POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

[VKC]

I shot my POF 6.5 Creedmoor with factory loaded 120gr AMAX and it kept jamming. I cleaned it before shooting, oiled the parts but not too much, and made sure that the magazine was all the way in. About every 8 to 10 shots, I got a jam. Failure to extract the spent brass, while partially loading the next round. I was using the POF provided magazine as well.

Any thoughts? Did I get a dud or is there a break-in period. I shot about 130 rounds and it did not improve.

 

[NYresq]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Is the extractor broken? Or maybe has a piece cracked off the edge that engages the rim? Or is the chamber too tight or just enough out of spec that its holding the brass?
look at you spent brass and throw a caliper on it to see if the chamber is in spec.

My guess would be a bad extractor or a bad chamber, both of which are easily fixed.

 

[mattsnuked]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

I'm sure a call to POF would yield better results.

 

[fastford]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

good luck getting help calling POF. Since Scott left its a crap shoot.....

my pof creedmoor did the EXACT same thing! Sent it back, they said it was fine. Got it back, dropped a heavy buffer into it and it has run good. not sure if they did something too it or the buffer fixed it. i shot it yesterday and put about 100 rounds through it without a hiccup. 1/2moa gun yesterday!

 

[user]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Replace the extractor spring with a BCM extractor spring & rubber insert, I'll bet the extraction problem goes away....

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Extra...%20%203pack.htm

$12.00

 

[phxfa]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

had the exact same thing happen to me on a POF upper, 5.56 9 incher and it had the upgraded extractor already installed.

 

[user]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

I'd try it as he is having extraction issues & make sure its the BCM spring and insert, not the standard blue or black insert. Good luck

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

The rifle is brand new from POF, so no parts should be worn out or broken. I examined the extractor and it looks fine. I tried shooting some loads with H4350 and with fasting burning powder it seems to extract more reliability.

I emailed and called POF and am waiting on a reply.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Just a thought, have you tried adjusting the gas block ? There are multiple settings and the other modes may help.

 

[NYresq]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

if its leaving the fired case in the chamber, its either an extractor problem (not enought tension or bad claw) or its a tight chamber or has a rough surface preventing a smooth extraction. Its not short stroking since he said he is getting double feeds which means the bolt is throwing far enough back to pick up the next round in the mag.

try anheavy duty extractor spring with the little defender rubber grommet and see if that cures it.

 

[daxromana]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Curious to see what resolves this issue. Hopefully POF steps up and takes care of this for you.

 

[user]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NYresq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if its leaving the fired case in the chamber, its either an extractor problem (not enought tension or bad claw) or its a tight chamber or has a rough surface preventing a smooth extraction. Its not short stroking since he said he is getting double feeds which means the bolt is throwing far enough back to pick up the next round in the mag.

try anheavy duty extractor spring with the little defender rubber grommet and see if that cures it. </div></div>

+1

 

[desertHK]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattsnuked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure a call to POF would yield better results. </div></div>

1+. Also, I find that the Mapul mags yield better feeding.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

The chamber is smooth and not rough. Appears to feed single rounds fine and does not appear too tight. I'm thinking it is the extractor or the gas block, but we will see.

Curious, how do I adjust the gas piston block? On the front of the piston rod, mine has N and S, which I have North facing up, there is a little play but nothing that I can see to actually adjust or click. Thanks.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Is it worse with a full mag?

Is it leaving brass in the chamber or half way extracting it?

"I tried shooting some loads with H4350 and with fasting burning powder it seems to extract more reliability."

I assume you are reloading the rounds? If so, get some factory stuff and try your testing with that. If you still have issues, then you have a gun issue. If not, you have a reloading issue.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it worse with a full mag?

Is it leaving brass in the chamber or half way extracting it?

"I tried shooting some loads with H4350 and with fasting burning powder it seems to extract more reliability."

I assume you are reloading the rounds? If so, get some factory stuff and try your testing with that. If you still have issues, then you have a gun issue. If not, you have a reloading issue. </div></div>

It is not worse with full mag.

Half way or partially extracted brass.

I tried both factory ammo (Hornady 120gr AMAX) and loaded ammo, problems with both but appears to have more problems with factory ammo.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattsnuked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure a call to POF would yield better results. </div></div>

1+. Also, I find that the Mapul mags yield better feeding. </div></div>

Already using mapul mags.

 

[k2peaker]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

My guess is it's not getting enough gas with that particular load. While the carrier may be cycling far enough back to pick up the next round, it may still be short cycling from a timing perspective. If there isn't enough gas pressure to get optimal extraction portion of the cycle speed to get the fired case outta there completely before the top round pops up, these are the kind of jams you'll get.
As I'm tweaking in a comp AR and fine tuning loads, I see this quite a bit. Good reason to run an adjustable gas block so you have some control.

 

[desertHK]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

The N is for normal and S is for suppressed mode. Have you tried another <span style="font-style: italic">weight grains </span>of ammo perhaps. I had a little problem with feeding initially with my POF. My problem was my reload was a bit hot. They adjusted and it's working fine now. Before pulling your hair out on this, give POF a call. They will take care of your problem I am sure.

 

[Grump]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Another brand of ammo??? With 6.5 Creedmoor??? Maybe you can find some in a catalog somewhere, but I've never personally seen anything other than Hornady.

Not enough gas when the OP is describing failures to extract/eject AND double-feeds? Sounds like we already know how far back the carrier group is traveling...

Suggesting different mags when it's not a feeding problem being described? 'Splain to me how a magazine can affect EXTRACTION? I just don't get it.

My advice/suggestion is to look closely at the *cut* on the extractor, and how it fits the extractor rim. Not fully cut into the corner, so to speak, keeps the edge of the case from getting all the way "under" the extractor, leading to the extractor snapping off the case and continuing its rearward passage to cartridge pickup.

A bad angle of the face which should engage the front edge of the extractor rim can do the same thing.

Springs and o-rings can mask these problems, or make them less, or cause them only when really, really weak.

Read the rims of the failed-eject cases for clues, as well as the successful ones.

LOOK at the replacement extractor before putting it in. I've had two replacement parts (okay, electronic) in a row be defective out of the box.

The rest of you--thanks for making this site as amusing as barf.com!

 

[desertHK]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Sorry, I meant to say different grains, NOT brands. Will edit post.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another brand of ammo??? With 6.5 Creedmoor??? Maybe you can find some in a catalog somewhere, but I've never personally seen anything other than Hornady.

Not enough gas when the OP is describing failures to extract/eject AND double-feeds? Sounds like we already know how far back the carrier group is traveling...

Suggesting different mags when it's not a feeding problem being described? 'Splain to me how a magazine can affect EXTRACTION? I just don't get it.

My advice/suggestion is to look closely at the *cut* on the extractor, and how it fits the extractor rim. Not fully cut into the corner, so to speak, keeps the edge of the case from getting all the way "under" the extractor, leading to the extractor snapping off the case and continuing its rearward passage to cartridge pickup.

A bad angle of the face which should engage the front edge of the extractor rim can do the same thing.

Springs and o-rings can mask these problems, or make them less, or cause them only when really, really weak.

Read the rims of the failed-eject cases for clues, as well as the successful ones.

LOOK at the replacement extractor before putting it in. I've had two replacement parts (okay, electronic) in a row be defective out of the box.

The rest of you--thanks for making this site as amusing as barf.com! </div></div>

I did use Hornady factory ammo, 120gr AMAX refers to the bullet as there is also a 140gr AMAX and other bullets used.

The extractor cut appears good and fits under the rim.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

I tried different grains, and the hotter the load the more reliable it appears to extract. But I will have to confirm to with more loads as I wasn't specifically testing this.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Here is what I think could be the problem. I believe that since the 6.5 Creedmoor is a relatively new round, POF probably did testing with original Hornady factory ammo.

As I understand the original factory 120gr AMAX ammo was loaded with 43.5gr of H4350. The newer factory loads are with 40.3grs of Varget.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/09/hornady-tempers-load-on-65-creedmoor-ammunition/

I suspect that with the slower burning powder there isn't gas pressure to push the bolt back far or fast enough for a reliable extraction.

I'm awaiting a response from POF but suspect that is could a while with the holiday season.

 

[k2peaker]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

VKC: in response to your last response, I'm not surprised at all.

All semi-autos are timing sensitive. Getting the carrier to come back far enough is only one variable in the equation. Did it come back far enough when the fired case was fully extracted but not quite ejected? IMO, the set up of your rifle is on one end of the "window of reliable function" with the various loads that you are running. The higher pressure rounds are producing enough gas to cycle within the timing window, some obviously are not.
That's why we have adjustable gas ports on most competitive AR's out there. I routinely am adjusting gas pressure for various combinations of loads, buffer weights, buffer spring weights, carrier weights, suppressed vs. unsuppressed, etc. It's part of the weeks that I spend "tweaking in" a good, reliable competitive set up.
Your POF is a gas piston design, right? Per Lowlight's earlier suggestion you should have mutliple gas port pressure settings. Have you turned to a higher gas port setting? I know it sounds obvious so apologies in advance in asking.

 

[fastford]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

my 6.5 pof creedmoor did the same thing, the slash heavy buffer fixed it.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: k2peaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VKC: in response to your last response, I'm not surprised at all.

Despite Grump's esoteric (?) response, I still stand behind my distant diagnosis. All semi-autos are timing sensitive. Getting the carrier to come back far enough is only one variable in the equation. Did it come back far enough when the fired care was fully extracted? IMO, the set up of your rifle is on one end of the "window of reliable function" with the various loads that you are running. The higher pressure rounds are producing enough gas to cycle within the timing window, some obviously are not.
That's why we have adjustable gas ports on most competitive AR's out there. I routinely am adjusting gas pressure for various combinations of loads, buffer weights, buffer spring weights, carrier weights, suppressed vs. unsuppressed, etc. It's part of the weeks that I spend "tweaking in" a good, reliable competitive set up.
Joe barf.com </div></div>

It is difficult for me to know with certainty if the bolt came back far enough when the cartridge was extracted for obvious reasons of speed of bolt cycling and not being able to look from the side as I'm shooting.

Is there an adjustable gas port that will fit POF without any gunsmithing? If so, which would you recommend? Thanks.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my 6.5 pof creedmoor did the same thing, the slash heavy buffer fixed it. </div></div>

Was this something that you just tried or is there a reason you chose to do that and not the other options suggested above? Seem to me that a heavy buffer could help but may yield inconsistent results, but it could be just my ignorance.

What factory rounds did you shoot from your POF 6.5 Creedmoor, and what loads? Which ones gave you problems?

 

[fastford]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

i have shot 120's 140's factory and h4350 relaods all go fine now

 

[k2peaker]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

I didn't realize that your POF is a gas piston design so I modified my earlier thread.
And quickly looking at their owner's manual on-line, have you tried both the N and the S settings (as DesertHK posted)? N for Normal, S for Suppressed. My guess is that the S setting increases gas port pressure. The manual isn't super descriptive.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

I have not tried it in in suppressed mod. I'm not an expert on suppressors, but won't a suppressor increase chamber pressure. Thus if I set it on S for suppressed will that decrease chamber pressure and worsen my problem?

 

[phxfa]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

decrease, your correct

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

VKC,
If you don't hear from POF, please email me, I'll take care of your problem, i know POF just did their year end inventory but someone should have gotten back to you.

I will get this resolved for you if POF doesn't.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VKC,
If you don't hear from POF, please email me, I'll take care of your problem, i know POF just did their year end inventory but someone should have gotten back to you.

I will get this resolved for you if POF doesn't. </div></div>

Thanks for the offer, you are the man! I will give POF a little more time, and PM you as needed. Thank you.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Decreasing may not worsen the problem, as bolt timing is a little more complex-often the opposite of what you'd expect is happening.

I was at POF for a while (ah, the good old days) and still shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor for them, hopefully I can help.

vkc-here's what I'd do if I were you while you are waiting on John or Darrel to tell you to send it in:
-take a 308 chamber brush and put it on a length of cleaning rod and chuck it up in your drill. Put a dose of CLP or Butch's on the brush and powerscrub the chamber.
Often if the barrel has sat for a while before being used after the nitriding chemical "salts" will sweat and build up causing a sticky chamber (not you leaving it around, but production time, shipping, etc). Roto rootering will fix this most of the time (regular patch work may not-its a chemistry thing and the "salts" pretty much bind to the surface.

If not, try slow down the unlocking a little by either trying the suppressed setting-it may not cycle 100% but should let you know if the extraction is a timing pronblem, if it is, then try a heavier buffer like fastford has had good luck with.

The chamber's are 6.5CM standard stuff from reamers from "the guy" in the reamer trade, and they haven't produced enough 6.5CM rifles that the reamer would be undersized from overuse

Hope this helps brother, they kick ass when they are running-I'm digging mine alot!

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

sh*t brother, didn't notice you were already on top of it!!
You've got the easy answer too!

 

[mrad41]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Thought you might want to know that POF's website says they will be closed until the 2nd and that they will resume business on the 3rd. This may be why you have not received a reply.

 

[desertfox01]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

they always close for a week or two this time of year.....

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Decreasing may not worsen the problem, as bolt timing is a little more complex-often the opposite of what you'd expect is happening.

I was at POF for a while (ah, the good old days) and still shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor for them, hopefully I can help.

vkc-here's what I'd do if I were you while you are waiting on John or Darrel to tell you to send it in:
-take a 308 chamber brush and put it on a length of cleaning rod and chuck it up in your drill. Put a dose of CLP or Butch's on the brush and powerscrub the chamber.
Often if the barrel has sat for a while before being used after the nitriding chemical "salts" will sweat and build up causing a sticky chamber (not you leaving it around, but production time, shipping, etc). Roto rootering will fix this most of the time (regular patch work may not-its a chemistry thing and the "salts" pretty much bind to the surface.

If not, try slow down the unlocking a little by either trying the suppressed setting-it may not cycle 100% but should let you know if the extraction is a timing pronblem, if it is, then try a heavier buffer like fastford has had good luck with.

The chamber's are 6.5CM standard stuff from reamers from "the guy" in the reamer trade, and they haven't produced enough 6.5CM rifles that the reamer would be undersized from overuse

Hope this helps brother, they kick ass when they are running-I'm digging mine alot! </div></div>

Scott, I'm the one who PM'd you about your POF 6.5 Creedmoor thread on Sniper's Hide to purchase this rifle before I found out you weren't with POF anymore. Sounds like their lost.

Now that you mention it, the chemical salts problem is a possibility. I saw some residual on the piston assembly and cleaned it out before shooting and cleaned the bore before shooting but not the chamber since it was new. I did notice that on a few of the extraction problems, after I got the spent case out and fed a new round, the chamber had some sticking and a few times the chamber did not close fully. I thought it was because I did not pull back the charging handle enough, but the chemical salts problem is a possibility.

I'll try power cleaning the chamber as you described and also changing to suppressed mode to see it helps. Thanks.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrad41</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thought you might want to know that POF's website says they will be closed until the 2nd and that they will resume business on the 3rd. This may be why you have not received a reply. </div></div>

Thanks for letting me know, guess I'm forced to be patient, but on the other hand this will give so time to thinker.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

I'm Steve, but no biggie

Scott's the one that did the group buy and posted he'd take care of you if POF doesn't to your satisfaction, and I defer to his experience with the AR platform and knowledge.

The supressed mode may not run 100% bot it will let you "feel" if its a timing issue or a sticky chamber issue.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Sorry Steve, my bad. I saw a post from Scott above and was scrolling down, looked at the location of Arizona, saw your prior POF affiliation, and screwed up. Sorry again. Thanks for your help.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

No worries and good luck. I just had to post after reading soem of the stuff that folks post......

I know a thing or two, but Scott's definitely in the 2+ category.

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Steve and I will help wherever necessary even though neither of us gets paid by POF anymore, Frank is a good guy and has some great product. I'd be lying if I said they didn't have some problems, but this one seems like its an easy fix. Do what Steve said and let us know. Thanks and have a great new year.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

POF staff finally got back to me after multiple calls and emails. They want me to just send the upper back to them to look at and hopefully fix the problem. Doesn't make sense to me, as stated above it could be the buffer, but the just want the upper. I'll make another post once I get it back to see what the final verdict is. Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[MJPLEO]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Sir,

It should be a fairly quick turn around. I had to send a .308 upper in last year. From the time I sent it, it was back in my hands in six days running like it should. Give them a chance to make it right or at least help you find out what the problem may be.

Good luck,
Matt

 

[sdkidaho]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Interested to hear how your Customer Service experience went and if it got fixed.

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

So POF sent an UPS person to pick up my rifle and paid for shipping, which was really nice of them. But I got it returned because they said it was overweight. So here goes again, hopefully I have better luck in the future.

 

[Mr Flannel]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

My .02c but I've had this happen with DI ARs and whilst I agree about the sticky chamber, this sounds like a job for a heavy buffer weight and an oversize extractor spring plus an o-ring or d-fender to go with said spring, if the alternate gas settings don't change things.

Why? I'd bank money it's a gas timing issue. Case is rapidly expanding on firing and the lighter buffer is not retarding the bolt/carrier mvt/extraction process sufficiently - so the case wall is hard up against the chamber wall when extraction begins, rather than when the case has 'sprung back'. A rough or sticky chamber wall and/or tight chamber will compound this and the result is the extractor comes off (or rips off) the case rim early in the stroke. Plenty of gas continues to drive the bolt carrier rearwards far enough for it to pick up a new round on the return to battery and fuck-me, I've got a really shitty FTE/double feed problem...

 

[VKC]

Re: POF 6.5 Creedmoor jamming

Well, got my rifle back from POF and finally got an opportunity to go and shoot it. It shot great groups easily under 1 MOA, but unfortunately still jammed, but not as frequently.

I tried everything already mentioned previously in the thread, except for the heavy buffer.

For those we answered before and suggested a heavy buffer, which one and what weight do you suggest? Do I also need the modified spring?

Thanks.