One business I plan to avoid

[Yondering]

How am I contradicting myself, re-read my posts. They all say the exact same thing. I've said from the beginning it's their right to charge whatever they want, doesn't make it any more justifiable.

If everyone jacks up their prices, and you need ammo, then yes, you HAVE to pay the high prices as a consumer... So it's either die, and your family dies, or you go broke trying to buy ammo to feed/protect them. Granted, I am taking it all the way to the most extreme case scenario, but it's still the same principle. If everyone decided yesterday evening at midnight that car batteries are now worth $1,500, instead of $150, and your battery dies while you're at work, and you have to get towed or go buy a battery, and you can't find one for less that $1,500, and just yesterday the batteries were $150, but now they're $1,500...What do you do? You're f***ed. You pay $1,500 for a $150 battery, or you ride a bicycle to work in freezing weather and snow and nearly die everyday. That's what they're all trying to do with ammo prices right now.

Yes, it's sad that companies are trying to completely bend over the people they rely on to make money off of when there is NOT a shortage, and when things go back to normal, they will try to act as if nothing ever happened, and wonder why we don't want to play ball with them anymore...

No, you’re being a drama queen to make a point that doesn’t hold water. You don’t HAVE to buy ammo. If you don’t like the prices, don’t buy it. THAT is what’s plain and simple, but some of you can’t handle it.

Your definition of gouging isn’t plain and simple, it’s arbitrary and stupid. Now a person can try to make a profit but a business can’t? Or maybe only a certain amount of profit is fair? You’re just making up arbitrary garbage to defend your whining about high prices.

What’s sad here is how many of you would rather infringe on someone’s freedom in selling their own property so that you can buy it at a price you like. That’s petty and foolish and it goes against everything this country used to stand for. I don’t care if a business raises their prices, but I make it a point to remember who you people are.

 

[Supersubes]

@Yondering said it better than I could.

 

[FuhQ]

Yall are laughable... "Making a profit" is one thing, but outright f***ing consumers because you can, is a totally different thing.

We'll agree to disagree. My example of batteries and rifles is still relevant and holding water.

I'm NOT infringing on anything, the fact you have reading comprehension problems is not my fault. Blame your education. Re-rear my posts! I said they DO have the right to charge whatever they want for it, whether they should or not, depends on whether they like owning a business in 6 months to a year, from people boycotting them after the prices go back to normal.

Buy the ammo, or don't... Makes no difference to me. I'm stocked enough to last a few lifetimes. But that fact you defend people charging $300 for a $40 box of primers is beyond laughable. I'll defend their right to do it, but that doesn't mean I have to agree that they should.

 

[Supersubes]

Yall are laughable... "Making a profit" is one thing, but outright f***ing consumers because you can, is a totally different thing.

We'll agree to disagree. My example of batteries and rifles is still relevant and holding water.

I'm NOT infringing on anything, the fact you have reading comprehension problems is not my fault. Blame your education. Re-rear my posts! I said they DO have the right to charge whatever they want for it, whether they should or not, depends on whether they like owning a business in 6 months to a year, from people boycotting them after the prices go back to normal.

Buy the ammo, or don't... Makes no difference to me. I'm stocked enough to last a few lifetimes. But that fact you defend people charging $300 for a $40 box of primers is beyond laughable. I'll defend their right to do it, but that doesn't mean I have to agree that they should.

The point is that nobody is getting fucked. You and other consumers can walk away. Remember, your straw man idealized business has nothing to sell you right now. That was true when this thread was started, and is still true today.

You keep repeating the idea that consumers will punish the businesses after things settle down. This is correct, which is why nobody is disputing it.

 

[Threadcutter308]

 

[Threadcutter308]

 

[Yondering]

Yall are laughable... "Making a profit" is one thing, but outright f***ing consumers because you can, is a totally different thing.

We'll agree to disagree. My example of batteries and rifles is still relevant and holding water.

I'm NOT infringing on anything, the fact you have reading comprehension problems is not my fault. Blame your education. Re-rear my posts! I said they DO have the right to charge whatever they want for it, whether they should or not, depends on whether they like owning a business in 6 months to a year, from people boycotting them after the prices go back to normal.

Buy the ammo, or don't... Makes no difference to me. I'm stocked enough to last a few lifetimes. But that fact you defend people charging $300 for a $40 box of primers is beyond laughable. I'll defend their right to do it, but that doesn't mean I have to agree that they should.

You aren't thinking things through all the way. Nobody gets screwed one way or another, because nobody is forced to buy anything, regardless of the price. Your entire argument falls apart with that.

In fact if you take it a step further, the places charging high prices are essentially saving those primers for people who really need them. If the prices weren't high, they'd be all sold out with no primers available at all; now what happens to the guy who wants them bad enough to pay the prices? He doesn't get any.

 

[FuhQ]

You aren't thinking things through all the way. Nobody gets screwed one way or another, because nobody is forced to buy anything, regardless of the price. Your entire argument falls apart with that.

In fact if you take it a step further, the places charging high prices are essentially saving those primers for people who really need them. If the prices weren't high, they'd be all sold out with no primers available at all; now what happens to the guy who wants them bad enough to pay the prices? He doesn't get any.

Your argument falls apart just as quickly as you claim mine does... Jacking up the price that high is "saving them for the people who really need them"??? Who needs primers that bad, nobody is forcing you to buy primers either... I guess we should just raise the prices of those $1,500 rifles to $11,250 while we're at it... We'll save those for the people who "really need them", too...

That's almost like trusting the government to know what's best for us... Oh please Der Fuhrer! Save us from ourselves, for we know not how to live without your infinite wisdom! HAHAHAHA!!!!!!

 

[Yondering]

Your argument falls apart just as quickly as you claim mine does... Jacking up the price that high is "saving them for the people who really need them"??? Who needs primers that bad, nobody is forcing you to buy primers either... I guess we should just raise the prices of those $1,500 rifles to $11,250 while we're at it... We'll save those for the people who "really need them", too...

That's almost like trusting the government to know what's best for us... Oh please Der Fuhrer! Save us from ourselves, for we know not how to live without your infinite wisdom! HAHAHAHA!!!!!!

None of that makes any sense at all.

 

[FuhQ]

None of that makes any sense at all.

I repeated exactly what you just said... How does that not make any sense?

Yall obviously don't understand common sense, so I'm out... Enjoy paying $300 for a brick of primers "because capitalism". I sure won't be buying any for that price.

 

[Yondering]

I repeated exactly what you just said... How does that not make any sense?

You didn't apply any logic. Your thought process seems like a jumbled mess.

 

[FuhQ]

You didn't apply any logic. Your thought process seems like a jumbled mess.

I repeated what you stated, and applied EXACTLY that same logic you provided, in a different scenario. If that doesn't make sense, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[918v]

What is the purpose of your post? Do you want government regulation of prices?

 

[FuhQ]

No, I don't. Goddamn... Learn how to read and comprehend everything you just read before posting stupid questions and comments! Shit...

This is why I never used this forum in the past.

 

[Yondering]

No, I don't. Goddamn... Learn how to read and comprehend everything you just read before posting stupid questions and comments! Shit...

This is why I never used this forum in the past.

You're the one who's failing to comprehend.

Like your comment above about raising prices on rifles, thinking it disproves my point - raising prices is exactly what happens when supply is low and demand is high. Yes, of course rifle prices would go up in the same situation; most of us have seen it before. That doesn't disprove my point, quite the opposite. That's why none of what you said makes any sense; your logic is broken and you don't know what you really mean because your responses are emotional instead of logical.

Maybe you should quit whining about high prices and take some time to really think through some things instead of responding out of anger and frustration.

 

[Supersubes]

I repeated exactly what you just said... How does that not make any sense?

Yall obviously don't understand common sense, so I'm out... Enjoy paying $300 for a brick of primers "because capitalism". I sure won't be buying any for that price.

Its really strange how you continually miss the point. Which one of us is paying $300 for primers? Better yet, which one of us would enjoy paying that much? NOBODY! Some poor schmuck who planned poorly, or just entered the hobby, MAY pay that much if he or she chooses, and will do so begrudgingly. Nobody else has the primers to sell him or her to compete for the business. At such time when primers become widely available again, that competition will force the high priced guy to lower his prices. Just like magic. No govt intervention needed. Then you can go on punishing the vendor for raising his prices when he was the only game in town.

 

[FuhQ]

You're the one who's failing to comprehend.

Like your comment above about raising prices on rifles, thinking it disproves my point - raising prices is exactly what happens when supply is low and demand is high. Yes, of course rifle prices would go up in the same situation; most of us have seen it before. That doesn't disprove my point, quite the opposite. That's why none of what you said makes any sense; your logic is broken and you don't know what you really mean because your responses are emotional instead of logical.

Maybe you should quit whining about high prices and take some time to really think through some things instead of responding out of anger and frustration.

Its really strange how you continually miss the point. Which one of us is paying $300 for primers? Better yet, which one of us would enjoy paying that much? NOBODY! Some poor schmuck who planned poorly, or just entered the hobby, MAY pay that much if he or she chooses, and will do so begrudgingly. Nobody else has the primers to sell him or her to compete for the business. At such time when primers become widely available again, that competition will force the high priced guy to lower his prices. Just like magic. No govt intervention needed. Then you can go on punishing the vendor for raising his prices when he was the only game in town.

Why do you people keep thinking I want government intervention? I'm not the one who EVER said that... Someone else did. Not me.

Christ... Stop confusing me with other people and putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that.

HOWEVER, I DID say exactly what you just said, several days ago in this SAME thread, and several others, about how if people would stop paying the ridiculous prices, and people would stop panic-hoarding, things would go back to normal. But everyone overlooks that to try to prove some bullshit point that they're right, and I'm wrong.

I'm done...

 

[Holliday]

Consumer dissatisfaction, boycotts, expressing dissatisfaction, morality et al, are market based forces. Free market capitalizism is not one sided. Folks need to pull their head out of their asses.

 

[mkollman74]

Your argument falls apart just as quickly as you claim mine does... Jacking up the price that high is "saving them for the people who really need them"??? Who needs primers that bad, nobody is forcing you to buy primers either... I guess we should just raise the prices of those $1,500 rifles to $11,250 while we're at it... We'll save those for the people who "really need them", too...

That's almost like trusting the government to know what's best for us... Oh please Der Fuhrer! Save us from ourselves, for we know not how to live without your infinite wisdom! HAHAHAHA!!!!!!

You seem to be forgetting that market forces influence prices both ways. If nobody is buying at the seller's price, he'll have to choose if he can bear the carrying costs of his inventory. If he can't, then he'll need to lower prices. I think a number of us would agree with your point about folks remembering companies who they feel didn't treat them well. Where we diverge in thought is when words like "ethical" are included in the same sentence as pricing. You've given a rifle analogy. I have one for you as well. How much is a HK PSG1 in mint condition worth?

 

[DannC]

I have a PSA Freedom AR that I put together from the cheapest parts kits they had available [my very first.] unfired. I will consider offers starting above $5,000.00 cash delivered by USPS. All disclaimers for safety of use and function apply. After receipt of funds I will contact your for FFL shipping info. This want last long so I encourage you to make offers considerably above $5,000.00. Thank you.

 

[918v]

Your argument falls apart just as quickly as you claim mine does... Jacking up the price that high is "saving them for the people who really need them"??? Who needs primers that bad, nobody is forcing you to buy primers either... I guess we should just raise the prices of those $1,500 rifles to $11,250 while we're at it... We'll save those for the people who "really need them", too...

That's almost like trusting the government to know what's best for us... Oh please Der Fuhrer! Save us from ourselves, for we know not how to live without your infinite wisdom! HAHAHAHA!!!!!!

You make no sense.

 

[918v]

Why do you people keep thinking I want government intervention? I'm not the one who EVER said that... Someone else did. Not me.

Christ... Stop confusing me with other people and putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that.

HOWEVER, I DID say exactly what you just said, several days ago in this SAME thread, and several others, about how if people would stop paying the ridiculous prices, and people would stop panic-hoarding, things would go back to normal. But everyone overlooks that to try to prove some bullshit point that they're right, and I'm wrong.

I'm done...

We think you’re pushing for govt intervention because nobody is bitching about this as hard as you.

 

[RonA]

Sounds like a good investment opportunity might be to set up a company that buys all ammo and
reloading components produced in the US direct from the manufacturers, then charge what people are paying now(or more), and make even more money. Sounds like the same game plan I've been seeing for years in the U.S. I wonder if the folks that raped Remington are looking at this.

 

[FuhQ]

We think you’re pushing for govt intervention because nobody is bitching about this as hard as you.

No, I'm only defending myself and my personal opinion, which yall are arguing with and telling me I'm wrong.

I don't want government intervention in ANYTHING...Especially my life. You just don't understand. I'm the total opposite of what you are trying to make me out to be.

 

[918v]

No, I'm only defending myself and my personal opinion, which yall are arguing with and telling me I'm wrong.

I don't want government intervention in ANYTHING...Especially my life. You just don't understand. I'm the total opposite of what you are trying to make me out to be.

Then why are you pontificating about price gouging in a technical reloading forum? We know that prices are outrageous. We know.

 

[orkan]

No, I'm only defending myself and my personal opinion, which yall are arguing with and telling me I'm wrong.

I don't want government intervention in ANYTHING...Especially my life. You just don't understand. I'm the total opposite of what you are trying to make me out to be.

Then perhaps you should evaluate how you are speaking. If you were more skilled at illustrating your points, people would be less likely to get the wrong idea. After reading all your posts, no reasonable person could even understand what you're arguing about at this point. You flip back and forth so much, admonishing things, and then two posts later claiming to support that thing... one is left to wonder if you even know what you believe.

You can't claim to not care what people think, and then spend the kind of effort you have trying to convince people. Unless you're a troll. So if you're not a troll, and you have something to say... you should at least have some kind of mechanism to be certain what you're saying actually lines up with what you believe.

All these threads are is people complaining about price of components and acting like its an outrage and super complicated... when actually its the most simple supply and demand issue imaginable. There's no wizard behind the curtain. There's no conspiracy. There's just something tons of people want that isn't available in the quantities they all want.

That is the very definition of what makes something valuable. Diamonds. Gold. Silver. Things with a perceived finite supply that demand ridiculous prices... yet people still pay it. Reading your posts gives me the impression that you are the kind of person that's filled with envy, anger, and jealousy toward those that have things you desire. This too, is amazingly simple and uncomplicated. It's wrong... but it's simple to understand.

If that's not how you actually are... then I suggest you take stock of yourself. Stand upright. Learn to communicate how you actually are. We'll all be better off for your efforts.

 

[FuhQ]

Then why are you pontificating about price gouging in a technical reloading forum? We know that prices are outrageous. We know.

Just merely expressing my opines of how it's ridiculous, just like the rest of you. But all of a sudden, I'm the bad guy...

 

[FuhQ]

Then perhaps you should evaluate how you are speaking. If you were more skilled at illustrating your points, people would be less likely to get the wrong idea. After reading all your posts, no reasonable person could even understand what you're arguing about at this point. You flip back and forth so much, admonishing things, and then two posts later claiming to support that thing... one is left to wonder if you even know what you believe.

You can't claim to not care what people think, and then spend the kind of effort you have trying to convince people. Unless you're a troll. So if you're not a troll, and you have something to say... you should at least have some kind of mechanism to be certain what you're saying actually lines up with what you believe.

All these threads are is people complaining about price of components and acting like its an outrage and super complicated... when actually its the most simple supply and demand issue imaginable. There's no wizard behind the curtain. There's no conspiracy. There's just something tons of people want that isn't available in the quantities they all want.

That is the very definition of what makes something valuable. Diamonds. Gold. Silver. Things with a perceived finite supply that demand ridiculous prices... yet people still pay it. Reading your posts gives me the impression that you are the kind of person that's filled with envy, anger, and jealousy toward those that have things you desire. This too, is amazingly simple and uncomplicated. It's wrong... but it's simple to understand.

If that's not how you actually are... then I suggest you take stock of yourself. Stand upright. Learn to communicate how you actually are. We'll all be better off for your efforts.

I'll make a deal with you... I won't post what I had originally typed-out, and you just hit the ignore button on me, and I'll hit the ignore button on you, and we'll just avoid each other, and things will be much better off. Trust me, we're never going to get along...It would be beneficial to everyone. The same goes for anyone who doesn't like my comments, posts, and opinions...PLEASE hit the ignore button, it will save you a lot of headache down the road. It doesn't tell me if you ignore me, so it doesn't hurt my feelings one way or the other.

 

[Yondering]

I'll make a deal with you... I won't post what I had originally typed-out, and you just hit the ignore button on me, and I'll hit the ignore button on you, and we'll just avoid each other, and things will be much better off. Trust me, we're never going to get along...It would be beneficial to everyone. The same goes for anyone who doesn't like my comments, posts, and opinions...PLEASE hit the ignore button, it will save you a lot of headache down the road. It doesn't tell me if you ignore me, so it doesn't hurt my feelings one way or the other.

That’s a great tactic for 3rd grade, but kind of cowardly as an adult. The ignore button just lets you feel like you can say what you want without consequences, but people still think you’re wrong or an idiot or whatever the case may be. If you really need to ignore this many people maybe it’s better to stay off the forum entirely.

Besides, Orkan had a lot of good points that are worth considering. Look, it’s not about you being the bad guy, it’s about having reasonable expectations for other people. Your expectations are unreasonable and you’re trying to justify it with made-up ethics instead of logic or real right vs wrong. When you find yourself in that hole, the best thing to do is man up and admit that you need to reconsider.

I know you don’t like me because I disagreed with your claim in that other thread that Lever was basically the same as Varget, but that’s not why I’m commenting here. Our freedoms are pretty important and it’s important to understand the difference between good business practices and those who are actually deceptive and screwing people over. I don’t think any of us here feel it’s ok to screw people over, like if someone hid Tula primers in a Federal Gold Medal box and sold them as a premium primer. But just raising prices doesn’t hurt anyone except the guy who isn’t selling them, so the fake moral outrage doesn’t hold water.

 

[FuhQ]

That’s a great tactic for 3rd grade, but kind of cowardly as an adult. The ignore button just lets you feel like you can say what you want without consequences, but people still think you’re wrong or an idiot or whatever the case may be. If you really need to ignore this many people maybe it’s better to stay off the forum entirely.

Besides, Orkan had a lot of good points that are worth considering. Look, it’s not about you being the bad guy, it’s about having reasonable expectations for other people. Your expectations are unreasonable and you’re trying to justify it with made-up ethics instead of logic or real right vs wrong. When you find yourself in that hole, the best thing to do is man up and admit that you need to reconsider.

I know you don’t like me because I disagreed with your claim in that other thread that Lever was basically the same as Varget, but that’s not why I’m commenting here. Our freedoms are pretty important and it’s important to understand the difference between good business practices and those who are actually deceptive and screwing people over. I don’t think any of us here feel it’s ok to screw people over, like if someone hid Tula primers in a Federal Gold Medal box and sold them as a premium primer. But just raising prices doesn’t hurt anyone except the guy who isn’t selling them, so the fake moral outrage doesn’t hold water.

No, it's not childish, it's easier than fucking up a forum with a bunch of stupid arguments and accusations and back-and-forth blah blah bullshit, than it is for other members and new members to sit here and read that shit. When we should all be on the same side. Nobody wants to wade-through all that crap. And I can't blame them.

I'm not looking at it from an individual level... I'm seeing the future long-term damage to our sport and the fact that the people doing the gouging will eventually price the average man out of being able to enjoy this sport. I've seen it with my own 2 eyes while working in the industry. I mean, for fuck's sake, some scopes cost as much as a good used car. That is stupid to see a rifle scope that costs $3,000-5,000. Can I afford them? Hell no. I was born into a debt-slave generation and I work for a living...I don't make a shitload of money. Am I jealous of the man who can? Nope. Would I ever own one? Probably not, unless I won it for free. Because even If I could justify it, that still doesn't mean I would waste that much money on one, when you can get an equal-quality product for half as much, just because it doesn't have that iconic name on the side of it.

My point is... The more people raise prices, and others pay it, the more other products and companies think it's ok, so they follow suit. Then, it eventually that becomes the new "norm", and prices just stick way up there...Like $20+ for a brick of 500 lead nose .22LR is beyond stupid. Just 15 years ago I could buy a 550 bulk pack of Federal copper-plated .22LR for a $10 bill and still get back change... Anyone else remember those days? How about the $3.99 boxes of Federal Lake City XM193F 5.56 days...That was just back in 2009/2010. You know what happened? Someone said, "Hey, lets start charging more for this, claim there's a shortage of raw ingredients, and people will still pay it..." And then other companies raise their prices to compete for that extra pie. And that's how prices get raised across the board. Exactly what all the ammo companies are doing right now.

Prime example... Berger Hyrbids used to cost $54.99 a box/100. Now, they are $64.99 a box/100. They are the same product, made from the same materials, packaged in the same plastic boxes, with the same labels, and the same folded piece of white foam in the top... NOTHING has changed. Do you think once availability picks back up, those prices will ever drop back to $54.99 a box/100 again...? You get 3 guesses and 2 of them don't count.

That's my whole argument. Yes, gouging is wrong. But you don't have to buy it. And the government should NEVER get involved in the free market. But at the same time, this price increasing and price gouging, is going to long-term raise (inflate) the bottom-line pricing for everything AGAIN! And if the Dems pass all these stupid tax reforms (cough cough...Increases)

Now are we all on the same page? Can we all agree on that?

And honestly, I had forgotten about that other thread until just now...I do have a life outside of this forum. I'm not going to argue with you about that one either. That's why I stopped commenting on there.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Federal Small Rifle Gold Medal Match M205 Primers 1000ct box

[email protected]

mtncitysupply.net

View attachment 7546220

And I thought $45 a thousand was high when I bought FGMM time. Last time I bought primers was $20 a thousand in 2014, Wolf Small Magnum Rifle.

 

[Supersubes]

Why do you people keep thinking I want government intervention? I'm not the one who EVER said that... Someone else did. Not me.

Christ... Stop confusing me with other people and putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that.

HOWEVER, I DID say exactly what you just said, several days ago in this SAME thread, and several others, about how if people would stop paying the ridiculous prices, and people would stop panic-hoarding, things would go back to normal. But everyone overlooks that to try to prove some bullshit point that they're right, and I'm wrong.

I'm done...

No,

No, it's not childish, it's easier than fucking up a forum with a bunch of stupid arguments and accusations and back-and-forth blah blah bullshit, than it is for other members and new members to sit here and read that shit. When we should all be on the same side. Nobody wants to wade-through all that crap. And I can't blame them.

I'm not looking at it from an individual level... I'm seeing the future long-term damage to our sport and the fact that the people doing the gouging will eventually price the average man out of being able to enjoy this sport. I've seen it with my own 2 eyes while working in the industry. I mean, for fuck's sake, some scopes cost as much as a good used car. That is stupid to see a rifle scope that costs $3,000-5,000. Can I afford them? Hell no. I was born into a debt-slave generation and I work for a living...I don't make a shitload of money. Am I jealous of the man who can? Nope. Would I ever own one? Probably not, unless I won it for free. Because even If I could justify it, that still doesn't mean I would waste that much money on one, when you can get an equal-quality product for half as much, just because it doesn't have that iconic name on the side of it.

My point is... The more people raise prices, and others pay it, the more other products and companies think it's ok, so they follow suit. Then, it eventually that becomes the new "norm", and prices just stick way up there...Like $20+ for a brick of 500 lead nose .22LR is beyond stupid. Just 15 years ago I could buy a 550 bulk pack of Federal copper-plated .22LR for a $10 bill and still get back change... Anyone else remember those days? How about the $3.99 boxes of Federal Lake City XM193F 5.56 days...That was just back in 2009/2010. You know what happened? Someone said, "Hey, lets start charging more for this, claim there's a shortage of raw ingredients, and people will still pay it..." And then other companies raise their prices to compete for that extra pie. And that's how prices get raised across the board. Exactly what all the ammo companies are doing right now.

Prime example... Berger Hyrbids used to cost $54.99 a box/100. Now, they are $64.99 a box/100. They are the same product, made from the same materials, packaged in the same plastic boxes, with the same labels, and the same folded piece of white foam in the top... NOTHING has changed. Do you think once availability picks back up, those prices will ever drop back to $54.99 a box/100 again...? You get 3 guesses and 2 of them don't count.

That's my whole argument. Yes, gouging is wrong. But you don't have to buy it. And the government should NEVER get involved in the free market. But at the same time, this price increasing and price gouging, is going to long-term raise (inflate) the bottom-line pricing for everything AGAIN! And if the Dems pass all these stupid tax reforms (cough cough...Increases)

Now are we all on the same page? Can we all agree on that?

And honestly, I had forgotten about that other thread until just now...I do have a life outside of this forum. I'm not going to argue with you about that one either. That's why I stopped commenting on there.

You think prices go up because monkey see monkey do? Even if you really believed that, and could prove it, how could you think that was the cause of the $300 brick of primers that started this thread? Serious questions.

How is it that the top end optics that cost 3000-5000 bucks now, cost that much 15 years ago also? Ive seen prices fluctuate in all areas of this market. Why was my first S&B 5-25 scope $3200 bucks in 2006, yet I've bought a handful of them new in box from retailers in the last two years for 2100-2300? I can buy a myriad of Prefit barrels now for 400-700 bucks, years ago it was 700-1000. How much share of the market did Berger lose when Hornady intorduced the ELD’s, which up until recently I was buying for .29-.33 each. Nearly half cost and equal BC’s. The answers to these questions are easy, and we've explained it over and over again in this thread.

 

[FuhQ]

No,

You think prices go up because monkey see monkey do? Even if you really believed that, and could prove it, how could you think that was the cause of the $300 brick of primers that started this thread? Serious questions.

How is it that the top end optics that cost 3000-5000 bucks now, cost that much 15 years ago also? Ive seen prices fluctuate in all areas of this market. Why was my first S&B 5-25 scope $3200 bucks in 2006, yet I've bought a handful of them new in box from retailers in the last two years for 2100-2300? I can buy a myriad of Prefit barrels now for 400-700 bucks, years ago it was 700-1000. How much share of the market did Berger lose when Hornady intorduced the ELD’s, which up until recently I was buying for .29-.33 each. Nearly half cost and equal BC’s. The answers to these questions are easy, and we've explained it over and over again in this thread.

If it's been explained over and over again in this thread, when why are you still asking me rhetorical questions?

 

[Yondering]

No, it's not childish, it's easier than fucking up a forum with a bunch of stupid arguments and accusations and back-and-forth blah blah bullshit, than it is for other members and new members to sit here and read that shit. When we should all be on the same side. Nobody wants to wade-through all that crap. And I can't blame them.

I'm not looking at it from an individual level... I'm seeing the future long-term damage to our sport and the fact that the people doing the gouging will eventually price the average man out of being able to enjoy this sport. I've seen it with my own 2 eyes while working in the industry. I mean, for fuck's sake, some scopes cost as much as a good used car. That is stupid to see a rifle scope that costs $3,000-5,000. Can I afford them? Hell no. I was born into a debt-slave generation and I work for a living...I don't make a shitload of money. Am I jealous of the man who can? Nope. Would I ever own one? Probably not, unless I won it for free. Because even If I could justify it, that still doesn't mean I would waste that much money on one, when you can get an equal-quality product for half as much, just because it doesn't have that iconic name on the side of it.

My point is... The more people raise prices, and others pay it, the more other products and companies think it's ok, so they follow suit. Then, it eventually that becomes the new "norm", and prices just stick way up there...Like $20+ for a brick of 500 lead nose .22LR is beyond stupid. Just 15 years ago I could buy a 550 bulk pack of Federal copper-plated .22LR for a $10 bill and still get back change... Anyone else remember those days? How about the $3.99 boxes of Federal Lake City XM193F 5.56 days...That was just back in 2009/2010. You know what happened? Someone said, "Hey, lets start charging more for this, claim there's a shortage of raw ingredients, and people will still pay it..." And then other companies raise their prices to compete for that extra pie. And that's how prices get raised across the board. Exactly what all the ammo companies are doing right now.

Prime example... Berger Hyrbids used to cost $54.99 a box/100. Now, they are $64.99 a box/100. They are the same product, made from the same materials, packaged in the same plastic boxes, with the same labels, and the same folded piece of white foam in the top... NOTHING has changed. Do you think once availability picks back up, those prices will ever drop back to $54.99 a box/100 again...? You get 3 guesses and 2 of them don't count.

That's my whole argument. Yes, gouging is wrong. But you don't have to buy it. And the government should NEVER get involved in the free market. But at the same time, this price increasing and price gouging, is going to long-term raise (inflate) the bottom-line pricing for everything AGAIN! And if the Dems pass all these stupid tax reforms (cough cough...Increases)

Now are we all on the same page? Can we all agree on that?

And honestly, I had forgotten about that other thread until just now...I do have a life outside of this forum. I'm not going to argue with you about that one either. That's why I stopped commenting on there.

At least you’re finally communicating your real complaint- you’re just bitter about not being able to afford things you want. But stop trying to use fake morality to justify your frustration. This is how supply and demand works in a free economy, as you should understand if you stopped to think about it deeper than “bUt it’S not fAIr!”.

There is no such thing as gouging if you don’t have to buy it. Only whining and valuing your immediate wants more than your freedom.

And I know you didn’t “forget about that other thread” because it was yesterday.

 

[FuhQ]

At least you’re finally communicating your real complaint- you’re just bitter about not being able to afford things you want. But stop trying to use fake morality to justify your frustration. This is how supply and demand works in a free economy, as you should understand if you stopped to think about it deeper than “bUt it’S not fAIr!”.

There is no such thing as gouging if you don’t have to buy it. Only whining and valuing your immediate wants more than your freedom.

And I know you didn’t “forget about that other thread” because it was yesterday.

More of that butthurt you keep projecting onto me... Man, yall are just insufferable when someone doesn't agree with your opinions. You're never going to convert me. So continuing to argue your opinion is beyond childish.

As for that thread, I honestly hadn't even thought about it. I have a real life, and the contents of that thread are completely inconsequential to it or the things in it. And my frustration is not "because it's not fair" or "because I can't afford it"... Assuming how much money I make, or what I do and don't have would not be a smart move... I'm not hurting for supplies. I'm not looking out of necessity. The only thing I'm always on the lookout for, are the same things I'm always buying up, even when times are not tough...

And the fact you called morality "fake", shows me what type of person you really are.

 

[Supersubes]

If it's been explained over and over again in this thread, when why are you still asking me rhetorical questions?

You provided nothing to support your claim that one vendor jacks up prices simply because some other vendor does. Yondering is right, you're incoherent in your thoughts on this topic. No logic whatsoever. We really should stop, but to come across an adult who is so dense that basic concepts cannot be conveyed by an army of people, its become a spectacle, and why this thread continues.

 

[FuhQ]

You provided nothing to support your claim that one vendor jacks up prices simply because some other vendor does. Yondering is right, you're incoherent in your thoughts on this topic. No logic whatsoever. We really should stop, but to come across an adult who is so dense that basic concepts cannot be conveyed by an army of people, its become a spectacle, and why this thread continues.

No, what is sad, is a group of grown men, probably 50+ years old, who all happen to think the same way, think it's not childish to try to bully someone into agreeing with them and believing their point of view, and accepting it as their own. Instead of comprehending that other people have different opinions, not the mention the fact that you people are too dense to comprehend those other opinions, especially from a mortality standpoint. And calling morality "fake" and saying it has no place in business is beyond pathetic. I hope nobody ever does business with any of you ever again after exposing yourselves for the type of human beings you are showing yourselves to be in this thread. Even after you overlook the childish bullshit.

Calling me names and accusing me of things you have NO clue about are what's sad, childish, and pathetic...Simply because I don't agree with you or your opinions. The groupthink narrative in the populous of this thread is hilarious. The fact you think that ONLY your opinion is right, is beyond hilarious. And the fact that you want to bully those who don't bow to your lack of intellect and project on them your own mentality inadequacies, is beyond pedantic.

I'm out. This is so beyond stupid that it's bordering on neurotic. Enjoy fucking your customers, forum mates, and friends over "because business is business".

 

[mkollman74]

No, what is sad, is a group of grown men, probably 50+ years old, who all happen to think the same way, think it's not childish to try to bully someone into agreeing with them and believing their point of view, and accepting it as their own. Instead of comprehending that other people have different opinions, not the mention the fact that you people are too dense to comprehend those other opinions, especially from a mortality standpoint. And calling morality "fake" and saying it has no place in business is beyond pathetic. I hope nobody ever does business with any of you ever again after exposing yourselves for the type of human beings you are showing yourselves to be in this thread. Even after you overlook the childish bullshit.

Calling me names and accusing me of things you have NO clue about are what's sad, childish, and pathetic...Simply because I don't agree with you or your opinions. The groupthink narrative in the populous of this thread is hilarious. The fact you think that ONLY your opinion is right, is beyond hilarious. And the fact that you want to bully those who don't bow to your lack of intellect and project on them your own mentality inadequacies, is beyond pedantic.

I'm out. This is so beyond stupid that it's bordering on neurotic. Enjoy fucking your customers, forum mates, and friends over "because business is business".

No words for this degree of fail...

 

[Supersubes]

No words for this degree of fail...

Agreed!

 

[Yondering]

More of that butthurt you keep projecting onto me... Man, yall are just insufferable when someone doesn't agree with your opinions. You're never going to convert me. So continuing to argue your opinion is beyond childish.

As for that thread, I honestly hadn't even thought about it. I have a real life, and the contents of that thread are completely inconsequential to it or the things in it. And my frustration is not "because it's not fair" or "because I can't afford it"... Assuming how much money I make, or what I do and don't have would not be a smart move... I'm not hurting for supplies. I'm not looking out of necessity. The only thing I'm always on the lookout for, are the same things I'm always buying up, even when times are not tough...

And the fact you called morality "fake", shows me what type of person you really are.

Don't you know that your dishonesty is on display every time you twist someone's words around? You've been doing it almost every post, and the only reason for it is to make the other person angry by pretending you didn't understand; you know what you're doing and everyone can read what was actually written.
And now you're lying about forgetting a different thread where you got mad when I pointed out your foolishness, which doesn't really matter except you're the one talking about ethics and morality.

You know I didn't say morality is fake, but I did say your morality is fake. You know, the kind where it's unethical to raise prices past some point that only you can determine? Or the kind of morality that's just a stepping stool for you to try to feel superior to everyone else? That's what I call fake morality or ethics.

I think this whole time while you've been pretending to be too dumb to understand supply and demand, it's really just been a cover for your pretending to be morally superior to everyone else here. That's pretty deceptive, but mostly to yourself.

Here's a brain teaser for ya - if it's unethical for businesses or people to raise prices when demand is high and supply is low, is it also unethical for them to lower prices when demand is low? Should they sit on their stock and not make any money, or does this only work one direction (i.e. in your favor)?

 

[spife7980]

I'll make a deal with you... I won't post what I had originally typed-out, and you just hit the ignore button on me, and I'll hit the ignore button on you, and we'll just avoid each other, and things will be much better off. Trust me, we're never going to get along...It would be beneficial to everyone. The same goes for anyone who doesn't like my comments, posts, and opinions...PLEASE hit the ignore button, it will save you a lot of headache down the road. It doesn't tell me if you ignore me, so it doesn't hurt my feelings one way or the other.

You seem really dumb.

 

[FuhQ]

Don't you know that your dishonesty is on display every time you twist someone's words around? You've been doing it almost every post, and the only reason for it is to make the other person angry by pretending you didn't understand; you know what you're doing and everyone can read what was actually written.
And now you're lying about forgetting a different thread where you got mad when I pointed out your foolishness, which doesn't really matter except you're the one talking about ethics and morality.

You know I didn't say morality is fake, but I did say your morality is fake. You know, the kind where it's unethical to raise prices past some point that only you can determine? Or the kind of morality that's just a stepping stool for you to try to feel superior to everyone else? That's what I call fake morality or ethics.

I think this whole time while you've been pretending to be too dumb to understand supply and demand, it's really just been a cover for your pretending to be morally superior to everyone else here. That's pretty deceptive, but mostly to yourself.

Here's a brain teaser for ya - if it's unethical for businesses or people to raise prices when demand is high and supply is low, is it also unethical for them to lower prices when demand is low? Should they sit on their stock and not make any money, or does this only work one direction (i.e. in your favor)?

The butthurt continues and you just can't handle the fact of someone having a different perspective and still being right, even though it doesn't prove you wrong, your ego just can't handle it, that's why you keep bringing up the other thread, and you keep responding to this one with extreme butthurt and anger trying to make me look like I'm the bad guy. So you keep running that mouth to prove your competence. So now you're turning it all around and projecting your own inadequacies, onto me.

This is beyond the funniest, but also the saddest, thing I've ever seen on the internet. And other people following along with you, is the turd-fudge icing on top of this shitcake.

 

[FuhQ]

You seem really dumb.

And the intellect behind your overwhelmingly articulate response isn't?

 

[Jefe's Dope]

The butthurt continues and you just can't handle the fact of someone having a different perspective and still being right, even though it doesn't prove you wrong, your ego just can't handle it, that's why you keep bringing up the other thread, and you keep responding to this one with extreme butthurt and anger trying to make me look like I'm the bad guy. So you keep running that mouth to prove your competence. So now you're turning it all around and projecting your own inadequacies, onto me.

This is beyond the funniest, but also the saddest, thing I've ever seen on the internet. And other people following along with you, is the turd-fudge icing on top of this shitcake.

You're clearly just fucking stupid or a troll. I'm near certain you're just fucking retarded. This is opined as an observer thus far. Your arguments are invalid, lack logic or consistency, and your refusal to accept facts is astonishing. I thought you were just stubborn and too proud but you proved you're just too fucking stupid to understand.

 

[mkollman74]

...you just can't handle the fact of someone having a different perspective and still being right, even though it doesn't prove you wrong...

Is this even possible...? Asking for a confused friend.

 

[FuhQ]

You're clearly just fucking stupid or a troll. I'm near certain you're just fucking retarded. This is opined as an observer thus far. Your arguments are invalid, lack logic or consistency, and your refusal to accept facts is astonishing. I thought you were just stubborn and too proud but you proved you're just too fucking stupid to understand.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Welp, you guys couldn’t help yourself.

Locked.