I was shooting at 400yds today, it finally got up to 43deg today, and could not get a crisp picture with parallax. The mirage made my target very blurry no matter where I turned parallax, so I finally focused on a tree near my target to get semi close. Is there something else I can do, or best guess it?? and is best guess close enough not to worry about it?
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parallax/mirage
- Thread starter riddle326
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There isn't a lot of info to work from here, but I'll make a couple suggestions. First, are you sure there wasn't some condensation on the lenses of your scope? Also, if you have shot a number of rounds and the wind was calm, heat shimmers off the barrel might have blurred the image. Maybe?
What magnification were you using? When mirage comes up you need to back off. Usually 10-14x is enough to get it clearer in my area.
To make sure your parallax is set correctly, move your head slightly side to side and/or up and down. If the position of the reticle changes with respect to the target as you do that, then the parallax is not set right.
I was at x25 power. I will try backing down till its clear next time and see how it goes, but I do like to see the bullseye cross when shooting. It seems I shoot better groups when I can see my scope dot on the target cross. The temp outside was 45deg, coming from my basement which should be 55ish, but it was blurry before my first shot was taken.
First, did you ever set your parallax? Because it is usually set with the eyepiece, not the focus knob other than the prescribed setting to do it.
Mirage here is a pain, but not as bad as back east. Reducing power by 20-25% usually does it with some focus adj. There are days the targets are not clear, does not mean you cannot hit them.
One question to guys posting, do you call the focus knob the parallax knob? Just for reference in future posts.
Mirage here is a pain, but not as bad as back east. Reducing power by 20-25% usually does it with some focus adj. There are days the targets are not clear, does not mean you cannot hit them.
One question to guys posting, do you call the focus knob the parallax knob? Just for reference in future posts.
Parallax knob sounds correct to me.
When I took my 1st precision rifle class we learned that "focus" is a bi product of being parallax free as it's possible to be in focus and still have parallax on the system.
I see Kahles calls their focus a parallax wheel, not sure on NF. Anyway new to me, I always set the parallax on a new scope before all else, and just called it the focus knob, because the parallax should be set and now you are just clearing the picture.
This varies greatly from scope to scope, some are very parallax forgiving others not so much, my ATACR for example I gotta check that depending on the distance your shooting at my 300 650 setting won't pass the wobble test past 700 but it will maintain a clear picture.
Guys shooting Tangent Thetas claims its the most parallax forgiving scope currently in the market.
Full disclaimer here, I'm new to this game and by no means what I'm saying should be considered an expert's opinion.
All good, I can center punch steel to 1200 yards with the setting at 300 with a Kahles, I know and understand what you are saying. I am just hung up on terminology, most likely from yrs of running Leupolds.
On your Atacr, we had to call NF and get directions on setting parallax, it was not even close to the manuals directions. I fought my 7-35 for over a year, I could not buy a hit after 1650 yards. It all came into place once knowing. I can tell you, I was shooting one accurate rifle.
Ha ha funny you say that, I learned the hard way parallax markings being waay off seems to be common on NF. It happens to be the one thing I wish I could change about the my ATACR, although completely happy with everything else on the scope, specially the Mil-XT (personal preference).
Parallax forgiveness is actually the main thing I'm considering for my second scope.
On F1 Atacr's, I see that too, when I ran older NXS models, I recall they were close. I have hit at 2100 yards with the setting on 275-300, but it is no big deal, make finite adjustments. or don't go full retard on the knob, lol
I want you guys to do an experiment for me. Shoot your rifle at any distance you want doing all your side to side parallax checks or whatever you do. Get it just right and shoot your target. Now turn the parallax knob randomly to screw it up and shoot your target. Once you do this you wont worry about parallax anymore. If the image is clear good enough. Shoot.
Holy shit NO!
The eyepiece focus ring is there to focus the RETICLE, not the target. Go to the stickies and there's one that explains how to do it correctly. I'm not going into that here for you.
The target is brought into focus using the parallax adjustment. Correct parallax setting is confirmed by moving your head slightly behind the scope (without influencing the rifle) and confirming that the reticle stays in one place on the target as you move your eye in relation to it.
it's amazing how shallow the knowledge pool is here.....
That's called depth of field
It pays to have learned photography on 35 mm SLR cameras before becoming a shooter.
Don't go there with me.
I run Kahles and NF F1
On a Kahles, you set your eyebox up at whatever distance trips your trigger, get a clear pic, now adjust the parallax knob, if your point of aim moves, not set, you do this till reticle clear, no POA shift when adj parallax knob, Now your reticle is set to your eye, parallax is set. You crank on the eyepiece after this, out of whack, most likely your zero too.
On NF F1, You find a white background at 25 ft, you adj your eyebox to the clearest and darkest reticle possible, lock the ting down. You are done, no moving your head like a retard, parallax is set as far as you want to take it, eyebox is set.
Tell me how I am wrong.
Um....all rifle scopes work exactly the same way. But if you say so.
But I'm sure I don't know much after 35 years of amateur photography. Do carry on, please.
Prove me wrong then. Parallax is set, use the focus-parallax knob to clear the picture. I could give 2 shits how many pictures you have taken.
No dude, do you even know what parallax is? The fast focus eyepiece is to focus the reticle to your eyes, the parallax adjustment is to keep the reticle from changing your poa in case you’re head isn’t perfectly centered on the optic.
I was wrong, both you and pirate are right. I get so hung up on setting the eyepiece I lose focus. But I can say this, the 5 scopes 4 Kahles, 1 NF F1, I run today are far more forgiving concerning parallax than the Mark 4's and NXS models I used to shoot. Where every advancement downrange a tweak was needed. I don't touch the knob much. and I f I am missing what I am aiming at, I doubt it is parallax.
You can never do anything to dial out mirage. I've seen guys claim that you just need better glass to see through mirage but that's BS. You will actually read mirage better with better glass.
Think of the air between you and the target as a body of water. If you put a pencil in a glass of water it appears to bend. Obviously it doesn't actually but the image is refracted to cause the effect.
This same thing is going on with the target as the moisture in the air shifts the apparent position of the target. So the target is not necessarily where it appears to be, but just a little bit shifted (or refracted) from there. Gale McMillan published an article on this subject many years ago where he extrapolated the actual location of the target relative to the mirage flow speed and direction.
There is a way to see the relative position of where the target appears to have moved. Just mount a high power scope on a tripod and point it at the target. Add a weight to the tripod to be sure it does not move.
You will see the reticle will move around almost constantly relative to the target in heavy mirage. All you have to do is always shoot for the location of this spotting scope reticle and not the apparent center of the target.
If you have a scope cam, you can mount a phone on the spotting scope so you don't have to get your eye up to the spotting scope to see where the reticle is at the moment you are ready to shoot.
Zooming out so you cannot see mirage is counter productive. Mirage provides excellent feedback for wind speed and direction. Ideally you will develop a feel for how much hold off you need for a given speed and direction of mirage, in addition to the recognition of the image shifting that aligns with that.
Think of the air between you and the target as a body of water. If you put a pencil in a glass of water it appears to bend. Obviously it doesn't actually but the image is refracted to cause the effect.
This same thing is going on with the target as the moisture in the air shifts the apparent position of the target. So the target is not necessarily where it appears to be, but just a little bit shifted (or refracted) from there. Gale McMillan published an article on this subject many years ago where he extrapolated the actual location of the target relative to the mirage flow speed and direction.
There is a way to see the relative position of where the target appears to have moved. Just mount a high power scope on a tripod and point it at the target. Add a weight to the tripod to be sure it does not move.
You will see the reticle will move around almost constantly relative to the target in heavy mirage. All you have to do is always shoot for the location of this spotting scope reticle and not the apparent center of the target.
If you have a scope cam, you can mount a phone on the spotting scope so you don't have to get your eye up to the spotting scope to see where the reticle is at the moment you are ready to shoot.
Zooming out so you cannot see mirage is counter productive. Mirage provides excellent feedback for wind speed and direction. Ideally you will develop a feel for how much hold off you need for a given speed and direction of mirage, in addition to the recognition of the image shifting that aligns with that.
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The parallax sensitivity that you describe is real and its proper term is depth of field.
The wider the depth of field, the longer the distance between the nearest and farthest object that are in focus for a given parallax setting.
Scopes that need their parallax adjusted for relatively small change in target distance have a narrow depth of field
With some experience you can learn to adjust both magnification and parallax to see mirage really well at various distances to make a wind call then re-adjust for best sight picture to make the shot very quickly.
Tue, but I've tried to leave the scope set without adjusting anything when shooting for precise groups. Any changes you make can shift the POI, especially the ocular lens. (Which is why I detest fast focus eye pieces)
Sure it also depends on the quality of your scope, but I've seen this in some fairly expensive scopes, so at least keep an eye out for it.
I prefer to set it for the distance then forget it, if possible.
Sure it also depends on the quality of your scope, but I've seen this in some fairly expensive scopes, so at least keep an eye out for it.
I prefer to set it for the distance then forget it, if possible.
If you have a fast-focus eyepiece you can mark it with a sharpie, you can put a piece of duct tape on the underside scope to diopter or y9ou can put a drop of superglue on it.
To the op start shooting at 10-14x if you have a ffp scope. Your group's size shouldn't change. An sfp scope will have different values and a shift in impact as the magnification lens moves in and out. As has been stated you can only lower magnification to reduce mirage.
To the op start shooting at 10-14x if you have a ffp scope. Your group's size shouldn't change. An sfp scope will have different values and a shift in impact as the magnification lens moves in and out. As has been stated you can only lower magnification to reduce mirage.
Lowering magnification does not reduce or eliminate mirage. It's always there. All lowering magnification does is make it harder for you to see it.
Its like saying you shouldn't use a high magnification scope because it makes you unsteady. High magnification just helps you see when you're unsteady and zooming out doesn't change that.
Its like saying you shouldn't use a high magnification scope because it makes you unsteady. High magnification just helps you see when you're unsteady and zooming out doesn't change that.
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@koshkin
Care to chime in on mirage density at different magnifications? Is the error still the same at say 10x vs 25x?
For example, a shooter is using 25x and misses .3mil high due to mirage. Will the shooter still miss .3 high at 10x due to the mirage still “being there”? Or will the shooter not suffer from the same illusion as on higher magnification?
Same question for optics that seem to not show as much mirage at higher magnification as others (tangent for example).
Care to chime in on mirage density at different magnifications? Is the error still the same at say 10x vs 25x?
For example, a shooter is using 25x and misses .3mil high due to mirage. Will the shooter still miss .3 high at 10x due to the mirage still “being there”? Or will the shooter not suffer from the same illusion as on higher magnification?
Same question for optics that seem to not show as much mirage at higher magnification as others (tangent for example).
The mirage is always there regardless of what you are doing with your scope.
Scopes with greater depth of field allow you to see more in front and behind the target (which is what Tangent does) which really helps your brain get better image quality out of what is coming to your eye.
With my Tangent I can read the mirage just fine, but I can also see the target a little better.
As far as aiming through mirage goes, it seems that at lower magnification we are less prone to be chasing perfect alignment to the target, so we shoot better in difficult conditions. It is sort of a psychological effect. If the mirage is making the target image shimmer and move around, the worst thing you can do is start chasing it.
ILya
Scopes with greater depth of field allow you to see more in front and behind the target (which is what Tangent does) which really helps your brain get better image quality out of what is coming to your eye.
With my Tangent I can read the mirage just fine, but I can also see the target a little better.
As far as aiming through mirage goes, it seems that at lower magnification we are less prone to be chasing perfect alignment to the target, so we shoot better in difficult conditions. It is sort of a psychological effect. If the mirage is making the target image shimmer and move around, the worst thing you can do is start chasing it.
ILya
D
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If you are asking about the target displacement due to mirage, it is present even with the naked eye. So, if a cloud comes over and blocks the sun temporarily, you will likely shoot high by about 0.2 or 0.3mils. This happens whether at 10x, 25x or shooting peeps.
Was more along the lines of does it make the error more with magnification.
Obviously the environment causing the mirage is there and can be seen with naked eye.
But would peeps be say .1 error and 25x be .3 (making up numbers for example)?
Does magnification exacerbate the situation or just make it easier to see what’s causing the error?
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