Once fired Brass

[rickp]

I'm getting ready to start reloading .308 175gr ammo for my AW.

I'm using 175gr SMK bullets, with Varget powder and 210M primers.

I have a BUNCH of once fired match Winchester brass that I've always kept after shooting.

So my question is how does that affect my case prep during the loading process?
From my understanding this brass is somewhat formed to my chamber now so I'm not sure if and how that changes things for me.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Once fired Brass

Assuming this brass was fired in the same gun, you don't need to full-length resize. The brass has already been fire-formed to your chamber (partially, anyway). You just need to neck size. After a few more firings, you will probably need to f-l resize or at least push your shoulder back a tad. At some point, the brass gets formed so tightly to your chamber that there's not enough extra space for easy cycling.

I'd say neck sizing then trimming are your minimum requirements. Depending on how anal you are, you could customize your brass a bit more than it comes from the factory. Deburring the flash hole and uniforming the primer pocket are pretty standard. After that there are several options from neck turning to annealing.

At some point the brass will need cleaning, either in a vibratory tumbler or one of the newer ultra-sonic units or stainless steel media tumblers. It's not as crucial if you're only neck sizing. All it takes is one piece of hard crud to get into a full-length die to ruin the die.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Once fired Brass

If the brass was fired in your weapon FL size it with a .001 shoulder bump, NS works but once you need to FL your accuracy load will change, FL every time ensures consistent case demensions, FL sizing every time also makes ammo that will feed with boring reliability.

Clean your brass
Uniform Primer Pockets
Deburr Flash Hole from the inside
Brush the inside of your necks
FL resize with a .001 - .0015 bump
Trim to a Uniform Length
Deburr the inside and outside of the neck
Prime the Brass
Charge the Brass with Powder
Seat Bullets
Shoot them

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: Once fired Brass

It all depends on how much effort you want to put in. You can get away with de-priming, re-priming and off you go.

 

[jeremybowlin]

Re: Once fired Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the brass was fired in your weapon FL size it with a .001 shoulder bump, NS works but once you need to FL your accuracy load will change, FL every time ensures consistent case demensions, FL sizing every time also makes ammo that will feed with boring reliability.

Clean your brass
Uniform Primer Pockets
Deburr Flash Hole from the inside
Brush the inside of your necks
FL resize with a .001 - .0015 bump
Trim to a Uniform Length
Deburr the inside and outside of the neck
Prime the Brass
Charge the Brass with Powder
Seat Bullets
Shoot them
</div></div>

Plus 1 this is how i do it. You could go with a redding FL bushing neck sizer also.

 

[rickp]

Re: Once fired Brass

Thanks guys. Yes about 98% of the brass was shot from my current gun. The other was shot from a REm 700 I had a few years back.

So more times than not Im being told to just neck size, and only FL resize when you have to.
Same with trimming, only do it when you have to.

I will be deburring the primer hole, checking for primer hole uniformity, etc...

This is my first time loading for precision so I just want to make sure I do things right.

Thanks guys,

 

[Graham]

Re: Once fired Brass

Forget about neck sizing unless you want to take up another sport, like Benchrest. Full length size, every time, for what we are doing.

 

[rickp]

Re: Once fired Brass

Hey Graham,
Why, what the difference? Everyone is telling me to do the opposite.

 

[trailrider121]

Re: Once fired Brass

Here is some good reading and understanding about Full length, neck sizing, and partial full lengthening brass.

by: Germán A. Salazar

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/06/basics-resizing-case-dimension-changes.html

 

[Graham]

Re: Once fired Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Graham,Why, what the difference? Everyone is telling me to do the opposite. </div></div>Why? Because we want reliable functioning, we don't use minimum spec. chambers and we don't turn necks.

Case sizing means controlling three dimesions: case neck inside diameter; case neck outside diameter; and (case) headspace.

The difference is that Benchrest shooters don't FL size every time because they fire form a few cases in a tight chamber and then just worry about subsequently sizing the necks to lightly hold the bullet. They don't need to FL size (although some do) because case expansion in a tight-neck BR chamber is almost nothing.

FL sizing can reduce the effects of case warp. And when using cases that are not prepped and not segregated, or maybe also fired in a different chamber, only neck sizing will probably make the cases worse (meaning more inconsistent).

Besides, in most cases there is no accuracy advantage to neck sizing without body sizing as well.

 

[rickp]

Re: Once fired Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Graham,Why, what the difference? Everyone is telling me to do the opposite. </div></div>Why? Because we want reliable functioning, we don't use minimum spec. chambers and we don't turn necks.

Case sizing means controlling three dimesions: case neck inside diameter; case neck outside diameter; and (case) headspace.

Benchrest shooters don't FL size every time because they fire form a few cases in a tight chamber and then just worry about subsequently sizing the necks to lightly hold the bullet. They don't need to FL size (although some do) because case expansion in a tight-neck BR chamber is almost nothing.

FL sizing can reduce the effects of case warp. And when using cases that are not prepped and not segregated, or maybe also fired in a different chamber, only neck sizing will probably make the cases worse (meaning more inconsistent).

Besides, in most cases there is no accuracy advantage to neck sizing without body sizing as well. </div></div>

Ok,
So let me ask you something. I just got some Redding dies and they suggested the Type S Match Neck die set. Do i need to return those and get the FL size set?

 

[Graham]

Re: Once fired Brass

You could, in addition, pick up a separate FL sizing die. They're not expensive. Did you want to use bushings? You could pick up a Type S FL sizing die and a few bushings. Or, you could get a body die (not a small base, just a regular one) and use that and the neck sizing die on a turret press... lots of options, really.

 

[rickp]

Re: Once fired Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could, in addition, pick up a separate FL sizing die. They're not expensive. Did you want to use bushings? You could pick up a Type S FL sizing die and a few bushings. Or, you could get a body die (not a small base, just a regular one) and use that and the neck sizing die on a turret press... lots of options, really.

What gets me the most consistency and accuracy?



</div></div>

 

[Graham]

Re: Once fired Brass

There are, as they say, many ways to skin a cat.

The main thing is that you are able to measure the results. But you absolutely do want to bump the shoulder, and get a tool and caliper so that you can measure the amount shoulder bump. That way you can bump as much or as little as you want, but either way you will know how much, and be able to control the dimesions.

 

[aloreman]

Re: Once fired Brass

i like the neck die then i use a redding body die when they start to become hard to eject or load

 

[rickp]

Re: Once fired Brass

That I already have, so I'm good to go there.

I though that having brass that was once fired out of ones gun was an advantage because it was formed to your chamber, is that not the case now?

 

[Graham]

Re: Once fired Brass

An advantage for what? Case capacity, maybe?

 

[rickp]

Re: Once fired Brass

That the brass is form fitted to your chamber, head space. its what I heard, certainly not something I can really speak about in an educated manner. For that I try and default to guys here that know a lot more about this than me.

 

[Graham]

Re: Once fired Brass

It forms to your chamber (and springs back a bit), so... You mean that then you don't have to size the body the first time maybe?

Headspace is (usually) controlled at the datum line.

 

[rickp]

Re: Once fired Brass

yes, that's was concept behind it from what I understood.

Never mind about head space.

Also, now with a formed brass, one can get chamber dimensions from the brass. From there one can just push the shoulders back .001 to .002" and you're done. If I remember right. That's what I wanted to find out here. Or if there's a better way for how we shoot.

R.

 

[Graham]

Re: Once fired Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never mind about head space.

Also, now with a formed brass, one can get chamber dimensions from the brass. From there one can just push the shoulders back .001 to .002" and you're done. If I remember right. That's what I wanted to find out here.</div></div>Headspace is critical. That's the dimension that separates safe ammo from dangerous ammo. The .308 headspaces in the chamber on the shoulder of the case at .400 inches. So, headpsace on a .308 is the length of the case from the case head to the first place that the brass case contacts the chamber at .400 inches - the shoulder.

If you want to push the shoulder back you will need a FL or body sizing die and a way to accurately measure how much set-back you are getting.

Depending on the chamber, after a firing or two you will have to bump the shoulder or the case won't go in the chamber any more without force. If you don't body size, and end up forcing your bolt closed on a live round, you will be using the bolt lugs as a press to resize the shoulder of your brass. That's a bad thing.

I sometimes use neck dies for prepping new brass, because unfired brass is undersized and I don't have to worry about shoulder contact with the chamber.

Bottom line: Because we have reliability requirements of our ammo, and we use 'standard' chambers (more or less), we are not using custom chamber dimesions to control the dimensions of the brass like Benchresters do and therefore we have to resize our brass to a greater degree.

 

[rickp]

Re: Once fired Brass

I have all the little tools to check head space and dimensions, so GTG there.
I guess I'll call redding today and get another die.

Again thanks for the info.

 

[targaflorio]

Re: Once fired Brass

Rick: I got the redding type s bushing neck sizer kit. Comes with a body die, and seater. I just started neck sizing the brass fire formed in my chamber and I believe it encourages concentricity and works brass less. Not to mention more control over neck tension that you don't get from fl sizing with factory dies. Accuracy comes from lots of small details in series. Up to you on how much free time you have to invest. My goal was to at least equal FGMM and I have been able to surpass that in two calibers. I am continuously looking for ways to tweak with lots of input from members here, and techs at Sierra, Grafs, Dillon, etc. So far all of my tweaks tend to show up in SD/ES and group size. To me, it is a lifelong journey and I'm sure I will never stop experimenting. Plus, I love buying cool tools.

Lastly, the redding body die in the kit allows you to perform the shoulder bump when you need it.

Take everyone's advice in the context of your own priorities Good luck!

 

[PeterN]

Re: Once fired Brass

I know many recommend full length sizing but I continue t neck size my 6BR and 6x47. I'm guessing the 30 degree shoulder on these cartridges helps