Sidearms & Scatterguns Pistol shooters, what's next?

[308pirate]

That CO guy is very smooth, especially shooting on the move!

Here's an IDPA stage design of mine back from 2016 when evil clowns were the rage on the street. I designed it with shooter's option of going right or left first after retreating in the hallway from the start position. All cardboard threat targets except for the dropout and clamshell activators were covered with clown masks and T-shirts so shooters couldn't see the scoring zones. Everyone pretty much has to call their shots on those. A hidden drop-out target appears in the previously "cleared" hallway activated by a pepper popper behind the far threat on the left shooting position. Most shooters don't really give a second thought the possibility of more threat targets needing engagement in an area they have already "cleared". Any reload points had to be strategized accordingly depending on if you were shooting an 8+1 or 10+1 division so as to avoid running empty in the middle of the clamshell disappearing targets. I was shooting CDP .45 in this one.

That's a really fun stage. I like that you threw in there options on how to run it.

The only IDPA club I go to any more doesn't have much creativity in stage design and really dumbs things down. They're not alone, there's some uspsa clubs around that do boring stages as well.

 

[308pirate]

Post some videos showing the weird shit you're discussing that are simple to follow.

Oh and here's one of the GOATs of the sport

 

[Maverick3009]

Here's someone shooting a USPSA match with an S&W 500 and a Desert Eagle 50AE. Yes we allow fuckery like that

My wrists hurt after watching that

 

[mkollman74]

I'm not a collector of handguns. I'm a collector of handgun skill.

You all enjoy buying more and more expensive pistols. Or burning more money on gucci shit for the ones you have.

I'll just just keep getting more skilled with the few I have.

Classic false choice. One does not preclude the other...

 

[mkollman74]

Dry fire your presentation until that dot shows up in front of your eyes no matter what.

Cover up the front of the lens to force you to focus on the target.

This is good advice. Shooting red dots has made me shoot quite a bit better with my irons. The red dot makes you "groove" your presentation. In my experience the irons are actually more forgiving here. The red dots require more discipline and that leads to more reliable presentation overall.

 

[308pirate]

Classic false choice. One does not preclude the other...

Collecting shit is a lot easier than being good with it

 

[louu]

Collecting shit is a lot easier than being good with it

 

[gigamortis]

That's a really fun stage. I like that you threw in there options on how to run it.

The only IDPA club I go to any more doesn't have much creativity in stage design and really dumbs things down. They're not alone, there's some uspsa clubs around that do boring stages as well.

A lot of our IDPA stage scenario ideas sprout up from the daily news. I like to throw in the occasional monkey wrench with disappearing targets that might catch a shooter at slide lock after only sending the first of two required rounds.

Stage design for me means its not just a shooting gallery day. I strive to make shooters have to think and shoot at the same time.

Every once and a while I’ll even paint a non-threat’s open hands on the lower half of the cardboard. I usually set these up deeper into the stage at shooting position 3 or 4 around a tight corner so its the first piece of cardboard they get to see after running across the whole bay to get there. Quite a few shooters get suckered in to double tapping the low-hands non-threat as soon as the see a piece of clean cardboard!

Another thinking required stage is where all targets have knives, guns, or non-threat hands painted on them - No bare cardboard targets for the entire stage, so each target requires an identification of threat or non-threat before shooting.

 

[mkollman74]

Collecting shit is a lot easier than being good with it

True enough...

 

[clsx]

I bought an FN 502 to help train red dot fundamentals on the cheap. I'm a mediocre pistol shot, so the only way to go is up! Someone needs to come out with a rapid mag loader though.

 

[Longshot231]

 

[308pirate]

Nope. Sorry. No.

THIS is the best shootout in movie history

 

[Longshot231]

Nope. Sorry. No.

THIS is the best shootout in movie history

That sure beats the gunfight near Fly’s Boarding House!

 

[mark5pt56]

Nope. Sorry. No.

THIS is the best shootout in movie history

Dang, I'm awake now

 

[The38Super]

lifting the inside rear tire (Golf GTi) around corners.....

Is it something about running Solo II in a GTI that makes one naturally progress to USPSA? Mine was always too loaded up with my extra set of tires, jack, and other shit to lift much of anything on the way home. And the pain, if I forgot to reset my shocks back to street settings.

As for USPSA, it sharpens your shooting skills so that in a 'real life' situation, you can dedicate more of your brain to whether to shoot versus how to. Anyone who thinks we hose indiscriminately clearly has zero understanding of the game.

Back to the original topic, I'm planning to add a 1911 Commander this year. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time finding anything that meets my criteria. Non lightweight traditional frame (no bobtail nonsense), mostly outfitted the way I want (so I don't have to wait 2 years for a smith to rebuild it), and a price of entry <$2500. Still debating on whether to go 45 ACP or 9mm / 38 Super. All of my non-competition 1911's are 45, but I like the idea of 9mm to throw a threaded barrel in and have a suppressor host or a different barrel / extractor and have a more potent 38 Super defense gun.

 

[308pirate]

Is it something about running Solo II in a GTI that makes one naturally progress to USPSA?

LOL

Mine was always too loaded up with my extra set of tires, jack, and other shit to lift much of anything on the way home. And the pain, if I forgot to reset my shocks back to street settings.

That was tongue-in-cheek. I also had four R compound tires, jack, jackstands, tools, helmet, cooler, and lawn chair in the back on my way home from the meet.

As for USPSA, it sharpens your shooting skills so that in a 'real life' situation, you can dedicate more of your brain to whether to shoot versus how to. Anyone who thinks we hose indiscriminately clearly has zero understanding of the game.

This last 18 months I've seen more than my share of tactical timmies show up now that word got around that AIWB/flashlight won't put you in open division. Occasionally one of them can shoot, move, and do both at the same time. Most of them run around hosing with their instagram splits which looks cool on video but with shit for points, mikes, and no shoots.

 

[Milf Dots]

I just bought a hk vp9 match 5.5"bl
Four 20 rd. Mags. Optics ready. Not sure what reflex too get.

SWEET H&K for sure- congrats!

For EDC and defense, mount a Trijicon RMR type 2, or an Aimpoint Acro p2. For competition a Trij SRO or Leupold DPP.

Avoid Holosun, they're a fully Chinese company- funded and controlled by the Chinese Communist Party/CCP.

 

[6Shooter]

Best shootout scene is still from Heat.

 

[Milf Dots]

@308pirate points out the best training strategy- tactical training AND USPSA and multi-gun type shooting. It's no secret the top tier tactical world has extolled the virtues of training with the world's top competitive shooters in the action/multi-gun realm. Both Tac and Comp have benefited in that training.

 

[flyfisher117]

I've been eyeballing a CZ Shadow 2...just can't decide if I really want it or if I would be happier with a nice bolt gun...

 

[308pirate]

@308pirate points out the best training strategy- tactical training AND USPSA and multi-gun type shooting. It's no secret the top tier tactical world has extolled the virtues of training with the world's top competitive shooters in the action/multi-gun realm. Both Tac and Comp have benefited in that training.

I took a class with Matt Pranka last spring. It was a LE only class, one of my USPSA buds is a state trooper got me into an unfilled seat.

It was a shooting class, not a tactics class. Pranka's drills were all pretty much out of the practical shooting playbook with some of his twists. His method of pre and post class evaluation and debrief was running a USPSA stage using hit factor scoring. He went out of his way to explain hit factor scoring to the cops (which included SWAT and firearm instructors from local, state, and federal agencies) and how it was much more useful than par times.

Matt is a USPSA Grand Master in Production, and by now probably in Carry Optics as well.

His resume also includes some serious operational experience at the highest levels.

 

[FN15]

I have been looking out double barrel 10mm handguns. Not sure when i will ever need such gun.

 

[houndog]

flyfisher - get the Shadow 2. I own a dozen pistols, from a Sig 226 I have for 25 years to some pretty nice 1911's. For years I've been content to go to the range and just plink/focus on slow fire accuracy. Recently I've been trying to improve my speed and follow up shots. Other than a couple of .22's the Shadow 2 is the lowest recoil/fastest shooting pistol I own. The front sight is super easy to pick up and get on target, the trigger is pretty good and has a fast reset. The weight and the high bore access makes the gun very easy to get back on target. Its got a great mag release button. And it is very accurate. Only criticism I have is that the grip could be a little fatter (I have big hands), but that's an easy fix. Oh and maybe the trigger could be a little better ... but again if your unhappy send it off to Cajun Gunworks and have them work their magic.

 

[Swatman]

I would definitely recommend the Shadow 2. If you want a really special one order a tuned one from Cajun Gun Works.

 

[Gustav7]

I've been eyeballing a CZ Shadow 2...just can't decide if I really want it or if I would be happier with a nice bolt gun...

Like the other two guys just said ... I'd go Shadow 2 if you shoot a lot of pistol. I picked one up a few months back, I got just under 1k through it now. Its a damn smooth gun and just feels perfect in the hand. I highly recommend the LOK Bogie grips as they really turn it into a better feeling gun.

My stock S2's DA pull was ~7.5lbs and the single action is right around 3.5lbs. The caveat to this is theres zero stacking on the DA pull and they're both super smooth. It's a really fun gun to shoot.

And if you want it nicer, then send it to CGW

 

[flyfisher117]

Like the other two guys just said ... I'd go Shadow 2 if you shoot a lot of pistol. I picked one up a few months back, I got just under 1k through it now. Its a damn smooth gun and just feels perfect in the hand. I highly recommend the LOK Bogie grips as they really turn it into a better feeling gun.

My stock S2's DA pull was ~7.5lbs and the single action is right around 3.5lbs. The caveat to this is theres zero stacking on the DA pull and they're both super smooth. It's a really fun gun to shoot.

And if you want it nicer, then send it to CGW

I'd really like to test a shadow before I buy. I have an FN Hi-Power and it's what I have ran when I have tested the water with USPSA. I didn't get the USPSA bug so I wasn't sure what I would do with a shadow other than have a nice range gun.. or the Shadow would make me want to shoot USPSA more??

Love the Hi Power so I often wonder if it's worth sending out for some trigger work.

 

[308pirate]

or the Shadow would make me want to shoot USPSA more??

I doubt it, but I could be wrong.

Then again, when I first tried USPSA in 2014 I was instantly hooked. To this day I compete with cheap guns and they certainly aren't holding me back.

I haven't paid $600 for a handgun yet except for a S&W 627 PC.

 

[Gustav7]

I didn't get the USPSA bug so I wasn't sure what I would do with a shadow other than have a nice range gun.. or the Shadow would make me want to shoot USPSA more??

I doubt it, but I could be wrong.

Then again, when I first tried USPSA in 2014 I was instantly hooked. To this day I compete with cheap guns and they certainly aren't holding me back.

I'm with @308pirate ... if you don't like shooting USPSA, I doubt any one gun is gonna change that. I might challenge you to find a match further away or at a different location if you've only tried a local place. Different match directors can really change the entire experience. If I had stayed with only shooting my local IDPA matches, I'd have the same mindset, but I was introduced to good USPSA matches an hour from my house and its totally different.

I got rid of my Glocks and replaced with CZ, so the Shadow2 was just an impulsive gift to myself, one I do not regret either lol.

That all being said, I get easily beat at matches by guys with $500 guns so take that all with a grain of salt.

 

[flyfisher117]

I'm with @308pirate ... if you don't like shooting USPSA, I doubt any one gun is gonna change that. I might challenge you to find a match further away or at a different location if you've only tried a local place. Different match directors can really change the entire experience. If I had stayed with only shooting my local IDPA matches, I'd have the same mindset, but I was introduced to good USPSA matches an hour from my house and its totally different.

I got rid of my Glocks and replaced with CZ, so the Shadow2 was just an impulsive gift to myself, one I do not regret either lol.

That all being said, I get easily beat at matches by guys with $500 guns so take that all with a grain of salt.

I do believe the club I tried it at was not helping. They were solid guys and helped me out shit loads but just due to their property layout they could only run 2 stages at a time and they were very limited on how much movement they could allow. Their 2 pistol bays were only 15ish yards wide and maybe twice that deep. We spent a lot of time setting up and changing stages. Just turned into a full day.


That paired with my ability, or lack of, to train and practice just made it tough to get into.

I now live near a larger club with cheaper fees and the ability to run 7 stages at once. They do all of the fun pistol and carbine shoots so there's always something happening. I just have to make the effort to go. Been spending more and more time playing NRL22 though

 

[Maverick3009]

Been spending more and more time playing NRL22 though

NRL22 is a ton of fun and the first competitive shooting I got into. The closest range to my house does well enough and is able to set up all 5 stages at the same time. However, kind of like your first USPSA experience, I went to another local range just to get another 22 match in and their club there was relatively new and they were only able to setup 3 stages at a time so they setup the first 3 stages, and then we had to setup the 4th and 5th stages plus a 6th fun stage just for kicks. My normal range usually gets through the entire match plus cleanup in about 2-2.5hrs, this other range I tried was about 6hrs start to finish and I was definitely a lot more exhausted afterward. The range setup/club can easily make or break any competition experience.

 

[Swatman]

I think whatever you do most forms of competition shooting makes most of us better shooters. The match directors really make or break the matches.

 

[308pirate]

I went to another local range just to get another 22 match in and their club there was relatively new and they were only able to setup 3 stages at a time so they setup the first 3 stages, and then we had to setup the 4th and 5th stages plus a 6th fun stage just for kicks. this other range was about 6hrs start to finish

OH HELL NO

I would have been gone by hour 4, match finished or not

 

[308pirate]

I do believe the club I tried it at was not helping. They were solid guys and helped me out shit loads but just due to their property layout they could only run 2 stages at a time and they were very limited on how much movement they could allow. Their 2 pistol bays were only 15ish yards wide and maybe twice that deep. We spent a lot of time setting up and changing stages. Just turned into a full day.

Yeah I can see why you didn't like it. I wouldn't go back either.

That paired with my ability, or lack of, to train and practice just made it tough to get into.

Do you have a finished basement? Do you have a relatively open room (den/family room/etc) somewhere in the house? If so, there is where you do the majority of your practice and training through dry fire. Buy and read this: https://benstoegerproshop.com/dryfi...ol-shooter-paperback-book-and-scaled-targets/

You'll thank me later

I now live near a larger club with cheaper fees and the ability to run 7 stages at once. They do all of the fun pistol and carbine shoots so there's always something happening. I just have to make the effort to go.

You need to go back

 

[Maverick3009]

OH HELL NO

I would have been gone by hour 4, match finished or not

Unfortunately I didn't drive that day

 

[The38Super]

The club you shoot your matches at will definitely impact your enjoyment of the sport. I was lucky enough to begin USPSA at a club with nice facilities and an engaged crew / MD. We put on monthly matches that were of Level II caliber. It made me a much better shooter. You could always tell when Nationals were coming up, because we'd have (more) pro's show up. You'd find yourself on a squad with Travis, Max, Todd Jarrett, and the like. Our little mafia would go shoot other matches and they were 'meh' compared to ours.

The club I shoot at here in Kansas-hell has nice facilities, but has its drawbacks. Instead of the MD choosing the stage designs (from a pool we were constantly feeding), it's up to the monthly volunteers for the stage design. And every damned one tries to create the most mind bending stage with the maximum allowable round count. The first time I showed up, I almost ran out of ammo. So, it's been hard to stay motivated; in fact, I took last year off, because I just didn't feel like the slog.