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Rifle Scopes Pls help a rookie finding "the best" scope to start with

Jayjay1

Jayjay1

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 30, 2018
920
467
#1
Hello guys,
I´m a German sport shooting enthusiast who wants to set up his first bolt action rig.
The rifle is set, but finding "the right scope" is like having a baby I guess.

I hope you will help me with your experience and wisdom to narrow it down as much as possible.

Here are the requests:

Launch pad will be a Tikka T3x CTR with a 20" barrel, probably in .308 Winchester (more unlikely in 6.5CM).
I will use it mainly for target shooting, seldom for hunting.
So it will be mostly used in daylight, sometimes in lowlight conditions.
Shooting distance will mostly be 100yds. (local club), sometimes 300yds. (range 100mls. away) and seldom above 300 up to 800(ish)yds.
Reticle should be FFP, fine crosshairs, illuminated and made for holdover and windage corrections ("christmas tree").
Reticle and clicks should be Mil/Mil.
Tube with 30mm or above and objective with 50mm or above.
Zoom from "low" 3x or max. 4x, up to "high" 18x or more.
Length as short and weight as light as wise and doable with this specs listed (rilfe will not only be shot from a rest or bipod).
My budget is round about 2.000$ (or a bit more if necessary for a better scope).

I hope my description makes sense to you and if anything is missing, please tell me.

Thanks for any help or info,
Jay
 
#2
With that budget range you have so many options open to you. First thing I will recommend is if you have the means to go look through some at a local shop to get a feel for what looks good for your eye. Quality glass is partially subjective. No one will dispute low light performance and fuzzy edges but clarity is biased and I have seen different folks swear by one brand over the other etc. So get a feel for what looks good to you first. Now what is not subjective is turret/tracking. Mechanical accuracy inside is a proven thing. So no matter how great the glass is, if your mechanicals are not repeatable and accurate then all you have is telescope that cost a pretty penny. Now that's been said here are some options based on personal experience and your criteria's:

Athlon Ares ETR
Athlon Cronus
Nightforce NXS
Nightforce SHV ( less expensive no zero stop saving more money for ammo to practice with)
Nikon FX1000 Black ( reticle may be a smidge thick at max)
Sightron SX3 ( I think that's the correct model....I only got to use it once but it impressed me and the tracking was pretty amazing)

There are many more than those above and I would even dare mention the new Athlon MIDAS TAC with the floating dot reticle....
Most of these are not 2K or higher and again what I have had good experience with but they are solid, quality built with repeatable tracking that have not disappointed. Glass quality is also very good to my eye and clear around the edges even at upper ranges of magnification. S&B's, Vortex Razors and the like are amazing from what I hear as well. Your biggest obstacle IMO is the size of the scope and you wanting it to be slightly smaller .
 
#4
Some of the scopes above are not ffp or do not come with christmas tree reticles. For short and light weight, leupold mk5, but not all reticles come with illumination. Not sure if their xmas tree reticles do or don't. Another good lighter weight scope would be bushnell lrtsi. I don't think either of those have 50mm or larger objectives...not sure why it matters. It may actually be difficult to find an optic that meets ALL your criteria. I would focus on your top two or three requirements and not worry so much about the rest. If compact and light weight are really important, you're limiting your options. If a tree reticle is really important, you're limiting your options. Everything is a trade off. It's not easy to find a scope that checks every box if you have very specific requirements for each feature. Good luck. Any scope you decide on in your price range should be pretty good. You probably won't be disappointed.
 
#6
bfglowkey said:
:

Athlon Ares ETR
Athlon Cronus
Nightforce NXS
Nightforce SHV ( less expensive no zero stop saving more money for ammo to practice with)
Nikon FX1000 Black ( reticle may be a smidge thick at max)
Sightron SX3 ( I think that's the correct model....I only got to use it once but it impressed me and the tracking was pretty amazing)
Click to expand...

Athlon, Delta and IOR were the first three brands which fit my requests, and are all brands I´ve never heard of (well, to be honest, from IOR I knew the name, but nothing else).
I was close to buy the IOR until I asked here in the forum and the answers were veeeery contradictory.

So Athlon and Delta (Stryker), how long are those on the market and how is their reputation?

Nightforce is wellknown and top notch I guess, but the older models are all SFP and the new NXS series starts with 2,5k Euro over here, what is close to 3k bucks.
The SHV would be in my price range, but doesn´t have the zoom range and the reticle.
I´m having a Hawke with a 14ish zoom and wanted to go bigger with this.

The Nikon FX1000 Black is not offered over here.
Nikon is having a "medium" reputation over here too, ok for the money but nothing special.
The same with the Sightron, ok, but not more, and I couldn´t find a model which fitted the specs so far.
 
#7
patriot07 said:
Vortex AMG fits the bill except for low-end magnification.
Click to expand...

That´s a really nice looking scope and fullfills all my specs.

But it is above my budget and man, is that thing heavy or not? :oops:
One of the heaviest scopes I´ve seen so far.

But I will keep that in mind for now.

Fullfilling my specs, me, without knowing how they compare:

Athlon Cronus https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-Optics-Riflescope-Illuminated-Reticle/dp/B01APT03R0
Delta Stryker https://www.optics-trade.eu/en/riflescopes/delta-optical-titanium-4-5-30x56-hd-ffp.html
IOR https://swfa.com/ior-4-28x50-recon-tactical-40mm-rifle-scope-8.html (which some members inhere warned me about because of poor rugidness, others recommended it. Price in Germany 1.8k Euro)
Vortex Razor https://www.gunbroker.com/item/781465935 (expensive, very heavy)

How would you rate them one at each other?
Any No-no´s?
Any other competitors?
 
#8
Jayjay1 are there any deals to be had on Schmidt Benders since they are basically made in your backyard compared to us? If there’s any price break for you that would be my vote. No one can dispute SB as a top contender in glass.
 
#9
The price politics of some manufacturers and big dealers are weird and not to understand in any way.

IOR for example is at about 65-70% street price over here, compared to the USA.

Those who I would call "Premium Manufacturers" coming from Europe, are all more expensive here than in the USA.
Zeiss, Kahles, Steiner, Schmidt & Bender,...
Does that make sense? Not for me though.

All of them are around or above 3k Euro, unfortunately.
 
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#10
That has to be maddening, something to consider. If you can wait till the end of the month for the “holiday” season to show up it may extend your buying power for the same amount of money.
 
#12
Over here us glutenous and materialistic Americans celebrate the birth of Jesus by having outrageous sales on non essential items. At least state side there can be some deals to be had on glass. Fucking ITAR regulations keep us from shipping deals on scopes across the pond. I guess they think Merkle is a terrorist ?. If I had it my way I’d trade you an American Scope deal for one of those gorgeous HK 36’s that are verboden here but alas...
 
#13
I would say the Delta for sure. The reticle is very well thought out. It is a LOW made optic. Very robust. Might be a tad heavy but if you are not lugging it around hunting, who cares about a few extra ounces. I don’t know much about service from Delta but I assume it would be ok on that side of the pond.
 
#14
@ Pappa:
Well, some over here think too that Merkel is a terrorist, hands down.

HK36?
Interesting!
I would sell my wife for a HK G8, but for the HK36?

Humm, well, I would....

Unfortunately we have no such deals over here in the crusaders nest, but Jesus is on the retreat anyway over here, what brings us back to "Mama Merkel".
 
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#16
This reticle from delta seems about perfect.

7B704673-6CCF-43CD-A532-10E6ABD1422A.png
 
#17
It doesn't really matter. Whatever you get, you will probably sell if its your first scope. They are like Lays Potato Chips, you can't try just one. LOL. What does an LRHS cost there? I am a big fan.
 
#18
Jayjay1 said:
Athlon, Delta and IOR were the first three brands which fit my requests, and are all brands I´ve never heard of (well, to be honest, from IOR I knew the name, but nothing else).
I was close to buy the IOR until I asked here in the forum and the answers were veeeery contradictory.

So Athlon and Delta (Stryker), how long are those on the market and how is their reputation?

Nightforce is wellknown and top notch I guess, but the older models are all SFP and the new NXS series starts with 2,5k Euro over here, what is close to 3k bucks.
The SHV would be in my price range, but doesn´t have the zoom range and the reticle.
I´m having a Hawke with a 14ish zoom and wanted to go bigger with this.

The Nikon FX1000 Black is not offered over here.
Nikon is having a "medium" reputation over here too, ok for the money but nothing special.
The same with the Sightron, ok, but not more, and I couldn´t find a model which fitted the specs so far.
Click to expand...
You can get them new for under $2k. Call Liberty Optics
 
#25
koshkin said:
If you are in Europe, I would go with Delta Stryker HD 4.5-30x56. I am really impressed with mine and it will be a good match to the CTR.

ILya
Click to expand...

Hey Ilya,
thanks for your experience.

For how long did you use the Delta (in terms of reliabelity or rugidness)?

Did you ever have the chance to compare it to the Cronus Athlon or the the IOR Recon?

Cheers,
Jay
 
Last edited:
#26
Just as a question, have you talked with any of the big scope vendors here like:

Mile High
EuroOptic
Liberty Optics
Camera land NY

to see if any of them are willing to do the export paperwork for you?
 
#30
supercorndogs said:
Which reticle do you like better? I think its 6 in 1 and half dozen in the other given the same price point.
Click to expand...

When all things are relatively equal I look to the warranty. Glass is an investment sometimes costing more than the rifle and more fragile. It’s some nice assurance to know you can wreck it, send it back, and be back in the game for the cost of shipping.
 
#31
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#34
Jayjay1 said:
Hello guys,
I´m a German sport shooting enthusiast who wants to set up his first bolt action rig.
The rifle is set, but finding "the right scope" is like having a baby I guess.

I hope you will help me with your experience and wisdom to narrow it down as much as possible.

Here are the requests:

Launch pad will be a Tikka T3x CTR with a 20" barrel, probably in .308 Winchester (more unlikely in 6.5CM).
I will use it mainly for target shooting, seldom for hunting.
So it will be mostly used in daylight, sometimes in lowlight conditions.
Shooting distance will mostly be 100yds. (local club), sometimes 300yds. (range 100mls. away) and seldom above 300 up to 800(ish)yds.
Reticle should be FFP, fine crosshairs, illuminated and made for holdover and windage corrections ("christmas tree").
Reticle and clicks should be Mil/Mil.
Tube with 30mm or above and objective with 50mm or above.
Zoom from "low" 3x or max. 4x, up to "high" 18x or more.
Length as short and weight as light as wise and doable with this specs listed (rilfe will not only be shot from a rest or bipod).
My budget is round about 2.000$ (or a bit more if necessary for a better scope).

I hope my description makes sense to you and if anything is missing, please tell me.

Thanks for any help or info,
Jay
Click to expand...


Jay-

I think you might want to compare the FOV numbers at low power rather than the power magnification.

Here is an example of what I mean:

5-25 PSTII 24' at 100y
4-14 SVH F1 25' at 100y both come in about 30oz

3-17 B17 is only 25' at 100

Were as a Burris XTRII FFP in 3-15 is a 36'

So maybe if you'd consider a SVH 4-14 the 5-25 PST is also worth looking at.. But if FOV is your thing the the Burris at the Sub 1K price point s hard to beat.. Unless you looking at a short 4-20 S&B :)
 
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#35
I haven't got much mess around time with my XTRII, but the glass looks way better than the two I got at the roll out. I think as Birddog has said, they were doing upgrades along the way. I only mention the glass and the glass alone because that was my only complaint with the first ones.
 
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#36
supercorndogs said:
I haven't got much mess around time with my XTRII, but the glass looks way better than the two I got at the roll out. I think as Birddog has said, they were doing upgrades along the way. I only mention the glass and the glass alone because that was my only complaint with the first ones.
Click to expand...

The glass was improved, but I do not think it was on all models. For example, the 4-20x50 seems to have gotten notably better, while 3-15x50 not so much.

ILya
 
#38
koshkin said:
The glass was improved, but I do not think it was on all models. For example, the 4-20x50 seems to have gotten notably better, while 3-15x50 not so much.

ILya
Click to expand...

I see. My originals were 3-15 and 4-20 8 mil, this one is a 5-25. I no its really picking at things, but I like the flat top on the new turret better than the kind of cone shaped top.

I was looking for your list of recommended scopes, but I couldn't find it. If you would point me to it, i would appreciate it.
 
#39
Welcome JayJay, not sure what prices you can get in Germany on some european glass, but any chance a Schmidt 3-20x50 might be in your price range over there, what about the Kahles K318i? In the likely event the Schmidt and Kahles are out of your price range then
koshkin said:
MSR reticle is fine if you dial for elevation. Personally, I prefer to use tree reticles, like Delta's LRD-1T.

There is no easy way to figure out which Gen of K624i it is aside from asking the current owner (that I am aware of).

ILya
Click to expand...
Regarding the previous generations I'm not sure, but the SKMR and SKMR3 were only available in Gen III, so if it has one of those reticles you're certain to have a Gen III
 
#40
supercorndogs said:
I see. My originals were 3-15 and 4-20 8 mil, this one is a 5-25. I no its really picking at things, but I like the flat top on the new turret better than the kind of cone shaped top.

I was looking for your list of recommended scopes, but I couldn't find it. If you would point me to it, i would appreciate it.
Click to expand...

http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=623

I update it toward the end of the year, usually, so it is due for a refresh.

ILya
 
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#41
TheGerman said:
Schmidt Bender or Hensoldt.

Why are you stuck on a scope from peasant land that was annexed in 1938?
Click to expand...

Because they are out of his price range. Besides, historically speaking, the master race still got squashed in the end and is likely to get squashed another time or two in the next few decades.

ILya
 
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#43
@TheGerman: Like ILya said, I don´t have the budget and also I´m not willing to pay 1000 bucks or more just for the name.
Would pay more for a better product though.

And just in case, we didn´t win that war....
 
Last edited:
#44
A few other things to consider, all pet peeves of mine, those would be mil line number markings next to the vertical crosshair which can obscure holdovers, parallax focus of more than 25Y, and lacking a zero stop.

Reticles with .2 mil hashes throughout are awesome!

It's a less expensive scope but I like the Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 and it meets my criteria. I use mine a lot, more than the S&B's lately, it's not a bad scope. I'm in the process of downgrading here and upgrading there to standardize to it.
 
#48
hello jay

if you are looking for a SB,you should contact PGM precision in France,
they have good price on these scopes,they currently sold the 5-25 PMII for 2500 e.
their sale manager is really efficient too!
 
#49
Earlier you mentioned you liked a Vortex reco but was more than your budget. Look at the Vortex Razor HD 5-20x 50. It's Gen 1. I own one and it fits most your requirements. I also own a Kahles K 624i (on my bolt gun) and kept my Razor (on my AR-10). Get the Vortex 35mm cantilever mount and your are in for under your 2K budget. FWIW, lg
 
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