Optic advice for 22” 6.5 Creedmoor build

[jumrobe]

Looking for some advice/help on which direction to go on an optic for a 6.5 Creedmoor gas gun I’m putting together. This gun is going to be for shooting small groups and steel out to 1200 in matches.

I’ve got an SLR receiver set and a 22” Bartlein, rifle +3 barrel on order from Craddock. I’ve got a pretty good wait on the barrel so it gives me time to really dial in other aspects of the gun. Right now my focus is on the glass.

When first putting my build list together I was targeting either a XTRIIIi 3.3-18x50 or a DMRIII 3.5-21x50. After reading around and doing some research, I’m leaning towards needing more glass so I don’t need to use to top of the magnification range at extended distances.

Budget for glass is a firm $2000. Optics I’m currently considering are the Athlon Cronus BTR Gen2 4.5-29x56FFP, Trijicon Tenmile 4.5-30x56FFP, Razor Gen II 4.5-27, XTRIIIi 5.5-30x56.

Am I on the right track with these optics? Are they any you all would recommend that fit this use case?

 

[diggler1833]

"Small groups" will have you wanting more than 21x top end. I noticed that when I was doing load development for my two 6.5x47s. One has a DMR2, the other an XTR III 5.5-30. It is not that you can't shoot 21x as well as 30x...just that you can resolve your aiming point a little better and spread that concentration to other fundamentals a little more. Shooting steel at distances only out to 1,200 though, I don't think you'd care a whole lot about that top end difference.

I own a Tenmile 4.5-30, XTR III 5.5-30, and XTR Pro (in for warranty). Glass on the Tenmile and XTR III is very comparable, with the XTR Pro just a couple percentage points ahead. I prefer the turrets on my XTR III over my Tenmile, but my XTR III has an overly stiff magnification ring - which I hear they addressed on the newer ones. If you qualify for .mil or LEO discounts, there are avenues where it would bring the XTR Pro and T6Xi down into your price point.

I just went through the "$2K budget for glass" search myself a few months ago. You'll also get a lot of (good) recommendations on the LRP S3, or perhaps a lightly used Razor Gen 3 if you can find one.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Buy a used kahles 525i . You can get em for 2k sometimes and it will be the best bang for your buck and not near as heavy as a G3. A used 624 kahles is also a great option and can be had for under 2k on the px. Pick a reticle you like and get you one

 

[Fret]

Some info here:

Riflescopes: Under $2000 » OpticsThoughts

 

[longshot2000]

My thoughts might be in the minority, but if you are doing such a great job on the barrel, you need a scope that matches the rifle. Burris, Athlon and other brands mentioned will leaving wishing for more. There are so many good scopes and so many opinions. I like to use what I refer to as the Traders Joes approach. Pick 3 and then compare. Trader Joes typically has no more than 3 choices. 5 or 6 and you get into anylsis paralysis.

For the 6.5 CM with a match barrel, you are typically looking for accuracy at 800 to 1,300 yards. While a 20x scope can serve you well, I think 25x is much better, and 35x is too much scope - both in terms of weight and price.

When price is an issue, but not a huge issue, I tend to look at Nightforce NX8, or maybe ATACR. Leupold Mark 5HD is hard to beat, but illumination comes at an unusually high cost option. I like illumination, but it is interesting that the US Army snipers are now using Leupold Mark 5HD and ATACR in the 5-25x and 7-35x without illumination. Some of this might be due to the fact that they have access to night vision if they need it, but day scope really does not need illumination. Most of us have just come accustomed to it. Leupold Razor is on most people's list, but I tend to favor it in lower magnifactions, and the super high, like the 6-36x (which is worth considering). Schmidt and Bender is mostly out of your price range, but some more basic configurations have modest price tags with 5-25x on the PM-II. ZCO is preverbial favorite at 5-27x, which is perfect magnification and well built scope, but highter budger.

You mentioned matches at 1,200 yards, and I really struggle with a price cap at $2,000. If that were a constaint, my vote would be for a Leupold Mark 5HD in 5-25x, with the NX8 in 4-32x in second place. If you can stretch the budget the NF ATACR in 5-25x, the ZCO in 5-27x and the Razor in 6-36x is well worth considering.

Others have mentioned used scopes. That is clearly an option. We do some trade-ins on select models, and when you are buying someone's used Kahles or Schmidt & Bender, etc., it is has been well cared for and you will not notice it being used, like you might with a Bushnell or Burris.

Good luck.

 

[FuhQ]

Contact @Euro.Connor and see what kind of price he can get you a brand new current generation Kahles K624i for...

Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

FREE SHIPPING on Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

www.eurooptic.com

 

[4O6shootist]

Contact @Euro.Connor and see what kind of price he can get you a brand new current generation Kahles K624i for...

Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

FREE SHIPPING on Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

www.eurooptic.com

You know, you don't see a lot of these for sale in the px anymore. I have a few with skmr1 reticle, and I love them for a long range hunting scope. The glass is a bit lacking compared to all the newer high end stuff, but still totally serviceable. Kahles turrets are excellent, all their exterior features are, lsw smooth illumination, parallax and mag rings, and the 624i has better field of view than a lot of the 5-25 scopes on the market. Eyebox and depth of field are very forgiving with the long body and 4x erector.

 

[FuhQ]

You know, you don't see a lot of these for sale in the px anymore. I have a few with skmr1 reticle, and I love them for a long range hunting scope. The glass is a bit lacking compared to all the newer high end stuff, but still totally serviceable. Kahles turrets are excellent, all their exterior features are, lsw smooth illumination, parallax and mag rings, and the 624i has better field of view than a lot of the 5-25 scopes on the market. Eyebox and depth of field are very forgiving with the long body and 4x erector.

You should check out the newest Generation of K624i... It has the exact same glass and internals and mechanicals as the new K525i according to the Kahles rep that I talked to last year. The only difference is the lens magnifications. That's what sold me on getting a couple of them, when I was debating on going K624i or K525i... Because I bought 2 at once, I got a big discount, so, for the price I got my 2x K624's at, there was no way I could justify the extra on a K525i.

And as you are saying, the turrets are amazing on them, and so is the smooth illumination, which is perfect for running a NV or thermal clip-on, because you can really dial it in perfectly compared to pre-set notches, that way you don't get any washout in the image. The parallax on my 3 K-series scopes is as close to dead-ass on, as any other scope I've ever owned. The mechanicals are super smooth. And like you said, the FOV, EB, and DOF is exceptional, as well.

 

[jumrobe]

You should check out the newest Generation of K624i... It has the exact same glass and internals and mechanicals as the new K525i according to the Kahles rep that I talked to last year. The only difference is the lens magnifications. That's what sold me on getting a couple of them, when I was debating on going K624i or K525i... Because I bought 2 at once, I got a big discount, so, for the price I got my 2x K624's at, there was no way I could justify the extra on a K525i.

And as you are saying, the turrets are amazing on them, and so is the smooth illumination, which is perfect for running a NV or thermal clip-on, because you can really dial it in perfectly compared to pre-set notches, that way you don't get any washout in the image. The parallax on my 3 K-series scopes is as close to dead-ass on, as any other scope I've ever owned. The mechanicals are super smooth. And like you said, the FOV, EB, and DOF is exceptional, as well.

How is the glass on the latest 624i? I’ve read all manner of things about them trying to justify the spend.

 

[FuhQ]

How is the glass on the latest 624i? I’ve read all manner of things about them trying to justify the spend.

The glass is just as nice as my newest gen k318i, clearer than my Zeiss LRP S3, noticeably better than my 2023 production ATACR F1 5-25x56, and right there with my black Razor Gen3. They are worth the price tag.

 

[River44]

I’m doing something similar and went with the ATACR 7-35

 

[jumrobe]

"Small groups" will have you wanting more than 21x top end. I noticed that when I was doing load development for my two 6.5x47s. One has a DMR2, the other an XTR III 5.5-30. It is not that you can't shoot 21x as well as 30x...just that you can resolve your aiming point a little better and spread that concentration to other fundamentals a little more. Shooting steel at distances only out to 1,200 though, I don't think you'd care a whole lot about that top end difference.

I own a Tenmile 4.5-30, XTR III 5.5-30, and XTR Pro (in for warranty). Glass on the Tenmile and XTR III is very comparable, with the XTR Pro just a couple percentage points ahead. I prefer the turrets on my XTR III over my Tenmile, but my XTR III has an overly stiff magnification ring - which I hear they addressed on the newer ones. If you qualify for .mil or LEO discounts, there are avenues where it would bring the XTR Pro and T6Xi down into your price point.

I just went through the "$2K budget for glass" search myself a few months ago. You'll also get a lot of (good) recommendations on the LRP S3, or perhaps a lightly used Razor Gen 3 if you can find one.

This is pretty much why I landed on wanting more top end than the DMR3 offers.

The S3 is very appealing, I just struggle to see why I would need a scope with that much travel for a centerfire gun. A little miffed I missed the 25% off promo that ran at the end of last year to get it into the $1850 range.

My thoughts might be in the minority, but if you are doing such a great job on the barrel, you need a scope that matches the rifle. Burris, Athlon and other brands mentioned will leaving wishing for more. There are so many good scopes and so many opinions. I like to use what I refer to as the Traders Joes approach. Pick 3 and then compare. Trader Joes typically has no more than 3 choices. 5 or 6 and you get into anylsis paralysis.

For the 6.5 CM with a match barrel, you are typically looking for accuracy at 800 to 1,300 yards. While a 20x scope can serve you well, I think 25x is much better, and 35x is too much scope - both in terms of weight and price.

When price is an issue, but not a huge issue, I tend to look at Nightforce NX8, or maybe ATACR. Leupold Mark 5HD is hard to beat, but illumination comes at an unusually high cost option. I like illumination, but it is interesting that the US Army snipers are now using Leupold Mark 5HD and ATACR in the 5-25x and 7-35x without illumination. Some of this might be due to the fact that they have access to night vision if they need it, but day scope really does not need illumination. Most of us have just come accustomed to it. Leupold Razor is on most people's list, but I tend to favor it in lower magnifactions, and the super high, like the 6-36x (which is worth considering). Schmidt and Bender is mostly out of your price range, but some more basic configurations have modest price tags with 5-25x on the PM-II. ZCO is preverbial favorite at 5-27x, which is perfect magnification and well built scope, but highter budger.

You mentioned matches at 1,200 yards, and I really struggle with a price cap at $2,000. If that were a constaint, my vote would be for a Leupold Mark 5HD in 5-25x, with the NX8 in 4-32x in second place. If you can stretch the budget the NF ATACR in 5-25x, the ZCO in 5-27x and the Razor in 6-36x is well worth considering.

Others have mentioned used scopes. That is clearly an option. We do some trade-ins on select models, and when you are buying someone's used Kahles or Schmidt & Bender, etc., it is has been well cared for and you will not notice it being used, like you might with a Bushnell or Burris.

Good luck.

I appreciate the input and that it’s not just feeding me confirmation bias on what others have said.

After looking at it again, I can stretch the budget beyond $2k to put a fitting scope on this rifle. I also agree with your comment that 20x is good, 25-30x would be better, but 35x is probably too much.

The best glass I have owned is a Burris XTRIIIi 3.3-18 and I think it’s amazing coming from a Viper PSTII 3-15 and a trijicon Credo 2-10x36.

Where I struggle is not knowing what an extra $1k is actually getting me. I know all of the scopes in these price brackets are ‘good’ but it’s hard to quantify how much better something is that is an extra 30% over the original budget compared to what is available at my original budget number.

 

[nickw]

Order a scope(s) you’re considering from a reputable dealer that has an excellent return policy. Evaluate the scope(s) (don’t mount it) and return or keep. Cost you a few $ if you return, but now you get to see how they look to your eye and be comfortable with your choice. Good luck.

 

[diggler1833]

^ And the dealer has to sell an "open box" item at a reduction of profit. Nobody else should have to pay for you to make up your mind.

Maybe you go to a match and ask politely to look through the scopes of several friendly dudes. You could possibly also get a feel for how they'd look through if they were mounted. And nobody loses money.

 

[jumrobe]

To update this thread. I ended up getting a Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56 ZR MRi. Shoutout to @Spartan Precision Arms for working with me on the purchase

Got it mounted in a Griffin GPM 15 MOA mount.

 

[b6graham]

good scope choice. mount is meh

 

[diggler1833]

Hope the optic works out well for you. I may check one out someday myself.

 

[FuhQ]

To update this thread. I ended up getting a Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56 ZR MRi. Shoutout to @Spartan Precision Arms for working with me on the purchase

Got it mounted in a Griffin GPM 15 MOA mount.

Excellent choice! You'll love it. They're great scopes.

 

[FuhQ]

Hope the optic works out well for you. I may check one out someday myself.

You should, make sure it's at a store that will let you take it outside with the salesman and look through it. It's quite an impressive optic for the price.

 

[jumrobe]

good scope choice. mount is meh

What’s wrong with the mount? The owners of the company are clowny, but the products are generally solid. I don’t expect anything less from this mount.

Hope the optic works out well for you. I may check one out someday myself.

I’ll follow up with how I like it as I get it out in the field.

Excellent choice! You'll love it. They're great scopes.

I strongly considered the Kahles 624i you suggested, but the reviews on this scope, and the reticle made it more appealing.

Now for the painful wait on the barrel so I can get the gun together and at the range.

 

[FuhQ]

I strongly considered the Kahles 624i you suggested, but the reviews on this scope, and the reticle made it more appealing.

Now for the painful wait on the barrel so I can get the gun together and at the range.

You wouldn't have been disappointed with the newest Gen K624i. It's a damn nice scope (I have 2 of them), regardless of what a bunch of loudmouth haters have to say about them. Anyone who's even looked through one of the newest gens, will tell you they're a big step up from the old ones. If you're looking to upgrade another rifle's scope in the future, it's worth taking a look at one.

I've been waiting since before Thanksgiving on a $20 reamer pilot, so they can ship the pilot and reamer to the barrel manufacturer, so I can get my custom ordered barrel chambered... I'm not impressed with how they're handling it. It keeps getting pushed back, and pushed back, and excuses and excuses. It's a damn $20 reamer pilot, and it's holding up a multi-thousand $$$$ build. I've already bought the $400 reamer for the chamber.

 

[b6graham]

What’s wrong with the mount? The owners of the company are clowny, but the products are generally solid. I don’t expect anything less from this mount.



I’ll follow up with how I like it as I get it out in the field.



I strongly considered the Kahles 624i you suggested, but the reviews on this scope, and the reticle made it more appealing.

Now for the painful wait on the barrel so I can get the gun together and at the range.

oh the mount probably works fine. i just cant justify ever giving them any money

 

[FuhQ]

oh the mount probably works fine. i just cant justify ever giving them any money

Not to mention they HEAVILY fluff their suppressor ratings.

 

[jumrobe]

Not to mention they HEAVILY fluff their suppressor ratings.

TBF, they were all playing games with their ratings until Pew Science came along.