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One business I plan to avoid
- Thread starter Robert S
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making a choice and sticking to it is a noble thing and if in 3 days the price either tripled or that was it no more ever would you still feel the same about that decision ? but like the south during the civil war the cost of bread went up 300% your choices were pay the price or do without having never starved and really not wanting to find out what that's like even my broke ass screams Id pay . yea I would buy less and if you have other options that are cheaper why worry about what someone else is selling something for , just buy it at the cheaper place good luck .
Meh, so what. This is how capitalism works; are you some sort of commie who wants private business prices regulated? Businesses selling commodity goods exist to make a profit, end of story.
You're free to buy or not. If their price is higher than anyone's willing to pay, they'll know it because nobody will buy it. It's really that simple.
IMO any complaints beyond that are just whining "it's not fair" because you didn't get to buy what you wanted at the price you were used to. Tough luck, that's the market right now, and the market dictates what fair prices are, not you, and not some misguided idea that the gun community will "stick together in this".
You're free to buy or not. If their price is higher than anyone's willing to pay, they'll know it because nobody will buy it. It's really that simple.
IMO any complaints beyond that are just whining "it's not fair" because you didn't get to buy what you wanted at the price you were used to. Tough luck, that's the market right now, and the market dictates what fair prices are, not you, and not some misguided idea that the gun community will "stick together in this".
Anyone else find it a funny thing to complain about given the user name 
I see the guy's point though when I look at outfits like Midway. They haven't gouged on the primers as evidenced by the recent prices that were charged. You always have the choice to pass with the gougers of course, and I do, but I also make note of who is doing the gouging and won't do business with them. Now or in the future................Also a part of Capitalism.
My guess is that those who are ok with the gouging, are themselves, engaging in the practice.
My guess is that those who are ok with the gouging, are themselves, engaging in the practice.
Or maybe we could simultaneously not condone the practice, but understand how fragile liberty is, recognizing that any intervention is contrary to the principles upon which this country was founded, whilst letting the long term memory of the purchasing public do the work in completing the capitalist cycle.
Supply and demand. Period.
"Gouging" is a term the "have nots" use to rationalize their unjust treatment of those that "have" in order to feel better about using reprehensible tactics to take something they did not earn.
The owner of an item, sets the price and conditions under which that item is sold. The buyer decides whether to participate OR NOT. It is not any more complicated than that, and efforts made to try and MAKE it complicated is just another mechanism of tyranny which so many weak minded people are captivated by without even realizing it. So if you don't like the price of something, you are free not to buy it.
Individual responsibility.
Individual liberty.
You are free to charge what you want for YOUR goods and services.
Others are free to purchase or NOT purchase.
If this is something that needs to be explained to you, then you likely will not understand anyway. For a community that constantly espouses personal accountability as it pertains to the 2nd Amendment, you'd think folks would have an appreciation for how freedom actually works. It seems that people want to change the demands based on whether it works in their favor or not, rather than adhering to any real code of behavior.
It's unsurprising to see every social space littered with comments such as found in this thread, but it doesn't make it less disturbing.
Would you like price controls, tovarisch?
Whiny ass retailers are currently yelling at manufacturers to not raise their prices (and most haven’t) yet turning around and selling at 5x the profit under the guise of capitalism. Same goes for private profiteers that can’t believe a retailer would charge $299 for 1000 primers, as if that’s somehow *their* right to buy at msrp and sell for profit. There’s a lot of fake woke folks out there living that capitalist life, but in reality are fighting over crumbs.
They just gouged on 6.5 Grendel ammo last week... I paid $33.99 a box for Hornady Black, when it used to cost $20.99 a box. So, yeah, they’re starting to gouge on popular things. I was not happy, but wanted the ammo.
There’s capitalism, which I’m all-for, but then there is intentionally gouging because you can... $300 for a brick of primers is intentionally f***ing people. Granted, if you buy it, it’s on you, but you’ll feel pretty stupid once this madness settles back to normal.
I saw a 500 bulk pack of .22LR ammo in stock, and was going to buy, but then the page opened up, and I knew immediately why it was still in stock... They wanted $190 for it!!! No wonder this guy still has .22 ammo in stock...Look at his prices!
22 Ammo Ships Free from AmmoMan.com
AmmoMan.com Offers 22 lr Ammo with Fast, Free Shipping - Guaranteed!
www.ammoman.com
But you fucking KNOW how much Midway paid for that box of Grendel you just bought.
Right?
You people don't know shit.
Will be interesting to see all the people surprised when small shops and online stores go out of business.
When they used to get X number of primers sell at $0.04/per and now they get half that number because of supply demand issues. They do the “right” thing and keep selling them at $0.04/per. Same with powder and other such things.
When they used to get X number of primers sell at $0.04/per and now they get half that number because of supply demand issues. They do the “right” thing and keep selling them at $0.04/per. Same with powder and other such things.
look at it this way.....if they sold them for their "standard" price.....they would be out of stock....guaranteed....and youd be here bitching about how no one has anything available.
at least this way you have the ability to buy it....if at an inflated price....
this is the benefit of a free economy.....you dont HAVE to buy anything.....make them yourself if you dont want to pay the inflated prices and see if you save money.
at least this way you have the ability to buy it....if at an inflated price....
this is the benefit of a free economy.....you dont HAVE to buy anything.....make them yourself if you dont want to pay the inflated prices and see if you save money.
Robbery, really? Nobody’s forcing anyone to buy anything. It’s a commodity item; if you don’t like the price don’t buy it.
And the “force of law”? What? The lack of law forcing set prices on people is a freedom we currently enjoy and want to keep. People like you asking for law to restrict prices from rising are asking for socialism. If that happened, the primers would simply be gone, completely unavailable to you anyway.
Friggin Bernie voters. Think about this stuff before getting outraged.
We should make a list of scumbag businesses shamelessly ripping us off as a community so post this they can kiss our collective asses.
Ragnar would have stolen the primers.Anyone else find it a funny thing to complain about given the user name
I don’t recall posting I was in favor of price controls nor did I make any reference to gouging or any other such thing. I merely pointed out I wouldn’t buy those primers. I also let a community know they were available. I think I followed Ayn’s logic pretty well.
Stretches/failures of logic are present here. Just look for people spending their time attacking a post for ideas and words that were never written.
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Which is why I've never purchased any of your products........Too rich for my blood as I can accomplish the same tasks at a lower price. Not a criticism of your products, I'm sure they serve their purpose for those that want to pay those prices.
For some there is the perceived prestige of paying more for a product or service that at the time is seen as superior or fashionable.
Still, this is one of those nebulous subjects that will forever be debated. If a small mom and pop goes out of business due the the likes of Midway USA under cutting them on price, well too bad, that's life and a part of capitalism also.
I don't want to be the one calling the winners and losers as you imply with your comments. Just the same as if some one comes up with a better primer seater than your's at a cheaper price. Guess what, I'll buy it from him. That's the beauty of capitalism. Someone always comes up with a better mouse trap.
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Yeah, it really sucks......to own a small business and have a family to feed and bills to pay. And the only way to do it is to raise prices on the only thing you have on the shelf today.
Thats BS. Your post follows a long line of similar posts in the last few months. The ensuing conversation is exactly as one would expect. You weren't letting folks know where they could get primers, you were showing your displeasure with the business. This is evident by the for and against responses. Perfectly OK to voice an opinion, but stand up straight and own it. Your deflection makes you look like a pussy.
It happened to one of my father's businesses. Mom and pop grocery/liquor store that could no longer compete with the likes of walgreens and walmart. Had to close up shop and then used the building for rentals. Been there and done that.
Hi,
Please do share your experience with this...
How do you know what manufacturers are charging? I know exactly what several of the largest ammunition manufacturers in the world have increased just in the past couple weeks.
Also....most of those whiny ass retailers CANNOT purchase from the manufacturers to begin with.....they purchase from distributors. So hard for them to be yelling at manufacturers about anything.
Sincerely,
Theis
I didn't see OP saying we should have price controls... he said he's not going to do business with them.
I've done similar... when I've disagreed with a business's method/motives/ethics.
Just like it's a free market with supply/demand and the sellers can charge more for high demand and short supply. My money is short supply and I choose to spend it where I want. I am almost always willing to spend more for an item if I believe I'm getting better service or supporting someone that I think is aligned with me.
I've done similar... when I've disagreed with a business's method/motives/ethics.
Just like it's a free market with supply/demand and the sellers can charge more for high demand and short supply. My money is short supply and I choose to spend it where I want. I am almost always willing to spend more for an item if I believe I'm getting better service or supporting someone that I think is aligned with me.
Insert sarcasm. aka joke
.I have enough to last my lifetime and maybe your even if you only shot 15k rounds last year.
I wasnt mad nor did i get outraged. Last line in my post was from Ragnar Danneskjold's Speech to Hank Rearden. Look it up it was makin a funny based on op name that went over your head .
Oh and i dont need any ammo or primers i bought when Jerry said we should.
No deflection. I won’t buy from them. Doesn’t mean others won’t. For those that happen to need primers, the opportunity was provided in the original post. Call it what you want.
I used to manufacture ammunition, even went direct to some manufacturers for components. I still have plenty of contacts in the industry and still get price sheets from some manufacturers & reps. Yes, pricing goes up. It almost always goes up. Price sheets are out for 2021, I’m not an idiot, and I know they went up. Same as they did in 2020 lol.
But there’s a difference between capitalism and predatory greed. I can promise you the 200-1000% price increases retailers and/or “capitalists” are charging is not because their costs went up.
By what metric do you define "the same tasks?" I just finished priming about 280 pieces of 6 dasher on a live stream in about 20 minutes, and that was a pretty relaxed and comfortable speed. ES was 1.5-2 thousandths, and the SD is around .0005. (5 ten thousandths) This is on non-uniformed pockets on their 6th firing. I'm not tired, and my hand isn't sore, nor is any other part of me. So if you can accomplish the "same thing" for a lesser cost than the CPS, I would very much like to see that quantifiable proof. Is it possible that you only "think" the same thing can be done for less, but don't really know for sure because you haven't tried to do those things? Do you know the benefit which you can have in ES as well as accuracy/precision by performing a primer seating depth test? If I could demonstrate it to you in person, on target, would you accept that evidence?
Speaking here to just one of our products... but I think it holds true for many of our products.
Though the rest of your post I very much agree with. You can choose to not buy anything we sell. You can make those decisions on any basis you want, rational or not, factual or not. It's your choice. It's not for me to decide for you. Regarding the products we sell... the market has spoken, loudly. We are buried under orders. What a blessing it has been. A great many people feel our products are worth the price. When asked later, many of them say they'd happily pay more than we ask, now that they have the benefit of the experience of owning them. I count that as a success. Though I certainly don't begrudge you for making your own choices. I applaud you for it. Though I think you should be careful of trying to justify purchasing decisions with statements that do not track with the reality of ownership of those more expensive items. A more truthful statement would be along the lines of "I can accomplish all I want to accomplish with lesser equipment." I could easily support your stance, were it closer to that. Yet you're free to come in here and make claims against our company and our products. Though it doesn't mean your accounts are factual. They are simply your opinions from your perspective. I respect and embrace that, but since you've done it in a public space... I feel obligated to provide a different perspective from a position of experience. If you find yourself asking things of your current priming system that it can not answer, I hope you'll re-evaluate the position the CPS occupies. I thank you for your perspective.
The claim of "being able to do the same thing for less money," is thrown around quite frequently... and certainly isn't proven very often. Most often it's only true for those that aren't asking any questions the more expensive stuff was made specifically to answer.
I'm glad you're so smart. Please, tell us all what we don't know... Go ahead, I'll wait... (Insert Jeopardy music...)
I know more than you think I do... I used to work in a gun store, I know what markup is. Yes, I'm aware how much they probably paid for that box that used to sell for $20.99...Probably $10-12 from the typical volume of ammo they move, if I had to SWAG it. Ammo typically has about a 30-50% markup (or at least, it used to). But these times being what they are, it was probably slightly elevated (might not have been) than what they typically do, maybe a couple bucks more, probably around $15 a box, but jacked up the price an EXTRA $14 over the normal selling price, just to make even more profit. But that's wholesale vs. MSRP. They probably operate off of MAP pricing. Some companies will even PULL their line from the store if you get caught selling below a certain price point, or put it on sale (to move product) without their permission... Even some firearms manufacturers...
I agree completely... Pay at your own risk. Free economy... But at the same time, it's fucking everyone, because prices are skyrocketing, because of all these goddamn people who didn't stock up or buy guns after Obama tried it the first time, and things finally settled back down. They should have been stocking up during the Trump years...When everything was readily available. Walk in the store, buy a case of LC 5.56 for $390, walk out. $1,000 for a case of LC 5.56 is stupid. You should have already have a couple-thousand rounds stocked up that you didn't touch for your emergency reserves. Those who didn't, are the ones bitching. I'm not bitching about availability, even though if everyone would stop panic-buying everything, it would get back to semi-nomal MAYBE by the end of the 2021... The problem is the people who didn't prepare and are bitching. They have no one to blame but themselves. I'm just bitching about the price inflation, because if people stopped hoarding up everything, availability would become normal again, and so prices would drop back to normal from excess stock in stores. Supply & demand 101.
They have probably sold damn-near every single round of ammo on their shelves and in their storage reserves... Imagine how much capital these businesses have made over the last 5 months... They have probably increased sales by several hundred percent over normal. They made their money, whether they make it last the tough times, is on them. Small business owners scraping-by are now probably multi-millionaires just from ammo and gun sales, because they have NEVER sold this much ammo in their entire business history, other than when Obama tried it in 2013, but even then you could still find most things, just not .22LR and 5.56.
I come from a small business family, I know how it works. Just like with our personal ammo supplies... When times are good, keep putting more away for when times are bad... Then you don't have to sweat so much.
Actually their costs did go up. Less products on the shelves to buy = costs burdened by products in stock. The products available for sale 100% support the costs of doing business. You either add more product to the shelf or increase the price of the product you have. There's no other way to cover costs in retail sales. Since most of these business are 99% in the "gun" business, means they have less product to purchase wholesale in general. What product is available = higher prices since there's less to sell.
Don't know how many times or different ways it needs to be explained, but if you haven't gotten it by now...
NOBODY likes higher prices but I want these business', all of them, to survive and remain in business because in the end the consumer wins with the lowest prices available. We're just on the low supply side of the swing.
One near me closed because he couldn't get anything to sell
100% agree with that logic. I’m not buying at those prices, but I agree with it. The gun industry is crazier than the stock market. And for that it’s tough for me to do anything with it outside of being on the consumer side lol.
Thanks for not telling us anything with that gigantic brain of your's... I figured you were completely full of shit, and it was confirmed by your high post count in just a 4 year span shows just how much jawing and bullshitting you actually do, versus actual posting productive things and helping folks.
I didn't work in a big box store...Those people don't know shit about shit. I have dealt with actual pricing and markup. The fact you laughed instead of responding shows you're a keyboard commando with no real world experience, and have nothing productive to input. So from this point on, I'll just avoid and disregard anything you have to say on any subject matter. I've also ran an entire ammo plant for a machine gun range from sorting & processing, to loading, automated presses, maintenance, setup, Q&A, etc... You done that? Yeah, I didn't think so... Still think I'm not qualified? Whatever...
I actually agree completely.
Just because I have a low post count on THIS forum doesn't mean I have any less or more experience than someone else. But it's very often used as an indicator of judgement.I'm done and over it...He's on my ignore list. It would best behoove him to do the same to me, that way we avoid future conflicts.
D
Deleted member 113831
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How many did you have before you got banned from LRH?I actually agree completely.
Same here, gunshop and shooting range. Might make it back, but who knows. One of my favorite shops is struggling to get product to sell. Can’t see how they can stay around much longer. Problem is, these are the folks we depend on when we need something really scarce or unusual.
Is this actually another gouging thread
HOLY SHIT you guys need something better to do
...I have an idea stop bitching on the hide along with making multiple threads about the same topic...and work harder, smarter,more hours so you make more money.
If you had more cash in the checking account you wouldn’t even look at the price.
HOLY SHIT you guys need something better to do
...I have an idea stop bitching on the hide along with making multiple threads about the same topic...and work harder, smarter,more hours so you make more money.
If you had more cash in the checking account you wouldn’t even look at the price.
How is that relevant, if what I'm talking about is factual, and not opinion-based?How many did you have before you got banned from LRH?
D
Deleted member 113831
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Just jabbing you a bit. Len is a cunt.
I wasn't really surprised when Len banned me, other then amount of help and productive posts I brought to the forum. I was honestly more surprised when Jeff banned me from LRO for making fun of yet ANOTHER "new" Hornady cartridge (6 ARC). I guess they had recently become a sponsor for LRO (unbeknownst to me), so corporate greed exceeded free speech. I never got a reason from Len, but I'm guessing probably the same story.Oh, and this was my last count on LRH... But it took me 12 years to achieve this many posts...Got banned in 2020.
"Gouging" is a term the "have nots" use to rationalize their unjust treatment of those that "have" in order to feel better about using reprehensible tactics to take something they did not earn.
Maybe it's just part of your business model to increase sales by arguing here on SH. Don't know, but if it increases your sales to try and get me to bend to your point of view that will be great........Go capitalism! But I won't bend.
I don't need you to tell me how I should word my statements. I'm perfectly comfortable with all that I have stated here. What next Dad? Correction of my grammar, punctuation, and spelling?
So far as your product(s) being superior to my method of seating primers , I couldn't say as I've not used your seater. I've tried the Dillon and RCBS auto primers and I wasn't impressed at all. So yes, I do use the cheapo Lee hand version and for well over twenty years. Now the wife and I may be young squirts, all wet behind the ears when it comes to reloading center fire rifle cartridges, but I'm not in a rush to see how fast I can prime brass. The last thing I want to have happen is one of us being harmed due to setting a speed record in mass producing ammo.
We'll never be in competitions, so our shooting steel at 600 -1000 yards is fine for us. Don't worry about es, sd when using the chronograph, as long as the pressures, velocities, and sub MOA groupings are good on paper. Watching the wife have fun is what it is all about for me.
In summarizing this entire gouging thing, there isn't one of you that can tell the audience where gouging starts and where it ends, especially with regard to capitalism. I'll take my old fashioned approach and use my God given common sense to guide me in this regard. If $0.30/primer is OK, then why not $0.40, $0.50?
Those paying that lack common sense IMHO, and there is a lot of that lack going around these day.
If you want to tie it into capitalism good luck. Capitalism is quickly becoming extinct, sadly as it has been the greatest liberator for mankind ever invented. Today the politicians determine who the winners and losers are in a so called capitalistic society rotted by the welfare, regulation, and entitlement. So for all the mom and pop shops enjoy it while you can. Many restaurants sure can't anymore.
HUMMM! You seem to be taking this personally by harping on my use of the term "gouging." I really don't care whether you or others like it or not. My opinion, and I'm not gonna puss out.........I own the word GOUGE for purposes of this discussion. The O.P. NEVER used the word and all he did was expose a gouger (glad he did).
Maybe it's just part of your business model to increase sales by arguing here on SH. Don't know, but if it increases your sales to try and get me to bend to your point of view that will be great........Go capitalism! But I won't bend.
I don't need you to tell me how I should word my statements. I'm perfectly comfortable with all that I have stated here. What next Dad? Correction of my grammar, punctuation, and spelling?
So far as your product(s) being superior to my method of seating primers , I couldn't say as I've not used your seater. I've tried the Dillon and RCBS auto primers and I wasn't impressed at all. So yes, I do use the cheapo Lee hand version and for well over twenty years. Now the wife and I may be young squirts, all wet behind the ears when it comes to reloading center fire rifle cartridges, but I'm not in a rush to see how fast I can prime brass. The last thing I want to have happen is one of us being harmed due to setting a speed record in mass producing ammo.
We'll never be in competitions, so our shooting steel at 600 -1000 yards is fine for us. Don't worry about es, sd when using the chronograph, as long as the pressures, velocities, and sub MOA groupings are good on paper. Watching the wife have fun is what it is all about for me.
In summarizing this entire gouging thing, there isn't one of you that can tell the audience where gouging starts and where it ends, especially with regard to capitalism. I'll take my old fashioned approach and use my God given common sense to guide me in this regard. If $0.30/primer is OK, then why not $0.40, $0.50?
Those paying that lack common sense IMHO, and there is a lot of that lack going around these day.
If you want to tie it into capitalism good luck. Capitalism is quickly becoming extinct, sadly as it has been the greatest liberator for mankind ever invented. Today the politicians determine who the winners and losers are in a so called capitalistic society rotted by the welfare, regulation, and entitlement. So for all the mom and pop shops enjoy it while you can. Many restaurants sure can't anymore.
Amen Brutha.
I walked into my LGS yesterday, and they had a 1,000 box of LR Magnum Primers (Federal) for $80. Only one. Did I argue or haggle or whine that they used to be half as much? HELL NO !!! I tackled that damn box and almost dislocated a finger pulling money out of my wallet.
My problem is I just bought a new caliber (to me) in October. So trying to find reloading stuff for this new caliber caught me flat-footed. I have enough for the calibers I'd been loading for the last 20 years, but nothing for this one. So it's been a real bugger stocking up. I won't pay highly inflated prices for stuff I know will come down in a year; it's not an emergency for me. But it is frustrating to get into a new facet of a favorite hobby and not be able to support it with components I have to buy off the shelf. Grr. /rant
That said, I just found good quants of powder, was able to secure Peterson and Lapua brass and it's not impossible to find bullets. Just those dang primers. I hesitate to make my own as I've never stepped into that realm of reloading. But I'm seriously considering it.
That said, I just found good quants of powder, was able to secure Peterson and Lapua brass and it's not impossible to find bullets. Just those dang primers. I hesitate to make my own as I've never stepped into that realm of reloading. But I'm seriously considering it.
I'm a bit didactic that way (I blame my mother) but honestly I think your grammar and spelling are fine. Thought you'd like to know
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