Rifle Scopes Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

[sniperpeach]

Hello, i am new to the site and im in the market for the leupold mark 4 LRT M3 scope. The same one that is issued with the m24 SWS. Overall is the scope pretty good quality and is it pretty accurate as far as long shots go? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

IMO the best scope Leupold ever made.

 

[WyoRanchHand]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

Forget the Leupy. There are better cheaper scopes out there. Research!

 

[dmg308]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyoRanchHand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget the Leupy. There are better cheaper scopes out there. Research! </div></div>

What is better and cheaper? I hope not a SSHD? Lowlight did some good testing and so far its holding in but nothing beats time in the field to reveal shortcomings. That appears to have the makings of a good scope but its been out less then a year. The M3 on the other hand has been used by the Army and Marines for quite some time and is a proven combat optic.Leupold doesn't get much love here and other then Hunting glass I have no use for any scope but the m3 and not the varible rebagged varix 3 disasters.
No the m3 is not the latest and greatest but it has allowed the introduction of alot of bad guys to their creator.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

As long as you would be happy with 1 moa elevation adjustments, its a great scope. I have the pre mk4 model and love every thing about it but that. Its clear, tracks, clicks are great.

 

[Turk]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyoRanchHand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget the Leupy. There are better cheaper scopes out there. Research! </div></div>
Yes, and try to do some research other then the internet!

 

[Rntobey]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

m3 works for me.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

Fixed power MK4's are the only Leupy's I like.

As far as M3 knobs go, if you want a zero stop and single turn they are the way to go. Your zero will be within 1/2moa of where you want it with 1 moa aadjustment.

 

[ponchair]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

I loved mine, but I prefer the M2.

 

[WyoRanchHand]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO the best scope Leupold ever made. </div></div>

Best for what?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The M3 on the other hand has been <span style="color: #FF0000">used by the Army and Marines</span> for quite some time and is a proven combat optic.</div></div>

So it has to be the best right? And proven to be what? The most reliable? What? Sherman tanks were proven. Should it still be on the front lines?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No the m3 is not the latest and greatest but it has allowed the introduction of alot of bad guys to their creator. </div></div>

Get rid of your optics boys. Iron sights have been used to send a lot more "bad guys to their creator" than optics ever have.

sniper_peach (sniper308), How set are you on the Leupold? If you are serious about spending that kind of money on that scope you should really consider spending a little more for a NF. MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA will make your life much easier. Reliability is much better. Sure Leupold had great customer service. You may need it.

Or you could just buy a Counter Sniper and be done with it!

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

are countersniper optics good? i dont recall hearing about them.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper_peach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are countersniper optics good? i dont recall hearing about them. </div></div>

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

ok

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper_peach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok </div></div>

woo, that was a close one

 

[ponchair]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

Niles Coyote...I think he got the point

Nightforce all the way.

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

well the m3 i hear is great scope.....but the mil based turrets are interesting.....if only i could figure out how to range estimate with the mil turrets then id look more into them.

 

[Turk]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

If you'd like to know "best for what"; perhaps you should familiarize yourself w/ the purpose in mind of building that particular scope! As far as ruggedness and reliability, that scope doesn't give up anything to it's competitors! While we value your opinion; unfortunately it is heresey; which contributes to "internet research"!I believe dmg stated that the Marines and Army uses them; he didn't state they were the "best" because they used them. And your counterpoint could be used against NF, as I am sure that you are aware of their use in the military. Does that make them the best? This thread didn't get started to see who is the "best"?????

 

[WyoRanchHand]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you'd like to know "best for what"; perhaps you should familiarize yourself w/ the purpose in mind of building that particular scope! As far as ruggedness and reliability, that scope doesn't give up anything to it's competitors! While we value your opinion; unfortunately it is heresey; which contributes to "internet research"! </div></div>

Exactly. It was intended specific role. What are the OP's actual requirements? Did he ever state his needs. And while it may be the best(only?) scope in that role you can't label it as "the best." As far as ruggedness and reliability...if you say so. Fortunately Leupold isn't trying to compete with Nightforce.

He asked for opinions. He got one.

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

hmm i give up...been trying also to get good info for range estimation using the mil turrets but cant find anything...moa and mil i understand...but mil/mil i dont. Maybe someone can help.....

IF i sight in weapon for 100 yards and i see target A at unk distance...using mil dot reticle and MIL turrets how do i range estimate and then how do i input that value to the turrets?

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

my actual requirements are to hit general sized targets. General being animal or similar sized target i guess you could say.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=378812#Post378812

inside your answer waits...

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

Height of Target (inches) x 27.78 = Distance (yards)
mils

right but heres my question if target A is at 648 yards....and rifle is zerod at 100 yards and the scope is using mil rad turrets.....how do i put 648 yards into the elevation mil rad turret?

 

[WyoRanchHand]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

sniper peach, I think you decided on a scope before you decided what you needed in a scope. Are you merely wanting to copy the M24 system? If so, then by all means get yourself the M3. Do you want whats best for your needs? Then start over. Base you choice on your needs not what the fanboys think is the best.

Niles Coyote, +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 on the link.

ETA: sniper peach, after reading your previous post I have no doubt that you have no idea what you need.

 

[Turk]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

You are absolutely correct comparing variable power scopes.NF rules at least untill Leupold comes out w/ their new one! But the straight power Mark4's are in a class of their own! You are right; the OP asked for an opinion, and we all know how that is!

If you'd like I can pm you w/ a very well known base and ring manufacturer who is a lot more knowledgable about that scope? He actually has blueprints to it; he can go into detail why he feels that scope is rugged and reliable and is great at putting meat on the table!

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

i hear a lot about mil rad based turrets and how there becoming more popular and i hear there easy and great to use. I asked for thoughts on the m3 because ive used it a little and wanted peoples opinions thats all. No im not trying to copy the m24 or its components.

 

[WyoRanchHand]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But the straight power Mark4's are in a class of their own!</div></div>

I will concede your point on the straight power MK4's.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you'd like I can pm you w/ a very well known base and ring manufacturer who is a lot more knowledgable about that scope? He actually has blueprints to it; he can go into detail why he feels that scope is rugged and reliable and is great at putting meat on the table! </div></div>

It would be very interesting. Please do.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

Anymore it seems that on this site the discussion of scopes is a lot like doggin' on another mans sports team. I have a Mk4 M3. Bought it 3/6/00 for $922.24 from Grandpas Hardware store in Clarksville, TN. I was stationed at Ft. Campbell at the time. My only issue now is that i'd like M2 knobs. I've also thought about going to mils as well, but I don't really need to. I'm not an operator, and i'm usually fairly ok at judging the amount of adjustment necessary in MOA after seeing my round splash.

A lot of folks are nut swingin' on the NightForces, others on USO's, S&B's, Zeiss, IOR's, ect... Most any scope over $1k is a good scope. You are not likely to really notice any difference in glass unless you are REALLLY looking closely. If you like the Leup, go with it, don't worry about what others think about it. The best is what you like the most. What has the features you want, for the price you can afford. That doesn't mean that packing a ton of features into a small pricetag is a stellar deal.

When I get asked by newer shooting folks that are wanting to take the next step in the world of minute of squirrel over the old minute of deer body, I tell them to spend at least close to, over over $1K on glass, and stick with the bigger names.

I try not to start doggin' on brands, it's pointless and comes off looking like the old retarded argument of Ford vs. Chevy. I have a Leup, and i'll stay with Leup. Never had a problem. I talked about going to a NF with a KCPD SWAT Sniper and he told me to stick with Leup. He said NF's were fine, but he knows more people with Leup's than NF's. A buddie has a NF, it's a nice scope, good clear glass, but I don't like the reticule, and the turrets feel the same as my Leup. The glass looks the same to me, but like I said before, i'm not going to bother looking that close. As long as I can see my target clearly, and focus it, that's good enough for me. Incidently, the USO SN-3 3.5-17 that I looked through......glass looked the same...didn't like the reticule.

So you see the pattern here? Get what YOU like. Don't get this, or that because Joe Lunchbox says it's the greatest thing since boobs. Use the search button, visit the stores and look through the scopes and first impressions matter. Think long and hard about features. What do you need, vs what would be cool to have. Things that are "cool to have" tend to become "how do I get rid of this" later on down the road. A good example: My ballistic PDA..cool to have...becoming a pain. Trajectory card printed and para-corded to my scope works just as well, and is actually faster. I should have paid attention to all the posts of the veterans sharing their time and money saving wisdom.

Sorry about the long winded post, I sincerely hope you got the generally idea of what i'm saying. The whole "don't buy brand x when you really should buy brand y" get's really annoying. You're a big boy, read a lot, and buy only once. Because if you have to keep buying, it becomes like alimony payments, you just keep making them, and they never get any cheaper.

Branden

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper_peach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hmm i give up...been trying also to get good info for range estimation using the mil turrets but cant find anything...moa and mil i understand...but mil/mil i dont. Maybe someone can help.....

IF i sight in weapon for 100 yards and i see target A at unk distance...using mil dot reticle and MIL turrets how do i range estimate and then how do i input that value to the turrets? </div></div>

Once you calculate the distance to your target using the mil reticule, you then refer to your handy dandy dope chart that you've made through sending a lot of ammo downrange learning how to shoot the rifle, or you could just cheat and go to JBM. You go to the range, or close to it (648 yard, use a median point between 600, and 700 unless you go in 50y increments). Using that data you dial in your elevation correction on the turrets. If you need say 7.8 mils of elevation (just an example), you dial your elevation turret to 7.8 mils, and hold dead on. I'm excluding wind for this example BTW.

Sniper_peach, I think right now you need to start doing a lot of reading, nothing wrong with that, i'm not trying to insult you. But there is a old saying to talk half as much as you listen. Well, let's modify that to read twice as much as you type questions about. This forum has a immense amount of information on it. We all started where you are at some point. And we got to this level of knowledge through reading, reading, and more reading. We are quite advanced in our evolution as humans, and the things that all of us on this site want to do have been done again, and again, and perfected, and then many books have been written to tell others how to do it right quicker!

When it comes to the equipment you want to use, read and use search. If it comes down to interpreting load development, shot groups, DIY project questions on something radical, asking Alpha6164 for the phone numbers of his hot ex's then start a thread and ask away.

BTW, PM's are you friend as well. An easy way to ask a question that you think is a "dumb" question.

Branden

(I think i'm riding that border between helpful poster, and keyboard commando.)

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

Well thank you to everyone who responded....i did the research and have all the information i need and i have a very good understanding of the mil/mil system. So when i get a scope i will let people know. Thanks again for all advice.

 

[gol1]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

this scope gives 1 moa per click its a bit too much for precision shooting scope but it was designed as a sniper rifle scope for combat snipers to ranges of up to 1000 meter and if you learn your bullet drop at each distance it can be used as a hunting or steel knocker with very very good results its not as glamour as S&B USO or PH but it's clear the tracking is very good and at least as durable as any of them so put it on you Remington 700 it's a match made for the worst of the battlefields and stood them all.
You can get rings from leupold to match any bullet and speed combination you like or just learn your ammo drop from your rifle by heart and you are more then good to go

Good luck

 

[dmg308]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyoRanchHand</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO the best scope Leupold ever made. </div></div>

Best for what?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The M3 on the other hand has been <span style="color: #FF0000">used by the Army and Marines</span> for quite some time and is a proven combat optic.</div></div>

So it has to be the best right? And proven to be what? The most reliable? What? Sherman tanks were proven. Should it still be on the front lines?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No the m3 is not the latest and greatest but it has allowed the introduction of alot of bad guys to their creator. </div></div>

Get rid of your optics boys. Iron sights have been used to send a lot more "bad guys to their creator" than optics ever have.

sniper_peach (sniper308), How set are you on the Leupold? If you are serious about spending that kind of money on that scope you should really consider spending a little more for a NF. MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA will make your life much easier. Reliability is much better. Sure Leupold had great customer service. You may need it.

Or you could just buy a Counter Sniper and be done with it!

</div></div>


Best for what?...Never said best for anything other then the best they had ever made.

I dont belive there is a best anything not because any military or other uses it.But for a scope to have survived this long in inventory says something about its capability.

Can you please provide statistics that more M3s 10xs percentage wise have failed then NFs.If not how can you make such a statement.

MIl/MIl or MOA/MOA is nice but with a BDC not nearly as important.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyoRanchHand</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you'd like to know "best for what"; perhaps you should familiarize yourself w/ the purpose in mind of building that particular scope! As far as ruggedness and reliability, that scope doesn't give up anything to it's competitors! While we value your opinion; unfortunately it is heresey; which contributes to "internet research"! </div></div>

Exactly. It was intended specific role. What are the OP's actual requirements? Did he ever state his needs. And while it may be the best(only?) scope in that role you can't label it as "the best." As far as ruggedness and reliability...if you say so. Fortunately Leupold isn't trying to compete with Nightforce.

He asked for opinions. He got one. </div></div>

And the opinion he asked for was specificaly the quality and abitlities of the M3 he did not solicate other options.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyoRanchHand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sniper peach, I think you decided on a scope before you decided what you needed in a scope. Are you merely wanting to copy the M24 system? If so, then by all means get yourself the M3. Do you want whats best for your needs? Then start over. Base you choice on your needs not what the fanboys think is the best.

Niles Coyote, +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 on the link.

ETA: sniper peach, after reading your previous post I have no doubt that you have no idea what you need. </div></div>


Fanboy really??? Did I not say they make one tactical scope that was up to snuff and the rest is not? If any one could be labeled fan boy its your blanket statement the NF is across the board better option.Again in your words not knowing his needs.

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

Well ill clear up some stuff. When i started this thread i just wanted to hear what people had to say about the scope thats all. At the same time i DID not know what i need... and WyoRanchHand you are 100% correct. But after consulting with some people on emails and on the phone and thank you to those that have helped...i can say i do know what i need. And that is this.

Good quality on manufacturing

Good quality on the glass and the lens coatings

Good tracking ability

Good warranty

Be either Mil dot or TMR reticle

Illuminated or non illuminated..no preference

Turrets to be Mil rad based (did the research and mil rad turrets i find to be better)

FFP or SFP I have heard and read about ups and downs for both reticles. ( after talking to people the FFP may cost a little more but overally can be better)

my budget is up to 1600 for the scope and i have a rifle being built so when im satisfied a scope meets my requirements then i will buy it.

Also for the record...liberty optics has this nice scope and from what i can see...it fits the bill
http://www.libertyoptics.com/index1...=otherurl.html&url=http://www.snipershide.com

its the IOR Valdada scope designed by snipers hide GEN 4

So hope this clears the air a little.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

Glad you got what you needed.No air needed clearing we all just post our views its up to you to get what you need from it.

 

[sniperpeach]

Re: Opinions on Mk4 M3 Scope

Well about a day ago i bought the leupold mark 4 m3 fixed 10X scope. It should be here in a couple days. The scope will have NF steel 30mm low rings and NF 2 piece 20 MOA base. So all in all im very happy with my decision. True it dont have mil based turrets but at the same time the MOA based turrets is what im used to. The only thing thats not really a big issue but is something ill have to mess with is the 20 MOA base and to see how easy or hard it will be to sight in the rifle at 100 yards...but also the caliber is 300 win mag so that in itself will be a little different. But cant wait to get it.