Pacific Tool and Gauge BDL drop in DBM detachable bottom metal for Rem 700 SA

[WT1]

I've been corresponding with Pacific Tool & Gauge about bottom metal for an HS Precision Stock for a Rem 700 Short action in 223.

I've heard good things and a lot of horror stories about PT&G and wondering if when the guy says it is drop-in if it in fact really is drop-in. I'm talking about this DBM: https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/rem...ag-bottom-metalbdl-dbm-w1-mag-ati-legacy.html

Here is his email response to my questions if any of the DBM's will fit?


"Is it a Remington 700? If so, it will fit"

But then right on the page it says:
We cannot guarantee the part will drop in. We make products to tighter tolerances than factory. If bottom metal does not drop in or has tolerance issues, take the gun to a qualified gunsmith or utilize our inletting service.

This bottom metal only accepts the ATI polymer mags. See description below for list of sizes.

Has anyone tried this product. It is for a Rem 700 LTR. Also, are there other mags that will be compatible?

Thanks in advance.

WT

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Save yourself the headache and find another source for the product you want.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[JMGlasgow]

You won't get many recommendations for anything PTG from the members on this site. I won't recommend them to anyone either and I own one of their M5 inlet DBM bottom metal pieces.

 

[WT1]

HS Precision actually makes one for its own stocks but it is more than twice the price with a 10 round magazine, so looking for alternatives if possible before that https://hsprecision.com/product/remington-700-detachable-magazine-conversion-kits/

 

[High Desert duck]

I wouldn’t want a bottom metal that only took one kind of magazine. Especially polymer

 

[SmartDonkey]

Just looking at the picture it sure looks like it would take the same inlet as regular Rem bottom metal. And if it did need adjusted it would be simple work and no reason to go to a gunsmith.

I have had excellent luck with PTG- everything has been shipped fast and the quality was great. But some people that I know and trust have told me of very poor experiences from them. When there's as many bad reviews floating around as they have it generally shows a pattern of the companies policies.

 

[SQ54]

I have PTG bottom metal that takes AICS mags in a McMillan stock which was cut by McMillan which works perfectly, however…a recent call to them about a rifle bolt elicited the response that the csr couldn’t sell me the standard catalogue item and that I would have to email Dave, which I then did. His reply to me was that he would sell me the rifle bolt and build the rifle for me, so just ship everything to him. I replied that I have a gunsmith and just wanted the bolt. Have never heard back from him and didn’t get the bolt.

 

[powdahound76]

Look at Hawkins Precision.

Have owned many of the top brands.
really like this one. And its an excellent bargain.

 

[Runnineh]

If you are playing with fire, you can't be afraid to get burned

 

[WT1]

I wouldn’t want a bottom metal that only took one kind of magazine. Especially po

Thinking of the Hawkins M5 for now. Looking for a good smith in the Wisconsin area who will do the inlet unless I can do it with a Dremel. A pattern showing what needs to come out would be handy unless I can merely take a Sharpie and draw a line around the M5. But it is my understanding some metal may need to come off and the pillars are a different length.

 

[powdahound76]

@WT1 - Have a Professional do it.

I will ask a good friend or two who live up there who they would recommend as a local smith for inletting. Always nice if you can just drop it off and pick it up.

Otherwise, a couple calls and a shipping box and I have a couple recommendations.LRI, Mile High Shooting, Black Canyon Customs.

Have had work (this specifically) done by all of them. All Top Notch.

 

[supercorndogs]

Thinking of the Hawkins M5 for now. Looking for a good smith in the Wisconsin area who will do the inlet unless I can do it with a Dremel. A pattern showing what needs to come out would be handy unless I can merely take a Sharpie and draw a line around the M5. But it is my understanding some metal may need to come off and the pillars are a different length.

Yes the M5 needs to be cut deeper than the BDL. Its depth in the stock is critical to feeding. That said the first one I took to a local gunsmith, was an HS precision stock, and he did it with a dremel.

I always try to steer people away from the bolt in BDL DBM from PTG. The one I had required fitting to the BDL inlet to make it fit, and the mags they use suck.

 

[jcmullis2]

I waited 6 months for pt&g part and was lucky I got my money back. Others have much worse stories so keep that in mind. I think Hs precision still makes a drop in Dbm but it only takes their proprietary mags. Good luck

 

[stefan73]

What about Badger? https://www.badgerordnance.com/mil-spec/m5-dbm-detachable-magazinetriggerguard-short-action.html

 

[WT1]

What about Badger? https://www.badgerordnance.com/mil-spec/m5-dbm-detachable-magazinetriggerguard-short-action.html

Looking at it as we speak. The reason I started on the PT&G is because it is $150 and supposedly drop-in, but I've yet to hear anyone say it actually is and lots of negative responses, so.

 

[gopherslayer]

Badger won’t be a drop in.

I’m still sitting on a CDI DBM. Some day I might use it. I’ve been saying this for 8 years now LOL!

 

[jcmullis2]

Legacy Sports makes a Dbm setup for Remington 700s that’s supposed to drop right in. I haven’t tried one but they’re inexpensive and you don’t have to modify your stock. Another solution is to sell your hs precision stock and bottom metal and buy something better. Look around and see what those parts are selling for it might surprise you because it did me.

 

[WT1]

Legacy Sports makes a Dbm setup for Remington 700s that’s supposed to drop right in. I haven’t tried one but they’re inexpensive and you don’t have to modify your stock. Another solution is to sell your hs precision stock and bottom metal and buy something better. Look around and see what those parts are selling for it might surprise you because it did me.

Yes I've seen those from Legacy Sports on Brownells and elsewhere. They are polymer, which would be lighter though I'm not a big fan. As for selling the HS Precision stock, the thing about the rig is it is very light, hence the name LTR, and most of the chassis/stocks that you could replace it with weigh more, which would defeat the original design, which if you ask me, is a good one in that regard. Ounces lead to pounds, pounds lead to pain. I can't see someone hiking, at my age anyway, after the world goes to hell or just on a coyote hunt in rough country, with a PRS gun that weighs 20 lbs or more. Heck, I don't like it if my hunting rigs go over 10 with a 26" barrel. Shit, I don't even like to carry, sidearms are too heavy.

 

[High Desert duck]

Yes I've seen those. As for selling the HS Precision stock, the thing about the rig is it is very light, hence the name, and most of the chassis/stocks that you could replace it with weigh more, which would defeat the original design, which if you ask me, is a good one in that regard.

I don’t know how much exactly your stock weighs but my gues it’s close to the same weight as the bell and Carlson. This one is set up for an M5 inlet. I ran a skim bedded tactical version of this bell and Carlson for years. Decent stock especially for the money. I’m used a Hawkins tactical. I don’t know if the smith did any mill work to inlet it for the Hawkins. I don’t think so.

http://www.bellandcarlson.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1138
$300

 

[WT1]

I don’t know how much exactly your stock weighs but my gues it’s close to the same weight as the bell and Carlson. This one is set up for an M5 inlet. I ran a skim bedded tactical version of this bell and Carlson for years. Decent stock especially for the money. I’m used a Hawkins tactical. I don’t know if the smith did any mill work to inlet it for the Hawkins. I don’t think so.

http://www.bellandcarlson.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1138
$300

I have something similar for another rig.

You'd think B&C and HS would simply start making one or some of their stocks compatible with an M5 inlet. I believe you can order them from Grayboe that way.

 

[Aftermath]

Short Action RTG*

Redesigned Trigger Guard Our trigger guards were designed out of necessity. There are other great detachable magazine systems out there but we felt there was a need for something better. Our RTG will not snag on your clothing accidentally while on a hunt or on the range in the middle of a...

www.americanprecisionarms.com

I REALLY like these. Especially on a hunting or multi-purpose rifle. No big lever to catch on schtuff at the wrong moment but "right there" when you want to drop a mag. AICS pattern mags.
I have this on a .223AI I use Accurate Mags in and a 300WINMAG I use the long AICS mags.
Several years on both rifles (hundreds of rounds in each) and no issues.

 

[WT1]

Short Action RTG*

Redesigned Trigger Guard Our trigger guards were designed out of necessity. There are other great detachable magazine systems out there but we felt there was a need for something better. Our RTG will not snag on your clothing accidentally while on a hunt or on the range in the middle of a...

www.americanprecisionarms.com

I REALLY like these. Especially on a hunting or multi-purpose rifle. No big lever to catch on schtuff at the wrong moment but "right there" when you want to drop a mag. AICS pattern mags.
I have this on a .223AI I use Accurate Mags in and a 300WINMAG I use the long AICS mags.
Several years on both rifles (hundreds of rounds in each) and no issues.

Are they drop-in?

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I have something similar for another rig.

You'd think B&C and HS would simply start making one or some of their stocks compatible with an M5 inlet. I believe you can order them from Grayboe that way.

B&C sells a few of their stocks set up for the M5 inlet but it's also pretty easy modification for a gunsmith to make

Are they drop-in?

None of the DBM options that are AICS compatible are "drop in" for a Remington BDL inlet as far as I know, the magazine is too fat for the bottom metal to drop in.

It's not really drop in ready but you can modify a Magpul Hunter DBM pretty easily to work in most stocks set up for the Remington BDL with just a Dremel and a hacksaw. The Magpul DBM was designed to work with the Remington BDL pillar depths and feed from AICS magazines so it's just a matter of getting rid of some material on the DBM and sanding the edges of the magwell to get it to drop in. Since the sides of the DBM are short you don't have to cut into the aluminum skeleton of the stock like you would the Hawkins, APA, Badger, etc...

In stock form:

My modified one to fit in my HS Precision stock:

 

[WT1]

B&C sells a few of their stocks set up for the M5 inlet but it's also pretty easy modification for a gunsmith to make

None of the DBM options that are AICS compatible are "drop in" for a Remington BDL inlet as far as I know, the magazine is too fat for the bottom metal to drop in.

It's not really drop in ready but you can modify a Magpul Hunter DBM pretty easily to work in most stocks set up for the Remington BDL with just a Dremel and a hacksaw. The Magpul DBM was designed to work with the Remington BDL pillar depths and feed from AICS magazines so it's just a matter of getting rid of some material on the DBM and sanding the edges of the magwell to get it to drop in. Since the sides of the DBM are short you don't have to cut into the aluminum skeleton of the stock like you would the Hawkins, APA, Badger, etc...

In stock form:

View attachment 7707974

My modified one to fit in my HS Precision stock:

View attachment 7707975

View attachment 7707977

View attachment 7707976

That is very interesting to me. Nice rig, by the way. May I ask what the cheek riser is as well? And thanks for the detailed pics and description. I will definitely look into the Magpul option.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

The cheek riser is made by Victor Company.

VICTOR COMPANY USA, INC. 10/22™ UNIVERSAL TITAN CHEEK REST | Brownells

The Victor Company’s Titan Universal Cheekrest was originally designed specifically for their Titan 1022 Precision Rimfire Stock to help you dial in just the right comb height for a proper line of sight with your optic. However, it has been found ...

www.brownells.com

I secured it to the stock with threaded inserts and machine screws.

 

[WT1]

I like it.

The cheek riser is made by Victor Company.

VICTOR COMPANY USA, INC. 10/22™ UNIVERSAL TITAN CHEEK REST | Brownells

The Victor Company’s Titan Universal Cheekrest was originally designed specifically for their Titan 1022 Precision Rimfire Stock to help you dial in just the right comb height for a proper line of sight with your optic. However, it has been found ...

www.brownells.com

I secured it to the stock with threaded inserts and machine screws.

View attachment 7707979

Any problems with it?

 

[Steel head]

Years ago I got some savage bottom metal from PTG.
They told me it was in stock and ready to ship.
Almost a year later it arrived.
At least it did work well.

 

[fdkay]

I've been corresponding with Pacific Tool & Gauge about bottom metal for an HS Precision Stock for a Rem 700 Short action in 223.

I've heard good things and a lot of horror stories about PT&G and wondering if when the guy says it is drop-in if it in fact really is drop-in. I'm talking about this DBM: https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/rem...ag-bottom-metalbdl-dbm-w1-mag-ati-legacy.html

Here is his email response to my questions if any of the DBM's will fit?


"Is it a Remington 700? If so, it will fit"

But then right on the page it says:
We cannot guarantee the part will drop in. We make products to tighter tolerances than factory. If bottom metal does not drop in or has tolerance issues, take the gun to a qualified gunsmith or utilize our inletting service.

This bottom metal only accepts the ATI polymer mags. See description below for list of sizes.

Has anyone tried this product. It is for a Rem 700 LTR. Also, are there other mags that will be compatible?

Thanks in advance.

WT

Here's your answer, I've highlighted the important part:
NOTE: All Remington 700 bottom metal may require minimal inletting due to the variation of stocks. This DBM is tested on Factory Remington Wood Stocks, other brands or models will require more work. Make sure of the proper application as all sales on PTG Bottom Metal is final, absolutely no returns. If you need inletting, we do offer that service for an additional charge. Please click here for more PTG inletting service information.

Bottom metal isn't cheap, Legacy sports (the Howa folks) sell a polymer drop in unit that works quite well, you are very limited on length and it isn't what I would call "robust", but it works, I ran one for a while.

You can take my advice or not, but don't try to cheap your way out on this. I bought an Atlas Worx unit, supposedly M5 type, seems well made but it doesn't fit, so it just sits there collecting dust along with the stock we tried to inlet for it (using an M5 program on CNC).
You can buy the HS precision drop in unit, they are spendy and the magazines are as well.
Or, you can sell you HS precision stock and buy a KRG Bravo and not worry about it, buy magpul mags if factory OAL is good for you, or spend the extra money for the other AI compatible magazines.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I like it.

Any problems with it?

No, it's pretty foolproof.

 

[TommyD11730]

The Legacy model dropped right into my HS stock. Thats the good part. Knowing there was no way it would take 65 inch lbs torque I looked up there spec. Welp at 40 inch pounds (give or take) the rear most screw started to pull through the bottom "metal".
Im done with plastic junk. Im also not confirtable having that alum skeleton ground on to fit an AICS style bottom metal.
So, in my case Ill sell my HS stock and move on to something else if I decide I really need a detachable mag.

YMMV

 

[Trigger Monkey]

The Legacy model dropped right into my HS stock. Thats the good part. Knowing there was no way it would take 65 inch lbs torque I looked up there spec. Welp at 40 inch pounds (give or take) the rear most screw started to pull through the bottom "metal".
Im done with plastic junk. Im also not confirtable having that alum skeleton ground on to fit an AICS style bottom metal.
So, in my case Ill sell my HS stock and move on to something else if I decide I really need a detachable mag.

YMMV

The Magpul is nice, it has steel inserts at the action screws so you can torque them down without worrying about it pulling through.

In machining the bedding block to fit a standard AICS compatible M5 DBM you actually don’t need to take a lot out of the sides. Not enough to adversely effect the rigidity or structural integrity of the stock in my experience.

 

[Softtail103]

Call HS Precision and order one of theirs. At least you will get it in a timely manner and it will fit without working on the stock.

 

[Aftermath]

Are they drop-in?

I'll say no. I had to trim just a very little on my McMillan Game Scout but I was also doing a bedding and pillar job. It was truly quite painless. The other one I had my gunsmith install as part of a package deal when he built my .223AI, so I am not real positive about that one.
I will note that I have installed other bottom metal groups and have always had to fit the thing to the stock...again, I always use pillars that also need installed at the same time, so....

 

[powdahound76]

I had MHS inlet an HS stock for M5 once a few years back.

Worked awesome on the 2 different BA I used in that stock.

No issues removing a little material.

Have a different one sitting in a corner currently set up that way. PTG M5 sitting in it.
for a “maybe a truck bolt rifle” someday.

Yes. I have a problem. No, I dont care to change that part of my life.

 

[WT1]

Call HS Precision and order one of theirs. At least you will get it in a timely manner and it will fit without working on the stock.

They are nice but mags are proprietary.

 

[WT1]

Here is a pattern for Badger's http://www.badgerordnance.com/media/bo_media/306-82_82C_89.pdf

Here is one from PT&G: http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/material-downloads/bm_inletting/m5tacinlet.pdf

The difference between the two in length is 3 thousandths.

 

[WT1]

B&C sells a few of their stocks set up for the M5 inlet but it's also pretty easy modification for a gunsmith to make

None of the DBM options that are AICS compatible are "drop in" for a Remington BDL inlet as far as I know, the magazine is too fat for the bottom metal to drop in.

It's not really drop in ready but you can modify a Magpul Hunter DBM pretty easily to work in most stocks set up for the Remington BDL with just a Dremel and a hacksaw. The Magpul DBM was designed to work with the Remington BDL pillar depths and feed from AICS magazines so it's just a matter of getting rid of some material on the DBM and sanding the edges of the magwell to get it to drop in. Since the sides of the DBM are short you don't have to cut into the aluminum skeleton of the stock like you would the Hawkins, APA, Badger, etc...

In stock form:

View attachment 7707974

My modified one to fit in my HS Precision stock:

View attachment 7707975

View attachment 7707977

View attachment 7707976

Are you able to change the height on the cheek rest once installed if you change your scope or whatever?

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Yes, it uses spacers so you can swap them out or add to it if you need more height. The cheek rest comes with two spacers, but additional spacers are available from Victor Company USA