Older large dog tore ACL- Surgery or not?

[Crang]

Well on Sunday our buddy Pecos tore his CCL all the way through. Hes a 10.5 year old Rot/GSD mix and about 93 lbs. The last 4 months have been rough with him having pains creeping in from spondylosis- already had to give up our regular hikes and even long walks but his quality of life around the house was still really really good. Its been hard to keep him calm from aggravating it- he still wants to go be a maniac and chase squirrels, etc. Ive had a few Rots and GSDs both and know how this usually goes at this age- had prepared the wife for the fact this would likely be our last Christmas we could count on having with him, although it wouldnt surprise me at all if he had have another in him as while his body is starting to fade his spirit is 100%.

Anyway now that the CCL is torn through trying to figure out whats best for him. Have not had an animal with this injury. Specialty vet yesterday had the surgeon look at him and said he need it for sure. I'm concerned at his age and life expectancy its a lot to put him through. It doesnt help the surgeon said $5K but if we shop around maybe $3K. I asked about getting him a custom brace and the vet didnt seem to think that would help, although Ive seem some reviews online that look pretty good. Anyone tried a brace? Wish they hadnt done the surgical route or glad they did? I dont want him to be in any more pain than he has to be while being realistic about where he is in life.

 

[Olen_4504]

my dog had this surgery. he tore it in one leg (we didn't know the issue at first, thought he just sprained/strained something and was limping).

we waited to see how it would heal up on his own before taking him to the vet to see what the issue was. while he was limping around and favoring his good leg - he tore THAT ccl even worse than the first leg.


took him to the vet and were given two options for surgery. a $6k-7k surgery with plates and stuff. or a $2k surgery with a nylon (?) fiber that re-joins the ligament. we obviously opted for the much cheaper option.

recovery was a bit long - but he's back to his old self. can jump and run but after awhile he gets sore. the other tear healed up on it's own while he was laid up from surgery for the bad tear.

I am happy we did the surgery.

but i have told myself when he's being reckless - if he tears the other one again - he's not getting another surgery. I love my dogs with all my heart. but thousands of dollars for a dog that lays around 90% of the day anyway just doesn't make sense to me.

i honestly don't know what i'd do if he was much older and didn't have much life ahead of him. that's a tough decision.

best of luck. i'd ask around about that nylon attachment surgery

 

[Crang]

Thanks- yeah I love my guy more than anything too. Been camped on the floor with him for 2 days now trying to keep him chilled out- its definitely really bad pain even with all the drugs he still crying. With his weight and spondylosis we cant have him just hop around on the one good rear one as it will likely get injured too and thats the end if he does. Using a towel under his belly to take the weight off his back end when he needs to move, but thats going to get old real quick. Looking at harnesses but seems like more of a short term solution.

 

[Olen_4504]

Thanks- yeah I love my guy more than anything too. Been camped on the floor with him for 2 days now trying to keep him chilled out- its definitely really bad pain even with all the drugs he still crying. With his weight and spondylosis we cant have him just hop around on the one good rear one as it will likely get injured too and thats the end if he does. Using a towel under his belly to take the weight off his back end when he needs to move, but thats going to get old real quick. Looking at harnesses but seems like more of a short term solution.

I'm so sorry to hear your pup is going through that. it tears me up. you have a tough decision to make for sure.

i Guess i was fortunate that my dog was still young and strong enough (and stubborn) to move around even with TWO bad legs. goofy thing just walked around on his two front legs - it was hysterical. but he wasn't visibly in pain or crying or anything.

keep us posted what you end up doing. and i hope it turns out.

 

[Seed tick]

He’s family do the surgery if your able. My .02

 

[Crang]

I raise them and have faced this decision a few times.

I had to let a few pass but after that pain from losing them we made the decision after them that unless it was financially impossible or simply not a reasonable benefit to the dog then they were going to get the treatment.

Yes it can cost and many will say a dog isn't worth and from their point of view they are might be right it but I strongly disagree.

Its your call but believe me you will sleep and feel better.

Our main concern is that at his age and life expectancy its going to be a lot to put him through. Meeting with our regular vet Friday to discuss treatment options and want to be prepared. A big part of the decision is whats going to be less painful and traumatic for him at this point. Was hoping a custom brace would make the surgery a bit more moot since thats the least invasive of all but really cant find anyone (other than the kind of reviews that I never trust) who has actually bought one.

 

[D2junky]

In the heavier larger breed dogs, despite what some surgeons will say, this surgeon is a believer in a PROPERLY placed and performed lateral suture. It will give him the stability he needs to prevent continued deterioration of the joint.

Braces that actually work are effective. These are custom made. Have to be. The over the counter ones don’t offer much support and lead to pressure sores.

Most people consider a TTA or TPLO to be the gold standard. Both procedures have their pitfalls but are generally reliable and there will be minimal lameness post op if done properly.

At his age I would go with a lateral suture and not think twice.

 

[D2junky]

Btw, I generally do them for less than 1k.

And if they offer rehab do it.

 

[LawnMM]

Pet insurance is a life saver these days, I'd rather pay a bit every month than have to come up with 7-9k in a bind

 

[Crang]

In the heavier larger breed dogs, despite what some surgeons will say, this surgeon is a believer in a PROPERLY placed and performed lateral suture. It will give him the stability he needs to prevent continued deterioration of the joint.

Braces that actually work are effective. These are custom made. Have to be. The over the counter ones don’t offer much support and lead to pressure sores.

Most people consider a TTA or TPLO to be the gold standard. Both procedures have their pitfalls but are generally reliable and there will be minimal lameness post op if done properly.

At his age I would go with a lateral suture and not think twice.

Thank you! TPLO is what the surgeon had recommended. I'll do my homework on a lateral suture. The middle road seem like it may fit the situation best given everything else-

FWIW the brace I looked at was a $900 custom job so probably pretty close to the cost of the suture.

 

[D2junky]

Thank you! TPLO is what the surgeon had recommended. I'll do my homework on a lateral suture. The middle road seem like it may fit the situation best given everything else-

FWIW the brace I looked at was a $900 custom job so probably pretty close to the cost of the suture.

I’ve been doing sutures a long time, clear back to the days of Nylon leader from bass pro. They’ve come a long way and some of the newer systems (stay the hell away from securos) are pretty skookum.

 

[Olen_4504]

I’ve been doing sutures a long time, clear back to the days of Nylon leader from bass pro. They’ve come a long way and some of the newer systems (stay the hell away from securos) are pretty skookum.

I guess the suture is what they did for my dog. i just remember it being the cheaper option and they mentioned nylon? it was a little more than $2k though. i wish it was only $1k or under like you said you did them for. haha.

it seems to have worked really well though.

 

[D2junky]

I guess the suture is what they did for my dog. i just remember it being the cheaper option and they mentioned nylon? it was a little more than $2k though. i wish it was only $1k or under like you said you did them for. haha.

it seems to have worked really well though.

I have my own bastardized way and no longer use nylon. It tends to stretch but it’s just a place holder for the body to do its Thing.

And yes....I’m probably too cheap.

 

[Maggot]

Its a tough call. My one comment is, that just like us, when they get older they dont heal as well or as fast.

My black wolf hybrid (in the photo to the left) came down with a really rare liver fungus. All in all a year later Im in $,6000 and still have at least 6 months of $130 per month (5 pills twice a day) antibiotics to go, with no guarantees. Had I known all this in the beginning I might have let her go, but in retrospect Im glad I didnt. She's truly an amazing creature.

Good luck.

 

[Maggot]

Thank you! TPLO is what the surgeon had recommended. I'll do my homework on a lateral suture. The middle road seem like it may fit the situation best given everything else-

FWIW the brace I looked at was a $900 custom job so probably pretty close to the cost of the suture.

I have my own bastardized way and no longer use nylon. It tends to stretch but it’s just a place holder for the body to do its Thing.

And yes....I’m probably too cheap.

You two should PM and see if youre close enough do do his surgery.

 

[abn31c]

When my 6 yo lab tore up his knees last year I was sick. Took him to a dog hospital and was told the "right" way to fix it would be 4200.00 per knee. I couldnt write the check fast enough. The recovery was long and extremely painful for my dog. For 3 weeks I carried him out and held him while he did his business, I am not sure if I could put an animal through this again.
He's fine now but he will not see the goose pit again. I like and trust him more than all but a few humans, but feel guilty for putting him through this.
It's a decision only you can make, I wish you both the best.
Gary

 

[SilentStalkr]

Well on Sunday our buddy Pecos tore his CCL all the way through. Hes a 10.5 year old Rot/GSD mix and about 93 lbs. The last 4 months have been rough with him having pains creeping in from spondylosis- already had to give up our regular hikes and even long walks but his quality of life around the house was still really really good. Its been hard to keep him calm from aggravating it- he still wants to go be a maniac and chase squirrels, etc. Ive had a few Rots and GSDs both and know how this usually goes at this age- had prepared the wife for the fact this would likely be our last Christmas we could count on having with him, although it wouldnt surprise me at all if he had have another in him as while his body is starting to fade his spirit is 100%.

Anyway now that the CCL is torn through trying to figure out whats best for him. Have not had an animal with this injury. Specialty vet yesterday had the surgeon look at him and said he need it for sure. I'm concerned at his age and life expectancy its a lot to put him through. It doesnt help the surgeon said $5K but if we shop around maybe $3K. I asked about getting him a custom brace and the vet didnt seem to think that would help, although Ive seem some reviews online that look pretty good. Anyone tried a brace? Wish they hadnt done the surgical route or glad they did? I dont want him to be in any more pain than he has to be while being realistic about where he is in life.

I didn’t have time to read through the other posts so I hope I don’t duplicate what others have said. First, sorry to hear about the pup, that’s tough and I have been there. I guess it depends on how much you love the dog. For me it was no question because he was only 3 at the time. We were presented with options and pricing. Turns out there is two different types of surgeries to correct, one is significantly cheaper than the other but runs a much greater risk of injury again. We went with the expensive option where the surgeon goes in and reshapes the bone somehow around the area keeping it from happening again. The downside is, it’s super expensive and has a pretty lengthy recovery. Oh and if nobody has told you, even if you get the one side fixed, go ahead and set aside money and count on the other tearing cause it’s guaranteed to happen while the other is healing. Mine had to have them back to back. Poor guy was down for like an entire year of his life because of these surgeries. However, he did great afterward. He is now 13 and is showing some bad signs of arthritis but once he gets going he is ok. Keep in mind 13 years old is pretty old for dogs of this size. Oh and care credit is nice if you need to pay payments. I have probably $40k in my mutts. It’s a lot of money but follow your heart and you’ll be good.

 

[Crang]

You two should PM and see if youre close enough do do his surgery.

Already did- would have been great. Im definitely willing to drive a state or two over even but unfortuantely its a lot further than that-

 

[BoilerUP]

Had TPLO surgery on my 10 year old black lab last fall...spent way too much money on it, but he's a family member not "just" a dog.

 

[abn31c]

I didn’t have time to read through the other posts so I hope I don’t duplicate what others have said. First, sorry to hear about the pup, that’s tough and I have been there. I guess it depends on how much you love the dog. For me it was no question because he was only 3 at the time. We were presented with options and pricing. Turns out there is two different types of surgeries to correct, one is significantly cheaper than the other but runs a much greater risk of injury again. We went with the expensive option where the surgeon goes in and reshapes the bone somehow around the area keeping it from happening again. The downside is, it’s super expensive and has a pretty lengthy recovery. Oh and if nobody has told you, even if you get the one side fixed, go ahead and set aside money and count on the other tearing cause it’s guaranteed to happen while the other is healing. Mine had to have them back to back. Poor guy was down for like an entire year of his life because of these surgeries. However, he did great afterward. He is now 13 and is showing some bad signs of arthritis but once he gets going he is ok. Keep in mind 13 years old is pretty old for dogs of this size. Oh and care credit is nice if you need to pay payments. I have probably $40k in my mutts. It’s a lot of money but follow your heart and you’ll be good.

Yep, was never about the money,
He's my friend.

 

[Veer_G]

We had this done. At 93 lbs., go for nylon option ("tightrope") rather than letting them cut bone out, or "TTA." Have laser therapy thereafter. It was forever but the surgery took, given the therapy. It's been five years for our little girl and she's had no issues.

 

[Spicerack]

Good evening,

Had an 8 year old English Mastiff that tore up a knee. Wife was real close with that good boy (he kept her safe and consoled over a couple of deployments) and we paid to have surgery done. It was weeks of recovery, up to 30 pills a day, hand feeding him mushed up boiled burger and rice because he didn't want to eat anything, the towel under the body for support when he needed to move, lots of nights sleeping on the floor with him in case he got sick form all the meds. In all it probably ended up with 8 months of good quality of life over his last two years and we savored every second of the good times. At the time the wife convinced me it was the right thing to do, but looking back it probably wasn't fair to put him through all that agony just to make us feel better. I miss him every day. But was it worth it? And I'm not talking about the money, that was not an issue. Doubt I'll ever figure that out.

Good luck @Crang.

Semper Fidelis,
Aaron

 

[Veer_G]

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[armorpl8chikn]

Sorry about your dog....it's a tough spot. I've been there.
Our most recent situation with Oscar was about 18 months ago.
He was sick, wouldn't eat, yakking up what he did eat. Wife took him to vet. Vet said we needed to take him straight to emergency vet hospital for scan and x-rays etc, about $2k just for tests. Vet said he had a blockage. Pretty good diagnosing on the fly there. Wife said give him some antibiotics and let's wait. Vet got pissed.
Took him next day to "country vet" in small town over. Vet said let's try some antibiotics.

My buddy was just fine Saturday night. He is 11 now.

Oscar had a torn ligament in his knee 4 years ago. Wife had talk with vet in England at the time. She had insurance on him too. Vet recommended wait and see, make him comfortable. Suggested that a dog his age may never fully recover from the surgery, and that sometimes we are a bit to selfish in our decisions to "do whatever it takes".

Our fur babies don't understand pain like we do. They can't really tell us what kind of pain they are in. They will do anything to please us, including endure pain.

I can't tell you what to do, nor would I attempt to. It is a personal decision only you can make.

I would suggest that you ask yourself the question, whether you are doing this for you or for the pup.
It's not a matter of money, it's about being honest about putting your pup through something they might not understand, or possibly recover from without much suffering.

 

[Crang]

Yep, was never about the money,
He's my friend.

Definitely. Not about the money- if it needs to be done will find a way.

Sorry about your dog....it's a tough spot. I've been there.
Our most recent situation with Oscar was about 18 months ago.
He was sick, wouldn't eat, yakking up what he did eat. Wife took him to vet. Vet said we needed to take him straight to emergency vet hospital for scan and x-rays etc, about $2k just for tests. Vet said he had a blockage. Pretty good diagnosing on the fly there. Wife said give him some antibiotics and let's wait. Vet got pissed.
Took him next day to "country vet" in small town over. Vet said let's try some antibiotics.
View attachment 7160730
My buddy was just fine Saturday night. He is 11 now.

Oscar had a torn ligament in his knee 4 years ago. Wife had talk with vet in England at the time. She had insurance on him too. Vet recommended wait and see, make him comfortable. Suggested that a dog his age may never fully recover from the surgery, and that sometimes we are a bit to selfish in our decisions to "do whatever it takes".

Our fur babies don't understand pain like we do. They can't really tell us what kind of pain they are in. They will do anything to please us, including endure pain.

I can't tell you what to do, nor would I attempt to. It is a personal decision only you can make.

I would suggest that you ask yourself the question, whether you are doing this for you or for the pup.
It's not a matter of money, it's about being honest about putting your pup through something they might not understand, or possibly recover from without much suffering.

Thats it exactly. To a T. Ive already decided against the TPLO surgery the surgeon said was best. Putting him through a 6 to 12 month recovery when thats about how much time I expect he has left is cruel at best. The nylon suture suggested here is what Im going to be talking to the vet about instead. Or a brace. Doing nothing isnt an option either at his weight its just asking him to tear the other and thats not right either-

 

[Crang]

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Thats next up. Certainly less ghetto than the towel Im using-

 

[ameliamont63]

Your dog must have been in a lot of pain. I'm so sorry to hear that. Similarly, my dog suffered an ACL injury and underwent surgery. It took her a few months to fully recover. In preparation for her first surgery, I researched online and found this very detailed information about TPLO. My goal as a dog lover is to do what is best for my dog. The first few months will be quite challenging since they won't be able to move very freely. You need a lot of love and patience. Minji has now recovered from that phase and is stronger than ever. We both send you lots of love.

-Amelia

 

[Aftermath]

Your dog must have been in a lot of pain. I'm so sorry to hear that. Similarly, my dog suffered an ACL injury and underwent surgery. It took her a few months to fully recover. In preparation for her first surgery, I researched online and found this very detailed information about TPLO. My goal as a dog lover is to do what is best for my dog. The first few months will be quite challenging since they won't be able to move very freely. You need a lot of love and patience. Minji has now recovered from that phase and is stronger than ever. We both send you lots of love.

-Amelia

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Your dog must have been in a lot of pain. I'm so sorry to hear that. Similarly, my dog suffered an ACL injury and underwent surgery. It took her a few months to fully recover. In preparation for her first surgery, I researched online and found this very detailed information about TPLO. My goal as a dog lover is to do what is best for my dog. The first few months will be quite challenging since they won't be able to move very freely. You need a lot of love and patience. Minji has now recovered from that phase and is stronger than ever. We both send you lots of love.

-Amelia

Pssssst!

We don't fucking care, Amelia.

Its been 3 years. His dog could be dead by now.
Be gone, Necromancer!

 

[UKDslayer]

Pet insurance is a life saver these days, I'd rather pay a bit every month than have to come up with 7-9k in a bind

Speaking of - anyone have luck with the Costco-sponsored Pet insurance covering pr-existing?

 

[mvphilly]

My big lab tore his once and we did the surgery. He was 7 bat the time but fully recovered.He also had a cancerous toe amputated and came back fine. Dogs are so resilient.The funny thing about the toe surgery is he has a fiberglass cast on for a few weeks and when he would get up at night o get a drink or whatever he sounded like Captain Ahab and his ped leg walking across the hardwood floors.My wife and i would be hysterical as he click clocked along.He was a great dog.