Opinions on building a "different" LR rifle

[alpine44]

After messing with gas guns for the last few years, I feel the need for a LR bolt gun.

Rather than going the proven R700/GAP/UsualSuspects route, I would like to try something off the beaten path.

How about taking a Sauer 200/202/STR barreled action in 6.5x55 Mauser and building a tube gun chassis for it?

The receiver sits in a tube that extends to the back as the stock back bone. Recoil pad and cheek rest are attached to this tube. (Google 'Gary Eliseo tube gun' for the basic idea).

Below the receiver area sits a pistol grip with the DBM well. Trigger group will be original Sauer in the first version.

Since the Sauer action features a clamped barrel with integral extension, I would like to attach a carbon hand guard and scope rail directly to the barrel, so that the barrel group can be removed and re-attached without any chance of loosing zero. The clamping bolts will be accessible without having to remove anything else first and the tab holding the stock on the original gun will be modified to facilitate barrel removal without having to take the middle screw out. The goal is to simply loosen 3 screws to take the gun apart for transport. This way, I can keep the barrel long and still get the rifle in a small trunk.

With SAAMI loads of 55kPSI the 6.5x55 Mauser should get a 140gr Amax to at least 1300 yards. A little more if I trust the action to take the 60kPSI of modern cartridges. 6.5-06 or 6.5-284 would be other candidates but I have to check about magazines for those. Magazines in 6.5x55 Mauser are common but pricey. In any case, barrel life will be on the short side but barrel swap will be easy

What do you guys think?

Does something like this already exists?

 

[djskit]

Anything that will lob a 6.5 140 grain bullet over 2800 fps at less than 1/2 MOA is a winner. No reason that set up wouldn't work.

 

[Recreational Shooter WA]

I've enjoyed the 6.5x55 that I have. It's a very light recoiling caliber for how much it can offer. And having the option to buy Lapua brass is always a plus.

 

[alpine44]

Had another idea before falling asleep last night.

I have a Mauser M96 straight pull kicking around that I did not shoot in years. It also has a clamped barrel with extension and even better, the bolt can be removed to the front of the receiver, which means I do not have to make provisions for separating the tube behind the receiver section.

The barrel is chambered in .270 Rem for which no high BC bullets exist. But I could prove the basic concept with the existing components and then change the barrel later. The extension will unscrew from the existing barrel.

Attached is a pic of a crude mock up. Receiver and bolt laying below the gun will be inside of the silver tube. The rectangular clamping piece laying below the receiver will be integrated into the 'bottom metal'. Carbon handguard will be longer of course and the scope rail beefier and rigidly attached to the barrel. The rear silver tube will be made out of carbon to match the handguard.

What I really like is that the ergonomics will be virtually identical to my AR15 DMR.

How is that for a simple and fast bolt gun?

PS: In the mock-up, the pistol grip ended up too high. Putting it in the right place will allow the use of an AR15 style safety lever to move the safety parts on the Mauser trigger group. That brings the ergonomics very, very close to the platform that I shoot most (AR15). The only difference will be grabbing the bolt handle between shots.

 

[alpine44]

I've enjoyed the 6.5x55 that I have. It's a very light recoiling caliber for how much it can offer. And having the option to buy Lapua brass is always a plus.

Carried a sporterized Swedish Mauser for years while hunting Red Stag and Chamois in the Alps and loved it. I am glad that the New World has finally discovered the value of the long, skinny 6.5mm bullets. They fly very well and still put some hurt downrange. Even wild boar dropped like hit with a hammer using the heavy Nosler Partition bullets.

 

[jashmore1234]

After messing with gas guns for the last few years, I feel the need for a LR bolt gun.

Rather than going the proven R700/GAP/UsualSuspects route, I would like to try something off the beaten path.

My question would be why do you want to get off the beaten path. Sometimes folks who don't know the woods, get lost when they get off the path and their fun day in the woods turns tragic.

The odds are that you will end up with something that does not perform as well as the usual suspects and will end up sitting in the safe because rifles off the beaten path can be difficult to sell once you decide to sell them to purchase something that is reliable and repeatable.

If you want to go off the beaten path, knock yourself out, but please start a build thread that will serve to educate us to something different or that will serve as a cautionary tale as to why folks should not wander aimlessly in the wilderness of gunsmithery.

 

[alpine44]

My question would be why do you want to get off the beaten path. Sometimes folks who don't know the woods, get lost when they get off the path and their fun day in the woods turns tragic.

The odds are that you will end up with something that does not perform as well as the usual suspects and will end up sitting in the safe because rifles off the beaten path can be difficult to sell once you decide to sell them to purchase something that is reliable and repeatable.

If you want to go off the beaten path, knock yourself out, but please start a build thread that will serve to educate us to something different or that will serve as a cautionary tale as to why folks should not wander aimlessly in the wilderness of gunsmithery.

Thanks for the cautionary words.

I am an engineer. I like to solve problems and when problems do not knock on my door, I look for them. Finding new ways to skin the cat is my "raison d'être". I also subscribe to the "no pain, no gain" school of thought.

Best case, I end up with something better than what I could have bought for a ton of cash. Worse case, I have learned a lot, will surrender to building a plain Jane R700 clone and the donor action will go back into the safe where it already collected dust for the last 10 years. I see no downside here.

As far as the wilderness aspect is concerned, I wandered through the Alaskan bush twice with home build guns and not only came back but gained weight (muscle) while relying on my gunsmithery. Compared to the medical life support devices I design for a living, guns are of 'agricultural' complexity. You cannot do stupid things when dealing with 60+ kPSI but keep in mind that I am using the pressure containing components from a proven (and actually proof-tested) product.

What I am trying to do is not even innovative. It is just another spin on already proven ideas like tube guns (Tubb, Eliseo, et al.), bolt locking in barrel extension (Stoner, Mauser, Blaser, SIG/SAUER, et al.) and scope attached to barrel (Mauser, Blaser, et al.).

And yes, there will be a build thread unless someone points out a compelling technical reason for not proceeding.

PS: You need to take a look at what ideas the bench rest folks come up with to realize how deeply we are stuck in military tradition with our tactical rifles. If .mil small arms are supposed to reflect state-of-the-art, then why did it take a photographer (Ronnie Barrett) to create another use case for the 50 BMG round? IMO, Uncle Sugar buys and fields the lowest risk technology offered by the big manufacturers and everything new in the small arms world comes from the garages or shops of folks who like to tinker. The more folks tinker, the higher the chance of finding better ways. Please keep tinkering.

 

[alpine44]

Who makes DBMs for 6.5x55 Mauser or 6.5-06 cartridges? Double stack if possible.

 

[alpine44]

Carbon tube for rear is available in exactly the right dimensions (36mm OD x 34mm ID). That will fit the receiver like a glove and create the correct distance for the trigger group.

A Lancer 14" handguard will work out of the box for the front on a threaded barrel shank or via a spacer for the 1st prototype.

If I can get some leads on DBMs for 6.5x55 or 6.5-06, I could start designing and milling the bottom metal (or bottom Delrin).

Someone please talk me out of this before it is too late !!!!

 

[steve123]

The DBM...Most guys use any long action DBM commonly available which take AI 300WM mags, then they bend the feed lips to make the mags feed other cartridges. These are mostly for M700's and clones.

Go for it, I like the concept of what you are doing. I run a MAK tube gun kit for M700 in 6x47L. The action is screwed and glued into a aluminum sleeve. That way I don't have to use a recoil lug which has worked out fantastic! I have 3 barrels made up for it for different purposes, one in 20x47L for varmints.

I have dreamed of seeing another kind of project. A bolt action that is the chassis itself, made of titanium with ball bearings that the bolt rides on, that takes AR hand guards, grips and rear stocks and also compatible with AI mags and M700 aftermarket triggers. All set up for quick change barrel system, removable floating bolt head to facilitate 223, 308 and 300wm bolt heads. It would the ultimate!

 

[Massoud]

I'm interested in your project and encourage you to keep going. The Sauer action might give you fits with the way it's made but there may be ways to leverage the "uni-block" design into a tube gun. The Mauser definitely looks like the easier candidate. Keep us updated on your progress,
Justin

 

[alpine44]

I'm interested in your project and encourage you to keep going. The Sauer action might give you fits with the way it's made but there may be ways to leverage the "uni-block" design into a tube gun. The Mauser definitely looks like the easier candidate. Keep us updated on your progress,
Justin

Yes, I am glad remembering the Mauser in the corner of my safe. The action is a simple cylinder that lends itself nicely to a tube gun.

The original M96 straight pull would be a very fast rifle if you would not bang the end of the bolt in your face while staying behind the scope. The bolt flies back an forth like on butter without canting, binding, or getting your fingers caught somewhere.

If I can find a suitable DBM, the project will be a go.

 

[alpine44]

The DBM...Most guys use any long action DBM commonly available which take AI 300WM mags, then they bend the feed lips to make the mags feed other cartridges. These are mostly for M700's and clones.

Go for it, I like the concept of what you are doing. I run a MAK tube gun kit for M700 in 6x47L. The action is screwed and glued into a aluminum sleeve. That way I don't have to use a recoil lug which has worked out fantastic! I have 3 barrels made up for it for different purposes, one in 20x47L for varmints.

I have dreamed of seeing another kind of project. A bolt action that is the chassis itself, made of titanium with ball bearings that the bolt rides on, that takes AR hand guards, grips and rear stocks and also compatible with AI mags and M700 aftermarket triggers. All set up for quick change barrel system, removable floating bolt head to facilitate 223, 308 and 300wm bolt heads. It would the ultimate!

I had toyed with the idea of removing the gas key from an AR10 bolt carrier, sticking it in a tube (with cutouts for the cam pin) and putting a bolt handle on it. I got stuck with how to clamp the barrel extension elegantly but the Mauser just gave me some new ideas. If you have machining capabilities to pursue that route, let's PM.

I am going to start with the Mauser straight pull action because it is already paid for and taking up space but I doubt that I will stop there if it works in principle. I have gotten so used to grabbing a tubular forearm, pointing at the target while rotating the safety off that a traditional bolt gun feels awkward and clumsy. And that is before even working the bolt. Unfortunately, the gassers take second place in the accuracy department. Maybe there is a way to fill that gap between these two worlds.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

I had toyed with the idea of removing the gas key from an AR10 bolt carrier, sticking it in a tube (with cutouts for the cam pin) and putting a bolt handle on it. I got stuck with how to clamp the barrel extension elegantly but the Mauser just gave me some new ideas. If you have machining capabilities to pursue that route, let's PM.

I am going to start with the Mauser straight pull action because it is already paid for and taking up space but I doubt that I will stop there if it works in principle. I have gotten so used to grabbing a tubular forearm, pointing at the target while rotating the safety off that a traditional bolt gun feels awkward and clumsy. And that is before even working the bolt. Unfortunately, the gassers take second place in the accuracy department. Maybe there is a way to fill that gap between these two worlds.

Straight pull AR10 bolt guns have already been done. This is a spring assisted concept, but it might give you some ideas. Thought I would share.

Riverman Gun Works Custom Rifles and Keymod Parts & Accesories

-VB

 

[alpine44]

Straight pull AR10 bolt guns have already been done. This is a spring assisted concept, but it might give you some ideas. Thought I would share.

Riverman Gun Works Custom Rifles and Keymod Parts & Accesories

-VB

Thanks for the link. Much appreciated.