Pin and weld suppressor?

[TonyAngel]

I have an idea bouncing around in my head and wanted to get a few opinions.

My favorite rig is based on a 12.5" Criterion Hybrid barrel. Next to my "precision" rig, it's my most accurate setup. It almost seems like it goes on autopilot everytime I squeeze the trigger.

Anyway, I've never been wild about shooting suppressed, but last weekend, I got to shoot a rig with a Cobalt Kinetics suppressor on it and now, I can't get it out of my head.

What I want to do is get the direct thread model (it has an extra baffle in it), which is made of titanium and pin and weld it to my 12.5 to make 16".

Is this a mistake? When I shoot the barrel out, how ugly is it going to be removing the suppressor to put it on another barrel? I've pinned, welded and removed a lot of muzzle devices, but never a suppressor.

 

[Aftermath]

Removal of the pinned and welded muzzle device is not that difficult. Just drill with a bit that is slightly larger than your pin and drill until the weld is gone and the pin can be removed. The process is the same no matter what you have attached.

That's not the issue I'd be concerned with. What about cleaning that suppressor?

 

[cas6969]

What's the upside in doing this?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Just SBR that hooker, or run it as a pistol. Why limit That suppressor or gun to one setup for life, or at the risk of messing one up to remove it

 

[hlee]

Making a 2 stamp gun into a 1 stamp gun via a P&W is more than $200 in ass-pain over just getting the second stamp.

 

[TonyAngel]

Removal of the pinned and welded muzzle device is not that difficult. Just drill with a bit that is slightly larger than your pin and drill until the weld is gone and the pin can be removed. The process is the same no matter what you have attached.

That's not the issue I'd be concerned with. What about cleaning that suppressor?

Have you done this before? I use hardened drill rod for pin and weld. Ive tried the method of drilling out the weld, but the drill bit stops when it hits the pin leaving too much of the weld around the pin to remove it. Ive also tried following up the drilling process with an attempt at doing a plunge cut with an end mill. In any case, what works for me is using a small, worn cutting wheel on a rotary tool to grind out the weld. Maybe I can revisit your method. I havent had to do the removal process where saving the muzzle device was important very often.

Still, my concern is with working with Titanium. Are you saying that the processes remain the same? Nothing special about working with titanium? I just dont want to assume anything.

As for cleaning, per instructions from Cobalt Kinetics, cleaning requires a soak in a 50/50 mixture of simple green and water for a few hours. I have no problems with standing my upper up in a bucket every 10k rounds.

As for all of the other non productive comments that don't answer my question ....

I dont want to SBR anything. I travel across state lines often. At least a couple of times a month and I dont want to have to do a form 5320.20 everytime I do so. I want to be able to run a rifle stock because I like to use a rear bag for far away shots and pistol braces dont ride a bag for sh!t.

As for the $200 for the pin and weld, I do my own pinning and welding. 10 seconds of welding with a tig isn't going to cost me anything.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Sounds like you got your mind made up. Why even come here to ask

 

[LRRPF52]

LaRue SUURG solves that problem, but not with the suppressor you have.

It has a ventilated core that is part of the barrel, which the suppressor threads over.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Pin and weld titanium? It was a bad idea before you even got to the titanium part.

 

[TonyAngel]

Sounds like you got your mind made up. Why even come here to ask

You know? You're right. Thanks for all of the useful information.

LaRue SUURG solves that problem, but not with the suppressor you have.

It has a ventilated core that is part of the barrel, which the suppressor threads over.

That looks interesting and the muzzle device isn't stupid expensive, but I don't think those suppressors are available.

I hoped to start this thread and get some useful information. I asked whether it was a bad idea, but what I was trying to find out is if there is some property of titanium that would make this undertaking a bad idea, with my main concern being what to do when I need a new barrel.

Man, the Hide is not what it used to be.

 

[Camelfilter]

Making a 2 stamp gun into a 1 stamp gun via a P&W is more than $200 in ass-pain over just getting the second stamp.

Yup.

Stamp on his lower & any number of uppers can be run. Including rifle length if he wishes.

Pin & weld (if possible) & he's stuck with that suppressed upper until he drills the pin weld job.

Seems pretty limiting to attempt such. IMHO.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I hoped to start this thread and get some useful information. I asked whether it was a bad idea, but what I was trying to find out is if there is some property of titanium that would make this undertaking a bad idea, with my main concern being what to do when I need a new barrel.

Man, the Hide is not what it used to be.

It's a horrible idea that comes up all of the time. You asked and were very quickly told.

The one and only case this makes even a little sense is in states with SBR restrictions. Even then it's still a horrible idea. Use a pistol brace if you can't bring yourself to SBR a rifle.

 

[Aftermath]

Have you done this before? I use hardened drill rod for pin and weld. Ive tried the method of drilling out the weld, but the drill bit stops when it hits the pin leaving too much of the weld around the pin to remove it. Ive also tried following up the drilling process with an attempt at doing a plunge cut with an end mill. In any case, what works for me is using a small, worn cutting wheel on a rotary tool to grind out the weld. Maybe I can revisit your method. I havent had to do the removal process where saving the muzzle device was important very often.

Still, my concern is with working with Titanium. Are you saying that the processes remain the same? Nothing special about working with titanium? I just dont want to assume anything.

As for cleaning, per instructions from Cobalt Kinetics, cleaning requires a soak in a 50/50 mixture of simple green and water for a few hours. I have no problems with standing my upper up in a bucket every 10k rounds.

As for all of the other non productive comments that don't answer my question ....

I dont want to SBR anything. I travel across state lines often. At least a couple of times a month and I dont want to have to do a form 5320.20 everytime I do so. I want to be able to run a rifle stock because I like to use a rear bag for far away shots and pistol braces dont ride a bag for sh!t.

As for the $200 for the pin and weld, I do my own pinning and welding. 10 seconds of welding with a tig isn't going to cost me anything.

As for the removal of pin and weld, to be fair I have not drilled Titanium. You might have to reduce cutting speed. But yes, I have a brake that is on its third barrel. I use the actual bit that I drilled the hole with as my pin. I mark it, cut it a little above flush and break it off, then use it as the fill material with my little TIG torch. Or I turn the bit upside down and use the drill press to keep it down in the hole as I TIG, using the bit/pin as the fill rod. Just a spot that I leave untouched in case some retard has to see that it is welded. When I removed, I used a much larger bit, like maybe 1/4". I too have had to follow that with some abrasives...I used a small rounded bit from a dremel set in my drill press.

I've never waited for 10k rounds, I bet that would be one filthy and problematic thing to clean, especially with a barrel attached.

As for the cleaning...sure, I wouldn't care to just soak the thing while attached to the barrel if it were that simple but, in my experience, the barrel would be in the way. I soak, ultra sonic clean with heated cleaning solution, rinse, weigh, repeat until it weighs real close to when it was new. If a chunk of carbon or whatever is still loose in that can (or about to become loose due to cleaning efforts) when you next pull the trigger, and there is a high chance of that, you might imagine the problems that could create to your P/W suppressor.

AND...folks like TBAC will clean your can free once a year. I doubt they would like the barrel in the way.

You do you. I would not.

 

[ut755ln]

I have an idea bouncing around in my head and wanted to get a few opinions.

My favorite rig is based on a 12.5" Criterion Hybrid barrel. Next to my "precision" rig, it's my most accurate setup. It almost seems like it goes on autopilot everytime I squeeze the trigger.

Anyway, I've never been wild about shooting suppressed, but last weekend, I got to shoot a rig with a Cobalt Kinetics suppressor on it and now, I can't get it out of my head.

What I want to do is get the direct thread model (it has an extra baffle in it), which is made of titanium and pin and weld it to my 12.5 to make 16".

Is this a mistake? When I shoot the barrel out, how ugly is it going to be removing the suppressor to put it on another barrel? I've pinned, welded and removed a lot of muzzle devices, but never a suppressor.

I would recommend that you do not pin and weld a suppressor to a rifle. At this point, I don't think that I would entertain buying a suppressor that is not flow through and all of them are 3D printed. Like all suppressors, they need to be cleaned on occasion and welding it to the barrel would be problematic. More problematic than paying $200 for another tax stamp in my opinion. I am also not a big fan of titanium cans on AR platforms. If all you ever do is shoot slowly than I guess so but steel/Inconel cans have proved better to me on gas gun platforms.

 

[aviumvenator]

My favorite rig is based on a 12.5" Criterion Hybrid barrel.

Why do anything different than what you’ve been doing?

 

[AMGtuned]

I've got one. Don't know what all the fuss is about. Works great. Doesn't mean that my way is the highway. Fuck a can; if you don't have enough to use on more than 1 rifle at once, you just don't have enough.

 

[TonyAngel]

As for the removal of pin and weld, to be fair I have not drilled Titanium. You might have to reduce cutting speed. But yes, I have a brake that is on its third barrel. I use the actual bit that I drilled the hole with as my pin. I mark it, cut it a little above flush and break it off, then use it as the fill material with my little TIG torch. Or I turn the bit upside down and use the drill press to keep it down in the hole as I TIG, using the bit/pin as the fill rod. Just a spot that I leave untouched in case some retard has to see that it is welded. When I removed, I used a much larger bit, like maybe 1/4". I too have had to follow that with some abrasives...I used a small rounded bit from a dremel set in my drill press.

I've never waited for 10k rounds, I bet that would be one filthy and problematic thing to clean, especially with a barrel attached.

As for the cleaning...sure, I wouldn't care to just soak the thing while attached to the barrel if it were that simple but, in my experience, the barrel would be in the way. I soak, ultra sonic clean with heated cleaning solution, rinse, weigh, repeat until it weighs real close to when it was new. If a chunk of carbon or whatever is still loose in that can (or about to become loose due to cleaning efforts) when you next pull the trigger, and there is a high chance of that, you might imagine the problems that could create to your P/W suppressor.

AND...folks like TBAC will clean your can free once a year. I doubt they would like the barrel in the way.

You do you. I would not.

Hey man, thanks for the info. Yeah, there was a time when I needed to get like 5 pin and welds done. I had the pins made, the barrels dimpled and things ready to go. My local guy still wanted $100 a piece to put a Mig on em. I decided to run to harbor freight and buy a flux core welder. That thing has turned out to be a handy piece of equipment to have around the house. With decent wire, it'll put down a pretty nice weld. Most of the welding I do is not at a bench and it turned out that going gasless was a perk for me.

Still, your method sounds much better for pinning and welding. Now I have something new to learn. Thanks.

The last few comments were very helpful. Experience has taught me that nothing is as simple and easy as it's claimed to be and I should have remembered that. It appears that cleaning could get to be a problem. I'm also rethinking the notion of going titanium. I really liked the idea of a sub 5" suppressor that weighs 6 oz. I also liked the idea of the direct thread model having an extra baffle in that cobalt kinetics model.

I still want short and light, but it's starting to seem to me that my best bet will be something like a dedicated 10.5 host running something like a Polonium K on a pistol configuration.

10.5 to keep it short and a high pressure can to make the system think theres more dwell time than there actually is.

 

[Bluedog82]

Hey man, thanks for the info. Yeah, there was a time when I needed to get like 5 pin and welds done. I had the pins made, the barrels dimpled and things ready to go. My local guy still wanted $100 a piece to put a Mig on em. I decided to run to harbor freight and buy a flux core welder. That thing has turned out to be a handy piece of equipment to have around the house. With decent wire, it'll put down a pretty nice weld. Most of the welding I do is not at a bench and it turned out that going gasless was a perk for me.

Still, your method sounds much better for pinning and welding. Now I have something new to learn. Thanks.

The last few comments were very helpful. Experience has taught me that nothing is as simple and easy as it's claimed to be and I should have remembered that. It appears that cleaning could get to be a problem. I'm also rethinking the notion of going titanium. I really liked the idea of a sub 5" suppressor that weighs 6 oz. I also liked the idea of the direct thread model having an extra baffle in that cobalt kinetics model.

I still want short and light, but it's starting to seem to me that my best bet will be something like a dedicated 10.5 host running something like a Polonium K on a pistol configuration.

10.5 to keep it short and a high pressure can to make the system think theres more dwell time than there actually is.

You’re going to want adjustable gas for a Polo K on a 10.5 for sure.

 

[carbonbased]

10.5 to keep it short and a high pressure can to make the system think theres more dwell time than there actually is.

Don’t you mean a low pressure can (i.e. low back pressure flow through)?

Because if you have a high back pressure can you’re going to get slapped by a bunch of gas to the face.

Are you planning on shooting this gun fast? Long strings of fire? Mag dumping?

If so, you’re going to want an Inconel/Stellite or other fancy alloy/SS can. Titianum typically isn’t the best hard-use can material.

 

[carbonbased]

For example, this dude did some excellent suppressor tests. Full auto M249 for 100 rds so you can see how it reacts, flash tests, etc. he gets them to glow.

Start here:


Then see the vids here:

Rooftop Defense

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

m.youtube.com

 

[carbonbased]

I've got one. Don't know what all the fuss is about. Works great. Doesn't mean that my way is the highway. Fuck a can; if you don't have enough to use on more than 1 rifle at once, you just don't have enough.

View attachment 8628241
View attachment 8628242View attachment 8628243

Is that a pinned hub mount? If you wouldn’t mind, could you explain the process there? I see a couple of holes.

 

[AMGtuned]

Is that a pinned hub mount? If you wouldn’t mind, could you explain the process there? I see a couple of holes.

Yes, it is. It's a 1.375 reflex mount from

https://quelltech.shop/

They make 2 different lengths in 17-4 SS. This particular one is the 2.25".

I made a custom timing shim for the muzzle threads so the adapter would back up against the FSP perfectly. Then I drilled for the muzzle pin. The Ti adapter seen in the photos goes from 1.375 to 1.529 (1-17/32). I then lined up the tube, thread adapter, and reflex adapter, and drilled for that pin.

Muzzle adapter got the lightning gun first; 17-4 is easy, just don't burn too hot or you'll melt too much to the pin and adapter. The goal is just to keep the pin from falling out.

Then came the butthole pucker; that little tiny hole in my expensive Ti tube. I made my pins from hardened punches, drop the punch in, mark and cut. Ti is not quite as forgiving as 17-4. I made the pin a smidgen proud of the tube surface and we're off with the lightning gun again.

Can has a removable proximal cap (business end); so after all the welding was done, I dropped the stack in, and tightened her up. This particular weapon system is 9.6lbs with loaded mag, eotech, and sling. The magnifier and suppressor cover add and 1.5+/-lbs. Not bad for a suppressed 11.5. It was the preferred choice when shot beside a 10.5" 5.56 w/hybrid 46. Shorter too.

16.125" to the end of the tube.

 

[AMGtuned]

You’re going to want adjustable gas for a Polo K on a 10.5 for sure.

Increase action spring rate?
H1/H2 buffer?

I've come to realize that the AGB is not the be-all answer that some believe it to be. Now I'll admit, a heavier buffer is not necessarily the correct answer either, as it's intended use is preventing carrier bounce. But it is possible to change a combination of both; help keep the weapon timing correct, help limit gas blowback, help with ejection pattern, etc.

I'm not saying your wrong at all. I just prefer a solution with less moving parts. Sometimes "combat gassed" is best gassed. I don't want carbon fouling playing a role in weapon function any sooner than necessary, if at all.

 

[Bluedog82]

Increase action spring rate?
H1/H2 buffer?

I've come to realize that the AGB is not the be-all answer that some believe it to be. Now I'll admit, a heavier buffer is not necessarily the correct answer either, as it's intended use is preventing carrier bounce. But it is possible to change a combination of both; help keep the weapon timing correct, help limit gas blowback, help with ejection pattern, etc.

I'm not saying your wrong at all. I just prefer a solution with less moving parts. Sometimes "combat gassed" is best gassed. I don't want carbon fouling playing a role in weapon function any sooner than necessary, if at all.

The baseline buffer for a Mk18 to run unsuppressed is an H2. I would think you’d easily be able to run an H4 and probably still have a lot of gas coming back. Are you familiar with Riflespeed gas blocks? They are pretty foolproof and adjustable on the fly without any tools.

 

[AMGtuned]

The baseline buffer for a Mk18 to run unsuppressed is an H2. I would think you’d easily be able to run an H4 and probably still have a lot of gas coming back. Are you familiar with Riflespeed gas blocks? They are pretty foolproof and adjustable on the fly without any tools.

I am.

On the build I listed in this thread, it runs a H3 with what would be an "extra heavy" action spring. The baffles are double clipped, and it's actually quite comfortable to shoot. 3:00 ejection, sometimes a little forward. A2 FSP, no moving parts.

 

[TonyAngel]

Don’t you mean a low pressure can (i.e. low back pressure flow through)?

Because if you have a high back pressure can you’re going to get slapped by a bunch of gas to the face.

Are you planning on shooting this gun fast? Long strings of fire? Mag dumping?

If so, you’re going to want an Inconel/Stellite or other fancy alloy/SS can. Titianum typically isn’t the best hard-use can material.

Nah, I meant a high pressure can. I hear what you're saying about the gas in the face, but if I'm gonna go short with a 10.5 and its gonna be a dedicated host for a suppressor, I think I'd like to go with a high back pressure can.

A high pressure can mimicks, to an extent, barrel length and the effect is that the action runs as though there is more dwell time. My belief is that tuning the gas port to run in this configuration will give me a wider operational window allowing a broader range of ammunituon with reliability. Besides, if I need to go AGB, I have a couple of riflespeeds laying around.

 

[carbonbased]

Nah, I meant a high pressure can. I hear what you're saying about the gas in the face, but if I'm gonna go short with a 10.5 and its gonna be a dedicated host for a suppressor, I think I'd like to go with a high back pressure can.

A high pressure can mimicks, to an extent, barrel length and the effect is that the action runs as though there is more dwell time. My belief is that tuning the gas port to run in this configuration will give me a wider operational window allowing a broader range of ammunituon with reliability. Besides, if I need to go AGB, I have a couple of riflespeeds laying around.

Huh. Ok. I’m far from an expert in the AR gas system, so this might be a dumb question: I imagine you’re going to add a much stiffer buffer spring so the BCG doesn’t pound the system to death, right?

And either way, with a high pressure can felt recoil will increase a bunch?

I know with a PWS I used to own I couldn’t turn the gas down enough with a high-pressure can I have. Damn gun just slammed and gassed like crazy.

Of course I didn’t change the buffer spring…that gun had other problems and I returned it to Brownells. I was done effing with that thing.

Definitely not challenging you, just wondering.

 

[AMGtuned]

Nah, I meant a high pressure can. I hear what you're saying about the gas in the face, but if I'm gonna go short with a 10.5 and its gonna be a dedicated host for a suppressor, I think I'd like to go with a high back pressure can.

A high pressure can mimicks, to an extent, barrel length and the effect is that the action runs as though there is more dwell time. My belief is that tuning the gas port to run in this configuration will give me a wider operational window allowing a broader range of ammunituon with reliability. Besides, if I need to go AGB, I have a couple of riflespeeds laying around.

I dont think this line of thinking is correct. Entirely. I think an argument could be made for some of it, but its a stretch.

In comparison to dwell time; you could have a carbine gas, 18", and i don't believe that wouldn't increase the backpressure as much as the can does. I'm not a scientist, nor will I pretend to be one; but my experience varies greatly.

 

[TonyAngel]

Huh. Ok. I’m far from an expert in the AR gas system, so this might be a dumb question: I imagine you’re going to add a much stiffer buffer spring so the BCG doesn’t pound the system to death, right?

And either way, with a high pressure can felt recoil will increase a bunch?

I know with a PWS I used to own I couldn’t turn the gas down enough with a high-pressure can I have. Damn gun just slammed and gassed like crazy.

Of course I didn’t change the buffer spring…that gun had other problems and I returned it to Brownells. I was done effing with that thing.

Definitely not challenging you, just wondering.

Ok, I don't want to start a war on this subject, but using a heavier spring is not going to keep the gun from beating itself to death, although it will give the illusion of solving an over gassed situation by slowing bolt velocity. The best way to slow bolt velocity or, more accurately, keep the bolt from reaching too much velocity is by increasing the closed bolt lock time. You do that controlling the amount of gas going through the system. Heavy springs have very little to no impact on closed bolt lock time. That is controlled by gas and buffer weight. This is where adjustable gas blocks come in.

What beats the 10.5s to death in terms of bolt, cam pin and extractor wear is the action cycling before it really should.

I like to run a springco white hot spring with an H2 buffer and tune for that. This allows for reliable operation when the gun gets filthy.

I dont think this line of thinking is correct. Entirely. I think an argument could be made for some of it, but its a stretch.

In comparison to dwell time; you could have a carbine gas, 18", and i don't believe that wouldn't increase the backpressure as much as the can does. I'm not a scientist, nor will I pretend to be one; but my experience varies greatly.

Hey, I could be totally wrong and full of crap. I do know that 10.5s are a bit finicky when it comes to tuning them and they have kind of a narrow window of reliable operation while beating themselves to death.

It's just a thought ... something of a fun project. My reasoning is that by going with a 10.5 and high pressure suppressor, I hope I get a working "dwell time" similar to that of an 11.5.

Bottomline is that I think I'm gonna start with something like a .060 gas port and see if I can tune the rig to have a wider operational window with a fixed gas block. Meaning that it will be less finicky about ammo. Eh, at worst, I'll wind up with a good suppressor and just have to use an adjustable gas block.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I've never shot a 10.5", even unsuppressed, that wasn't harsh and violent. And they've all been reliable, although I'm not sure about long term parts breakage. I would never go out of my way to simulate more dwell time/recoil on one.

 

[AMGtuned]

I've never shot a 10.5", even unsuppressed, that wasn't harsh and violent. And they've all been reliable, although I'm not sure about long term parts breakage. I would never go out of my way to simulate more dwell time/recoil on one.

I almost hoped you would chime in on the dwell time topic.

 

[carbonbased]

@TonyAngel (accidentally tagged @TonyTheTiger. Too many Tony’s!)

I’m the last dude to argue about how to tune an AR lol. I’m a total idiot in that area, which is why I don’t pretend to know much at all!

For example, I was forgetting about the buffer weight part of the equation! As well as considering bolt lock time.

I could see how a heavier buffer would increase bolt lock time (as well as gas, of course).

It’s nice to talk to people who don’t fly off the handle, for sure. Thanks man! Learned something today. Which I’ll forget tomorrow lol

 

[TonyAngel]

I've never shot a 10.5", even unsuppressed, that wasn't harsh and violent. And they've all been reliable, although I'm not sure about long term parts breakage. I would never go out of my way to simulate more dwell time/recoil on one.

Well, like I said, it's just a theory. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think that more dwell time necessarily means more recoil. I mean, if you increase dwell time without adjusting gas volume/flow, then you will get more recoil, stuck cases, torn rims, etc., but my theory is that by using a high pressure can to simulate more dwell time, I think I should be able to decrease the flow of gas. Man, I'm having a hard time articulating what I'm trying to say. I may lack the vocabulary.

I'm talking about having a situation where I'll be able to limit the flow of gas without necessarily reducing the volume of gas ultimately delivered to the system. What I'm hoping to wind up with is something suppressed and short, but is as forgiving as a carbine length 14 5.

 

[03machstock]

I have a pinned and welded 300blk a one of my HD guns. They were having a sale that they paid the tax stamp, so the way I look at it I saved $400 on a gun that sits ready 99% of the time, that ill shoot once a year to make sure it functions. My next build will probably be an 11.5 or 12.5 sbr with a can (unless Don and Elon make some moves before then). IMO a gun that your going to use a lot, I want to be able to take the can off as I please, mainly for cleaning the rifles barrel, let alone the can itself.

 

[45-90]

I have no reason to pin and weld a suppressor, but carbide tooling cuts dowel pins, taps, etc.
Part of my job was getting broken form taps out of expensive parts.
I used a CNC mill for complete control...super rigid machine, precision holders, run at high speed and low, one ten thousandths feed.
Never lost a part to a broken high-speed steel tap, broken off deep into the part, all safely removed without damaging the orginial thread. Just clean the tapped hole, check depth, tap deeper if necessary, and you're good to go.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Well, like I said, it's just a theory. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think that more dwell time necessarily means more recoil. I mean, if you increase dwell time without adjusting gas volume/flow, then you will get more recoil, stuck cases, torn rims, etc., but my theory is that by using a high pressure can to simulate more dwell time, I think I should be able to decrease the flow of gas. Man, I'm having a hard time articulating what I'm trying to say. I may lack the vocabulary.

I'm talking about having a situation where I'll be able to limit the flow of gas without necessarily reducing the volume of gas ultimately delivered to the system. What I'm hoping to wind up with is something suppressed and short, but is as forgiving as a carbine length 14 5.

I think I'm picking up what you're putting down, I'm just not certain what problem you are trying to solve.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Well, like I said, it's just a theory. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think that more dwell time necessarily means more recoil. I mean, if you increase dwell time without adjusting gas volume/flow, then you will get more recoil, stuck cases, torn rims, etc., but my theory is that by using a high pressure can to simulate more dwell time, I think I should be able to decrease the flow of gas. Man, I'm having a hard time articulating what I'm trying to say. I may lack the vocabulary.

I'm talking about having a situation where I'll be able to limit the flow of gas without necessarily reducing the volume of gas ultimately delivered to the system. What I'm hoping to wind up with is something suppressed and short, but is as forgiving as a carbine length 14 5.

14.5 CLGS isn't more forgiving than shorter length CLGS. Adding more dwell time doesn't necessarily make a configuration more forgiving, arguably it can be less forgiving. You would be better off with a MLGS. If you're really dying to make CLGS smoother you'll want a SF or GA BCG, PRI Fat Boy gas tube, and heavier recoil spring. A .053" gas port will reliably run a high pressure can in that configuration with M193 or M855.