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Mechanic calls out 'fancy-schmancy' car for hiding a costly secret: 'Not designed for the long haul' ... Bats could hold secret to long life — and other health ...
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Plastic parts on your cars engine? Made to fail as soon as the warranty is up.
- Thread starter Maggot
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FTPPro
http://news.ftppro.com
Mechanic calls out 'fancy-schmancy' car for hiding a costly secret: 'Not designed for the long haul' ... Bats could hold secret to long life — and other health ...
Shitty link, didn't read, but if something is designed to fail as soon as the warranty is up, what happens when you purchase the manufacturer extended coverage? When I took delivery of the USS Cornelius (2023 Yukon XL diesel, company vehicle) we opted for the extended factory warranty for a mere 2500.00. Covers bumper to bumper for 10 yrs./ 120k.
So I guess the question is: which warranty is the failure point?
So I guess the question is: which warranty is the failure point?
Its been referred to as obsolescence, for the last 40 years. However some parts were produced with the intention of failing via other means. ie Nissan had their wires coated knowing the soybean extract used in the process would attract rodents. Once called out directly, they stopped.
The other issue is people using a truck to its full spec instead of a look at me ride.
When still working we had about 80 trucks, split between Ford, Chevy, & Dodge. When we started questioning why we were having so many warranty issues we were told, "its because your using the truck to spec". The Mfg knows the bulk of their trucks never get off road or carry its combined GVW, (if ever) at all. They can take the warranty hit for those that do, as the net they make with xyz spec allows it, vs the small percentage of those sold to that spec, and are used to that spec.
The other issue is people using a truck to its full spec instead of a look at me ride.
When still working we had about 80 trucks, split between Ford, Chevy, & Dodge. When we started questioning why we were having so many warranty issues we were told, "its because your using the truck to spec". The Mfg knows the bulk of their trucks never get off road or carry its combined GVW, (if ever) at all. They can take the warranty hit for those that do, as the net they make with xyz spec allows it, vs the small percentage of those sold to that spec, and are used to that spec.
The use of plastic parts is especially problematic if you ever have to touch any of them in cold conditions. That shit just snaps right off - regardless of warranty!
10 years is good. 120 K not so much. Every vehicle I've had has gone 250K or better for a couple simple reasons. I use Amsoil and change it regularly and do the other maintenance as required.
Just like the appliance industry of today. They can't make a profit if the product works forever. I got a 1970s garage fridge that's outlasted two new fridges.
This concern does have merit but is a bit overblown. I’m sure there have been plastic parts that break right after the warranty expires but most plastic parts make it many years/miles after any warranty is over.
more direct link
news.yahoo.com
I don't think Rastaman is speaking literally with the warranty statement. Its a general comment people have made for decades about poorly engineered items or items with design flaws.
Mechanic calls out ‘fancy-schmancy’ car for hiding a costly secret: ‘Not designed for the long haul’
"It's for weight reduction to make it faster while it’s on its way to the junkyard."
I don't think Rastaman is speaking literally with the warranty statement. Its a general comment people have made for decades about poorly engineered items or items with design flaws.
Only certain plastics in certain applications cause problems. Take BMW and their rigid reinforced plastic they use on their cooling systems, after a few hundred heat cycles you can't change a radiator without replacing the hoses and fittings. You also see a lot of plastic manifolds on turbocharged vehicles, that's begging for a boost leak at some point
When I bought my 2018 Silverado the "rip off add ons-warranty guy" wouldn't let me think over the options on the paper he handed me for extended warranty plans. He was deliberately fucking with my concentration. I even told him I need a second, then he started talking about some other shit, so I tossed the paper on his desk and said, "If I can't look these over and make a decision, I don't want any of them." I've been told by dealership mechanics that the 2018 was the good model, 2019-2021 plagued by COVID shit.
Except when you go to try and use it, you find out hard and fast that it’s vaporware and doesn’t actually cover anything.
Depends on the fluid type/quality that Toyota recommends. It also depends on some real-world info that dealerships are gathering. Toyota may say the transmission fluid doesn’t need to be serviced(which will be in the owner’s manual) so the dealership has come up with their own schedule
Case-in-point: The 5 speed auto that Mercedes introduced in the late 90’s was supposedly a lifetime fill. After some premature failures dealerships started recommending trans services at 60k and it’s been ok since then
I think plastic upper manifolds have more than proved their worth at this point.
Selling cars doesn't pay the guys in the service department, but having a good service department sells cars. Yes, scheduled maintenance and warranty repairs keep the service department guys making money. If a tech is not working on something, he isn't flagging any hours, then he isn't making any money. Its kind of an interesting dynamic to look at car dealerships over time and how they have had to adapt as maintenance intervals have increased and cars have become so much more reliable.
AMSoil says you should change your ATF every 30k.
Short of drilling a hole in the torque converter, or pulling the transmission, draining and refilling it yourself is going to replace Less than half the oil in the transmission.
Friend had a Ford ranger, local Ford place wanted $99.99 just to R&R the fuel filter. Had him buy one local ($19.96 + tax) & I installed it in less than 30 minutes which included coffee, talking about shooting & pussy as well. Its all about trying to force the euro ride style here.
Not true. Ive used an extended warranty twice. Those two times have paid for almost every extended warranty Ive ever purchased.
You’re extremely lucky. Like, winning the lottery twice, lucky.
100 bucks is about 30 minutes worth of labor at a lot of dealerships.
Let's not forget the .gov role in this. The Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards have been making vehicles lighter and less safe for years. All to satisfy unelected bureaucrats who probably take the train to work. Plastic parts make sense in some applications (think timing chain guides) but the plastic composition is hit or miss, depending on whether the engineer was a DEI hire or not.
Correct. Lots of plastic parts last damn forever if properly designed. When was the last time an LS intake manifold failed in use?
There have been some pretty bad plastic engine parts, particularly in cooling systems.
Yep and as long as people keep throwing money at simple issues it will keep going up.
Probably better do that one( fluid change on trans at 30k). If it has the CVT, fluid changes are the only way to get any miles out of them. No manufacturer has been able to get them to work much past warranty, but they improve the fuel mileage, so Biden is happy with that.
If they have less work they have to raise their prices also. Money keeps the doors open. Its not like everyone at the shop is getting rich.
Had a 92 Chevy s10 blazer. Fuel injector housing was made of plastic and it was a $700 fix. Warranty covered it the first time and Chevy strung me along until the warranty ran out the second time. Had me sign an NDA in order to get that paid. Fuck Chevy and all GM products! Have owned 2 trouble free Hondas and currently own a trouble free Mazda since. Since I drive approx 40k a year for work, I need super reliable transportation.
Its a pain in the ass but you can replace most all the fluid in the trans, you remove the pan drain the fluid then refill the
pan. Disconnect the cooler line and run the engine to pump out like 2 quarts of fluid and stop and refill the pan.
You do this multiple times until you have drained out all the old fluid.
When I first started turning wrenches you got 50% of the labor & 10% of the parts. Then came the days of "those dumn ass guys" will work for less & still buy all their own tooling. Switched to EPG work, never looked back while banking much more. Today's dealerships only thrive because the general public just throws money at all issues.
I never have changed the trans fluid in any of my cars over the years. I never thought it necessary. I figured it's just oil lubricating a gearbox. All cars/trucks were Toyota and Honda. Never had an issue with the transmission. Used most of them for committing to work. 25k miles a year. All those vehicles had between 150,000 and 200,000 before I sold them. Sold one to a friend of mine, a 98 Corolla. He just got rid of it last year, 200k + miles, paint was faded, looked like shit but still ran like a top. He just purchased a new Tacoma for a retirement gift to himself. It will probably out live him.
Yeah, I took all that plastic shit out of my Jeep and installed a supercharger. Well worth the cost and effort.
Well, I drive 9 miles a day, round trip to work, and it's 14 miles roundtrip to the range, so, I should be OK. When I traded the '13 2500 Sierra in on the new one, it had 127K on it.
It's a company vehicle, so:
1- If they don't honor what's in the written agreement, it gets kicked to the company atty. to handle.
2- It's a company vehicle, I'm not paying for maintenance.
3- It's the same coverage we've had on all the other vehicles and haven't had any issues. Maybe the dealer we use just takes good care of us.
Replacing plastic radiator.... "Find them and beat them!"
While changing the plastic intake manifold on the same engine a second time... "Take them out and shoot them!"
The "spider"? The multi port jobber were the lines rubbed against each other and wore holes in themselves?
While changing the plastic intake manifold on the same engine a second time... "Take them out and shoot them!"
The "spider"? The multi port jobber were the lines rubbed against each other and wore holes in themselves?
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That's not at all what the inside of an automatic transmission is. Some it's critical to change and some it's not. A CVT transmission is critical to change fluid in. Most other transmisions not so much unless underhard use and towing. Heat breaks it down. Heat ruins trnasmissions.
Yup, cars don't last as long as they used to.
Oh wait. They last twice as long as they did in the 70s....
Oh, and we're driving further
Anyone who thinks cars are getting less reliable and durable are living a lie. The old cars that are still around, are few and far between. They're not built to last, people fix them because they love them, not through design or construction.
Oh wait. They last twice as long as they did in the 70s....
Oh, and we're driving further
Anyone who thinks cars are getting less reliable and durable are living a lie. The old cars that are still around, are few and far between. They're not built to last, people fix them because they love them, not through design or construction.
Whatever you do, do not buy a 22, 23, or 24 Toyota Tundra! Complete pieces of shit. I'm service advisor for Toyota and they are having all kinds of engine problems. spraying fuel lines and other problems. Stay away! The whole cab needs to come off the truck in order to put another engine in and even if covered by warranty you'll be without your truck for awhile and they are just gonna put another shitty engine in it. Rinse and repeat!
Of course some of that has to be that people have to drive them that long - because they are financed for that long.
Much of that is do to way better roads, plus much, much better machining and more material choices . The designs of old, machined on present day gear using present day material trumps anything built presently. True numbers come from the industrial side.
So, new cars are better, but if we remade old cars now, they'd be better for sure? Interesting idea.
Loans might be part of it.
But banks aren't dumb either, they're not going to finance a car that is garbage part way through the term.
Old cars needed a lot more up keep. More parts failed, they were not better.
How about valve covers lol. Biggest problem with the manifolds is they tend to break in minor accidents, which isn't a huge deal but adds significantly to repair cost.
lol, any accident that reaches the intake manifold is not minor
You think oil never gets contaminated, breaks down, or wears out?
That's like saying you haven't ever cleaned or lubed your gun because you did it once.
Turns out the lifetime fill is the lifetime of the manufacturers warranty. If you want it to last longer, you should probably change the oil.
My truck had a 60k warranty. Changing the oils in the differentials, transfer case, transmission, and engine has made it to 315k with no major work needed.
The best part is I have 4 Chevy's with over 250k miles, and everyone wants to tell me how unreliable they are because they aren't a Toyota. Turns out it's easy to make things last, you just have to understand maintenance and never see a dealership.
Funny, I had no such class in my undergrad engineering studies.
Go far enough down the reliably rabbit hole (to the point where we start talking about confidence levels and Weibull form factors), and yes, we eventually do determine target lifespans for most consumer goods. This is done because consumers do not have bottomless pockets and so there has to be a line where we say "good enough".
Virtually every reliability problem that I've had to address in my career comes down not to some sort of evil "planned obsolescence" but rather a poor up-front assumption on the operating conditions that the part will experience.
Put another way - if the auto industry is trying to engineer cars with finite lifespans, we're doing a really shitty job:
Paying x years for any ride is beyond stupid for all concerned except of course, the F&I guy, banker, Ins company ect. Pay cash for the POS & be done with it.
Thought someone might show up to back me up.
I guess 30 is too young to start romanticizing the past?
Most "lifetime fill" fluids assume that the customer is not subject to the "severe use" classification. That is generally not a great assumption for broad swaths of the US population. Following the "severe use" schedule is the best plan - heat/cold/humidity/dirt are killers.
And today's are far safer than yesterdays. People bitch about seatbelt laws but with those, air bags, and safer front ends that don't crush you I'll put up with them. Check this.
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