it challenging. I still prefer true field matches, but there are fewer of those around nowadays. The NMNRL was a great match, no man-made anything, no viewing of stages before hand, you had to locate targets on the clock. Unfortunately a few of the big name PRS people/teams sucked and complained it was too hard and they weren't allowed to game enough and had to walk from stage to stage. This year they are not having it, back to Special Olympics I guess....

High Power is like Karate lots of rules and only useful against Karate. PRS is MMA, use whatever work and throw out what you don't need. Borrow from anyone and anything. I am no PRS fanboy. We often refer to it as PMS or Special Olympics. But I still travel and compete in the big matches, because they are fun and difficult.

I think I was the one who revived this thread from October.
Ya'll can thank me later.

- You're a dick -

 

[natdscott]

- You're a dick -

Whenever I can be, I am!

 

[morganlamprecht]

Now we are getting somewhere....

I would love to have this conversation over a beer with a bunch of fellow, knowedgable shooters. We could go on for hours. I'd be hammer drunk before we figured them all out. Frankly, you have to establish an endstate or direction before you can name your key tasks, or enabling learning objectives, or your path to the goal. And that is the MF'r of it. If you are to get a bunch of PRS Shooters together and asked them the endstate it would be different for all and similar for some. Here are a few of the anticipated answers.

1. Get away from the wife to do guy things with the guys. Immaterial what that is exactly

2. Beat other people in competition and feel good about myself. Immaterial what that is exactly

3. Have fun at a hobby that I enjoy. Immaterial what that is exactly

4. I like shooting long guns in a way I can't explain and whatever long gun challenge an MD sets before me is fine; I just want to be challenged and meet them. (That is 90% me)

5. Want to be a sponsered badass and I throw shit when I lose

But not to cop-out, I'll answer some of your questions.

1. I actually think the PRS barricade is a pretty good one for excatly the reason RyanM quotes... except I'd like to see asymmetric sides so your not repeating the same positions. Probably a short, crouched window, and an awkward low not-prone and not-kneeling

2. Mover. I know movers are expensive and break often but you have to admit shooting a moving Target at distance the ultimate skill...for skills sake.(I won't even go down the realistic road)

3. Breaking positions. On apparatus that require a couple of steps from each othe. On an accumulated stress test (or IPSC/ 3G stage) the shooters ability to move into shooting positions and out of shooting positions fluidly without a bunch or fidgeting and mis-stepping is the difference between a pro and an amateur.

3a. A variation. I ran this stage at a club match I directed. Learned this from the AMU guys as an isolation drill to gain speed in the gas gun match. Stepping back one step from the PRS barricade, on a pro-timer, drop into one shooting POS and fire one Rd at the tgt. (12" at 300yds) <4 secs = 3pts, <6secs = 2pts, <10secs = 1 pt. Reset and repeat 4 for a total of 5 runs using a different spot on the bde, Shooters choice, may not repeat pos twice. This isolates your ability to step right into a NPOA on tgt. The key is to keep your eye on the tgt, watching gun-tgt line in your peripheral and using that to guide the guns barrel within a few mils of the tgt, lastly dropping your cheek onto the comb and efficiently transferring your eye to the scope. If you're successful the tgt will be within a few mils and you can move and shoot (trigger control, wbble zone) if you've gaffed NPOA and and your body isn't behind the gun or you've gaffed gun-tgt line and your outside 8-10 mils or worse the FOV and you have to drastically shift your body over to achieve a sight picture, you've gaffed NPOA and your wobble some is going to be huge. This is an advanced extension of a dot drill.

A couple more ideas based on relevant skills.

1. Maintaining a consistent zero thru solid position fundamentals is key to having good data, a day 1 task and critical to beginners. The 10rd dot drill is an exercise (a drill) that works that basic skill and builds muscle memory and eliminates cognitive action. The shooter needs to be doing other things in this moment than congniively focusing on "... head position...okay, sight alignment,.....ugh,...support hand...NPOA..interrupted trigger squeeze, now natrual respiratory pause, double check sight picture and algnment, ...ughh,now squeeze...ughh"

2. True'ing data at distance. Core skill. How are you going to shoot a precision rifle match with shitty data or inconsistent loads. 4 tgt out to 1200, 2moa tall and 3mph wide...


Just a couple of ideas of the top of my head before my typing thumb explodes.

Where does a mag change rack n' stack in a 10rd match against the above skills?

Most of this is good stuff but how easy is it to implement into a match?

The prs barricade, I agree, shouldn’t be the same both sides or at least make it strong and support side

Movers, hell yea, shoot them all the time at RO and movers are some of my favorite stages...especially when there is movement between shots and u have to require the target

RO also still does a lot of 100 yd dot drill type work...most people don’t like it cause it’s old school I guess

Truing data is an invaluable skill but idk how you’d put that into a match without wasting everyone’s time, things like this are what I’d expect people to do on their own, in practice, not at a match. Actually had a good example of this, this year...at Alabama my barrel died on day 1, dropped off 50 fps...I noticed it while shooting a long range stage, made adjustments on the next 2 stages and I think I finished 21st for the match and still shot decent. At a club match a few months later, a newer shooter had his barrel slow on him also, he’s a really good shooter, but doesn’t have a firm hold on the rest of the skills yet and struggled all day, finished way below his normal placement. He didn’t know how/why his dope was off, and didn’t know what to do to fix it while on the fly.

The mag change part I’m pretty sure came from Rifles only...they make u go mag out between every position movement, and people suck at it...that’s why they still do it

 

[morganlamprecht]

Here's a spin on the skills stages that I would like, especially if they were relevant skills that determine how well a shooter will do during any given match.

Shooters skills stages scores get sucked into the PRS website and your historical high score and most recent score get displayed. You then get to see how you rack n' stack against all of the other shooters in country at critical tasks that matter.

I actually think this was mentioned at one point when they first got announced but it just never came to fruitition...I remember someone talking about it but it I’ve slept since then

 

[Sheldon N]

Only downside with a national ranking for the PRS skills stages is that they are enough of a speed race already. It's presumed that you'll clean it so guys would just be flat out flying try to put their name on a leaderboard in a match where they didn't care about the outcome. If you care about placing well in the match it's way smarter to shoot a 50-60 second for sure clean rather than a 45 second blitz run where there's a 50/50% chance that you'll drop a shot or two.

 

[Rob01]

Rob, at the risk of going round 2...

What do you mean exactly when you say you "know" what your wind is for your round? You have it memorized for every hundred yds at every mph?

Or your BC knows it and it tells you specifically for those targets on the stage you are about to shoot?

What if I told you there was a way you could determine your base wind call/ drift prior to jumping into a 90 sec 10rd hose fest and ad lib'ing like a beast using your last impact to correct to center. Sure, most of the time, you could use your AB 5700 or what have you but imagine if your brain computer natively had the ability to wrangle all those numbers without the BC? Sure you'd have to tune the rule of thumb for your DA the morning of(if it's always different) . I'm not saying you have to use it for every tgt but you can get your base wind call for your lull and gust just like you do with your pre-made data card.

But, I guess I'm a hypocrite poking the bear bc im shooting a Trmr; I just hold wind dots and adjust a little more or less based in impact. I'm not doing a formula...ha ha! ...but I know how...

No I mean I have my data for my round being used and I do run my data in 10 yard increments at the 10mph full value. Using that it's fast and easy to adjust for the conditions at hand before a stage. Not memorized but on my gear to comprise my stage plan before shooting. I know there are military short cuts using the bullet BC and yardage etc but they are not as accurate as correct data put into a ballistic program. I go to a match to win. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn;t but I do everything I can to make it happen and using generic wind formulas isn't something I would use when I have more accurate data.

Reubenski, not my first dance either. Been shooting precision rifles for 25 years and competing for 15. Not a sniper/sniper instructor but I know how to put the bullet where I want it. Been doing pretty well without a formula.

 

[morganlamprecht]

It doesn’t really matter how accurate any wind formula is or isn’t

What matters for prs is the shooters ability to call the speed/direction correctly during the 90 seconds he has to engage the target...you don’t have wind flags or time to sit there and observe anything or wait until the conditions are just right...it has to be done on the fly

 

[Rob01]

Not doubt you are and no doubt you have been. Don't let my question poke the ego. I took plenty of faceshots above about " irrelevant wind formulas" and I ain't no chump either. But you get my point about the value of a rule of thumb or formula, right?

And they're not generic or any less accurate than your .1mrad turrets ability to dial or hold the difference. The fact that you're saying they're not accurate tells me you aren't familiar with them. You might want to check out some of the modern ones, you might be surprised at how accurate they are and how fast a skilled shooter can employ them. Fast is what you practice.

Never said you were a chump. You are the one taking shots. Doesn't poke my ego either. You are really thinking pretty highly of yourself to get under my skin. LOL

And no the rule of thumb formula holds no value for me. Why would it when I have run specific data?

Well why don't you tell us all the new formula and how to use it if it is so much better than ballistic program data?

 

[Rob01]

Well let's hear it. If I find a better way to do something I use it as I take advantage of anyway possible to do better.

And yes I do use something to get a baseline wind data prior to a stage. Anyone who doesn't would be an idiot. Looks like you edited that part out of your post.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Yes, your ability to straight up call the wind speed is rougher than your brains ability to execute a rule of thumb. And Yes, you don't have time to call winds for every tgt in a stage, BUT your still developed a method for deriving a base wind call, right? You and all the guys that came before you. That settled on a common version of what most PRS Shooters use. How does it work. You use a a 10mph wind value as your base soeed, call it a full value wind and then 1/2 it for 5mph (at that specific distance), etc Pro-rate it? Right? Would you say that is the most common method for PRS?

Not in my experience...I use my kestrel prior to a stage...I get a high and low value, then I look at Terrain features that may cause the actual wind value to be more or less than what I’m reading at the shooter position...then I make a judgement call and adjust the wind speeds in my kestrel...I jot down a low, mid, and high wind value for each target...if I engage target 1 with my mid wind value and it’s not enough, I adjust to my high, when I progress to the next target I continue to use my high value...basically make my own “wind dots”, I don’t base anything off of a base wind for my actual calls...if I can’t use my kestrel for whatever reason then I would run a base wind

This is the same method myself and the others in my group at the prs finale were using

 

[morganlamprecht]

Come on man, I thought u had somethin new? Lol
This isn’t new at all...base wind adjusted off BC of the bullet...the base wind changes if you’re shooting .3, .4, .5, etc bc bullets

 

[morganlamprecht]

@morganlamprecht

"...if I can’t use my kestrel for whatever reason then I would run a base wind"

How does that work?

Pretty much exactly what u just posted...a base winds based off bullets BC

 

[morganlamprecht]

I don’t wrangle any numbers in my head at all because I spent 5 yrs fighting in cages off and on, and can’t remember eating 30 minutes before hand sometimes lol I have to write it down or I’ll forget it

 

[Rob01]

Come on man, I thought u had somethin new? Lol
This isn’t new at all...base wind adjusted off BC of the bullet...the base wind changes if you’re shooting .3, .4, .5, etc bc bullets

Thinking same thing and that is the method I was thinking of earlier. If it works for you Reuben then rock it but I will stick with my data from my program. I do very similar to what Morgan does at matches.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Why did you think it's new? It's been around for quite awhile. And it's accurate to a .1 mrad.

BTW, The number isn't based on the bullets BC. That is a foolish way to get numnuts to remember the first digit of his BC. My .284W is a 7 gun and the bc is .660

It's based off of a coincidental pattern. It's just pattern anaylisis and learning how your brain chews thru short cuts and developing a simple rule of thumb.

You were acting like it was new and a break thru that was gunna change rob’s world...not me

And yea, spin it however you want... it’s bc/velocity based on what amount of wind pushes the bullet .1mil for each 100 yds...

You way overhyped it...

 

[morganlamprecht]

"..btw I’d round .660 to 7".

Jeezus dude, ok how about this, my 7WSM is a 10 gun pushing 180 HVLD's at 2960 at 10K in the mountains....and the BC is .670 or .680. Round that shit to 10 you obstinate PRS shooter....

Read and thought it wrong while driving, didn’t consider the changing DAs off the top of my head....also why I edited it after realizing the mistake

 

[morganlamprecht]

point was, your method ain’t new and it still requires you to call 6mph or whatever else correctly or you miss

 

[morganlamprecht]

I actually read about that method on the Hide years ago before i owned a kestel

 

[djarecke]

Todd Hodnett has been teaching this method for years. It's not new, and still requires you to call wind within a gnat's behind.

 

[natdscott]

Can we just take a break and talk about spin drift?

 

[morganlamprecht]

Did you go out and shoot it long enough to give it a fair shake? I learned from Jerry Barnhart that new technique isn't going to come easy and you have to give it an honest assessment before discounting it. That dude has tried so many techniques. He pioneered shooting minor class for a title. That's innovation.

I don’t recall saying it was inaccurate, I said it still comes down to your ability to call the wind correctly whether you’re using a kestrel, chart, or formula

 

[308pirate]

Do we have a basic disconnect where some people believe that matches must have some sort of training value or be some sort of training evolution and some who believe that matches are simply competitions regardless of applicability to the real world?

 

[morganlamprecht]

Well maybe you just suck at explaining whatever it is you’re trying to explain because I’m not following what your base formula does, that a kestel or chart doesn’t, if you guess the wind wrong...enlighten me?

 

[308pirate]

GD't @308pirate ! You pulled me back in for second!

WUT?

 

[308pirate]

Well maybe you just suck at explaining whatever it is you’re trying to explain because I’m not following what your base formula does, that a kestel or chart doesn’t, if you guess the wind wrong...enlighten me?

Ya I'm lost too.....

 

[djarecke]

Oh, God....it's 2:30am...why would I try to convince anyone on the internet of anything...so stupid...

....dive, turn, look, pull....

Hey man. I never said it was inaccurate. This is exactly the method I use if I don't feel like pulling out my Kestrel when the wind changes. I'm just saying Hodnett uses it.

Plus spin drift is awesome...

 

[Curtis Gordon]

Thanks for the feeback!

You are very much correct that they are not very fun.

I run some small club type matches in Canada with a couple of other guys (20-60 shooters, one day event type deals) and I am always looking for ways to screw with the competitors. I think the targets would have to be quite large (4MOA+) and it would have to be a low point stage (6 rounds) to avoid guys getting too annoyed at me. I might have to make it a sling prone stage or kneeling/sitting.

I find that when guys are .5MOA shooters on the internet they turn into 1.5MOA shooters pretty darn quick on match day and offhand I would think that if someone can hold 4MOA that is pretty darn good.

Where do you hold the club matches in Canada?

 

[scalian]

Last one i shot was a full size ipsic at 400 yards

 

[Vinootz]

I'm new to this forum.Nice to see offhand shooting is not a lost skill. I have not seen anyone shooting offhand at my gun club in PA. and FL. Nor at any of the public ranges. I find it more challenging and satisfying. Can anyone tell me what the NRA and military 10 rings are at 200 yards(and other distances)?

 

[natdscott]

10 = 7"

 

[Vinootz]

10 = 7"

Thanks

 

[Vinootz]

i dont really care for offhand stages because IMO (and most others ive heard from who dont like it) that isnt what these rifles were built to do...the last 2 offhand stages ive had to shoot in matches were at 250-300 yds on either a 66 or full size ipsc, cant remember the target size exactly...one of the stages was 10 rounds weak side in 60 seconds, the other was 10 rounds strong side in 60...i hit 10/10 weak, and 9/10 strong...its not a matter of not being able to do it...i just kind of see it as a waste of ammo i took time to reload

my other issue with it, is most of the time MDs want to dictate position...i never like that...whats the difference in shooting seated with just me and my rifle, if i can find a better position than traditional seated? its still just me holding my rifle...same with kneeling or standing...there are 3 or 4 ways i would shoot from seating and kneeling before ever using the traditional setup if i had a choice, because they work better...and being 6'5 240 lbs, what works for most average size people...aint a good fit for me, and vice versa, i can do things others cant because of my length

 

[Vinootz]

Interesting that so many folks engage in various competitions. No doubt there are many good shooters posting in this forum. Quite impressive actually. Growing up in Brooklyn we learned how to duck in case the bullets are coming your way. So I know I’m excellent at ducking-lol. Probably not an expert ducker as a veteran that served active duty , but good enough. And probably not as good a shooter as many posting here.The thing about competitions is they are great at testing various, challenging shooting talents. That is a good thing. I do think they lack in recreating bullets coming back at you though. Heck, paintball is probably more effective in that capacity- and still not the real thing. Happy shooting and learn how to duck or hide behind something if a bullets coming your way. In the future matches will have minor explosions on the barriers That competitors shoot from as if enemy fire were hitting the barrier you are behind. There may even be soft impact projectiles that hit the competitors similar to paintball. Incendiary flares and other various reenactment devices in a hostile zone. It will probably be called virtual 3 gun.

 

[spife7980]

Incendiary flares aren't a thing. Flares are meant to provide light. Incendiary grenades and munitions melt things. Two different things. But I can see how they sound the same...if you're from Brooklyn ?

Vonootz's ideal prs stage

 

[Vinootz]

Incendiary flares aren't a thing. Flares are meant to provide light. Incendiary grenades and munitions melt things. Two different things. But I can see how they sound the same...if you're from Brooklyn ?

.

 

[PAYDIRT]

What I meant is some type of fiery explosion whichever it may be. But thanks for the proper terminologies. Also the primary point is that competitions can be made much more interesting in an attempt to reenact
an enemy firing back at you. You can have a bridge you run across where there is an explosion and tosses you a few feet. I’d wager you will see these type of challenges added to enhance and add a thrilling aspects to firearms competitions. You might see a TV production first in an American Gladiator type of format. The military may enhance training in such ways. The future is limitless and I believe you will
see such competitions and military training facilities.

I don't want to stand in line next to anyone that would want to participate in that nonsense let alone be around them with firearms.

 

[Vinootz]

I don't want to stand in line next to anyone that would want to participate in that nonsense let alone be around them with firearms.

Me neither. Have fun competing.

 

[Vinootz]

Vonootz's ideal prs stage

? lol Good one.

 

[Dunraven]

I freaking hate standing offhand. We build these rifles to be super heavy low recoiling barricade positional shooting guns. 26" MTU or Heavy Varmint barrels, with as big of a brake as you can hang off the end. I know guys running 4 port Sidewinder or Fat Bastard brakes on their Dashers, lol. Plus now you can even buy steel weights for your MPA chassis to make it even heavier.

Last damn thing I want to do is hold that rifle standing offhand.

I still practice it because some match director sometime is going to make us shoot it. Still hate it, still think it's dumb.

Granted I'm not as strong as I was. Trying to hold a 17+ pound rifle up to shoot off hand is really tough, and my opinion is that we shouldn't be asked to do it. Kneeling, sitting, prone, fine.

 

[natdscott]

At the end of the day, the PRS game is just that...a game. If y’all don’t want to stand and shoot, then penalize the organizers for making you do so: don’t go, protest it, pitch a bitch fit, invent a non-existent safety issue, etc.

It is a HOBBY, so it should look like one. If it were only one guy, then he just needs to harden the fuck up. But it seems like a lot of you don’t like shooting on your feet.

In the larger sense of Riflery though, my opinion is that if you cannot shoot passably on your feet, you’re not yet a Shooter...you’re a guy that shoots some.

I have no illusions about mine being a popular opinion.