Please Assist with a Build.

[f1oored]

I'm putting together a rifle and would like it if some more knowledgable people looked it over and made some suggestions.

Starting with a Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD in .308
Bell and Carlson Tactical Medalist fully adjustable stock
M4 Flush mount detachable Mag assembly with 2x 10 round mags (stockysstocks)
Seekins 20MOA base for Rem 700 SA (not sure if I need #6 or #8 screws)
Seekins 30mm High 6/4 Rings
Falcon Menace 5.5x25x56 Tactical 30mm Scope
SJC Titan Compensator

I am hoping to spend less that $2500 on the entire rifle and scope. I am very open to comments and suggestions as I am new to this. Please let me know if any of this isn't going to go together as I might think it will. I am open to suggestions but would like to keep it in budget, please don't suggest I get a $3K scope or something like that. I will probably get a new trigger at some point down the line. Also I'm not willing to change the caliber.

Thanks in advance for your time.

 

[JonnyIndy]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

What is the intended use for this one?

 

[f1oored]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JonnyIndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the intended use for this one? </div></div>

Mostly paper punching from from 100-500 yards. I would like to be able to shoot at 1000 yards but likely won't shoot that range very often.

 

[JB02]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Although I don't have any experience with Falcon Menace, I'm a little skeptical of its quality. You should dig into this more. Most of the features contained in such a scope are not available on better known brands until you start spending ~ $1,000. I would ask a separate question in the optics forum for someone to give you some advice there, if I was you. My suspicion is that Falcon cuts corners on glass quality to pump a scope with so many features for just $450. If you aren't willing to spend $1000+ on optics, I would recommend a 4-16X42SF Nikon Monarch with the Mid-dot reticle. This scope is well known for having very high quality glass, and I believe they are an excellent value.

If you go to the Seekins website and enter the parameters of your intended scope, it says to go with medium high vs high rings. If you get a Nikon Monarch scope, it will have a 1" tube. You could get medium Burris Signature Zee rings (with the nylon insert) for only ~ $50. They will fit very nice onto your scope and leave no markings. The 30mm variants are nearly impossible to obtain because they are so popular.

I cannot tell the difference between a NF, a Seekins or an EGW when it comes to the base. If you're looking to shave a few dollars somewhere, this is where I would do it. An EGW 20 MOA base is only ~$40 on opticsplanet. Get a 20 MOA base so you could eventually reach out to 1000 yds. Unless you plan to take your rifle to a gunsmith to have him open up the scope mount screws in your receiver, 6 is the proper size (make sure you get a short action).

I'm not sure I would swap out the remington stock that comes with the rifle. It looked to me that the M4 system would drop into the rifle. If you get yourself a triad tactical stock pack, you'll give yourself the line of sight for your scope and a good cheek weld on the factory stock. If you forgo the B&C, you'll save quite a bit of money that you could use for other things.

Instead, I would put my money in an aftermarket trigger. Dollar for dollar, that is probably the best investment you can make to your rifle. Check to see if there are any known issues with fitting a Timney 510 in an M4 system; if not, that is the route I would go. Otherwise, look for an older style R700 trigger or something else that you think will work.

In the end, it's your money, so get what brings you piece of mind. This is your build, not mine.

 

[f1oored]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Thanks for the advice. I will look a little closer at the Falcon scope and look at some reviews before I purchase.

I will definitely take a look at the EGW base and the Timney Trigger.

Thanks for the answer on the screw question and thanks for taking the time to look over my project. I really appreciate it.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

It sounds like a pretty well thought out package.

I have a Falcon Menace 4-14, the glass is quite good. You will find the "clicks" a bit mushy. Not to worry, take the turret caps off and spray with silicone lube. works like a champ. As far as the 5.5-25, not too sure.
Falcon does offer a new, limited lifetime warranty.
I am a big proponent of FFP scopes, but for paper punching on a known distance range, SFP is absolutely fine. Consider the Midway exclusive Vortex 5-15x. A very dandy scope with great features.

Also check out the weaver extended multi-slot 20MOA rail. It is a mouthful, but it is an American made, aluminum pic rail for about 40 bucks. Look up lonewolfs tutorial on bedding a base. Just about every 700 need the base bedded.

 

[jd138]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Not to pile on regarding the Falcon, but I had one of their SFP's and the eyebox was incredibly sensitive. If my head was not exactly in the right spot, all I saw was black. I know you have a budget, but give the Vortex's a look.

Additionally, I used a B&C adjustable Medalist for a bit. I could never get comfortable with that stock and it is quite heavy. Unless you have a need for the adjustable butt (mammoth length of pull) go with a less expensive model (if you are set on B&C) and get a cheek pad - that should shave a of couple of bucks and you will probably be in a better position.

I would also skip the compensator for now.

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Get a Super Sniper scope over the Falcon. I've owned both & I've also witnessed issues with other's Falcon scopes. The Super Sniper scopes seem to always hold zero, track well and repeat. Good optic for the $$. Good luck with your build.

 

[Maelstrom]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Forgive me if I am assuming the wrong thing here but you say you want an M4 detachable box magazine. I am assuming Badge M4 and if so I thiught the M4 was not a detachable mag. I thought the M4 was the floorplate version and the M5 was the dbm version. I could be completely wrong though.

 

[cobaltbomb]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

ditch the bell and carlson and the falcon
get a leupold or nightforce and a manners or mcmillan instead

 

[BLDTYLRY]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobaltbomb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ditch the bell and carlson and the falcon
get a leupold or nightforce and a manners or mcmillan instead </div></div>

OP has a budget

 

[JB02]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maelstrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgive me if I am assuming the wrong thing here but you say you want an M4 detachable box magazine. I am assuming Badge M4 and if so I thiught the M4 was not a detachable mag. I thought the M4 was the floorplate version and the M5 was the dbm version. I could be completely wrong though. </div></div>

If you go to Badger's site and read the M4, I see exactly what you are saying:
http://badgerordnance.com/triggerguards/

But, if you go to stockystocks.com, you read this:
http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-473/Wyatt's-Outdoor-Detachable-Magazine/Detail

I believe this is Wyatt's DBM, and I have heard that this bottom metal does not accept AI mags. I have only used Surgeon, CDI and Badger bottom metal (not Wyatt's). These take AI mags, but will not drop into a Rem700 BDL footprint, so I doubt that these Wyatt's mags would accept AI mags.

OP, instead of the B&C, perhaps you should consider getting a surgeon bottom metal with an AI mag installed in the HS Precision stock that comes with your rifle. This is great bottom metal that you won't regret and the system is cheaper than getting a chassis. Surgeon DBM comes with a mag, but you could save ~ $50 by going with a CDI system from Jeff Allen.

 

[f1oored]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. You guys have given me some great information. I feel like there is a lot more research that needs to be done before I purchase. I thought I had the stock figured out but now I might need to rethink that.

I did look at the vortex vipers and the super sniper scopes, the falcon did have a few more features but I will look into the scopes again.

It's very nice to read "I've tried these both and think you should consider this". You guys are a wealth of information. Thanks again and any other suggestions are welcome.

 

[HOGTOOTH5R]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

I've went from Millet to Super Sniper to Falcon then finally to Vortex Viper PST FFP. So I say this with some what expierence that Vortex Viper PST is probably one of the best value Price/features scopes in the lower scope class range. Super Sniper would be the next due to lack of some features and being MOA instead MRAD adjustments but does have superb quality glass for the money.

I do have a B&C Medalist A5 Tactical Stock Fully Adustable on my rifle currently however it now has a Crack on the side due to rilfe falling over and hit the bench. Not a very harsh fall either. I've yet deal with their warranty department so this part will have to be updated later. However for fairness sake I have 2 other B&C Stocks one M40 the other A3 "Hook" and Loves them Both! I almost think the A5 is a bit on the Heavy Side, the AAC-SD being a 20" inch barrel might be more handy with a lighter stock. I'd highly recomend the M40 or the A3 Hook with a Krestine Cheek Piece.

The Stock Remmy Trigger do suck at Factory Setting but it can be easily adjusted to acceptable trigger pull weight for general range and some what tactical applications. All in all I believe your setup seems to be a very decent starting point for a capable entry level precision rifle. Good Luck!

 

[XxMerlinxX]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

^ I think he meant Karston cheek piece. I second that thought, I have one on my .22 trainer and it's easy to install, use, and adjust. For about $275 you'd have a pretty good adjustable tactical stock. I wouldn't worry about a DBM until you started shooting matches.

Now take that extra $200 you were going to spend on the stock, and the $280 you were going to spend on the DBM, and the $40 from switching to a cheaper base, and put it all towards some better glass. If you were going to spend $450 on the Falcon, and you add that $520 you just saved, that puts you at $970 which is more than enough for a Vortex Viper PST FFP. Go talk to Alex over at EuroOptic.com about it, he may even cut you a deal.

As for the trigger, I again second the Timney 510, it's a really great trigger. If you want to monkey with the stock trigger, you can do that too, though the trigger pull weight probably won't stay consistent once you adjust it down to around 3.5#.

 

[TRAAV]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

I would consider PTG bottom metal and use AI mags over the Wyatts.

I personally like the B&C A5 stocks alot. when you figure in th esaving over some of the others mentioned I like them alot.

I have used Falcon in the past and never had any problem with them but there reticle is fat. It does what its supposed to and cost half the price of the next in line FFP's

 

[JB02]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

OP, another option for a quick and easy DBM system for your rifle, this would work:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3403336&gonew=1#UNREAD

This would drop right into your HS Precision stock. Like Wyatt's, HS Precision does not accept AI style mags.

 

[f1oored]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Asking you guys for help was such a bad idea. Three days ago I knew what I wanted and now I know nothing! I actually new nothing a few day ago too but didn't know it until I talked to you guys. I've decided to drop the B&C stock for a lighter Manners stock that is already milled to fit a Badger bottom metal which will take the AI mags. I'm going with the EGW base and a Timney trigger.

So just as an update, here is what I think, maybe, I might order... maybe.

Rem 700 SPS Tact AAC-SD
Manners MCS T4 Stock
Badger M5 DBM
EGW 20 MOA Base
Seekins Rings
SJC Titan Muzzle Brake
Timney Trigger #510

I'm also considering the Karston cheek piece after the thought of drilling holes into my $564 stock stops giving me nightmares.

As far as the scope goes, I have no idea. I'm starting to shy away from the Falcon towards the Vortex, but I'm really not sure anymore. There is a lot of information on the net about optics so I'm sure I'll be able to figure something out. Part of me just wants to fork out the extra money and get the VV PST FFP.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to offer suggestions and help me out. Once I have this rifle finished I will revive this dead thread and show some pictures. Thanks again!

 

[Cacciatore]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Instead of the Karsten you might want to look up Stock Doc here on the hide. He does great work of installing the KMW loggerhead hardware into aftermarket stocks.

 

[uncledog57]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Sounds like a really nice build to me? It will come out great! As far as glass goes? There are better scopes then the PST, but you have to spend a lot more money. When you consider the features against cost, plus the best warranty in the industry! You will be one happy camper!
Make sure you post some gun porn when your done!!

 

[JB02]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f1oored</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Rem 700 SPS Tact AAC-SD
Manners MCS T4 Stock
Badger M5 DBM
EGW 20 MOA Base
Seekins Rings
SJC Titan Muzzle Brake
Timney Trigger #510
</div></div>

Don't bother buying the bottom metal and the stock separately. Just get the mini-chassis from them; it's actually a better and more cost effective option. It comes with a mag and action screws and is essentially a drop in and go system. No bedding necessary.

Seekins rings are nice, but there are other rings such as Burris Signature Zee or XTRs that will do the job nicely for less money.

If you get the manners mini chassis with your Timney, make sure you have them relieve the trigger area before they send it to you.

I'm not familiar with this muzzle brake. Can anyone else talk about it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f1oored</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm also considering the Karston cheek piece after the thought of drilling holes into my $564 stock stops giving me nightmares.</div></div>

Then don't do that. Just get a large Triad Tactical stock pack. It has velcro shims to adjust the comb height as necessary to ensure your eyeball is nice and level with the scope. You'll have a nice, comfortable cheek weld too and it will cost ~ $40.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f1oored</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as the scope goes, I have no idea. I'm starting to shy away from the Falcon towards the Vortex, but I'm really not sure anymore. There is a lot of information on the net about optics so I'm sure I'll be able to figure something out. Part of me just wants to fork out the extra money and get the VV PST FFP.</div></div>

FFP is nice, but a luxury vice a necessity. What are necessary are clarity and reliability. IMO, you get the best value on this with a Nikon Monarch 4-16X42 SF Mildot. These are great scopes, which you can get for between $360-$400 if you do a good search online. I own two of them (BTW, I also own a PST and a Razor).

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

I'm starting to feel like a parrot. Lots of guys have the same questions.

First, a bunch of guys complain about the stock on the SPS Tactical, claiming that the stock touches the barrel when shooting off of a rest or bipod. It does, but that isn't the same as having a stock that is placing rigid pressure on the stock all of the time. The contact from that cheapie Hogue stock is minimal and from what I've seen, has no effect on accuracy. From what I've seen, the SPS models are good shooters.

My feelings on this build are that you should re-assess your priorities. First, the rifle is probably fine the way it is. The B&C stock, detachable magazine and compensator are going to do nothing to aid you in hitting your target.

I know that adding those things promote pride of ownership and make the rifle look good, but I think that the money can be spent more wisely, if hitting your target is what is important to you.

I would leave the rifle alone, except for maybe adding either a Timney or Shilen trigger. Either can be had for around $125.

I would concentrate on the scope and mount. What you are looking for is good glass and good internals, neither of which the Falcon has. I know that it has a lot of bells and whistles, but for that low a price, they had to cut corners.

If you have $2500 in hand to spend on a rig, you can very likely get yourself into an SPS with a Nightforce on top of it, if you shop and spend wisely.

My current target .308 consists of a Remington 700 action, Holland bolt handle, Jewel trigger, HSP stock, AICS compatible mag system, Krieger 1:10 heavy varmint barrel, Nightforce 20 MOA rail and Nightforce 5.5-22X50 scope. I have under $3K in this rig. My point is that shopping around can take you a long way.

I did, at one time, have an SPS Tactical. What I did was start off with a scope, which was another 5.5-22X50 Nightforce. I found an older new one with zero stops, but no hi speed turrets. I got it new for $1500. I picked up the SPS Tactical for $600. I spent a few hundred on incidentals, like the rail, rings and a Timney. It was a very nice rig. Everything was purchased new (before I knew better) and it came in right at $2500.

 

[f1oored]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

As promised, here are a few pictures of the finished rifle.

Rem 700 SPS Tact AAC-SD
Manners MCS T4 Stock
Badger M5 DBM
EGW 20 MOA Base
Seekins Rings
SJC Titan Muzzle Brake
Timney Trigger #510
Vortex Viper PST 6x24

Thanks again to everyone who helped me out on this build. Hopefully it shoots as good as it looks. I should be able to get it out to the range next week sometime.

 

[30ought6]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Nice job! Let us know it shoots

 

[stalski]

Re: Please Assist with a Build.

Looks good... It should outshoot you for a long while.