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Optics Help

Ramblin'Man

Private
Minuteman
Dec 6, 2021
20
14
OK
I recently obtained a bolt action 300WSM that was previously used by a local SOT unit. I intend to use the rifle, which has a custom Remington 700 action and a 32" barrel for long range (800 - 1000+ yards) daylight target shooting. My questions are, and forgive my naivety on the subject, what magnification should I look for and what is preferable, FFP or SFP? On the subject of focal plane one person I know swears that I should stick with SFP, but many of the articles I've read say FFP is the only way to go. What do y'all advise? Lastly, although I'd like to spend more and probably will in the future right now my budget is 1500.00 give or take a few.
 
I recently obtained a bolt action 300WSM that was previously used by a local SOT unit. I intend to use the rifle, which has a custom Remington 700 action and a 32" barrel for long range (800 - 1000+ yards) daylight target shooting. My questions are, and forgive my naivety on the subject, what magnification should I look for and what is preferable, FFP or SFP? On the subject of focal plane one person I know swears that I should stick with SFP, but many of the articles I've read say FFP is the only way to go. What do y'all advise? Lastly, although I'd like to spend more and probably will in the future right now my budget is 1500.00 give or take a few.

Regarding the FFP SFP question, it depends on what type of shooting you want to do with the rifle.

For PRS style shooting FFP is surely the way to go, but for bench rest or F-Class they pretty much always go with SFP.

A key factor to consider on FFP scopes is the zoom range. Some scopes brag up 5 X the base power, so a 5-25 X for example. Some scopes go even higher like 6x base power 5-30 X as an example. This sounds real cool until you actually try to use the scope at the extremes of the zoom range.

The reticle is either too fat or you pretty much cant see it.

Some FFP scopes have only a 3x base power range where the reticle size is more acceptable throughout the relatively narrow zoom range.

SFP Scopes tend to have an idealized reticle thickness regardless of zoom, and technically get better at higher magnification for precision.
 
If what you're saying is that SFP reticles have an ideal or optimized thickness regardless of power, you're wrong. The lower the power setting the more of the target is covered by the reticle.

Strictly speaking you are correct, except that at lower power you cannot discern as much detail and therefore the point is moot.

It is interesting that you cropped out the rest of my statement you are quoting which states the same thing from the other side of the zoom range.

"and technically get better at higher magnification for precision."

From which you can deduce the opposite is also true.... as you clarified.
 
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If you shoot PRS, speed matters more than absolute accuracy - you will turn your magnification down to 10 or 12x. You do this in order to get a wider field of view so you can acquire targets quicker. If you shoot in very hot weather or over sand you may be forced to turn down magnification in order to reduce the distortion introduced by mirage. I have shot in mirage so bad that you could see the target only about half the time, the other half it simply wasn't there at all - that's a tough situation with fixed power 40x scope. If you have more time and don't have those problems, you will probably turn your magnification all the way up. In my opinion, the primary advantage to a first-focal-plane scope is that the reticle tick marks always mean the same thing - the 0.2 mil tic always means 0.2 mil. This is an advantage when shooting PRS or other events where speed matters. You can set the magnification where it suits the event the best, estimate you wind call, then hold using the reticle. With a second-focal-plane scope, the 0.2 mil tic is only 0.2 mil at a specific power. I find that difficult, your mileage may vary. Keep in mind, when you turn up the power on a FFP scope, the reticle lines get fatter. Depending on your reticle, that may or may not be an issue.

If you can bump your budget by $1,000 you can get a lot more scope. A used 5-25x or 6-24x Kahles with a Christmas tree reticle is a very nice piece of glass. I also have a $1,300 bushnell tactical that is not high-tech - I think it is 3-21x, FFP, 34mm body, no zero stop, no illumination. I'm not recommending the Bushnell but you can do some good shooting and get some good training with a mid-priced scope - just remember its limitations.
 
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I can and do shoot an entire PRS match at 20 x and never reduce the magnification to assist with finding a target and I can acquire the target faster than anyone on the range. Not that I'm superman or anything its just how I use the red dot.

I'm surprised this has not caught on. All I do differently is mount the red dot on the front part of the scope tube at a 9:30 position and offset so it aligns perfectly with my left eye. This allows me to look through either the scope or the red dot alternatively without changing head position.

For F Class I use a Nightforce NXS SFP with a reticle that is dimensionally correct at full magnification. I've never used that scope for PRS, but set up with a red dot like this, there's no reason it could not be used.

As far as target acquisition speed goes, I would never reduce magnification for that purpose alone, but there may be other advantages to reducing magnification such as spotting shots in the air under recoil. That to me is the real reason to go with an FFP optic. Another reason might be to expose more of the reticle for hold overs.

1640360431853.png


1640359556827.png
 
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I can and do shoot an entire PRS match at 20 x and never reduce the magnification to assist with finding a target and I can acquire the target faster than anyone on the range. Not that I'm superman or anything its just how I use the red dot.

I'm surprised this has not caught on. All I do differently is mount the red dot on the front part of the scope tube at a 9:30 position and offset so it aligns perfectly with my left eye. This allows me to look through either the scope or the red dot alternatively without changing head position.

For F Class I use a Nightforce NXS SFP with a reticle that is dimensionally correct at full magnification. I've never used that scope for PRS, but set up with a red dot like this, there's no reason it could not be used.

As far as target acquisition speed goes, I would never reduce magnification for that purpose alone, but there may be other advantages to reducing magnification such as spotting shots in the air under recoil. That to me is the real reason to go with an FFP optic. Another reason might be to expose more of the reticle for hold overs.
I think that is a pretty cool idea - especially for multiple target engagements. Which red dot scope is that? How did you mount it to the scope tube?
 
These are the components bax

The trick is to get the spacing just right to match the distance between your eyes. It doesn't need to be perfect, but should be within the field of view of the red dot.

Things like scope tube diameter can affect the spacing.

It would be nice if someone made something for this purpose so we would not have to cobble together a bunch of bits that can be hard to find on the internet.

s-l300.jpg


61zuROU9G4L._AC_SL1000_.jpg






51+IJQtI46L._AC_SL1200_.jpg
 
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These are the components bax

The trick is to get the spacing just right to match the distance between your eyes. It doesn't need to be perfect, but should be within the field of view of the red dot.

Things like scope tube diameter can affect the spacing.

It would be nice if someone made something for this purpose so we would not have to cobble together a bunch of bits that can be hard to find on the internet.

s-l300.jpg


61zuROU9G4L._AC_SL1000_.jpg






51+IJQtI46L._AC_SL1200_.jpg
Have you heard of Spuhr mounts? I'm not sure if this answers your question about someone making a product that allows you to mount other components to or not, but I figure I'd throw it out there to see what you say.

 
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Have you heard of Spuhr mounts? I'm not sure if this answers your question about someone making a product that allows you to mount other components to or not, but I figure I'd throw it out there to see what you say.

Yes I have Ramblin Man, thanks for the suggestion,,, Cadex also makes something that is probably a little closer to my needs, but none of them position the red dot directly in front of the left eye while the right eye is looking through the scope.

I originally mounted the red dot on top of the front ring, then I had to turkey neck up and down. That was slower and lead to jostling the rifle around while moving stock weld.

AR15 guys put the red dot at 1:30 and that works for CQB, but we have to reposition the entire rifle to transition from red dot to scope.

Placing the red dot directly in front of the left eye is simply the fastest and most efficient position.
 
As far as SFP vs FFP, either or. If you are shooting on a known distance range and expect to do most of your shooting there, SFP is just fine.
What magnification?
Depends on the type of shooting you do. You can ring IPSC steel targets all day long out to 1200 yards with a 10X scope.
In reality, a good 5-25 or 6-24 would serve your purposes really well, here is a good example of a very good scope at a very good price, it is a 30mm tube with 29 mils of total adjustment:

 
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FFP should be preferred unless your main use is hunting. Yes it can be done with SFP but its just more work... Lots of good options out there for $1,500 and the Razor Gen 2 and Burris XTR3 are both good recommendations. You can get it done easily with 15x power but more can be better at times.