Pilgrim's Progress - Shooting Standing Offhand at 42m

[rick137]

As I have said in many posts shooting standing offhand is my true love. As the target shows, it is an unrequited love. But faint heart never won fair maid.

The rig is a Vudoo 22LR with Gen 2 FCU and an 18" Proof CF barrel with Kukri Contour. Stock is a Grayboe Phoenix with a Vudoo DBM bottom metal inlet. With Vudoo DBM bottom metal Vudoo mags fit like the door on a bank vault. Actual mag is a 5 shot Vudoo aluminum so I can hold at the balance point. Scope is a Leupold AR Mark 4 1.5-4 which I run at 4x. Rings are Leupold 1.5" for ergonomics. Bix'nAndy 2-stage TacSport Pro with Gator shoe, with second stage pull weight about 6oz. Ammo is Midas+ lot tested at LPTC. Strap is because any rig being used for positional shooting without a strap looks ridiculous. Weight is 9.1lb.

To state the obvious this rig is a lot more accurate than I can shoot it, which is just what I want. The dispersion of the bullet holes is marksmanship dispersion.

Target rings are 0.1 mrad appropriate for 42m. Large white rings are at 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 mrad. Edge of disk is 4.0 mrad.

The Pilgrim's Progress is to first keep all 50 shots within the black disk, i.e. 4.0 mrad. That accomplished, keep all 50 without the 3.0 mrad ring, and so forth until...? Given my age I am in a race with the Grim Reaper and I do not mean an UAV.

Target 5 was first target with 50 shots so 4 shots short of my initial goal. Will post again when have kept all 50 within 4.0 mrad.

Finally, at my range when I shoot in morning is dead calm. Could not have any better environmental conditions in a tunnel.

 

[Cowpokey]

My "standing unsupported" game used to be good, but as I creep close to 50 trips (in a few months) around the sun, it has faded.

 

[1588]

Interesting concept. During warmer weather, May through October, I shoot 50 meter offhand matches at our local gun club using a CZ 452 with iron sights. I can see where optics will make the sight wobble area look even worse and you have to train yourself to get use to it.

I'll have to give this a try with a scoped rifle.

 

[rick137]

Interesting concept. During warmer weather, May through October, I shoot 50 meter offhand matches at our local gun club using a CZ 452 with iron sights. I can see where optics will make the sight wobble area look even worse and you have to train yourself to get use to it.

I'll have to give this a try with a scoped rifle.

@1588:

Shooting standing offhand with iron sights is the ultimate challenge particularly if the rear sight is a notch. Next up the ladder is a rear peep sight. With a variable power scope how your accuracy depends on magnification is a "tuning" process. My rule-of-thumb is highest magnification for which wobble is not distracting given target acquisition is not the primary variable.

Rick

 

[MajorD]

I shoot offhand silhouette when I can and getting a 10/10 run on any of the chickens pigs turkeys or rams has eluded me. Have managed 5 straight a bunch of times, and 9/10 is a fairly common occurrence. I am currently using a simple cheap savage mark II and I don’t see my equipment holding me back. My club also does a benchrest silhouette match with 1/5 scale targets, and have managed a perfect 40/40 score a couple times. I am shooting off a cheap Chinese knockoff of the Harris bipod.
I am in the process of upgrading equipment right now, but don’t see that for silhouette at least making a huge difference.

 

[rick137]

I shoot offhand silhouette when I can and getting a 10/10 run on any of the chickens pigs turkeys or rams has eluded me. Have managed 5 straight a bunch of times, and 9/10 is a fairly common occurrence. I am currently using a simple cheap savage mark II and I don’t see my equipment holding me back. My club also does a benchrest silhouette match with 1/5 scale targets, and have managed a perfect 40/40 score a couple times. I am shooting off a cheap Chinese knockoff of the Harris bipod.
I am in the process of upgrading equipment right now, but don’t see that for silhouette at least making a huge difference.

@MajorD:

Shooting standing offhand it is you, you, you! Love it or leave it!

 

[1588]

@1588:

Shooting standing offhand with iron sights is the ultimate challenge particularly if the rear sight is a notch. Next up the ladder is a rear peep sight. With a variable power scope how your accuracy depends on magnification is a "tuning" process. My rule-of-thumb is highest magnification for which wobble is not distracting given target acquisition is not the primary variable.

Rick

Most of the shooting I do is offhand with old rifles, such as the 1903 Springfield, M24/47 Mauser, 1888 Trapdoor, etc. The notch sights are definitely a challenge, but who doesn't like a challenge?

I recently dusted off a couple of .22 rifles that haven't seen much use in the past several years and am looking for ideas in the rimfire threads to push myself.

 

[rick137]

Progress and a few changes.

Decided to have a 2 x 25 COF rather than a 1 x 50 due to multiple overlapping bullet holes. Secondly, changed scope to add a bit of weight, 9.1lb to 9.5lb, and have greater magnification range. Started at 4x,now at 5x. My understanding is the ideal magnification is the maximum you can hold steady given rapid target acquisition is not important.

Still do not have a clean target, i.e. no holes > 4.0mrad from AP. I call them embarrassments. The embarrassment on 2022-04-08-01 was a PTP, premature trigger pull. Overrode my "muscle memory" with BSC, brain short circuit. The cause of the one on 2022-04-08-02 is probably also marksmanship but I was surprised to see it since call every shot. Is it possible that a Vudoo with lot tested Midas+ ammo could create a flyer?

On the other side I have three bionics, shots lying within 0.3mrad from AP, best edge scoring.

Perhaps this week will bring a clean target.

 

[rick137]

Best results to date. All shots not only in the black but within the 3.0mrad disk. However only 25 shots. To maximize marksmanship practice mounted rifle for every shot even though rifle is a repeater with a five shot magazine. In fact, following the dictum that never take a shot if doesn’t feel right, actually mounted the rifle about forty times. At end of COF losing ability to concentrate. If fact two, of the four shots in the 2mrad to 3mrad ring were in the last three shots of the day.

The shooting required about forty-five minutes as I checked through a list of procedures for each shot. Adopt stance and mount rifle-check NPA and butt stock weld-relax shoulders-check support hand hold-relax support hand-check support arm pressure on chest-check cheek weld position and pressure-check position of trigger finger on shoe and position of other trigger fingers on pistol grip-check all fingers on trigger hand relaxed-compact the hold-load the rifle by pushing on the butt stock-wait until rifle settles at correct position relative to target-check all elements still relaxed-take deep breath and exhale quickly and smoothly-begin respiratory pause-swing rifle until pointing at bullseye-break shot while continuing the support.

To load a rifle when shooting standing offhand can push backwards with support hand or forward with shoulder. I prefer the shoulder push since same “mental feel” as when shooting supported with bipod and bag. Obviously correct force has the same value whichever way.

Config has changed since began shooting. Swapped out Leupold for a Swaro scope. Had targets printed on cardstock rather than paper and changed from fifty to twenty-five shots per target to lessen ambiguities in bullet hole locations.

Also started dry firing with increased weight to strengthen support muscles. A sling with lead weights added 2.7 pounds, increasing weight from shooting weight of 9.6lb to a practice weight of 12.3lb. The advantage of using weights on a QD sling is ease of removing extra weight and can position lead to maintain balance.

 

[ForgeValley]

You've got me wanting to dust off the old 22 and give this a try. I love offhand as well but been doing the field shooting and elr thing so much in the last 5 years I'm sure my skills are weak.

 

[Manning5R]

Rimfirecentral has a long running offhand challenge match that uses the NRA A-23 targets. 50 shots at 25 yards, or 25 @ 50. scoped or irons. The black of the A-23 is just under 4".

Offhand Rifle Match

25 Yard Offhand 500/50X ? Any Gun, Any Ammo

www.rimfirecentral.com

 

[justin amateur]

Hey Rick....lose the scope.

I know, that's not me talking.
I was watching another old coot this morning,
shooting offhand standing at the 50 yard range.
I'm set up on the bench two lanes to his left,
surreptitiously eyeballing his target as he cycled through 10 shots.

He was keeping them in the black, shot after shot.
Basic factory 10/22 with a cheap CenterPoint Red Dot on the dovetails.
When I asked about it, was informed the scope provides too much info and weight.
With the basic cheap hud red dot, overlaying the dot on the bull and timing the squeeze
to the vertical tracking onto center, minimizes overthinking, and muscle memory takes over.

Makes sense to me, but my offhand skills reek, so there's that.

 

[smoothy8500]

when shooting standing offhand can push backwards with support hand or forward with shoulder. I prefer the shoulder push....

You're doing quite well. Have you considered trying more of the "classic" standing position? Sounds like you are incorporating some aspects of proper bone support, ie "pressure of arm on chest". However, the act of using any muscles will introduce tension and movement. Even without our use of coats and gloves its still comes down to bone support creating a " platform ".

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/mattemmonstips.pdf

Edit: maybe this link works better?

You are being redirected...

 

[acudaowner]

standing shooting off hand shooting or just up right Id call it a win if I did not just fall over at this point in my life .. God bless every day above ground I will take as many of them as I can get .

 

[RichJ]

Just adding this here

 

[RichJ]

Really no comment on Kirsten tapping an egg at 300 yards...........offhand.
73 yrs old and I’m ecstatic when I keep 8 out of 10 in the black @ 25 yards with aperture sights.........more satisfying than a dime size group off the bench at 50.

Rich

 

[rick137]

Rimfirecentral has a long running offhand challenge match that uses the NRA A-23 targets. 50 shots at 25 yards, or 25 @ 50. scoped or irons. The black of the A-23 is just under 4".

Offhand Rifle Match

25 Yard Offhand 500/50X ? Any Gun, Any Ammo

www.rimfirecentral.com

@ManningSR:

I tried that several years ago. Gave up since could never break 200 which is an embarrassing score.

Rick

 

[smoothy8500]

Offhand or "awful hand" as many joke, just takes some dry fire practice. It's amazing how much a little time (15 minutes) spent twice a week snapping in on a little dot on the wall improves it. At first the front sight or scope hairs are all over the place. As muscle control improves, so does the subconscious control between the eyes and trigger finger. The rifle swings less, the sight stays longer on target. You will soon notice the finger "knows" when to pull the trigger.

 

[rick137]

Hey Rick....lose the scope.

I know, that's not me talking.
I was watching another old coot this morning,
shooting offhand standing at the 50 yard range.
I'm set up on the bench two lanes to his left,
surreptitiously eyeballing his target as he cycled through 10 shots.

He was keeping them in the black, shot after shot.
Basic factory 10/22 with a cheap CenterPoint Red Dot on the dovetails.
When I asked about it, was informed the scope provides too much info and weight.
With the basic cheap hud red dot, overlaying the dot on the bull and timing the squeeze
to the vertical tracking onto center, minimizes overthinking, and muscle memory takes over.

Makes sense to me, but my offhand skills reek, so there's that.

@justin amateur

Several excellent points but as usual I do not entirely agree with you.

First. The question that came to mind was the obvious, what was the diameter of the target, presuming it was circular?

Second: How long had the old coot been shooting? Like the old saying goes, "You never forget how to ride a bicycle." Probably once having established "muscle memory", it stays with you for ever. May get a bit rusty and require a bit of practice to fully resurrect but it's there.

Third: I shot with a Sako Quad and Red Dot for years, reaching "peak" in summer of 2018. Maybe now almost back to my former "peak". Until I regained my senses I was seduced by supported shooting. Totally agree for standing offhand shooting at 50yd a Red Dot is more than adequate.

Fourth: One maxim of offhand shooting is to shoot with the heaviest rifle you can hold steady. Physics says that the the greater the mass the greater the moment of inertia so the less angular acceleration for a given torque. Angular acceleration leads to angular displacement, i.e. the barrel pointing in a direction displaced from center of target. One criterion for estimating if can hold rifle steady is being able to hold rifle with support arm at arms length for a minute without undue muscle tremors. The other method is to start with the lightest rifle possible and add weight with a sling, heavier magazine, heavier scope, or heavier stock/chassis using weights or another stock/chassis. I chose the heavier scope since it also has a greater magnification range, which brings me to next point. Right now I am at 9.6lb. However there is another factor in addition to being able to hold steady and that is the weight your back can support. More likely the appropriate variable is torque. Hoping that dry firing with weighted sling will allow me to go to heavier weight for 50 rounds if I can maintain the required concentration that long. Nothing I know of can increase concentration. Certainly not those bullshit pills advertised ad nauseum on TV.

Fifth: Another maximum of offhand shooting, if shooting with a scope, is to shoot with the highest magnification that you can hold steady. Another old saying is "You should be able to hit it if you can see it". I would extend that to " You should be able to hit better if you can see it better." The Leupold I used, sorry ran at first, had a range of 1.5 to 4 power. A fine lightweight scope. The Swaro has a range 3.5 to 28 power. Right now I am at 5 power. A few hints suggest accomplished standing offhand shooters can go as high as 8 power.

Sixth: Totally agree about overthinking. I will restraint myself from ranting that the term "muscle memory" is totally incorrect. What people call "muscle memory" is really the subconscious. Just like I have given up ranting that people use the term "muzzle velocity" when the correct term is muzzle speed. Ever seen a traffic sign that said muzzle velocity 50mph? Velocity is a vector which has both magnitude, i.e. speed, and direction. So muzzle velocity of a bullet refers to speed of the bullet at the muzzle and the direction the bullet is orientated when it left the barrel. But I apologize for digressing. The subconsciousness operates in parallel with the conscious. The subconscious operates faster than the conscious but is overridden by the conscious. What I try to emulate is the old time countdown sequence for rocket launches. At a certain point, about T Minus 5, launch director would announce control had gone over to the automatic sequencer. So after going through all my checks and and exhaling the deep breath try to turn over control to the subconscious, the automatic sequencer in my brain. Nothing but looking at the crosshairs of the scope as they swing towards the center of the target until reach center and my trigger finger breaks the shot. Some might call it going into zombie mode. If a conscious thought intercedes the accuracy of the shot will suffer big time. Take my word for that or it is safe, at least to a certain degree, to try at home on the range.

As always good shooting.

Rick

 

[rick137]

You're doing quite well. Have you considered trying more of the "classic" standing position? Sounds like you are incorporating some aspects of proper bone support, ie "pressure of arm on chest". However, the act of using any muscles will introduce tension and movement. Even without our use of coats and gloves its still comes down to bone support creating a " platform ".

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/mattemmonstips.pdf

Edit: maybe this link works better?

You are being redirected...

@smoothy8500

Thanks for the compliment. Better than some, worse than others. Remember the line on an old TV Western, "Never a horse that couldn't be rode, never a man that couldn't be throwed". And takes for the tip. I was afraid I might get banned for discussing marksmanship in the wrong forum. Part of my reason for this thread is to encourage people to share their knowledge of marksmanship beyond the usual such as NPA, trigger control and breathing.

You can improve your accuracy standing offhand shooting with a quality rifle, stock/chassis, scope and ammo. Fortunately cannot buy marksmanship but have to earn it. However, like beauty, brain power, athletic prowess and everything else some people have a natural advantage. Anatomy is one. I have both short arms and small hands. I know the classic standing offhand position of thrusting your hip upward to achieve bone-to-bone contact with elbow of your shooting arm. The young lady in the video @RichJ posted has that advantage. I would have said anatomy but you would have gotten the wrong idea. However, no can do.

As I said in the post, the last item on my check list before the deep breath is checking both hands and back are relaxed. But it is a great reason for an excuse. If I had bone-to-bone I could hit a dime at 300yd nine out of ten times.

Rick

 

[rick137]

standing shooting off hand shooting or just up right Id call it a win if I did not just fall over at this point in my life .. God bless every day above ground I will take as many of them as I can get .

@acudaowner

Your comment the most profound.

My favorite Latin saying is:

Mors certa
Hora incerta

Death is certain
The time is uncertain

We all have a book of days and that book has a finite number of pages.

Rick

 

[obx22]

I’ve had a bout with coaching, I suck as a teacher. All I can do is share what works for me.
Standing is my game, from squirrel hunting, to silhouette, to precision 3-4P to the modern MARS game. In every case I’ll always opt for the highest magnification possible and still be able to find the blessed target. That means getting the view of a single silhouette animal or bullseye depending on the target, then focusing on the exact spot on that target I want to hit. I rarely actually hit that spot, but most times I’m close enough to still score a hit. That magnification shows you EVERYTHING you are doing wrong, and forces you to find a good position with natural point of aim. That’s how you develop “muscle memory” in the first place. Once there, it’s learning the threshold of “acceptable”, and getting on the trigger. It took 5 minutes with a SCATT trainer to learn I was blowing it by holding too long.
Shoot well sir

 

[rick137]

Just adding this here

@RichJ

If Volquartsen firearms are as good as their videos, Volquartsen is a worthy competitor to Kidd. What can beat a very attractive young lady who is also a superb offhand shooter.

We are kindred spirits in terms of shooting. As I tell the 'resters, supported shooting is to standing offhand shooting as walking holding your girlfriend's hand is to having sex with her.

Rick

 

[rick137]

I’ve had a bout with coaching, I suck as a teacher. All I can do is share what works for me.
Standing is my game, from squirrel hunting, to silhouette, to precision 3-4P to the modern MARS game. In every case I’ll always opt for the highest magnification possible and still be able to find the blessed target. That means getting the view of a single silhouette animal or bullseye depending on the target, then focusing on the exact spot on that target I want to hit. I rarely actually hit that spot, but most times I’m close enough to still score a hit. That magnification shows you EVERYTHING you are doing wrong, and forces you to find a good position with natural point of aim. That’s how you develop “muscle memory” in the first place. Once there, it’s learning the threshold of “acceptable”, and getting on the trigger. It took 5 minutes with a SCATT trainer to learn I was blowing it by holding too long.
Shoot well sir

obx22:

That respiratory pause factor. Body doesn't care about shooting if thinks you are suffocating. I have gone to taking two or three short breaths before deep inhale to extend the time of the pause.

Shoot well to you sir!

Rick

 

[obx22]

obx22:

That respiratory pause factor. Body doesn't care about shooting if thinks you are suffocating. I have gone to taking two or three short breaths before deep inhale to extend the time of the pause.

Shoot well to you sir!

Rick

I used to do that, floods the bod with oxygen, including those oxygen hungry eyes, but now days I just wait for a natural respiratory pause. Only what works for me, as they say- you do you

 

[rick137]

I used to do that, floods the bod with oxygen, including those oxygen hungry eyes, but now days I just wait for a natural respiratory pause. Only what works for me, as they say- you do you

@obx22

There is the natural respiratory you mention, the deep breath and full exhale, the several normal inhales and exhales before the deep breath and the deep breath and partial exhale.

Whatever you choose eventually it leaves you breathless.

Rick

 

[Tiger_Shilone]

Good on you rick137! Standing offhand is hard, but very satisfying.

I have finally moved up to AAA class in nra silhouette after almost 5 years. We shoot targets at fixed ranges of 46,65, 84 and 109 yards ( metric 40,60,77,100 meters) in smallbore scoped 22. These targets range in size of about 3-5 MOA (not Mils) and are 1/5 scale. On average I am hitting 60-70% of targets at a match and that is very competitive. Most people are using magnification of 18-25x, but my scores improved considerably when I backed magnification down to 12-14x. The perceived wobble zone shrank for me doing that. Of course all the other basics of NPOA, breathing, trigger control and body mechanics still apply.

I have also started doing lever action silhouette matches with iron sights. The targets are way bigger at half scale and I use aperture sights front/back. I feel that the sights are way steadier with no magnification and I usually score higher than the scope matches, go figure.

Point is that practice makes perfect, keep doing what you are doing. Also, come out to a silo match in your area. Most groups are desperate for new shooters and very helpful. I learn a lot faster when I can see what other people are doing, why they do it, and if I can use that info. What I have learned in silhouette has helped me a lot in prs/nrl style matches.

Again, good for you. Most shooters throw a fit over a offhand stage in a match. I kind of like it. The 20lb+ barricade benchrest rig shooters enjoy offhand a lot, lol.

my dedicated Anschutz silo rifle, and my Vudoo “trying to do it all” also used in silo, targets and set up.

 

[Tiger_Shilone]

I forgot to mention that silhoutte is becoming my favorite match as it is very light on equipment to bring and set up. Rifle, ammo, bag with clipboard, couple tools, PPE and a shooting vest. Targets are usually range property and stay at the range. Fortunately in the Denver area there is a fairly active group with three different ranges actively having matches, I can shoot 3-4x a month in this discipline.

Also pics of the lever actions, 22 rimfire and 22 mag for the pistol caliber match. The lever guns are a lot of fun and so simple. I swap the cheek piece between rifles, otherwise my cheek weld is a chin weld. The only modification is adding skate tape on the fore arm and the bottom of the lever so my fingers don’t slip when sweating. Sights are lyman 17 with.580” rise on front and williams groove mount with target knobs for the rear.

 

[Manning5R]

AAA is badass, good job. I'm still a low AA shooter, but ever so slowly improving.

 

[rick137]

Good on you rick137! Standing offhand is hard, but very satisfying.

I have finally moved up to AAA class in nra silhouette after almost 5 years. We shoot targets at fixed ranges of 46,65, 84 and 109 yards ( metric 40,60,77,100 meters) in smallbore scoped 22. These targets range in size of about 3-5 MOA (not Mils) and are 1/5 scale. On average I am hitting 60-70% of targets at a match and that is very competitive. Most people are using magnification of 18-25x, but my scores improved considerably when I backed magnification down to 12-14x. The perceived wobble zone shrank for me doing that. Of course all the other basics of NPOA, breathing, trigger control and body mechanics still apply.

I have also started doing lever action silhouette matches with iron sights. The targets are way bigger at half scale and I use aperture sights front/back. I feel that the sights are way steadier with no magnification and I usually score higher than the scope matches, go figure.

Point is that practice makes perfect, keep doing what you are doing. Also, come out to a silo match in your area. Most groups are desperate for new shooters and very helpful. I learn a lot faster when I can see what other people are doing, why they do it, and if I can use that info. What I have learned in silhouette has helped me a lot in prs/nrl style matches.

Again, good for you. Most shooters throw a fit over a offhand stage in a match. I kind of like it. The 20lb+ barricade benchrest rig shooters enjoy offhand a lot, lol.

my dedicated Anschutz silo rifle, and my Vudoo “trying to do it all” also used in silo, targets and set up.

View attachment 7866554View attachment 7866555View attachment 7866556View attachment 7866557

@Tiger_Shilone

Good intel. I did a bit of research on silo so I presume the Vudoo is for Hunter Class and the Anschutz for Standard Class. My Vudoo would be in the Standard Class at 9.0lb after removing the front and rear flip-up lens caps. Trigger pull weight is about 6oz to 8oz so that would also put me in the Standard Class. A Bix'nAndy 2-stage TacSport Pro trigger will go to 3oz so as educate my trigger trigger will try to lower pull force. Downside is PTP, premature trigger pulls, are more probable when brain short-circuits.

I know it is hard to impossible to quantify precisely but could you estimate how much a shooting jacket helps your accuracy. I try to wear tight fitting shirt and jacket to have maximum consistency in my shoulder position and pressure.

Rick

 

[rick137]

I forgot to mention that silhoutte is becoming my favorite match as it is very light on equipment to bring and set up. Rifle, ammo, bag with clipboard, couple tools, PPE and a shooting vest. Targets are usually range property and stay at the range. Fortunately in the Denver area there is a fairly active group with three different ranges actively having matches, I can shoot 3-4x a month in this discipline.

Also pics of the lever actions, 22 rimfire and 22 mag for the pistol caliber match. The lever guns are a lot of fun and so simple. I swap the cheek piece between rifles, otherwise my cheek weld is a chin weld. The only modification is adding skate tape on the fore arm and the bottom of the lever so my fingers don’t slip when sweating. Sights are lyman 17 with.580” rise on front and williams groove mount with target knobs for the rear.
View attachment 7866573

@Tiger_Shilone:

I presume you are using, sorry running, a peep sight. I find shooting with blade-notch iron sights impossible. What a revolution peep sights must have been.

 

[rick137]

After reading @Tiger_Shilone's posts decided to try a different scope power. Everything is same for Targets 29 and 30 except for the power. Target 29 shot with standard 5 power and Target 30 with experimental 10 power.

@Tiger_Shilone stated that silo target sizes are about 3 MOA(0.86mrad) and 5MOA(1.45mrad). Targets 29 and 30 shot at standard 42m(46yd). For Target 29 28% shots of <3MOA and 48% shots < 5 MOA. For Target 30 36% shots < 3MOA and 48% shots < 5 MOA. I was surprised that I shot the same statistically as well at 10 power as at 5 power. The red dot was jumping around at 10 power and not in a predictable pattern but like a random walk. And the jumps were sudden so your trigger finger had to be at the ready for seconds before the dot settled for an instant on the bulls eye. That led to one PTP, premature trigger pull.

Yesterday wanted to see if could run with the big dogs so target at 90m(98yd) and scope at 12 power. Well, they say you never know your limit until you go past it and I was past it big time. For Target 90-2 shots <3MOA 24% and shots < 5MOA 32%.

Target 30 had the cleanest bullet holes I have ever seen. All targets are printed on cardstock and the backing is double wall cardboard. A light to moderate rain had been falling before shot so both the target and backing were damp.

 

[Tiger_Shilone]

Rick, don't sell yourself short! your 98 yard target is competitive in silhouette as is. As are the other two. Standing is very hard, few do it.

As to my scope rifles above, both meet the hunter classification criteria of a 2+lb trigger, less than 8.51 lbs, tapered barrel and classic stock lines. both use a two stage trigger set at 2.1 and 2.4 lbs total, half in each stage. I don't use less than 2 lbs total triggers on any of my rifles anymore, guess I am used to it and the safety factor is there for field use. Your rifle is great for standard class, and unless there is prize money involved or a state match nobody cares if you use it for hunter as well----until you start winning regularly, then they will start to whine. The vudoo has been challenged on all of the above and successfully passed each time. Some people just cant stand anything that isn't polished wood and blued steel.

Yes, The two lever guns are using peep/aperture sights. Notch and post don't have enough fine adjustment for my needs IMO. Some guys run notch/post, but they don't win very often from what I have observed. Aperture sights are almost too easy: center up all the circles and put the target in the middle and squeeze!

My shooting vest is a hardscrabble all leather unit, very heavy with a large shoulder pad. My buttstocks have skate tape on the lower half of them and they stick in the shoulder well. Between the leather pad and the tape the stock isn't going anywhere and I can get a good cheekweld with pressure.

Another huge learning item that helped scores was bringing the gun up to my head instead of lowering my head over down to it. If your head is bent over it screws with your equilibrium and you are not as stable, plus you get a larger sight picture instead of the top inboard corner of your eye socket. I literally have just the bottom inch of the stock in my shoulder pocket, the rest is exposed above my shoulder. I still lean the head a little, but forward, not to the side. forward lean establishes my cheek weld. This is also why I have fairly high scope rings compared to most ppl. As Lowlight says, make the rifle fit you.

I generally see where every shot goes, there isn't much recoil and a proper stance mitigates it. The bullets always go where the rifle is pointed, I just need to keep it in the target. My target wobble zone has shrunk from about 5x the size of the target to about 2.5-3x the size of the target and I like to shoot when the sights are falling down across the target, not tracking left or right if possible. Great theory, works about 1/4 of the time if I'm lazy. But if I concentrate and focus it works closer to 3/4, but I'm a lazy shooter a lot of times.

 

[Tiger_Shilone]

Here are a couple pics from an Appleseed clinic and my garage. Look at how high instructor has demo stock in shoulder pocket

 

[rick137]

After @Tiger_Shilone posts a number of changes.

Investigated ranges with silhouette matches in Oregon. Closest is 2.5-hour drive so a bit far. Thus created two SimShil targets as shown below. First results are: 28% in 3MOA disk and 44% in 5 MOA disk at 46yd and 24% in 3MOA disk and 52% in 5 MOA disk at 98yd. A starting point.

Experimented with 12x and 10x powers. Disaster Those powers bumfuzzled my brain. It was as if the rifle was being jerked around in a random fashion by unseen and evil powers. However increased power from 5x to 6x since want the highest power can hold steady. Perhaps can keep increasing power one step at a time.

Experimenting with placement of buttstock on my shoulder. Currently placement in just the same position as @Tiger_Shilone but need more targets before can say anything statistically significant. Physics says placement should be such as to minimize the torque due to the shoulder reaction force by minimizing the lever arm between the shoulder reaction force and the center-of-mass of the rifle. However, it seems ergonomics dictates the optimal placement of the buttstock. And, if the torque created by the shoulder reaction force is consistent in location and direction, the POA – POI offset can by negated by an elevation adjustment.

 

[Tiger_Shilone]

Finally found this picture, it has the silhouette target dimensions in MOA for each target. This is across all forms of silhouett: hi power , smallbore, lever, pistol, black powder.

 

[rick137]

I tape the target to double wall cardboard and use bungee cords to fasten the cardboard to the target stand. By taping several targets in the same location on the cardboard can get a lazy man's composite. In the attached image are 125 shots. Nothing to write home about but composite does show the windage and elevation are correct.