Rifle Scopes OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

Jimmy2Times

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Minuteman
Jun 5, 2005
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Amesbury, Massachusetts
Ok, I have read the FAQ on USO's site and am familiar with the EREK knob, what it does and how it works. I have an ST-10 on order and opted to go with a standard elevation knob and not the EREK since I have a 20 MOA base on my rifle. I know most folks here go for the EREK and I was curious as to why. On the USO FAQ page it says it is designed for flat top or 0 MOA base weapons. I see a lot of guys putting EREK knobbed glass on rifles with tapered bases and was just curious as to what the reasoning was?

 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

The nice thing about the EREK setup is that you can move the erector assembly so a tapered base isn't required. You can basically bottom out the elevation with your zero yardage and be assured you have all the available elevation in the upward direction. I've butchered this I have no doubt, but that's the gist.

You're right that this system doesn't require a tapered base, but the 20 MOA base was a bit of a standard and sometimes more available than a flat base.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: long-shot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The nice thing about the EREK setup is that you can move the erector assembly so a tapered base isn't required. You can basically bottom out the elevation with your zero yardage and be assured you have all the available elevation in the upward direction. I've butchered this I have no doubt, but that's the gist.

You're right that this system doesn't require a tapered base, but the 20 MOA base was a bit of a standard and sometimes more available than a flat base. </div></div>

No you didn't butcher it at all, nicely put actually. I figured most guys were just trying to max out their elevation but for me, 1000 yards is my limit and the US#3 M40 knob and a 20MOA base will get me there just fine. I may go with the EREK for my Barrett, however.

Thanks for the insight!
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: long-shot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The nice thing about the EREK setup is that you can move the erector assembly so a tapered base isn't required. You can basically bottom out the elevation with your zero yardage and be assured you have all the available elevation in the upward direction. I've butchered this I have no doubt, but that's the gist.

You're right that this system doesn't require a tapered base, but the 20 MOA base was a bit of a standard and sometimes more available than a flat base. </div></div>

Cannot agree with this statement. If you go with a flat base, regardless of the knob's ability to be zeroed, at long range you give up much of your reticle windage travel due to the fact that the inside of the scope is round, not square.

Conversely, at close range with a canted base (20 or 30 MOA) your reticle is again limited in windage travel, however this is not an issue as you need little wind dialed in at close range.

If you look closely at USO's accessories - rings and bases - you'll see that you have your choice of cants combined with windage adjustable rings, allowing you to optimize the use of your reticle travel.

Having an EREK knob does not obviate the desire for a canted base.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: long-shot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The nice thing about the EREK setup is that you can move the erector assembly so a tapered base isn't required. You can basically bottom out the elevation with your zero yardage and be assured you have all the available elevation in the upward direction. I've butchered this I have no doubt, but that's the gist.

You're right that this system doesn't require a tapered base, but the 20 MOA base was a bit of a standard and sometimes more available than a flat base. </div></div>

Cannot agree with this statement. If you go with a flat base, regardless of the knob's ability to be zeroed, at long range you give up much of your reticle windage travel due to the fact that the inside of the scope is round, not square.

Conversely, at close range with a canted base (20 or 30 MOA) your reticle is again limited in windage travel, however this is not an issue as you need little wind dialed in at close range.

If you look closely at USO's accessories - rings and bases - you'll see that you have your choice of cants combined with windage adjustable rings, allowing you to optimize the use of your reticle travel.

Having an EREK knob does not obviate the desire for a canted base. </div></div>

OK, you've lost me completely. I'm not seeing what ANY of this has to do with windage. I think you're just speaking way over my level of knowledge.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

Are not all USO scopes from the factory set for a 20moa base? Fairly sure I was told this.

I wanted and ordered the EREK but hope it is not too complicated for a simple man.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

The EREK is not hard to understand, just take a few minutes working with it to figure it out. Well worth it.

As to the windage limitation...
When you make adjustments you are moving the erector tube which resides inside the main scope tube.
If the erector tube is at the very center of the scope tube, the erector has the roughly the same space to move in any direction.
As you move the erector tube to an extreme, say, all the way up por down, the erector tube will be in close proximity to the scope tube and will lose some of the windage adjustment range that was available when the erector was centered in the main tube.

So there is more windage adjustment range with the erector centered, and less as it moves towards it's limits in elevation.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: long-shot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The nice thing about the EREK setup is that you can move the erector assembly so a tapered base isn't required. You can basically bottom out the elevation with your zero yardage and be assured you have all the available elevation in the upward direction. I've butchered this I have no doubt, but that's the gist.

You're right that this system doesn't require a tapered base, but the 20 MOA base was a bit of a standard and sometimes more available than a flat base. </div></div>

Cannot agree with this statement. If you go with a flat base, regardless of the knob's ability to be zeroed, at long range you give up much of your reticle windage travel due to the fact that the inside of the scope is round, not square.

Conversely, at close range with a canted base (20 or 30 MOA) your reticle is again limited in windage travel, however this is not an issue as you need little wind dialed in at close range.

If you look closely at USO's accessories - rings and bases - you'll see that you have your choice of cants combined with windage adjustable rings, allowing you to optimize the use of your reticle travel.

Having an EREK knob does not obviate the desire for a canted base. </div></div>

OK, you've lost me completely. I'm not seeing what ANY of this has to do with windage. I think you're just speaking way over my level of knowledge. </div></div>


+1, EREK is for Elevation, not windage.

Per Arnold the USOs (even ones with EREK) are calibrated for use with 20 MOA bases from the factory.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

My SSDS SN3 was Zeroed with the 20 MOA base. Actually hitting 300 yard target with it being bore sighted only and dialing the 300 yards on the Erek. I needed the 20 MOA base to get to 1000+ with the .308 175SMK @ 2650fps. Great Scopes BTW.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


+1, EREK is for Elevation, not windage.

Per Arnold the USOs (even ones with EREK) are calibrated for use with 20 MOA bases from the factory. </div></div>

Thanks for the insight - now back to me no longer posting in threads where guys like you obviously know more about things like this than I do.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


+1, EREK is for Elevation, not windage.

Per Arnold the USOs (even ones with EREK) are calibrated for use with 20 MOA bases from the factory. </div></div>

Thanks for the insight - now back to me no longer posting in threads where guys like you obviously know more about things like this than I do. </div></div>


Feel free, no one is stopping you.

Just failed to see what windage has to do with the EREK, unless you are using that example to explain the limitations on elevation. Even then your logic eludes me.

I'll bring this to Arnold when I drive over there hopefully this week to pick up my USO to see if he can make sense of it.
laugh.gif
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The EREK is not hard to understand, just take a few minutes working with it to figure it out. Well worth it.

As to the windage limitation...
When you make adjustments you are moving the erector tube which resides inside the main scope tube.
If the erector tube is at the very center of the scope tube, the erector has the roughly the same space to move in any direction.
As you move the erector tube to an extreme, say, all the way up por down, the erector tube will be in close proximity to the scope tube and will lose some of the windage adjustment range that was available when the erector was centered in the main tube.

So there is more windage adjustment range with the erector centered, and less as it moves towards it's limits in elevation. </div></div>


This I understand much easier.

Thanks Rafael.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


+1, EREK is for Elevation, not windage.

Per Arnold the USOs (even ones with EREK) are calibrated for use with 20 MOA bases from the factory. </div></div>

Thanks for the insight - now back to me no longer posting in threads where guys like you obviously know more about things like this than I do. </div></div>


Feel free, no one is stopping you.

Just failed to see what windage has to do with the EREK, unless you are using that example to explain the limitations on elevation. Even then your logic eludes me.

I'll bring this to Arnold when I drive over there hopefully this week to pick up my USO to see if he can make sense of it.
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Read the post a few above yours.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


+1, EREK is for Elevation, not windage.

Per Arnold the USOs (even ones with EREK) are calibrated for use with 20 MOA bases from the factory. </div></div>

Thanks for the insight - now back to me no longer posting in threads where guys like you obviously know more about things like this than I do. </div></div>


Feel free, no one is stopping you.

Just failed to see what windage has to do with the EREK, unless you are using that example to explain the limitations on elevation. Even then your logic eludes me.

I'll bring this to Arnold when I drive over there hopefully this week to pick up my USO to see if he can make sense of it.
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Read the post a few above yours. </div></div>


Read.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

I understand what NineHotel is saying. I do not understand which setup is more conducive to what he is saying. EREK knob has to do w/elevation and windage. The scope works at its best when the erector is in the middle of the tube.

ex. (i know it is kindergarten) Draw a circle and put the crosshair directly in the center of the circle. Look at the travel you have left to right. Take the same circle and move the crosshair near to the bottom of the circle. The scope would have no windage adjustment, but a lot of elevation adjustment.

Just thinking. Could be wrong. Will wait for a scope guru to clarify.

-Al

PS. Horus....put the H27 in a poor man's scope and I will love you...thank you for your time.


PSSSSS...on the flip-side, I have never held 4mils of windage....move closer...I know off subject.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

Jimmy2Times,

I bet that ST-10 will be bad-ass.

I had a USO w/a EREK knob and it is low profile, easy to manipulate and fast. That is the allure of the EREK knob in my personal opionion...and it is pimp too!

-Al

PSS. I wonder if this should be more of a 34/35mm tube vs. 30mm tube debate? (elevation/windage)
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

FWIW...I agree with Ninehotel completely. He knows what he is talking about.
I was just elaborating on how windage limitation occurs at extremes of the adjustment range........as he pointed out.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW...I agree with Ninehotel completely. He knows what he is talking about.
I was just elaborating on how windage limitation occurs at extremes of the adjustment range........as he pointed out. </div></div>

+1
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

Easy to read, and readjust especially when your in a hurry. Singe turn elevation knob is just awesome. And yes it is the best looking elevation knob on the market. I've been eyeing another SN3. I've dropped the scope, banged it, and dragged it around. No issues. Built super strong. I have a 35mm tube, and I'm now looking for a 30mm tube for a light built.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The EREK is not hard to understand, just take a few minutes working with it to figure it out. Well worth it.

As to the windage limitation...
When you make adjustments you are moving the erector tube which resides inside the main scope tube.
If the erector tube is at the very center of the scope tube, the erector has the roughly the same space to move in any direction.
As you move the erector tube to an extreme, say, all the way up por down, the erector tube will be in close proximity to the scope tube and will lose some of the windage adjustment range that was available when the erector was centered in the main tube.

So there is more windage adjustment range with the erector centered, and less as it moves towards it's limits in elevation. </div></div>


This I understand much easier.

Thanks Rafael. </div></div>

Nine's explanion was clear and correct in his first post. Perhaps you would have got it sooner had you used you brain for a second in stead of just looking to bust balls the first chance you got.

Kindergarteners make me laugh
sick.gif

 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

Well Guys I personally think that it was a great explaination especially for an Sub Swabbie like myself.
Thanks to all those who took the time to put it out there in laymans terms, I do not think I could have explained as well myself
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: long-shot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The nice thing about the EREK setup is that you can move the erector assembly so a tapered base isn't required. You can basically bottom out the elevation with your zero yardage and be assured you have all the available elevation in the upward direction. I've butchered this I have no doubt, but that's the gist.

You're right that this system doesn't require a tapered base, but the 20 MOA base was a bit of a standard and sometimes more available than a flat base.</div></div>

This is obviously completely wrong but since NineHotel seems to have confused everyone, I figured I'd take a crack at it...

The location of the erector inside the tube when zero'd is purely a deterministic outcome of physics and mechanics. The erector will be where it needs to be so that the line of sight through the scope intersects the trajectory of the bullet at a certain location. No turret design is EVER going to change this fact. The turret is just a means for accurately stepping the erector screw up and down in a repeatable manner.

However on the subject of using a flat vs 20MOA base...

You've got a little round piece of glass inside there with the reticle engraved on it and it has to move up and down in order to effect how the reticle is oriented relative to your LOS. When that little piece of glass bumps into the top or bottom of the scope tube then that's as far as you can go.

The 20MOA base tilts your scope downward so that when the scope is zero'd the reticle is sitting much lower in the scope tube than it normally would with a flat base. This means that it can move upwards farther from it's starting position before it hits the top of the tube. So you get more effective elevation out of it. Again, the turret design makes no difference in this.

What NineHotel was referring to is because the scope tube is round that little piece of glass has more room to move left and right when it is centered than when it is at the extreme top or bottom of the tube. This isn't an issue at the bottom because you generally don't need that much windage at short range, but at long range you can run out of room to move the reticle left or right if it is scraping against the top of the tube when you've dial on 10 Mil. By using a 20MOA base you make that 10Mil point lower in the scope tube so that there is more width to let the reticle move left and right and so you have more available windage at those ranges. Obviously if you dialed even MORE elevation then the same problem would return, but when you've dial 16Mil instead of 10Mil.

Again where the reticle is positioned in the tube @ 10Mil above your zero is NOT effected by what kind of turret you have but rather by what kind of scope base you have (20MOA, 30MOA, flat, etc) and your height above the bore.

The EREK is nice though, no denying that.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW...I agree with Ninehotel completely. He knows what he is talking about.
I was just elaborating on how windage limitation occurs at extremes of the adjustment range........as he pointed out. </div></div>

My first EREK.....
SN-3, 5x25, TPAL, EREK, Ill ret etc sitting on a 20MOA base.
338, zero'd at 600yds.

I'm really liking it so far. Will post up range reports along the way.

index_1.jpg
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

To me the Erek is a knob with a whole lot of clicks in a low profile package whose diameter is large enough to make those clicks solid and positive. People neglect to notice that the center screw allows for analog adjustment of your zero. Something that is nice for a knob that's in 1/2MOA clicks.
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

Alright so I obviously was wrong with my assessment of the EREK system! What's the purpose according to you guys?

I can say I've never run out of windage at any range using this scope and others like it with a .308 out to 1K. In fact I barely use half the total elevation provided.

I also know that many of us use the bottom of the erector as a make shift zero stop, and this is the first I've ever heard of running out of windage from anyone. Interesting point... just never heard of it.

Does this actually happen, or is this a hypothetical experiment?
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

Beyond improved ergonomics, only real advantage I know of vs other turrets is that with the center screw you can EXACTLY zero it, rather than "mostly" zero it. With most scopes you can end up with your zero sitting half way between two steps on the turret. Click up one and you're shooting an 1/8th MOA high, click down one and you're shooting an 1/8thMOA low. With the EREK you can tweak it so that you are EXACTLY on zero.

If this is any practical advantage, I don't know. I like the form-factor though.

ETA: And just to reiterate, the "running out of windage" thing has nothing to do with using an EREK or any other turret. It was injected into the conversation purely because people were talking about using a flat base and having enough elevation. The point is that sure you may technically have enough elevation travel, but will you have enough windage when at the extreme of what your scope tube can support?
 
Re: OK, let's talk about EREK knobs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: long-shot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I also know that many of us use the bottom of the erector as a make shift zero stop, </div></div>

Uh, no-one uses the bottom of the erector for a zero stop. More EREK mis-information. USO specifically tells you NOT to bottom the erector in the scope tube. That is why step 1 in adjusting the knob is raising the erector with the center screw before bottoming the knob and coming up a quarter turn.

Using the EREK in a zero stop like function involves bottoming the knob, not the erector.

My video goes over all this. Mac has moved it on me again. Let me see if I can find it and re-post.