Operation Just Cause, US Army rifle question

[Bodark]

Did the US Army issue/use an ar15 "sniper rifle" in the 1989 invasion of Panama?

I will be the first to admit, I dont know BUT

I dropped by the local gunshop and while I was looking at the firearms,
I am hearing this guy tell the shop owner about being a US soldier in Pamana
and how he was carrying a "GOVT ISSUED" M16 sniper rifle.

Being a history buff I chatted with him a bit when the shop owner got busy.
He couldnt remember what the make of the scope was.
He couldnt remember the power settings of the scope
and when asked about ammunition,
He claimed it the same stuff that was issued to everyone else to
load in their 30 round magazines.

Is his story possible? or did they let an armchair commando out to play at
the gun shop? Too much here doesnt add up.

 

[Redmanss]

I call bullshit.

 

[bogeybrown]

I'm with Redmanss. What he MAY have had was a regular A1 (I think that was the correct model in 89) with one of those little 4x "toilet paper tube" scopes mounted on the carry handle. I have no idea who rated those, but my un-founded guess would have been a pre-cursor to the DMR program of late.

 

[kiwiaug]

seen a sof mag with airborne with colt 4x scope for panama.

 

[MarinePMI]

F.A.S.T. Co. had M-16A2's that were scoped while in Panama. I wouldn't call them "sniper rifles", more like "Designated Marksman" rifles...but they definitely weren't Army (back then we didn't wear anything like the Army on our uniforms; all we had was the club patch back then or your name stenciled across your back and right cargo pocket if you came off a SOC qual'ed deployment...).

 

[George Az]

89 would have been an A2's. Some guys bought their own stuff like a scope and handle mount - but I doubt he bought his own if he doesn't remember what it was. In 1989, there were far fewer round designations than today. I don't recall ever seeing the picatiny flattop receiver that early. In any service. Heck even SOF 3 gun which was the first of their type back then - I don't remember seeing anything like that.

 

[MarinePMI]

Yeah, these were issued (I don't recall what they were, I was a radio operator back then and was concerned with other things), along with that crappy mount that bolted onto the carrying handle. They were used to cover exit points when the teams were clearing a building. Awkward to say the least (crappy cheek weld due to the high mounting of the scope) and temperamental. I'll have to root around and see if I can find a picture...only one I have found on the web of FAST in Panama was a Marine using a CAR-9...

Marines weren't allow personal gear back then. It was either issued, or purchased on an open contract/impact card...

And IIRC, the Army was still largely equipped with the A1's back then (though I may be wrong, as that was quite a few years ago). And no, I don't think flat tops even existed back then...

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Did the US Army issue/use an ar15 "sniper rifle" in the 1989 invasion of Panama?

Short answer is no and I was there for that event. The only actual sniper systems we had were our M-21s/M24s and a few other bolt guns that we had in our unit at the time, one was a Styr but no "AR15 sniper rifles". The M-16 everyone else carried was the A2 and no one had an optic mounted on it at that time with the exception of a few of the CAG guys who had a small 1-4 power scope mounted to the top of the handle. You either had a bolt gun (if that is what you did) or like almost everyone else on the invasion, you had a standard issued A-2.

 

[Redmanss]

Papa, that picture is pure awesomeness!

 

[LRRPF52]

Papa 03, was that Charlie 1-1 of 7th by any chance? Awesome photo. Just Because is one of the rarely-discussed operations in the modern era.

I've read accounts of at least one guy in Ranger Battalion (2/75 IIRC), who used an M16A2 with PVS-4 to take out PDF soldiers at night during their airfield seizure at Rio Hato.

 

[WildBill3/75]

Sounds like someone needs an ass kicking.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Papa 03, was that Charlie 1-1 of 7th by any chance? Awesome photo. Just Because is one of the rarely-discussed operations in the modern era.

I've read accounts of at least one guy in Ranger Battalion (2/75 IIRC), who used an M16A2 with PVS-4 to take out PDF soldiers at night during their airfield seizure at Rio Hato.

No, C/3/7 and they had secured the airfield before anyone even jumped in seeing how they were stationed in panama at the time. They sat on their rucks out in the open so they didn't take any friendly fire as people came off the dz onto the Tarmac.

 

[pmclaine]

I see no Kestrel, there is no laser range finder, the scope turrets are capped and the magnification looks to be a fixed power. Alice gear, perhaps an empty K-Bar sheath or some sort of a drop leg holster. Boots made from dead animals and green canvas. How did they hit anything with this basic technology? Someone was perhaps going off the reservation with field expedient knee pads. The fore runner of the operators shegmah was a green towel. Where are the fritz helmets and flak vests? They don't even have some bad ass looking Oakleys yet these guys were/are bad ass.

It had to be the awesome late 80's porn star mustaches.

Awesome picture.

I remember the report of the breaking news of the invasion well I was on an overnight in Heidelberg finishing up a commissary trip to stock the house of MSG Det Geneva with chocolate pop tarts and microwave burritos.

 

[LRRPF52]

I have always gotten the strong impression of "cowboy" for some reason when around 7th Group guys, and I liked it. If you strolled from the 7th Group Compound at Bragg, over to 3rd Group, the atmosphere contrast was beyond palpable, without even meeting anyone.

That was before they moved them to Florida, which was pretty recent. I meant to ask whichever was the CIF down in Panama for SOUTHCOM. Couldn't remember if it was C/1/7, or C/3/7, but 3/7 sounds more like it now. One of my BNCOC instructors was from 7th's CIF, a Latino guy who was very passionate about CQB. The 1SG at the time was one of the guys whose team became "famous" for the hide site compromise in Iraq in Desert Storm/1991, where they were saved by the F-16 after blowing their primary radio systems, and had to use the survival radio for very limited comms.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I have always gotten the strong impression of "cowboy" for some reason when around 7th Group guys, and I liked it. If you strolled from the 7th Group Compound at Bragg, over to 3rd Group, the atmosphere contrast was beyond palpable, without even meeting anyone.

There was definitely a different vibe and that had to do with the then current command structure/climate.

That was before they moved them to Florida, which was pretty recent. I meant to ask whichever was the CIF down in Panama for SOUTHCOM. Couldn't remember if it was C/1/7, or C/3/7, but 3/7 sounds more like it now. One of my BNCOC instructors was from 7th's CIF, a Latino guy who was very passionate about CQB. The 1SG at the time was one of the guys whose team became "famous" for the hide site compromise in Iraq in Desert Storm/1991, where they were saved by the F-16 after blowing their primary radio systems, and had to use the survival radio for very limited comms.

Yeah, I know Jim C., he used to tell that story to SFAS candidates and Q course student as professional development.