Please help me choose...

[Missimer]

Please help me choose by offering opinions…

Short version – New to Bolt action and precision shooting. I am stuck deciding between a Ruger Precision Rifle or the APO Snipers Hide Special Edition 6.5 Creedmoor. Budget all in for now would be 3k (including bipod and optic).

Long Version - At some point I am sure you were right where I am, attempting to expand my shooting into something new. I assume choosing the right gun will be like my foray into photography. I chose a decent though not top of the line camera. When I wanted to do more than the camera could I upgraded. I am looking for that better than beginner rifle, but my skills do not require anything more. I do not have any friends that precision shoot, though I have those that hunt. I don’t hunt but I might someday. I guess I am looking for a long range SHTF Target hunting if I had to rifle? I was originally looking at .308. I don’t have anything .308 now and the world seems to be shouting 6.5 Creedmoor. Caliber choice made – now for a rifle. Recently I picked up a Ruger Precision Rimfire and its been a lot of fun. Time for a big brother? I have never really been a precision or long-range shooter. My first bolt action was the RPRR. I plan on shooting at the local indoor/outdoor 100-yard range and my friends farm where I should be able to go up to 1000 yards when/if my skills allow me to. I will shoot suppressed. I will eventually take some formal instruction.

I think I have it narrowed down to one of these 2 rifles. Over the last few months, I have been “certain” about which one I would choose.

Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. I like Ruger. Mostly because their stuff is decent, and their customer service is the best I have experienced anywhere. I had a poor shooting 10/22 that they immediately took back, fixed and now it is amazing. I understand they should have built the gun correctly from the beginning, but they were easy to contact and they stand by their product for ever and that means something to me (for similar circumstances Sig is now dead to me). Since that experience I look at Ruger first to see if they have something that fits what I am looking for. There is a lot of aftermarket options for this rifle. I am shooting the RPRR suppressed now and having the big brother is appealing. I can shoot the .22 at my home so having a similar gun should help me be a better shooter?

APO Snipers Hide Special Edition 6.5 Creedmoor. I found this because of all my internet educating I was completing. The forum at Snipers Hide is amazing. In the remainder of my shooting hobby I have a nice variety of guns. This looks like it fits the bill for me. Better than basic, expandable. APO seems to have good support for their product. Maybe not the staying power of Ruger? Looks to be very expandable to fit me as I grow. I have the RPRR maybe I should try something different? I live in SW Virginia and knowing it is built a couple hours drive from me is also appealing. I like supporting local guys. This gun is what is giving me pause in buying the Ruger.

Then I have stupid “questions” in my head. Will a better fit and finish rifle ruin me for other guns? I didn’t care about HDTV until I had one – now its hard to go back. Stupid right? Will having similar triggers in both guns make a difference? How important is the APO chassis vs the Ruger platform for long term performance? I can see this new foray costing me thousands on thousands of dollars. (I originally thought it would SAVE me money as I would be shooting slower and save in ammo costs LOL).

My rambling has ended. All opinions and advice welcome. I have read tons of threads on this and I am still stuck. Maybe that means I have not found the right fit. Thanks for your help in advance.

 

[Toney198]

Off the shelf gun, I would put the Tikka Tac A1 over them. That will leave around 1300 for a scope and a LOT of room to grow before needing to upgrade. Run the bolt on the three and see what you think. One is sandpaper, one is ok, one is butter.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I'll second a Tikka. Even if it's a CTR you have $2k to spend on glass

 

[longshot2000]

Tikka is a good choice. I would also encourage you to look at the Cadex R7 SHP. link here.

 

[Toney198]

I have switched to All CTR (except my first) because who knows what is next for me, so I agree with Minnesota if you want to grow with the rifle.

 

[W54/XM-388]

My suggestion is that while the RPR represents a very good value for the money, there is a good chance you'll want upgrade ergonomics and such pretty quickly and as such you might as well start out with a Tikka or the APO rifle since you have a $3k budget.

The RPR would be an excellent choice if you were stuck around the $2k total mark.

 

[Gatorshark]

Tikka CTR up vote.

 

[Long Range 338]

So right out of the gate: There is no wrong answer. All 3 rifles will get the job done and all 3 can be upgraded as you grow. The Tikka probably has less options but may need less as well. The Ruger is great and there are a lot of options and you can personalize to your taste. The APO should require the least amount of upgrades but costs more out of the box.... The APO is great but if I was counting my pennies I would go with the Ruger.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Another vote for the Tikka T3X TAC A1. The RPR is a good value for the money but its resale won't be great. Conversely, when I put my TAC A1 up for sale, it sold the same day for a very good percentage of what I paid for it new. Tikka actions are about as slick&smooth as a factory action can be; Ruger... works. Like the difference between 4-cylinder engines from BMW compared to Chevrolet.

Harris HBRMS bipod with a Pod-Lok upgrade for $125-150. Later, you can upgrade it with an RRS ARCA/pic rail adapter for another $90 and have a bipod very nearly as solid as an Atlas BT65-NC CAL with the same adapter for $100 less in total price. Some people here might scream heresy at that statement but I have both so I speak from experience.

That leaves $1000 or so for an optic, and there are a number of good options. I've personally been behind the Athlon Midas TAC and thought highly of it; it's generally acknowledged to outperform its price point. You really should call (on the phone) Doug at CameralandNY or Scott at Liberty Optics to discuss options before making a purchase. Both are solid SH supporters and look after us.

I have no knowledge of the APO rifle.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Harris HBRMS bipod with a Pod-Lok upgrade for $125-150. Later, you can upgrade it with an RRS ARCA/pic rail adapter for another $90 and have a bipod very nearly as solid as an Atlas BT65-NC CAL with the same adapter for $100 less in total price. Some people here might scream heresy at that statement but I have both so I speak from experience.

I would suggest that they would be better served to look for a good deal on an Atlas or similar first rather than wasting the money on getting a harris that they will soon need to upgrade from @lowlight had a recent thread chain posting about the merits on skipping the harris stepping stone and going straight for something a lot more solid that will enable you to have a much more solid shooting platform and less frustration.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I would suggest that they would be better served to look for a good deal on an Atlas or similar first rather than wasting the money on getting a harris that they will soon need to upgrade from @lowlight had a recent thread chain posting about the merits on skipping the harris stepping stone and going straight for something a lot more solid that will enable you to have a much more solid shooting platform and less frustration.

Do you have experience with the Harris upgraded as I described? If not, you're parroting what someone else said. I'm speaking from experience owning and using them both.

I'm familiar with Frank's post. I agree that a stock Harris is not comparable to an Atlas. But I stand by what I said - upgrade the Harris with a Pod-Lok and RRS ARCA/pic adapter and it becomes much more comparable to the Atlas, albeit taller with a narrower footprint. I have them both. I use them both in competition; each has its use cases. While I respect Frank's advice, maybe he should try the upgrades and report his findings.

EDIT: If price is no object, I'd go with Atlas. The OP specified a budget. A Harris with a Pod-Lok is less than half the price of a comparably-configured Atlas. Equipped identically, the Harris is still $100 cheaper. I actually like having both. The are some stages where the Harris flip-up/down legs or narrower footprint come in quite handy.

 

[Austinjunks]

Man, I would shop used rifles in the PX. If it had to be 2 from OP, the APO would be my call. Tikka is also a very solid option.

Back to my original point, you could probably find a close to complete, if not full, setup in the PX.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Do you have experience with the Harris upgraded as I described? If not, you're parroting what someone else said. I'm speaking from experience owning and using them both.

I had that Harris BRM-S and Pod-Lok combination on my AW long before atlas became widely known. (Because the original english AI parker-hale bipod was pretty much unusable for any kind of target shooting at all)

Actually I still have it on my AW for speed of deployment reasons, however for any target group shooting, I'll use a bag instead.
I don't do the gaming stuff, but I have heard from those that do and in some cases they prefer the BRM-S and pod-Loc for speed of deployment reasons, but pretty much only that.

I have the Atlas bipod on an AWSM and an Elite Iron bipod on an AXMC

In my opinion the only real benefit from the Harris is the speed at which you can deploy it if time is critical, and the pod-loc or similar device is pretty much required to make it not a sloppy mess when shooting.

I'm not saying you can't use a BRM-S and Pod-Loc successfully, BUT I am saying that if someone is getting into new shooting, which usually entails a whole lot of target practice before you start getting into the games, going with a better bipod such as the Atlas is probably going to be a better option for them as it will be easier to shoot targets with. The fixed height of the BRM-S is often something that's a bit of a pain to work around at close ranges.

For the extra $100, I'd say get the Atlas or similar then if you need the BRM-S and pod-loc, you'll be able to sell the atlas for most of what you have into it, whereas the resale value of the Harris is pretty much why bother.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

@W54/XM-388 , I think we're in "violent agreement." Stay healthy. Sheesh, I'm ready to do matches again.

 

[acudaowner]

I would still go ruger precision rifle in 6.5 get a bipod bag and scope and be well under 2.5k leaving room for more ammo the bergara rifles and the tika"s would be another good choices I am a little learie on the finding ammo but in time it should be easier after this corona virus shut down is lifted even in 308 all three would be another nice option to start . which ever or what ever you get I hope you get to enjoy it .all our ranges are still shut down its just so dam sad lol .but that could allow you more time to really define what you want and what you want to do with it .

 

[Missimer]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses. Now I have a 3rd contender. The CTR in a chassis is intriguing.
I am not as familiar with Tikka as many here are.
How well does the Tikka shoot suppressed? I have a sig 762 and suppressor for the rifle.
I am seeing a lot of 20” barrels in 6.5 creedmore. Is that enough barrel length or still look for 24”?
How is their customer support? Ruger has been fantastic so I grade them on a curve.
Thanks again!

 

[b6graham]

Tikka CTR 24" 6.5CM and chassis of choice
Strike Eagle with vortex rings

Or

Origin
Keystone prefit any cartridge
Chassis of choice
TT special
Strike Eagle Vortex rings

Similar budgets. Origin will last forever and has more options nut the CTR is a very solid start. Upgrade scope down the road. Throw the strike Eagle on the RPRR

Oh yeah. Do yourself a favor and get a Atlas CAL from the start. Skip the harris upgrade shit. End of the day it's still a harris

 

[littlepod]

It really ends up being what you decide you want to do... I bought a Tikka CTR as my very first rifle thinking I would go hunting with it. First day I took it to the range to shoot I met someone that introduced me to NRL22.

I bought a Tikka T1X, and then spent 9 months shooting NRL22 and my Tikka CTR sat in the safe. And with competition comes an entirely different world that let to me trying out multiple chassis and a lot of shooting. Eventually that led to a Vudoo, and then when I decided to get into PRS I wanted a R700 matching set of equipment, so sold off all the Tikka stuff and went R700.

To answer your specific questions -

Tikka services through Beretta. I've called them up and they've been great. I had a trigger that wouldn't adjust to their exact published weight (2lbs) and they sent me a return label to take a look at it. Ruger though from my experience does have nicer customer service, but once you go Ruger, you're basically stuck Ruger. Resale is so-so, aftermarket parts are $. And the RPRR and RPR don't share anything.

The other thing I learned is buy used. There's really no advantage to buying new, except I guess barrel life. Buy your chassis used, buy your scope used. Scopes have such a warranty these days that it doesn't make sense to buy it new.

 

[308pirate]

Another option that seems to get some strong reviews on accuracy on here

Ruger® Hawkeye® Long-Range Target Bolt-Action Rifle Model 47184

ruger.com

 

[Average guy]

Ruger is tough to beat. I wouldn’t hesitate to go that route. Plenty of aftermarket and the rifle isn’t going to hold you back. I don’t worry about resale as I usually don’t sell once I get a few thousand rounds through it

 

[Missimer]

how would something like buying the Howa 1500 barreled action and putting it in a MDT chassis compare? I am not familiar with Howa and their accuracy / quality. Their customer service seems to be good.

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

I have a Howa in a KRG Bravo as well as a Tikka CTR in a Manners T4a. Both are great rifles and very accurate and reliable. I bought the Howa after shooting one and was enticed by the low price for a barreled action from brownells. Once it was all said and done, I spent more on the Howa than the stock Tikka (not including the Manners stock). Comparing the two:
HOWA 1500

The howa is very robust and solid in construction and feels like a great value in terms of quality/price.

I like the heavier barrel contour over the CTR.

Accuracy is very good.

Exceptional ergonomics with the KRG chassis.

2 stage HACT Trigger is nice and crisp and is improved with the clipped spring mod.

Although they function perfectly, the stamped steel bolt stop and safety lever are kind of cheesy.

The only issue I ever experienced was getting the rifle to feed reluably when it was new. 15 spent minutes adjusting the mounting in the chassis and flaring the feed lips of my magazine resolved the issue.

AICS magazines can be used in other platforms when you choose to upgrade later.

TIKKA CTR
I have never ever had any reliability, function or feeding issues.

the Fit and finish and machining on the Tikka are on a higher level.

The stock single stage Tikka trigger is awesomely crisp and a $10 spring swap lightens the pull further if that’s what you want.

The Tikka bolt manipulation is smoother. I’ve shot my tikka alongside a buddy’s Defiance actioned custom and I hate to say it but my. Bolt feels smoother (in all fairness he cerakoated his bolt which probably had an adverse effect).

I like the CTR magazines better but they are proprietary and expensive.

Once I Swapped from the composite CTR stock to the Manners stock and bedded it, the feel was so solid accuracy improved and felt like a much higher end rifle.

You have plenty aftermarket options to utilize AICS mags for the tikka platform if that’s what you want.

I’d say the tikka is more accurate too but I’m not the best marksman so my advice is worth what it cost you.

 

[Jack Master]

Here is my 2 cents.

As a beginner shooter you only need a rifle that will out shoot your skills. From a accuracy standpoint I would rank these 3 from least to best as rpr, tikka, apo and each of these will likely be more accurate than you can shoot them. Why buy an expensive rifle that will shoot 1/4" groups (apo) when the shooter might not be able to shoot a 1" group? I suggest saving $ and getting a rifle that will shoot 1/2" or 3/8" and upgrade the rifle after you can consistently shoot groups that small.

That said, we want to think about what will help you the most as a shooter to become more accurate, confident, and build proper shooting skills. I truly believe the scope and bipod can make a big difference in a shooter`s ability before the rifle will. Getting a scope that is 100% reliable will bring more confidence to you shooting. Getting a better bipod can do the same and help build better skills and form. Getting a good rear bag that fits you well can make a huge difference. So if we want better glass bipod and asseccories we need to choose the less expensive rifle. Ranking theses 3 rifles from least to most expensive is rpr, Tikka, apo. The best part is, if you bet a less exspensive rifle and upgrade latter these really good features move up with you and your shooting will only get better since you know your scope, how your bipod likes to be loaded etc...

So here are your options that I see trying to stick to your budget.
1. Lowest accuracy with best glass and bipod.
Rpr $1000. Razor gen 2 $2000, Harris bipod <-- upgrade the bipod when you can or stretch your budget for an atlas.
2. Good accuracy with quality glass
Tikka ctr in KRG bravo chassis $1300. Vortex viper post gen 2 $1000. Atlas bipod $400. This leaves room for better rings, krg accesories, better glass.... If you go this route get a 24" barrel because the Tikka are known to be slow.
3. Best accuracy with low quality glass and bipod.
Apo $2000. Vortex strike eagle or athlon midas tac $700. Harris bipod.

Rpr note. Pay attention to how the hand guard is attached to the rifle and how loading a bipod can effect the torque of the handgaurd to the rifle action right where the barrelm is also attached. I'm not a fan.

I personally chose option 2 above. The ctr out shoots me. I put it in a krg bravo and got thier arca rail for it. I got the best glass I could to be confident when I dial 8.6 mils to shoot 1000yds that it's going to work(vortex amg). I also went full regard on the bipod and went to the ckye pod. Now once I upgrade the rifle, my scope and bipod come with me but while they are on this rifle I have 100% confidence in them and still know the rifle its self out shoots me.

I got lucky last weekend and shot this group.


Just my 2 cents.

Don't forget about rings, magazines, muzzle break, ammo and professional instruction with your budgeting.

 

[Missimer]

I can get a NIB Tikka T3 T3x Tac A1 for $1500.00. Is that something I should jump on?

 

[Missimer]

Thank you everyone again for helping me choose. It’s funny how different things sway you! This video sealed the deal for me as I ordered the Tikka (Something I never thought I would do).

 

[mrtoyz]

Get the Tikka!

 

[MNhunter1]

Another vote for the Tikka. Tactical, Varmint, CTR, Tac, or any other offering to get you the action would be a great way to get into a budget friendly platform with plenty of room to grow.

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

Thank you everyone again for helping me choose. It’s funny how different things sway you! This video sealed the deal for me as I ordered the Tikka (Something I never thought I would do).

Solid choice, you will love it!