PRS Talk Peacemaker Range Needs Help

[ZenBiker990]

If this has been posted elsewhere, mods, a lease move/redirect. I couldn't not find it. Peacemaker National Training Center, located in my home state of WV, is being sued by a couple living in Virginia over noise. This appears to be total BS, but Peacemaker still needs to address the legal matter, and that may bankrupt them, which is likely the intent of the suit. A GoFundMe account has been set up: https://www.gofundme.com/peacemakers-legal-fund

You can visit Peacemaker's website and Facebook page for details. The biggest indicator of the true nature of this lawsuit is the plaintiffs's demands that the names of all persons ever shooting at Peacemaker National Training Center, along with the specific firearms and equipment used. Check it out: https://www.facebook.com/PNTCWV/posts/1267140163332598

Aggravating formatting issues aside, this ha apparently drawn the attention of Allen West:
http://www.allenbwest.com/allen/lefts-assault-second-amendment-just-got-personal

 

[ArmyJerry]

I am opposed to using this shitty biased go fund me company but I did because I used this facility when I lived in the heart of enemy territory in DC and because the people that run this place are quite good and very nice. If you are anywhere in the NC, Southern Aa or Ohio area i urge you to go visit and send a few bucks today.

 

[ZenBiker990]

Jerry, I agree about GoFundMe; I wasn't even considering that when I passed this news on. Was more concerned about the situation they are in with people that don't even live in the same state, etc. Probably just as good to send a check directly to Peacemaker.

 

[NovaHunter]

I've been a member at the range for a few years now. Shooting my first PRS match this weekend there.

The Lawsuit is complete BS. It's actually worse than just names of people who have shot there. Plantiff's are asking for:

All member files
- All waivers from any person who has accessed PNTC, to include all law enforcement, federal agency personnel, military personnel and foreign military personnel names
- All shooting competition files and lists
- All training information and lists
- All customer waivers
- Identities of all persons who have used PNTC ranges
- All ATF & NFA records (to include Forms 4473 and ATF bound book information)

The judge agreed and ordered Peacemaker to produce the above documents.

I donated to the fund. Definitely encourage anyone else that wants to help out to donate as well.

Ryan

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[ArmyJerry]

who is funding these assholes that are suing?

 

[Sixfivesavage]

I don't understand why they are requesting all these documents much less why the judge is ordering the production of these records by PNTC. What does any of that have to do with a noise grievance?

 

[NovaHunter]

I don't understand why they are requesting all these documents much less why the judge is ordering the production of these records by PNTC. What does any of that have to do with a noise grievance?

Oh Absolutely nothing. It's a complete fishing expedition, IMHO. Not surprising as the anti-gunners have tried this before with other shooting ranges. The surprising part to me was the judge basically agreeing with the plantiff's and ordering that all these docs be produced.

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[ZenBiker990]

West Virginia is my home state, but I never spent any time in the northeastern panhandle. Too close to DC; guess some of the liberal jurists have slipped in. I'd like to propose a wall...

edit to add: if my name was in the list to be hand d over, I would file a countersuit demanding the plaintiff showncause as to why they need my personal information and what equipment I used. As someone mentioned, the money trail and the plaintiff's relationship to the judge will tell the whole story.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

I'm sure I'm on the list since I've been there once for a frontier Friday. I'd like to know why they need my information.

 

[NovaHunter]

West Virginia is my home state, but I never spent any time in the northeastern panhandle. Too close to DC; guess some of the liberal jurists have slipped in. I'd like to propose a wall...

edit to add: if my name was in the list to be hand d over, I would file a countersuit demanding the plaintiff showncause as to why they need my personal information and what equipment I used. As someone mentioned, the money trail and the plaintiff's relationship to the judge will tell the whole story.

I have heard a few members are looking into filing a countersuit, but I haven't heard definitive plans yet



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[TheGerman]

There's a simple solution to when individuals want to cause problems for others 'because reasons'.

The solution is knowing that these people are doing something illegal; its not a matter of if, but what and when. With all the bullshit laws and whatever we have, I'm willing to bet someone is living in a glass house and doesn't know it or is dumb enough to think they can survive with a microscope up their ass.

This avenue would probably be the best way to go about this rather than reasoning in court, after countless amounts of money are spent.

 

[ZenBiker990]

There's a simple solution to when individuals want to cause problems for others 'because reasons'.

The solution is knowing that these people are doing something illegal; its not a matter of if, but what and when. With all the bullshit laws and whatever we have, I'm willing to bet someone is living in a glass house and doesn't know it or is dumb enough to think they can survive with a microscope up their ass.

This avenue would probably be the best way to go about this rather than reasoning in court, after countless amounts of money are spent.

Agreed, but I'm not sure of the exact nature of your solution. When the "judges" of corrupt laws are themselves corrupt, what avenue is left open? Who do we expose them to that will care enough to intervene? The concepts of "morals and ethics" and "legalality" parted company long ago.

 

[TheGerman]

Agreed, but I'm not sure of the exact nature of your solution. When the "judges" of corrupt laws are themselves corrupt, what avenue is left open? Who do we expose them to that will care enough to intervene? The concepts of "morals and ethics" and "legalality" parted company long ago.

This is being brought forth by an individual(s), that have decided to be whiny bitch babies, correct?

Judge doesn't matter. My point is, I am sure these individuals have something to hide. If I was defending something like this, I wouldn't just defend the legal case, I'd find something to make it completely go away.

There's a skeleton in the closet somewhere.

 

[ZenBiker990]

There's a skeleton in the closet somewhere.

The logic here has escaped me despite many hours of nonlinear thought. The phrase "skeetons in the closet" denotes a hidden, shameful secret.

If the plaintiffs have something to hide, why are they airing their laundry in public and therefore drawinf attention to themselves? The only conclusions I can arrive at are too twisted to survive scrutiny for long. Some sort of long con is the only conclusion I can say in public without expectations of being handed a tin foil hat...

Occam's Razor: they live in a bedroom community of DC. Probably well heeled. Know a lawyer of similar viewa, may be lawyers themselves. The Real Problem here is hidden behind the problems this causes for Peacemaker. As well as the violation of member privacy. Significant enough in their own right to throw a deep smokescreen around the End Game. It's the issue that the plaintiffs are in a different state. The camel is sticking its nose under the tent, guys. What if, and purely hypothetically, a party in one state set a precedent claiming grievance caused by firearms used entirely in another state? And/Or, a party in one state, claiming grievance due to firearm use conducted entirely in another state, can subpoena firearms owner info? Can anyone see the problem there?

I'm in for the Long Con.

 

[NovaHunter]

The logic here has escaped me despite many hours of nonlinear thought. The phrase "skeetons in the closet" denotes a hidden, shameful secret.

If the plaintiffs have something to hide, why are they airing their laundry in public and therefore drawinf attention to themselves? The only conclusions I can arrive at are too twisted to survive scrutiny for long. Some sort of long con is the only conclusion I can say in public without expectations of being handed a tin foil hat...

Occam's Razor: they live in a bedroom community of DC. Probably well heeled. Know a lawyer of similar viewa, may be lawyers themselves. The Real Problem here is hidden behind the problems this causes for Peacemaker. As well as the violation of member privacy. Significant enough in their own right to throw a deep smokescreen around the End Game. It's the issue that the plaintiffs are in a different state. The camel is sticking its nose under the tent, guys. What if, and purely hypothetically, a party in one state set a precedent claiming grievance caused by firearms used entirely in another state? And/Or, a party in one state, claiming grievance due to firearm use conducted entirely in another state, can subpoena firearms owner info? Can anyone see the problem there?

I'm in for the Long Con.

Peacemaker is primarily in WVA, but I believe some of the property is in VA. Don't know the exact parts. If you look on google maps, it looks like the 100 yard sight in range straddles the state borders.

Some good news, PNTC sent an email to us members a few days ago saying a motion to intervene made by a member was granted by the court. Thus, it looks like private member information is safe for now.

More to come I am sure.

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[ZenBiker990]

Good news. I put a deposit down to get in line for a membership.