"Literally scream". Oh MY! I better get a vpn, now that I know you can hear me over the internet.
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One business I plan to avoid
- Thread starter Robert S
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Though I doubt Ayn Rand and Ragnar would take this approach, it's rather easy. Just hit the report button and they will remove this nasty episode. Hate to see it go though, as it has been a trip.
Why don't you just post the price? I am sure it will be at or below the original price (which you are of course obligated to document to prove you're not a gouger). Now, being a smart guy, you'll probably have a smart response that includes a low price, or even better, since it has no use for you anymore, you'll just donate to those in need, but I am sure you take my point.
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I'd actually like to see you answer the question... How much profit is too much? When does gouging start? Be precise.
Please describe to me what an ethical price is, and the basis for your underlying ethical construct.
Ahhh, the old reverse-psychology attempt... I would say "bravo..." but that was the absolute saddest attempt yet. It would take a weak-minded individual to fall for your kindergarten-level trickery.
First off... There is no such person "in need" that owns a .257 Weatherby, unless they inherited it and can't afford to feed it, otherwise, prioritize your spending, because I don't feel sorry for anyone who buys a gun they can't afford to feed. And if was truly life-or-death and someone needed the ammo to kill animals to feed their family, I would have no problems giving it away.Secondly, your response is not only pedantic, but it's idiotic to boot. So, because I don't need it, I should give it someone else? You sound like a Democrat or a socialist... Socialism is the weaker version of communism. You sound jealous, and it's hilarious!
You think you're being slick like Freud, but you sound like Fudd... As for me "taking your point"... No... You have no point. I could give my "take-away" from your post, but you damn-sure wouldn't like it. So I'll just keep that to myself. 
I'm glad you can assume the price I would be asking...Since you have absolutely no idea what's in my mind, or what I was going to ask for it. But I wouldn't sell it to you for twice retail, even if I was going to GIVE it away to someone else.
And I know what you're going to say next... "See, you won't post a price...dur-hur-hur..." But now, I'm just not posting one "just because".
And my final response... PM FOR PRICE.
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WOW, I have to admit that your answer was even more entertaining than I thought it would be. Bravo...! So many inconsistencies... So much emotion... Pedantic? Well played... And my final response... Of course you wouldn't sell your ammo to me for "twice retail" - someone might accuse you of gouging.Ahhh, the old reverse-psychology attempt... I would say "bravo..." but that was the absolute saddest attempt yet. It would take a weak-minded individual to fall for your kindergarten-level trickery.
Secondly, your response is not only pedantic, but it's idiotic to boot. So, because I don't need it, I should give it someone else? You sound like a Democrat or a socialist... Socialism is the weaker version of communism. You sound jealous, and it's hilarious!
I'm glad you can assume the price I would be asking...Since you have absolutely no idea what's in my mind, or what I was going to ask for it. But I wouldn't sell it to you for twice retail, even if I was going to GIVE it away to someone else.
And I know what you're going to say next... "See, you won't post a price...dur-hur-hur..." Now I'm just not posting one just because.
And my final response... PM FOR PRICE.
No emotion, just having fun. Everyone takes my responses as emotional, I really could give a shit less. I just think it's fun trolling people like you on the internet.WOW, I have to admit that your answer was even more entertaining than I thought it would be. Bravo...! So many inconsistencies... So much emotion... Pedantic? Well played... And my final response... Of course you wouldn't sell your ammo to me for "twice retail" - someone might accuse you of gouging.
We have more in common than I thought...No emotion, just having fun. Everyone takes my responses as emotional, I really could give a shit less. I just think it's fun trolling people like you on the internet.
As I pointed out in the beginning, I look at what Larry is charging for primers (apples to apples) and use that as a guide along with common sense. If Larry charges $0.03/primer and I see another vendor selling at $0.30, that's gouging. I don't care whether you Nattering nabobs of negativism want to think so or not.
Primers come from the same distributors and unless material costs have risen at the manufacturers level, the distributor will wholesale to a vendor. Granted, the price may vary for the vendor depending on quantity purchased, but not to the tune of 10x and more.
If you're retarded enough to pay those higher prices, then you're just "special." I will not pay those prices ( my choice guided by common sense ) and for those that do, you're just driving the price up.
You fellows can keep on harping about the term gouging and saying it doesn't exist, even though it does. I really don't give a darn as this just serves as entertainment for me, since none of you can say were gouging starts or ends. That metric is individual choice plain and simple. Just like the example of pornography and the case that went before the s.c. You can't define it, but you know it when you see it. Botting primers on Midway and then selling for over 10x what you just paid is gouging.
Glad the OP has chosen not to end this. It's loads of fun seeing the reactions. With that, I'll leave you with this jewel:
They say that time heals all wounds, but for some of you, stupid is forever.
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Vote with your wallet... if you don't like the price, don't buy it.
Everyone charges as much as they can for their merchandise... As much as the market will bear. The whole purpose of running a business is to generate profit. And the profit has to be enough to make the endeavor worthwhile... Even if you provide the mower and the gas I won't spend 2 hours cutting your grass for $5.00
Lots of things factor into what I consider a "fair" price...
My local guy charges more than the place in Tulsa... But he knows that beyond a certain price point that it will be more economical for folks to drive to Tulsa. So he prices his stuff with that in mind.
I'll pay a little more for the convenience of a 2 mile drive... To a place where they know me by name... Treat my daughter like their own kid... And will order what I ask for (if it's obtainable).
It might not seem like it now but high prices and scarcity may be a good thing in the long run... It might motivate others to enter the market to fill the void... IF we can keep the @#$& government from mucking it up in the name of "fair" prices.
Mike
Everyone charges as much as they can for their merchandise... As much as the market will bear. The whole purpose of running a business is to generate profit. And the profit has to be enough to make the endeavor worthwhile... Even if you provide the mower and the gas I won't spend 2 hours cutting your grass for $5.00
Lots of things factor into what I consider a "fair" price...
My local guy charges more than the place in Tulsa... But he knows that beyond a certain price point that it will be more economical for folks to drive to Tulsa. So he prices his stuff with that in mind.
I'll pay a little more for the convenience of a 2 mile drive... To a place where they know me by name... Treat my daughter like their own kid... And will order what I ask for (if it's obtainable).
It might not seem like it now but high prices and scarcity may be a good thing in the long run... It might motivate others to enter the market to fill the void... IF we can keep the @#$& government from mucking it up in the name of "fair" prices.
Mike
No such thing as pure capitalism. No barriers to entry and perfect information.
Take for example, internet service providers that get exclusive access to run cable/fiber in a city. A government provided monopoly. Or, Verizon and AT&T agreeing NOT to compete with fiber any any service area so than can control the price without competition. Then charge significantly higher prices than any area that happens to have competition. You could argue internet-access isn't a necessity, but it's just an example that I still consider gouging.
Government regulations mostly are gross overreach, but at the same time, we don't have factories dumping toxic waste into lakes and rivers like they used to because of them. There is a place for some regulations.
Take for example, internet service providers that get exclusive access to run cable/fiber in a city. A government provided monopoly. Or, Verizon and AT&T agreeing NOT to compete with fiber any any service area so than can control the price without competition. Then charge significantly higher prices than any area that happens to have competition. You could argue internet-access isn't a necessity, but it's just an example that I still consider gouging.
Government regulations mostly are gross overreach, but at the same time, we don't have factories dumping toxic waste into lakes and rivers like they used to because of them. There is a place for some regulations.
Lol, you probably though it was bad when you where still there. It's only gotten worse. Lots of the people who helped the most have been banned, or don't engage as much for fear of being banned. So that leaves the morons to go around giving bad info without being checked on it for fear of being banned if a fight breaks out. Then there is the people who get banned or their threads deleted for saying something critical about some brand that happens to be a sponsor.WOW! Just wow......
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This is when you should be compiling your "goto" buy lists and your "never-ever" buy lists.
Since I've been staying somewhat on top of that, this shit hasn't really affected me beyond shit being out of stock and backordered. Ie, I have to wait longer but I'll be goddamned if I pay more.
Since I've been staying somewhat on top of that, this shit hasn't really affected me beyond shit being out of stock and backordered. Ie, I have to wait longer but I'll be goddamned if I pay more.
If you no like the price don’t buy it. Nobody is forcing you to buy this stuff.
Secondly, you should have prepared better.
Third, this is the free market. Supply and demand. Frankly, I think people who make an issue of stuff like this have a Democrat mentality. They always got to meddle in other peoples shit.
Secondly, you should have prepared better.
Third, this is the free market. Supply and demand. Frankly, I think people who make an issue of stuff like this have a Democrat mentality. They always got to meddle in other peoples shit.
Do they want new blood that they can influence, so they're shedding all the old members who were actually knowledgeable and helpful? Sure seems like it... Sad. I'm kind of glad that I'm not around to see that happen. That's what happens when you let Fudds behind the wheel.
There do appear to be real gripe about the revealing of the high price of stuff by some vendors on these forums. Just don't see why people get all freaked out about showing examples. Viewing different sections of the forums and reading comments, some vendors and mods get bent out of shape about gouging and seem to have no problem with it other than it being it was posted. Like it's just great to charge a lot more and take advantage. If they don't want to read the post, move on. Don't piss on somebody cause you think they shouldn't be heard. Aint there enough of that going on in the country now?
If this is the message you got (see your quote in bold above)out those posts, you’re misunderstanding in a huge way. That is absolutely not what was being expressed.
OK Spiro, you didn't actually answer the questions...
But, to sum up, its gouging if you say it is... Got it.
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Doesn’t that say it all. We all think we know, and it is an individual choice. Best comment on the passing scene.
Wow, what a brilliant argument. So it's not gouging if you say so.................Daah! And around and around we go. Maybe crayola illustrations would help you understand.OK Spiro, you didn't actually answer the questions...
C’mon man, you’re better than resorting to childish ad hominems. My point is that you can’t define it because we have pesky freedoms related to markets and private property, not to mention the basic exercise of free will. I don’t have an obligation to define it because I don’t believe it exists.
Prove me wrong. Define for me this “ethical” pricing you claim to want. Also please include the fundamental ethical construct you base your worldview on.
Every day I look at my email alerts from companies advertising a sale on ammo or primers . When you go to items that are fairly priced they are out of stock or can be placed on back order. Backordered items then will have the new current ten times normal retail cost when they are shipped.
How many stooges are falling for this crap.
How many stooges are falling for this crap.
"C'mon man." OK now I know where you'r coming from Joe. Made my points and illustrated it using recent examples of Midway USA, so now prove me wrong.................Ya can't and ya know it.
You just keep going round and round with me and that makes you special to me and your friends ( We are friends aren't we? I'd hate to think of spending this time with someone that isn't a pal ). So as a special educated kind of guy let me break it down for you. Just because you believe something doesn't exist doesn't make it fact. Maybe us pals are sort of going to the old proving a negative argument logic. What say pal? I think this is where your whole argument falls apart. Feel free to educate me. I like blue crayola btw.
...and just because you believe something does exist doesn’t mean it does...
I’m bored now.
Me too pal. Time for you to go take a cookie and a nap I imagine, but it's been fun.
You need a lesson in capitalism too?
If a retail is getting very low stock & Shipments, How do they price themselves so they can stay open?
Business is all about cash flow.
Anyone else who never run a business in their life want to tell everyone else what they should do?
You're special:
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That rich coming from someone who does not understand basic economics. The people on that bus probally understand it better than you.
As soon as you can provide remotely coherent answers to any of the quite basic questions I’ve posed, I’ll be happy to listen.
Cookies do sound good...
Yea go tell that to the tens of millions of consumers. I am sure they will sacrifice their purchasing habits to benefit little old MHeimer.
You know if people Stop Buying Stocks, the Price will drop
You know if people Stop Buying Trucks, The Price will drop.
You know if people stop Buying Ribeye Steaks, the Price will drop.
You know if people Stop Buying Houses, The Price will drop.
You know if people stop buying Viagra, The Price will drop.
You know if people stop buying Gold, the Price will drop.
You know if people stop buying Bottled Water, The Price will drop.
Guys stop buying super rare, high demand Burbons too. I have the right to $20 Rip Van Winkles..........
When in reality its self loathing that they failed to prepare and make wise decisions when they could. They made shitty life choices but want everyone else to bail them out.
What happens when the consumer decides it's gouging and say screw it? They do without or go elsewhere in many cases. If you don't have the inventory in the first place or do with scalper prices, odds are that cash flow isn't there. You'll go under and if somehow you do survive, people aren't going to forget.
People who fall on the left side of this chart:
Whats the name of the business you run/own? Asking for a friend.
I really want to thank all of you guys that have had really great discussions with me. It's been great and now I got promoted to Sergeant of the Hide.As soon as you can provide remotely coherent answers to any of the quite basic questions I’ve posed, I’ll be happy to listen.
Cookies do sound good...
Does this now mean that I can sell things here on the Hide at scalper/gouger rates?
Tongue and cheek humor...............Just couldn't help myself.
You've literally just explained the free market we've been trying to beat into your head and you didn't even realize it.
But that’s a choice the business man makes. That’s his business. It’s not your business.
Your business is to choose to patronize him it not. You come across as a social justice warrior trying to organize consumers against a business that you don’t like.
Again, if you don’t like the price or can’t afford it, don’t buy it. No one is forcing you to buy it.
Hey now, he was morally outraged, which trumps facts. Ask any democrat.You've literally just explained the free market we've been trying to beat into your head and you didn't even realize it.
People are wanting to know where the line is with price gouging vs. free-market capitalism...
Personally, for me, the line is between individuals selling their personal property vs. a licensed business reselling items for profit, as their business model. If an individual advertises their private property for sale at rediculous prices, nobody will buy it...And if someone does, more power to them. But if a business that's entire purpose is to buy and resale items to make profit, starts doing it, knowing they only paid $X.XX for it, but can sell it for $XXX.XX right now because people are panic-buying... That is price gouging.
Yes, it's still part of free-market capitalism, and they are free to do it if they want, but it's also a long-run kamikaze business model because...It can backfire just as quickly as it might have SEEMED like a good idea, and can spell business suicide once things get back to normal, and you're stuck with a shit-tonne of product you can't move because folks think you're greedy immoral jackasses and don't want to patron your store because you tried to f*** everybody when you thought you could get away with it.
So where is this invisible line? It's individual for everyone. If you've got a crapload of money, and paying $300 for a $40 brick of primers...Go for it. Do your thing! But don't make fun of people who can't or refuse to pay that ridiculous cost, simply because it's unethical to charge a 7.5x markup for it.
Put it this way, would you pay $11,250 for a $1,500 rifle right now? That's the same equivalent of paying $300 for a $40 brick of primers. But because it's only $300 people aren't looking at the big picture... You have to put it into perspective sometimes...
Plain and simple...
Personally, for me, the line is between individuals selling their personal property vs. a licensed business reselling items for profit, as their business model. If an individual advertises their private property for sale at rediculous prices, nobody will buy it...And if someone does, more power to them. But if a business that's entire purpose is to buy and resale items to make profit, starts doing it, knowing they only paid $X.XX for it, but can sell it for $XXX.XX right now because people are panic-buying... That is price gouging.
Yes, it's still part of free-market capitalism, and they are free to do it if they want, but it's also a long-run kamikaze business model because...It can backfire just as quickly as it might have SEEMED like a good idea, and can spell business suicide once things get back to normal, and you're stuck with a shit-tonne of product you can't move because folks think you're greedy immoral jackasses and don't want to patron your store because you tried to f*** everybody when you thought you could get away with it.
So where is this invisible line? It's individual for everyone. If you've got a crapload of money, and paying $300 for a $40 brick of primers...Go for it. Do your thing! But don't make fun of people who can't or refuse to pay that ridiculous cost, simply because it's unethical to charge a 7.5x markup for it.
Put it this way, would you pay $11,250 for a $1,500 rifle right now? That's the same equivalent of paying $300 for a $40 brick of primers. But because it's only $300 people aren't looking at the big picture... You have to put it into perspective sometimes...
Plain and simple...
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The funny part is this is completely self evident, and has been explained roughly 100 times in this thread already.
Yes, but sadly, people are still defending the retail businesses knowingly and massively gouging prices... That's what's sad.
Now you're contradicting yourself. You lay out that the business should be able to do what they want, as can the consumer, but that its sad? Freedom on the part both parties to engage in free trade is not sad.
The people getting shit on in this thread are the people that think the retailer shouldn't have their freedom to engage in the transaction in the way they see fit. Nobody made the case that you shall pay the high prices as the consumer.
How am I contradicting myself, re-read my posts. They all say the exact same thing. I've said from the beginning it's their right to charge whatever they want, doesn't make it any more justifiable.
If everyone jacks up their prices, and you need ammo, then yes, you HAVE to pay the high prices as a consumer... So it's either die, and your family dies, or you go broke trying to buy ammo to feed/protect them. Granted, I am taking it all the way to the most extreme case scenario, but it's still the same principle. If everyone decided yesterday evening at midnight that car batteries are now worth $1,500, instead of $150, and your battery dies while you're at work, and you have to get towed or go buy a battery, and you can't find one for less that $1,500, and just yesterday the batteries were $150, but now they're $1,500...What do you do? You're f***ed. You pay $1,500 for a $150 battery, or you ride a bicycle to work in freezing weather and snow and nearly die everyday. That's what they're all trying to do with ammo prices right now.
Yes, it's sad that companies are trying to completely bend over the people they rely on to make money off of when there is NOT a shortage, and when things go back to normal, they will try to act as if nothing ever happened, and wonder why we don't want to play ball with them anymore...
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