Options for large frame receiver sets
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I really like my 2A Arms Xanthos receiver sets. They are very light and well made. Expensive, yes, but worth it. If you are careful, it’s not hard to build lightweight AR10 off of them. My 16” barreled 308 weights 5.9# empty without optics, and I could make it lighter with a carbon fiber hand guard and titanium adjustable gas block.
There's nothing wrong with aero receivers per se it's the handguard that matters
I had a couple M5e1 and both of them the handguards came loose. One the barrel nut came loose
However if you got the regular aero 308 receiver set and then used a decent handguard like KAC that problem would likely never happen
Seekins is another it's similar to the M5e1 but they use a slightly different screw hole type design and they don't seem to come loose nearly as often, if ever
Mega receivers are nicely machined and they used to have their MA-TEN which was a really nice setup with the handguard attached but I think they got sued over it
Larue upper + handguard combo design is good but they don't sell them separately in 308 size, you'd have to buy his 308 "match" upper and then his lower and put it all together yourself probably be 2500ish when done - and then if it doesn't shoot well a custom barrel is next
Another one is your barrel and bolt carrier group, I'd order a barrel with a matched bolt to avoid any issues
I had a couple M5e1 and both of them the handguards came loose. One the barrel nut came loose
However if you got the regular aero 308 receiver set and then used a decent handguard like KAC that problem would likely never happen
Seekins is another it's similar to the M5e1 but they use a slightly different screw hole type design and they don't seem to come loose nearly as often, if ever
Mega receivers are nicely machined and they used to have their MA-TEN which was a really nice setup with the handguard attached but I think they got sued over it
Larue upper + handguard combo design is good but they don't sell them separately in 308 size, you'd have to buy his 308 "match" upper and then his lower and put it all together yourself probably be 2500ish when done - and then if it doesn't shoot well a custom barrel is next
Another one is your barrel and bolt carrier group, I'd order a barrel with a matched bolt to avoid any issues
Another consideration between the Aero and the Seekins is the Seekins is ambi, the Aero is not. The Seekins has been backordered for some time, though, and who knows when they will be available. Both the Aero Enhanced and the Seekins SP10 have large OD/ID handguards which are proprietary (some exceptions), and are not connected to the barrel nut.
The Seekins and the Mega (also ambi) are technically SR-25 pattern, but that pattern uses DPMS components.
The Seekins and the Mega (also ambi) are technically SR-25 pattern, but that pattern uses DPMS components.
You can order the JP LRI-20 as a builders kit, I recently finished one myself. The Barrel is a 24" Bartlein 1-8 Twist with Rifle Length +2 Gas System from CLE. The only ambi feature that couldn't be added was a right side bolt release, but the JP requires a true thermo fit so the rigidity is outstanding and noticeably stiffer than the SP10.
If you prefer a Top Charger they have the LTI-23 that you can use any large frame handguard you prefer if you're not a fan of the round handguards. The JP Build kits are about as good as it gets.
Here's a side by side of the two.
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I’ll say Mega MML. Thermal fit and handguard attaches straight to the receiver. Before even locking it in with screws it is extremely tight and rigid. The tolerances are extremely tight.
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Building large frame AR's unless you really know what you are doing, have the tools, Understand what components work with what, and can diagnose issues; is like beating your head against the wall. Save the time and money and just buy a solid rifle platform you can upgrade or swap out parts as you need. Figure out what caliber you want first and then start looking to see whats in stock.
In 2010, sure. Nowadays, not so much.
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I would say it’s even worse today than in 2010. At least in 2010, there were only a few receiver and BCG options to keep you away from a lot of the de-tuning off 3 main designs that existed in the 1990s.
The litany of parts dumped into the large frame market from all different sources, who aren’t working from a standard technical data set, only has exacerbated the problem with large frame AR compatibility.
(I’ve been chasing and documenting this since the 1990s.)
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Seems like the good parts have gotten expensive/crazy wait times. Meanwhile there's a plethora of factory rifles available. If I were building right now I'd be tempted to try the wilson combat receivers/barrels/bcg/forearm just because they are actually available.
Be carefull with wilson. They aren't the company they used to be. One of my buddies who owns a gunstore and is a huge vollume dealer of high end shit, along with being a national champion benchrest shooter, has had a ton of trouble with the Wilson AR's he has sold. He has had to send a bunch back to the factory for a litany of issues, including FTF and accuracy issues with factory match ammo. Wilson make some decent parts for the AR (their trigger is underrated) but honestly, I would stay away.
Something else to think about. The 6 ARC has really minimized the advantage of the large frame AR. Unless you need the Energy at range, its really hard to beat the 6 ARC in a small frame AR. Less recoil, shoots flatter, easier to tune the gas system with a small vs large frame, Can take high BC bullets compared to the 120-130 class class 6.5 bullets typically shot from an AR.
The chance of putting together a 6ARC that runs well is SIGNIFICANTLY higher and probably much cheaper than trying to build a comparable large frame.
The chance of putting together a 6ARC that runs well is SIGNIFICANTLY higher and probably much cheaper than trying to build a comparable large frame.
That's too bad because they used to make very very accurate rifles and pistols.
I honestly can't remember the last time one of my Custom builds had any mechanical or reliability issues, I had a couple barrels this year shit the bed early but other than that no issues. I'm batting 1000 with reliability and meetings my Sub Half MOA Guarantee and that's with five 6.5CM's, two .308's and one .223 this year alone.
Aero is not bad by no stretch, but there are nicer. I will add to that, that CLE uses aero enhanced sets for his builds which says they will definitely build a nice gun & shoot.
When you start to really get into them though the small things are what you pay for in the higher quality sets that may or may not mean anything to you. If you plan to shoot from a bipod I would recommend an aero enhaced set over the S or R one hand guard. But I did have a aero on a S one hand guard that would hold under a 1 moa avg with a good barrel at 500 yards. I bought a nicer set to replace it and a proof carbon barrel that was 1.5 moa. BigJake warned me not to, I didn’t listen and now I’m hoping Proof can resolve it. Some of these guys on here know their stuff, listen to them because they lived it already. Also, large frame rifles are just as reliable as small frame, just do your research on parts.
When you start to really get into them though the small things are what you pay for in the higher quality sets that may or may not mean anything to you. If you plan to shoot from a bipod I would recommend an aero enhaced set over the S or R one hand guard. But I did have a aero on a S one hand guard that would hold under a 1 moa avg with a good barrel at 500 yards. I bought a nicer set to replace it and a proof carbon barrel that was 1.5 moa. BigJake warned me not to, I didn’t listen and now I’m hoping Proof can resolve it. Some of these guys on here know their stuff, listen to them because they lived it already. Also, large frame rifles are just as reliable as small frame, just do your research on parts.
My MEGA with JP and RCA parts in 308 and 6.5cm are tight, 100% reliable and stupid accurate. Use good parts, tune them properly and never look back. Running a 22" Bartlein +2 gas in 6.5cm and a 20" Krieger Rifle Gas in 308. Both are stupid accurate with a wide range of bullets...
The Krieger 308 is sub half moa with 175smk/Varget and 155 Amax/ H4895. The Bartlein shoots everything tight from 123L, 130 ELD, 130 AR Hybrids, and 140 ELD's... My current load is 123 Lapua Scener over 42.4gr H4350 is 2847 and shoots 0.3moa. 123 Scenars and 130 Hybrids are my go to.. Yes you can shoot the heavier bullets, but I think a 6.5cm gasser shines with the 120-130gr bullets....
www.zevtechnologies.com
www.zevtechnologies.com
The Krieger 308 is sub half moa with 175smk/Varget and 155 Amax/ H4895. The Bartlein shoots everything tight from 123L, 130 ELD, 130 AR Hybrids, and 140 ELD's... My current load is 123 Lapua Scener over 42.4gr H4350 is 2847 and shoots 0.3moa. 123 Scenars and 130 Hybrids are my go to.. Yes you can shoot the heavier bullets, but I think a 6.5cm gasser shines with the 120-130gr bullets....
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I also did a build off and testing of a $1000 budget precision large frame gasser a few years back because I kept getting asked if you can build a precision gasser for $1000.... I took up the challenge and it really surprised me.
It was built on a Aero 308 receiver set which at the time were going for crazy sales. It was a bit of a nightmare, I had machine defects on the lower. Wouldnt hold a magazine they didnt properly machine the magwell. Customer service was a NIGHTMARE and thats an understatement. Anyway, once they got me a replacement lower the build ran great.
The star of the show, was an inexpensive 18" fluted Wilson Arms (NOT Wilsom Combat) 308 barrel. It was a hammer and it was like $200! I bought 2 of them actually, the same barrels but 1 fluted and 1 non-fluted. Stupid accurate. Shot 175smk with both H4895 and Varget in the 0.3's along with 168 ELD in the 0.4's. The short answer, yes I could build a 100% reliable very accurate large frame gasser for $1000. With the price of things now, that price is probably more like $1300-$1400 but it can be done..
It was built on a Aero 308 receiver set which at the time were going for crazy sales. It was a bit of a nightmare, I had machine defects on the lower. Wouldnt hold a magazine they didnt properly machine the magwell. Customer service was a NIGHTMARE and thats an understatement. Anyway, once they got me a replacement lower the build ran great.
The star of the show, was an inexpensive 18" fluted Wilson Arms (NOT Wilsom Combat) 308 barrel. It was a hammer and it was like $200! I bought 2 of them actually, the same barrels but 1 fluted and 1 non-fluted. Stupid accurate. Shot 175smk with both H4895 and Varget in the 0.3's along with 168 ELD in the 0.4's. The short answer, yes I could build a 100% reliable very accurate large frame gasser for $1000. With the price of things now, that price is probably more like $1300-$1400 but it can be done..
I'm still surprised you're wanting to sell, I'd keep it as a back up. Let me know who the buyer is and I'll pass along the data on what those barrels like.
I’m very low on room without buying another safe, then I gotta buy another Razor to sit on top, etc. and for what? I don’t shoot good enough to see the difference between a KAC and the Bartlein, but damned if I do know the Bartlein will certainly shoot.
C/N:
Zev tech ar10 billet set and handguard
Proof research 22"
Jp ebcg
I hope some day you do that build justice and shitcan that hydo buffer and replace it with a JP H2 SCS, along with that God awful Proof barrel. That Contour they decided to go with has the worst Barrel Harmonics I have ever seen.
Shoot that barrel while recording with a High Speed Camra, the amount of barrel whip it produces makes it look a 22" rubber Dildo flying through the air...
Yeah, that visual is gonna linger.
Building an AR308 just isn't that hard. There are entire discussion forums dedicated to it and the publicly available body of knowledge is fairly substantial.
I've have a gen 1 and gen 2 jp scs. I no longer use them. I replaced them the the hydraulic buffers and all my other builds use vltor A5. I won't be going back. Ymmv
Reason being was ejection issues & inconsistencies, bolt bounce and ealier unlocking leading to a dirtier system. Replaced them and those issues went away. I was chasing an issue with the gen 1. Tried different bcg, new slr gas block, etc. Replaced the buffer system and everything was perfect.
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But yet we see more threads on here and I get more PM's on a monthly basis about large frame gasser issues than anything else by far. Like I said last night, you do your research, use good quality known parts that are known to play well together with custom barrels and you dont have any issues as long as everything is in spec....
As @reubenski said, you try and build one up with bargain barrel parts and little knowledge of large frame gasser building, tuning and diagnosing your playing with fire...
If you go over the Arfcom tech forums you can see people struggle putting together a run of the mill AR15. Trouble shooting an AR308 and an AR15 is actually the same. The general public is largely retarded though and you can see the same type of behavior in all technically oriented subjects. Cars, guns, home repair, etc; the same people f@ck all of those up too.
Only thing that surprised (and annoys) me about my first 6 ARC is how dirty the round is. Running suppressed is noticeably dirtier than 556 or 308 / 6.5CM for me. Curious if others have had similar experiences.
I am currently planning on building 2 rifles. One is 6.5 and one in 308. I already have the aero receiver sets. I am looking at Criterion hybrid 18" rifle gas barrels for both.
Any problems with these barrels or should others be used?
I am also contemplating playing with a riflespeed AGB but haven't decided on that yet.
Advice is appreciated.
Any problems with these barrels or should others be used?
I am also contemplating playing with a riflespeed AGB but haven't decided on that yet.
Advice is appreciated.
Or like Lamar throwing the rubber javelin in “Revenge of the Nerds”…
My Criterion (18", 1:10, .308) came with a .068 rifle length gas port. I could never get the bolt to hold open on heavy loads, and several brands of 150gr FMJ stuff wouldn't cycle...period...and I spent a lot of time and money on parts trying to remedy the problem.
After reading up on .308 gas port sizes, everything I found pointed to my gas port being undersized for that barrel length. I contacted Criterion, and was politely told that I was wrong and so were the websites.
Frustrated, I didn't know what to do until a nice gentleman from here who makes AR barrels PM'ed me and told me to open the port to .093 with my drill press. I guess he'd made a few thousand with the same barrel and gas length, and had always gone .093 (which is what I found on the internet).
I took my time with my press, and wow...never had a short stroke since. Took that rifle on quite a few hog hunts and it fed everything great without any other change. It would be a touch overgassed if you ran a non-adjustable gas block...but an AGB is an easy thing to tune.
I had that upper apart completely three times trying to find out where I was wrong. I'd also spent a lot of money on springs and buffers by that point...guess I have more spare parts on the bright side.
That 18" Criterion shoots well too...but I'll never buy another of their barrels.
Just my mileage, YMMV.
Yep, .093 is about on the money for rifle to most rifle+ lengths I’ve gauged. Enough for robust function in adverse conditions.
Love 2A armaments gear, I will say this it was the tightest fit between the barrel and upper I’ve had, to get the barrel in a had to freeze the barrel and heat the upper. The upper and lower fit like a glove, didn’t even need the tension screw.
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I don't have enough experience other than pig hunting to be the guy with a solid recommendation man. I still have that Criterion, and my other .308 build uses a Wilson Combat barrel and BCG (18" as well).
The WC will shoot sub-minute with 130gr TTSX and 150gr SST though...that's a huge plus for it. Factory fodder was closer to 2 MOA though when I was breaking the barrel in. Neither rifle has never seen match ammo or target shooting at distance.
My two large frame ARs are both just thermal rigs that may at some point see some woods hunting. 1.5 MOA is all I really care about when 95% of my shooting is 150 and in...and they both do very well at that.
It just took a little of frigging work to get that Criterion build to function. I also got a nitride (never doing that again) CMC gas tube that was completely sealed shut on the inside on that same build. Had that thing apart so many times until I figured it out...it was like 6 builds in one
. However, it runs like a top now.
Have you tried Hammer bullets? 137HH hog destroyer bang flop reigning champ!I don't have enough experience other than pig hunting to be the guy with a solid recommendation man. I still have that Criterion, and my other .308 build uses a Wilson Combat barrel and BCG (18" as well).
The WC will shoot sub-minute with 130gr TTSX and 150gr SST though...that's a huge plus for it. Factory fodder was closer to 2 MOA though when I was breaking the barrel in. Neither rifle has never seen match ammo or target shooting at distance.
My two large frame ARs are both just thermal rigs that may at some point see some woods hunting. 1.5 MOA is all I really care about when 95% of my shooting is 150 and in...and they both do very well at that.
It just took a little of frigging work to get that Criterion build to function. I also got a nitride (never doing that again) CMC gas tube that was completely sealed shut on the inside on that same build. Had that thing apart so many times until I figured it out...it was like 6 builds in one
Dude, I've had fantastic results with cheap-ass 150gr soft points from Federal, Winchester, and Hornady in the .308.
I have zero doubt that some of those exotic bullets work great, but I'm enjoying spending 1/3 the cost (if that) on a projectile.
Second vote for the Xanthos… Especially if you’re going for a light(ish) weight rig. Here’s my 8.25# pig sticker in .308:
Not the tool I’d pick to use in a fight for my life, but sure is nice carrying a lot less weight when pushing through deep cedar and mesquite, up and down the hills for a few miles in the middle of summer.
Not the tool I’d pick to use in a fight for my life, but sure is nice carrying a lot less weight when pushing through deep cedar and mesquite, up and down the hills for a few miles in the middle of summer.
How did you find the barrel fit on that zev upper? I got one and was expecting it to be a thermal fit… but it wasn’t… if anything, it was a bit loose. I used a Noveske barrel and haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet.
Zev tech ar10 billet set and handguard
Proof research 22"
Jp ebcg
It was tight, I heated it up anyway but it probably wasn't necessary. So not a true thermal fit but definitely didn't just slide in.
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