One more shortage....

[Hobo Hilton]

A shortage of a critical part used to build basements in new homes threatens to bring construction to a standstill, delivering the latest blow to an industry that has been squeezed by rising mortgage rates and a lumber deficiency.

Flat steel form ties, a small piece of metal that ties together aluminum panels that make the walls, allowing builders to pour concrete in between, are in short supply due to a number of factors including just-in-time inventory, tariffs on imports and the supply chain impacts of COVID-19.
_____________
“A Little Neglect May Breed Great Mischief” Root-Cause Thinking Reveals That We Are Only as Strong as Our Weakest Link “For want of a nail, the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the rider was lost. For want of a rider, the battle was lost. For want of a battle, the kingdom was lost, And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.”
___________________

Home construction may hit skids as new supply shortage looms

A shortage of a critical part used to build basements in new homes threatens to bring new construction to a standstill, delivering the latest blow to an industry that has been squeezed by rising mortgage rates and a lumber deficiency.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[pmclaine]

So the globalists kill the US economy and the nascent domestic supply chain, which stood up would have been good for the US worker/economy, by introducing the scamdemic.....

So now when does the drum beat start that the US cant build shit as simple as a form tie and we need to rely on China and the global market if we intend to get anything done.

Lots of treason in DC.

 

[BullGear]

I wouldn't want to have to build a house right now. Lumber prices are out of this world. They say rebar is going up and now you're talking about these form ties. I wonder how long it will be before Teco hangers are gone from the shelves? Then you wonder about nails.

The cost of lumber is concerning to me. Lumber isn't something that you can source from another manufacturer or open up another plant.

 

[308Gunner]

I just bought flooring for my cow trailer, 10 years ago it cost me 220.00 for oak. Yesterday was 461.00 for treated pine the oak was going to be damn near double. It’s crazy

 

[HiDesertELR]

Told my wife our next house might end up being a recycled tire, soda can, and cob structure...

The silence was deafening

 

[Herb Stoner]

A major US producer (DeCristo) was sold in a leveraged deal and went bankrupt a few years later when tilt-up construction all but stopped. Concrete accessories have moved to China for manufacturing like other sectors. That was 10+ years ago but a step toward where we are now.

 

[Devildog]

I’ve been a builder for over 30 yrs and I can tell you that it’s bad out here. We are able to get product but what we use to get in days can take months. An example is I’m finishing up a new house I ordered the appliances when we poured the foundation that was 4 plus months ago. Just checked last week everything still isn’t in. I’m certainly concerned about my future and for the guys who work for me I feel a huge obligation to keep them working as well, we all need to make a living.

 

[Mwalex]

We all know Sniffy Joe has NO intention of stimulating the US economy, not directly anyway. It ain’t looking good for the home team.

 

[Maggot]

I’ve been a builder for over 30 yrs and I can tell you that it’s bad out here. We are able to get product but what we use to get in days can take months. An example is I’m finishing up a new house I ordered the appliances when we poured the foundation that was 4 plus months ago. Just checked last week everything still isn’t in. I’m certainly concerned about my future and for the guys who work for me I feel a huge obligation to keep them working as well, we all need to make a living.

I finished an addition to my home just over a year ago. 2x4's were about $2.99 then. Today, $7.50 or so depending on whether its 'whitewood' or yellow pine.

 

[chevy_man]

We just bought $15k in plastic boxes for resi wiring.

Most are made in Plano, Texas. Between the snow, plandemic, and crazy building we found our normal supplier out of stock. We figured that is a 3-6 month supply depending on how quick the projects start moving this spring.

 

[Devildog]

I finished an addition to my home just over a year ago. 2x3's were about $2.99 then. Today, $7.50 or so depending on whether its 'whitewood' or yellow pine.

I hear ya, 7/16 osb plywood was $6-8 a sheet a year ago, it’s $33 -35 a sheet right now. As soon as interest rates start climbing and other cost like fuel exc. goes up it’s 2008 all over again. This time the ship may sink! It’s not good!

 

[Maggot]

I hear ya, 7/16 osb plywood was $6-8 a sheet a year ago, it’s $33 -35 a sheet right now. As soon as interest rates start climbing and other cost like fuel exc. goes up it’s 2008 all over again. This time the ship may sink! It’s not good!

IDK, in my area, central Virginia, they are building like there's no tomorrow. I reckon most of the financing had been done some time back, but still...

 

[Hobo Hilton]

I wouldn't want to have to build a house right now. Lumber prices are out of this world. They say rebar is going up and now you're talking about these form ties. I wonder how long it will be before Teco hangers are gone from the shelves? Then you wonder about nails.

The cost of lumber is concerning to me. Lumber isn't something that you can source from another manufacturer or open up another plant.

I'll try not to hijack my own topic...... But, here in the West there have been (and will be more) massive forest fires that burned millions of acres of saleable timber. I watched lumber mills in Oregon and Washington simply shut down and town's become ghost town's.... Remember the "Spotted Owl".... If, and that's a big IF timber could be harvested in order to create fire line breaks in the forest.... That would #1 Put people back to work and #2 Alleviate some of the shortage of lumber.

But, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and watch the downfall continue.

Hobo

 

[Maggot]

I'll try not to hijack my own topic...... But, here in the West there have been (and will be more) massive forest fires that burned millions of acres of saleable timber. I watched lumber mills in Oregon and Washington simply shut down and town's become ghost town's.... Remember the "Spotted Owl".... If, and that's a big IF timber could be harvested in order to create fire line breaks in the forest.... That would #1 Put people back to work and #2 Alleviate some of the shortage of lumber.

But, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and watch the downfall continue.

Hobo

The burned timber is still usable is it not? The problem I heard is that the environmentalists still wont let them go in and harvest it.

 

[Devildog]

IDK, in my area, central Virginia, they are building like there's no tomorrow. I reckon most of the financing had been done some time back, but still...

Owe I agree, things are booming but I’ve rode a lot of ups and downs in my years. When things get the way they are know it won’t be long and it’ll drop like a rock and a bunch of greedy builders that have there necks out to far will soon get them chopped off. Watched it happen and it’s coming again and I fear sooner then later.

 

[Mwalex]

The burned timber is still usable is it not? The problem I heard is that the environmentalists still wont let them go in and harvest it.

The environmentalist won’t “let” them?! WTF does that even mean? Do the tree fuckers own the land or trees? Some people need to have their priorities corrected.

 

[TheGerman]

I can't wait to find out what retarded amount of money the guy building behind me ended up actually spending in regards to a house he was told would be around $600k. He has to be into it for double if not triple that with the material costs that his shitty fly by night builder he brought along, can barely get.

 

[acudaowner]

think that's bad wait till food gets hard to find things are going just how the dims wanted them down the drain and fast .

 

[Hobo Hilton]

The burned timber is still usable is it not? The problem I heard is that the environmentalists still wont let them go in and harvest it.

That is part of it.... We had the "Roaring Lion Fire" here in the Bitterroot... Winter set in and the mud runoff was terrible into the river. Next the "Approved" timber contractors went in and tried to get some of the standing dead trees... that was short lived because they just could not make any profit off of the wood. Then it was opened up to the local firewood cutters. I have some photos somewhere of them dealing with the smut and tar on the firewood... The carbon residue dulled the chainsaw chains in short order.... It remains a mess up on that mountain. Many homeowners took the insurance settlement money and abandoned the property....

 

[Hobo Hilton]

think that's bad wait till food gets hard to find things are going just how the dims wanted them down the drain and fast .

I'm going to pick a random number here so don't beat me up.... Population of America is 331 million people. Let's say 2% of those people are in "transition" after leaving undesirable cities in America and are living rural in RV's, tent/s, shoe box apartments, etc across America. They can't grow a garden or skin a deer. Already, many local 'Food Banks" are running out of food... Where will these 6 million people turn when the food supply chain breaks down ? They can't eat that EBT card the government will be handing out.

 

[BullGear]

We all know Sniffy Joe has NO intention of stimulating the US economy, not directly anyway. It ain’t looking good for the home team.

Correct. I have yet to hear of anyting he has done that would be considered America First. Unless you're talking about Central and South America.

 

[Maggot]

I'm going to pick a random number here so don't beat me up.... Population of America is 331 million people. Let's say 2% of those people are in "transition" after leaving undesirable cities in America and are living rural in RV's, tent/s, shoe box apartments, etc across America. They can't grow a garden or skin a deer. Already, many local 'Food Banks" are running out of food... Where will these 6 million people turn when the food supply chain breaks down ? They can't eat that EBT card the government will be handing out.

It wont be purty. Im pretty well stocked and add a few things to the stock each time I go to the grocery. The tough part will be no fresh veges or fruits except in the summer.

 

[Jscb1b]

The rodeo chedisky was closed to logging for 10 years because of environmental lawsuits. The part that was on the white mountain apache tribe was being logged as soon as the fire was out. The ecofreaks dropped the lawsuits after the the timber on the national forest was rotted.

 

[BytorJr]

I about had a coronary when I saw the price of 12ga solid copper wire at Lowe's!!!!

Then after getting over that, I see petroleum distillate has gone up another 40 cents since I last bought in mid-Feb. Don't worry, this housing boom is going to come to a dramatic end very shortly after the current polices take firmly hold.

 

[Maggot]

I about had a coronary when I saw the price of 12ga solid copper wire at Lowe's!!!!

Then after getting over that, I see petroleum distillate has gone up another 40 cents since I last bought in mid-Feb. Don't worry, this housing boom is going to come to a dramatic end very shortly after the current polices take firmly hold.

The current gas price spike isnt Joe's fault, its due to the Saudi's and OPEC making dramatic cuts once they put the Texas and northern oil fields out of business. Cutting the pipeline will affect prices later.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

When I worked in a sawmill in Northern B.C., we ran 'burnt wood' for more than a year. It was in an attempt to salvage anything we could out of the forests and valley's that were burned in a forest fire.

'burnt wood' definitely is harder on the machines. It is more erosive to the process. The quality of the product is different, too. There needs to be some BIG incentives to run that stuff out of your mill in order for it to be 'cost-effective' and still have a product that a customer can/will use in the end.

And all this is possible WHEN you keep the tree-hugging, fish-kissing, granola-munching, feather-sniffing, Kum-ba-ya-singing hippy-enviro-freak-BASTARDS out of the equation.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Keep an eye on this one:

Australia: The truck drivers of Australia are planning to shut down the country in order to bring down the dictators... They are telling you to stock up on food for a couple of weeks . Let’s see how this plays out.. #NoMoreLockdowns #AustraliaHasFallen

 

[1moaoff]

Electric motors for machinery and controls for motors are getting hard to find in stock also.

 

[Jethro3898]

I didn't read the article, but masonry ties and the like are stamped steel parts. They are stamped from coil.
Producing them is simple and extremely fast. The problem is that mills have throttled coil production.

I'm facing that throttling in my line of work. Steel deck (formed from coil) is 25-30 weeks out. My suppliers are telling me that the issue isn't their capacity to run the coil through their deck mills, it's that the mills they purchase the coil from has cut them back to 80% or 85% of their rolling capacity.

I asked if this was an intentional decision by the mills to keep the coil pricing high or if they were unable to produce the coil fast enough. I didn't receive a direct answer, but my vendors suggested that it was about 50/50.....difficulty getting raw material to produce coil and not caring if production is throttled because they are making money hand over fist. If you don't believe, just look up stories about Nucor's sales volumes and profits in Q1 and Q2 of this year, then compare it to any previous year you want to.....freaking mind-boggling.

Steel decking (composite or roof) last year was anywhere from $1.75 to $2.50 per sq. ft., depending on the gage or profile. I just priced a job where the average price for the same, run-of-the-mill deck was $7.12 per sq. ft. Tell me someone isn't raking the dough in!!

 

[NV_Dmax]

I didn't read the article, but masonry ties and the like are stamped steel parts. They are stamped from coil.
Producing them is simple and extremely fast. The problem is that mills have throttled coil production.

I'm facing that throttling in my line of work. Steel deck (formed from coil) is 25-30 weeks out. My suppliers are telling me that the issue isn't their capacity to run the coil through their deck mills, it's that the mills they purchase the coil from has cut them back to 80% or 85% of their rolling capacity.

I asked if this was an intentional decision by the mills to keep the coil pricing high or if they were unable to produce the coil fast enough. I didn't receive a direct answer, but my vendors suggested that it was about 50/50.....difficulty getting raw material to produce coil and not caring if production is throttled because they are making money hand over fist. If you don't believe, just look up stories about Nucor's sales volumes and profits in Q1 and Q2 of this year, then compare it to any previous year you want to.....freaking mind-boggling.

Steel decking (composite or roof) last year was anywhere from $1.75 to $2.50 per sq. ft., depending on the gage or profile. I just priced a job where the average price for the same, run-of-the-mill deck was $7.12 per sq. ft. Tell me someone isn't raking the dough in!!

There is slab and coil sitting in containers not getting unloaded and shipped.

My price on HSS tube is at 145.75/cwt that's 3x what it was in October 2020. The steel industry is getting decimated.

 

[Jethro3898]

There is slab and coil sitting in containers not getting unloaded and shipped.

My price on HSS tube is at 145.75/cwt that's 3x what it was in October 2020. The steel industry is getting decimated.

You are so correct.
We are getting hammered right now. The thing that surprises me is that people are still buying it. How it has not collapsed under it own weight is beyond me. Since this time last year, tubing is up $1,550 per ton ($0.77 per lb). Absolutely freaking ridiculous!

 

[BullGear]

There is slab and coil sitting in containers not getting unloaded and shipped.

My price on HSS tube is at 145.75/cwt that's 3x what it was in October 2020. The steel industry is getting decimated.

Shouldn't this make American recycled steel a better alternative?

 

[SilentStalkr]

The burned timber is still usable is it not? The problem I heard is that the environmentalists still wont let them go in and harvest it.

When I worked in a sawmill in Northern B.C., we ran 'burnt wood' for more than a year. It was in an attempt to salvage anything we could out of the forests and valley's that were burned in a forest fire.

'burnt wood' definitely is harder on the machines. It is more erosive to the process. The quality of the product is different, too. There needs to be some BIG incentives to run that stuff out of your mill in order for it to be 'cost-effective' and still have a product that a customer can/will use in the end.

And all this is possible WHEN you keep the tree-hugging, fish-kissing, granola-munching, feather-sniffing, Kum-ba-ya-singing hippy-enviro-freak-BASTARDS out of the equation.

Believe it or not, charred/burnt would should be preferred, especially if it’s exterior application. The reason being is because charred/burned wood actually seals it and the stuff lasts forever! Insects also don’t like it. The Japanese have been doing this on purpose in building for thousands of years.

 

[Trigger Time 23]

I am a commercial masonry contractor. Wool building insulations had a lead time of 10 days pre-covid. I placed an order a couple weeks ago and the lead time was 8-10 months. Crazy.

 

[Maggot]

Believe it or not, charred/burnt would should be preferred, especially if it’s exterior application. The reason being is because charred/burned wood actually seals it and the stuff lasts forever! Insects also don’t like it. The Japanese have been doing this on purpose in building for thousands of years.

We used to do it on the farm for fence posts. Char the part going into the ground. Nothing compares to (eastern) Red Cedar though. Ive seen cedar posts that have been in the ground 100 years and still solid and holding wire. They outlast the staples holding the wire.

 

[Maggot]

I am a commercial masonry contractor. Wool building insulations had a lead time of 10 days pre-covid. I placed an order a couple weeks ago and the lead time was 8-10 months. Crazy.

Stonemasonry contractor here, fortunately retired. We discovered a new type of dinosaur, the Backasore, LOL

Do you mean fiberglass insulation? Its in stock here.

 

[NV_Dmax]

Shouldn't this make American recycled steel a better alternative?

I’m not sure if the recycled steel can meet the mill cert. requirements needed in my industry. Other than that, I know they can’t meet my demand.

 

[packratt]

We used to do it on the farm for fence posts. Char the part going into the ground. Nothing compares to (eastern) Red Cedar though. Ive seen cedar posts that have been in the ground 100 years and still solid and holding wire. They outlast the staples holding the wire.

It will either be there for 100 years or 1 year.

If the post has much white mixed in with the red it isn't worth the effort to tamp it in the hole.

 

[Maggot]

It will either be there for 100 years or 1 year.

If the post has much white mixed in with the red it isn't worth the effort to tamp it in the hole.

THats for sure but in the time these were planted there was plenty of good stuff to pick from.

 

[Ravenworks]

There is slab and coil sitting in containers not getting unloaded and shipped.

My price on HSS tube is at 145.75/cwt that's 3x what it was in October 2020. The steel industry is getting decimated.

Republic Steel is shut down due to hazmat.

Timken company Faircrest plant is empty of products and workers after first shift.
They closed Harrison,Gambirus laying off 400 jobs last month

 

[Jgunner]

The rodeo chedisky was closed to logging for 10 years because of environmental lawsuits. The part that was on the white mountain apache tribe was being logged as soon as the fire was out. The ecofreaks dropped the lawsuits after the the timber on the national forest was rotted.

Saw that and always was curious as to why. Ugh

 

[BullGear]

Republic Steel is shut down due to hazmat.

Timken company Faircrest plant is empty of products and workers after first shift.
They closed Harrison,Gambirus laying off 400 jobs last month
View attachment 7691391View attachment 7691392View attachment 7691393View attachment 7691394

Did they ship the steel to another plant???

 

[NV_Dmax]

Republic Steel is shut down due to hazmat.

Timken company Faircrest plant is empty of products and workers after first shift.
They closed Harrison,Gambirus laying off 400 jobs last month

This stinks to high hell. I have a 1/2 million pounds that I ordered in May and roll dates weren’t even posted and I’m still waiting on. Mills still won’t tell me when I’m going to see it.

there’s some evil cocksucking going on behind the scenes and I think it’s only going to end ugly.

 

[NV_Dmax]

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/pennsylvania/articles/2021-04-30/us-steel-ends-plans-to-plow-15b-into-pennsylvania-plants

long, bumpy road ahead….

 

[NoDopes]

Is this the third blow from China? WuFlu, real estate, now base production?
WWIII is almost over and we didn't even know it had started.

 

[Jethro3898]

This stinks to high hell. I have a 1/2 million pounds that I ordered in May and roll dates weren’t even posted and I’m still waiting on. Mills still won’t tell me when I’m going to see it.

If you don't mind me asking, what portion of the steel industry are you in?

I'm in structural steel fabrication, so the vast majority of my purchases are wide flange. We also purchase a fair amount of HSS, but almost exclusively square/rectangle. We don't do a lot of pipe work. Plate, angle and channel are what we consider "detail material" so it makes up a pretty small amount of our overall projects. We haven't experienced any significant shortages yet on the material we need for our projects. Maybe rolling dates have slid out slightly, but nothing earth shattering. We purchase as much as we can directly from Nucor (wide flange exclusively), but everything else is from a warehouse/service center. Joist and deck are another item altogether. We have these on many of our projects and the lead times are freaking nuts......but the stuff we run through our shop hasn't been too terribly hard to get a hold of.....just outrageously expensive.

I was just curious what part of the industry you are in due to the comment above. I know certain sectors are hit a lot harder than us.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

This stinks to high hell. I have a 1/2 million pounds that I ordered in May and roll dates weren’t even posted and I’m still waiting on. Mills still won’t tell me when I’m going to see it.

there’s some evil cocksucking going on behind the scenes and I think it’s only going to end ugly.

The "behind the scene" scenarios are across the board in our economy / commerce. In every discussion we have about shortages, there are some consumer's who report very little shortages but price increases. There are some cases where the middle men are selling off commodities to consumers who are paying above fair market or advertised prices. Almost a Black Market operating within the market place. Difficult to explain how the guy down the road got a load of ___________ (fill in the blank) while another guy is on a 22 week waiting list.

This is what I am seeing but again, JMHO.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Is this the third blow from China? WuFlu, real estate, now base production?
WWIII is almost over and we didn't even know it had started.

The forth blow could very well be the disruption of the food supply chain.

 

[Ravenworks]

Did they ship the steel to another plant???

No,they're just not making anything.

Faircrest plant spent almost 750 million on upgrading their plant.
They added a continuous caster and a forge press in billet conditioning.

When they do a bottom pour and send the billets to the press they are able to make the steel to about 98% density.

They also spent about 300 million on upgrading their tube mill, they haven't even run a foot of material through it.

 

[Alpine 338]

I need galvanized schedule 40 pipe, couldn't find it anywhere, so had to buy the regular stuff and send it off to be galvanized. 5-pieces of 6" cost me $4500, and the highest quote was nearly $7000. It wouldn't have cost much more to go all stainless steel.